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A GIANT Embarrassment

The Eagles are getting hammered by the Cardinals. Reprieve for another week.

TO BREAK A TIE WITHIN A DIVISION
If, at the end of the regular season, two or more clubs in the same division finish with identical won-lost-tied percentages, the following steps will be taken until a champion is determined.

Two Clubs
  1. Head-to-head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games between the clubs).
  2. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the division.
  3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games.
  4. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
  5. Strength of victory.
  6. Strength of schedule.
  7. Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.
  8. Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.
  9. Best net points in common games.
  10. Best net points in all games.
  11. Best net touchdowns in all games.
  12. Coin toss
http://www.nfl.com/standings/tiebreakingprocedures
 
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Yesterday was a complete embarrassment. Beckham deserves to be fined and suspended for 1 game. I am just waiting for this team to lose this week and put us all out of our misery.

Regardless of what a few seem to believe, the talent and coaching on this team is inadequate. It is time to clean house and rebuild.
 
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ESPN's Adam Schefter reports it is "likely" Odell Beckham is suspended one game for his actions during the Giants' Week 15 loss to the Panthers.
 
Piratz said:
TomD, you've been on Coughlin all season long, so who are you hiring as head coach since you want Coughlin out so badly and feel he's held the team back for years?

You must have someone in mind who's better and would have this roster winning immediately next year.
Click to expand...

Piratz,
You can stop asking me who I want to be the coach. I have not been one of those fans saying for 10 years fire Coughlin and bring in Bill Cowher as coach. And as I previously posted I never said Coughlin was not ever a good coach. But, it is clear he should not have been brought back for this season and the game has passed him by and today's player has passed him by. He has even gotten break after break with things like offsetting penalties and Beckham not being ejected yesterday and he still can't control a game situation or a player. And his situation has hampered the Giants from having a quality coaching staff for years now.

These teams go toe to toe with undefeated teams and are a coaching decision away from multiple victories. You can't compete like that with the ridiculous idea that the team is devoid of talent including only 2-3 players that even belong on an NFL roster.
 
It's probably time for a clean sweep. They've been trying to rebuild this thing for a few years now and I think there is blame to lay everywhere. I wouldn't split the baby here. I'd clean it all out if they're going to do anything. And if they're not, fine, that's their right, but then don't make it a series of one-year referendums like they've done the past few years.

For 8 seasons between 2005 through 2012 the team went 85-54 (.611), never had a losing season, made the playoffs 5 times and won 2 Super Bowls. In the 3 seasons since, they are 19-27 (.413) and on their way to their 3rd consecutive losing season.

So what happened? Tom Coughlin got old and forgot how to coach!??! It's not just the coach. It's the personnel department too. It's everyone.
 
TomD82 said:
These teams go toe to toe with undefeated teams and are a coaching decision away from multiple victories. You can't compete like that with the ridiculous idea that the team is devoid of talent including only 2-3 players that even belong on an NFL roster.
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Unless the talent is actually coached up...?

Since you feel Coughlin is holding them back, you should think about who wouldn't. Believe it or not, it could get worse.
 
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Piratz said:
Unless the talent is actually coached up...?

Since you feel Coughlin is holding them back, you should think about who wouldn't. Believe it or not, it could get worse.
Click to expand...

The argument applies both ways - either it is poor talent that is being coached up or it is a talented roster that is being held back by the coaching. There is no definitive answer, but myself, and many others, believe it is a combination of the two.

If you had to ask me which is the bigger issue, I will go with the talent. This team cannot stop anyone when the game is on the line. Is that because they're not in the right positions or is it because the players cannot execute their assignments? At the same time, Coughlin has mismanaged quite a few of these late game situations as well. Like I said earlier, it is a combination of the two.
 
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its haLL baLL said:
If you had to ask me which is the bigger issue, I will go with the talent. This team cannot stop anyone when the game is on the line. Is that because they're not in the right positions or is it because the players cannot execute their assignments? At the same time, Coughlin has mismanaged quite a few of these late game situations as well. Like I said earlier, it is a combination of the two.
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This is where I stand as well. I can see both sides, especially when looking at a team that's 6-8 but with a +15 point differential that took two undefeated teams to the brink. I did not like how the games in Dallas and against the Jets were managed, but I blame the players for not making winning plays in many games as well when they were there to be made. The defense never makes a winning play. Ever. They need Eli to control everything - points, clock, etc. - to win.

So you either clean house or keep at it, but make a decision. Another press conference talking about "win or else" does no good whatsoever. You either have faith they are close and will improve in the offseason or you don't. This endless carousel is tiring.

A fitting end to this sh-t show of a season would be to finish 8-8 and lose the division title on a tiebreak.
 
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Piratz said:
This is where I stand as well. I can see both sides, especially when looking at a team that's 6-8 but with a +15 point differential that took two undefeated teams to the brink. I did not like how the games in Dallas and against the Jets were managed, but I blame the players for not making winning plays in many games as well when they were there to be made. The defense never makes a winning play. Ever. They need Eli to control everything - points, clock, etc. - to win.

So you either clean house or keep at it, but make a decision. Another press conference talking about "win or else" does no good whatsoever. You either have faith they are close and will improve in the offseason or you don't. This endless carousel is tiring.

A fitting end to this sh-t show of a season would be to finish 8-8 and lose the division title on a tiebreak.
Click to expand...

This defense cannot stop anybody when it matters. When they are in position to stop someone, they drop the interception or miss the tackle. Have the Giants ever had a worse defense? I am in my mid 20's so I cannot go as far back as some other posters, but this is the worst that I can ever remember. Everyone watching that game knew that the Panthers were going to drive right down the field and win that game yesterday. Scheme and play calling can only cover up so much. I bet you could have won a lot of money playing Daily Fantasy this season simply by picking the QB, WR, and TE the Giants were facing week to week.

This is where I stand - you bring Coughlin back if you believe you have a team that can contend for a Super Bowl next year and he is a better coach than anyone available. You do not bring him back to oversee a rebuild or to coach another 8-8 team. Is this team talented enough to contend? No, which is why Coughlin should be gone after this year. I believe Reese should be gone as well, but it doesn't appear that the Giants will get rid of both during the same offseason.

One other thing - I am not playing Beckham this week regardless of if he is suspended by the league or the status of any appeal. What he did yesterday was an embarrassment to the organization, his teammates, the coaches, and the fans. He had absolutely no interest in helping the team win that game for 3 and a half quarters. It will never happen because of the player and the importance of the game, but sometimes you need to do what's right and not always what will give you the best chance to win.
 
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its haLL baLL said:
This defense cannot stop anybody when it matters. When they are in position to stop someone, they drop the interception or miss the tackle. Have the Giants ever had a worse defense? I am in my mid 20's so I cannot go as far back as some other posters, but this is the worst that I can ever remember. Everyone watching that game knew that the Panthers were going to drive right down the field and win that game yesterday. Scheme and play calling can only cover up so much. I bet you could have won a lot of money playing Daily Fantasy this season simply by picking the QB, WR, and TE the Giants were facing week to week.
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They've had a few bad defenses lately, but this passing defense is going to give up the most pass yards/game in the history of the NFL. You don't do that because of only the final 75 seconds of games. It's a fundamental flaw that is magnified when the pressure's on and the opposing offense have to drive late in games. They target the weak linebackers and safeties.

The Giants are 30th in net-yards/pass attempt because you have issues at every level. However, they've been decent against the run (18th in yards/attempt after finishing dead last last year):

1). Lack of Pass Rush: Got a bit better with JPP back, but he look at his limitations. Giants are dead last in the NFL in sack %.

2). Bad Cover LB's: Gambled on injury-prone players like Beason and Kennard. Got torched. Guys like Unga and Casillas are repeatedly targeted in coverage and beaten like drums. Go back and look at the film at how Unga was beaten on that last drive in Dallas. Or Casillas against the Patriots and Saints. Or Unga again yesterday. It's embarrassing for them, I'm sure. Brinkely and Thomas are run-stopping LB's.

3). Bad Safeties: This was a problem in the offseason. Now you're starting guys who were already cut this year like Dahl, Taylor, and Meriweather before them. Really bad. Watch Dahl get torched by Jordan Reed in Washington. Or Taylor blowing coverage against the Jets. The LB's have been, so they go with 3 safeties at times and these are the options.

It's about time the team starts making the LB position a priority in drafts. They haven't drafted one in 4 years (Jones and Williams in 2011)!! http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/draft.htm
 
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Piratz
Kennard was drafted as a LB in the fifth round of the 2014 draft. The debate will go on whether there's enough talent on this roster or not and the results to date are primarily a coaching problem or whether there is a serious lack of talent primarily on defense and it's the GM's fault . You know my view that it's time for both JR & TC to go.
 
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Whoops, totally overlooked Kennard because he's listed as a DE on that link (and the JPP of Tight Ends is listed as a LB! LMAOOO). Think Kennard dropped because of injury concerns, which of course has come to fruition.

My bad. That's 1 LB in the past 4 drafts at least.
 
If you can't cover with your safeties and LBs teams will tear you apart. Amukamara was playing great earlier in the year and he is just not the same. So the D had one strength and that was the two starting CBs but that is it and now we really have one good CB who can't catch by the way. Without a good pass rush, terrible covering LBs and safeties, teams just tear us apart in the middle of the field. Happens game after game. And yesterday they completely forgot about Cam a number of times and he rushed the ball 8 times for 100 yards to keep drives alive. The D is really bad. We have good defensive coaches that took us to the Super Bowl and they can't coach this talent up. They stop noone and everyone watching knew what was going to happen yesterday and it happened.

The problem is talent (mostly on the defensive side but also on the O line and at TE and WR too) but it's time for Coughlin to go too. Reese definitely needs to go. In the pass happy NFL how do you rely on has beens with injury histories to play LB and go into the season at the safety position like we did? Completely unacceptable.
 
On a related subject which is the conduct of ODB let me just say that I watched all of the Giant game and part of both other games yesterday and the conduct of far too many players getting "chippy" , jawing with each other and the cheap shots is getting out of hand and the league and the officiating crews better take control as its starting to escalate.ODB acted like a thug yesterday but so did far too many other players with little consequence. The league needs to send a clear message that there will be consequences for acting like a " thug" whether it be ODB, Dez Bryant , Harvey or anyone else. Listening to the post game show Jimmy Johnson said it well. He said that ODB deserved to be thrown out but the refs are reluctant to throw out a team's star player . Well maybe if they got thrown out all this crap would not find us where we are today.
 
Piratz said:
Whoops, totally overlooked Kennard because he's listed as a DE on that link (and the JPP of Tight Ends is listed as a LB! LMAOOO). Think Kennard dropped because of injury concerns, which of course has come to fruition.

My bad. That's 1 LB in the past 4 drafts at least.
Click to expand...

Of course when you use the second of your two fifth round picks the 179th overall pick ( the first was safety Nat Behre) you're not placing a high value on the linebacking position which appears to be a Reese drafting philosophy.
 
Neither Coughlin or Eli defended OBJ's actions yesterday. Coughlin called them wrong and there's no place for it. Eli said he needs to learn to control his emotions.
 
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OT - until they fire the joke of a coach and GM, threads like this will continue ad nauseum. At least NY has the Mets. Who Whudder thunk they would become NY's team other than Snake Tom. Looking forward to the rematch next year if the Mets can get there..
 
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Since we're talking FB and classless. Let's add this gem.


Snoop Dogg to Eagles coach Chip Kelly: ‘Kill yourself’

untitled-1.jpg

Rapper Snoop Dogg has a bone to pick with Chip Kelly, who cost him a win in fantasy football.

Snoop Dogg didn't mince words during a Sunday rant, calling out Eagles coach Chip Kelly as his fantasy football team suffered.

"Chip Kelly, kill yourself, you dumba-- coach," the rapper said while spewing hate for Philadelphia's football team on Instagram. "You sorry as f--k."

Snoop was playing a team in fantasy that had the Cardinals' defense, which gave his opponent at least 18 points as the Eagles lost, 40-17.

In a long-winded scathing, expletive-filled rip of Kelly, a "pissed off" Snoop — while wearing a shower cap — said the coach needs to be "dropped down to little league football" and added that the "sorry a--" Eagles "can't even get me one or two points so I can win my fantasy league and go to the Super Bowl."

"I feel for you, Philadelphia fans," he said.

Kelly, who’s coached the Eagles since 2013, and his team (6-8) sit behind Washington in the lowly NFC East.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/snoop-dogg-eagles-coach-chip-kelly-kill-article-1.2472918
 
This is the new NFL. Total chaos. Where the heck is the law and order? The coaches whiffed, but how about the guys paid to watch exactly this kind of BS? Unreal.
 
Rodger Goodell may be doing a competent job in terms of revenue generation and enhancement that makes the owners happy with him but on so many other issues he's doing a really poor job. The officiating is getting worse, plays are being missed, there is little consistentcy in making calls, there is too much chippyness and cheap shots that go on with little consequences and too often the officials don't have control of the game and yet the Commissioner has gone into stealth mode after the deflategate and Ray Rice debacles . There are numerous issues that remain unresolved from how to deal with domestic violence , to define when is a catch a catch, to how to prevent injuries caused deliberately and more and when was the last public sighting of Goodell , probably at the Draft?
 
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The bat is part of their ritual. Walking it to the Giants sideline and carrying on that they'd beat OBJ's ass in is not.

Have to let this play out. Doesn't excuse OBJ, but it's more than just OBJ.
 
Anyone who brings a bat to a football game should be suspended. It's like bringing a gun to a knife fight. ;)
 
As he should be. His actions were completely out of control and he should've just let his play do the talking. He'll learn that. I hope.

The Panthers tried all kinds of intimidation tactics to get under his skin and rattle him. It worked. He needs to learn from this. He plays one 3-hour game per week. It shouldn't be hard to stay under control in the future if he makes it an emphasis.

The NFL needs to do something with what the Panthers were pulling too. This league is becoming ridiculous. Clean it up.
 
It's not just the NFL that is becoming ridiculous. People across every sport at every level act like clowns. And it's a real turnoff. I find myself watching less and less of pretty much everything. Haven't watched an NBA game in years. Used to watch every single college football and NFL game that was on, now I skip pretty much all the weeknight ones and only watch Saturday/Sunday. Even then I'm not nearly as into it as I used to be and am barely even paying attention half the time. Haven't watched a single college basketball game this season, probably won't until March. Don't miss it. Don't care. I've reached the grumpy old man portion of my life I guess.
 
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In this new era where anyone can be a superstar almost immediately, and for all the wrong reasons, it's skews the entire experience. There's no more maturation and learning how to be a professional first.

That's what was most disappointing about Sunday's game with Tom Coughlin. He had gone to great lengths to bridge accountability with the new era and it alluded him on Sunday. A good read: http://www.bigblueview.com/2015/12/...ction-josh-norman-carolina-panthers-john-mara
 
Piratz said:
In this new era where anyone can be a superstar almost immediately, and for all the wrong reasons, it's skews the entire experience. There's no more maturation and learning how to be a professional first.

That's what was most disappointing about Sunday's game with Tom Coughlin. He had gone to great lengths to bridge accountability with the new era and it alluded him on Sunday. A good read: http://www.bigblueview.com/2015/12/...ction-josh-norman-carolina-panthers-john-mara
Click to expand...

That article shows how much Coughlin has lost it. He didn't know one of the PFs was on Beckham when they announce who penalties are on? Reports also were that since another PF penalty was only 2 yards due to half the distance to the goal he wasn't that upset with it. He talked to Moore repeatedly but never said anything to Beckham? You can't sit on your helmet in practice and have to be 5 minutes early to team meetings or you get fined, but Beckham had to learn from his actions during the game.

Mara can hire a coach and then a GM. Does that sound familiar.? Does Iona college play football?
 
I understand the argument being made about inconsistent discipline. However, while it appears that way here, there may be another issue that trumps it: Winning. Professional players want to win. Every single person in that locker room knows they need Beckham on the field to comeback against the Panthers.

So does that triumph over the lawlessness that could emerge from inconsistent discipline?
 
That Graziano post (he's also formerly of the Star Ledger) is a really good read.
 
Section112 said:
Heres another take on it from ESPN. http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york-gi...recedented-type-of-challenge-for-tom-coughlin

Oh yeah and TomD they say that Coughlin has been challenged with the weakest roster since he has been the coach - just sayin...;)
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Please with the weakest roster and no talent stuff. When Rodgers Cromartie does not make a play he has no talent. When he does take an INT for a TD he has talent. When he made the block of the FG on Sunday that would have iced the game at that point did he have talent? As you said we are just sayin.
 
No argument that Rodgers-Cromartie is our best corner. Not the best on run support but our best cover guy. He did drop that potential pick 6 though and that would have been a huge play for that game. Giants roster has just not made the big plays this year and the D has little or no talent except for our corners.
 
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