A GIANT Embarrassment

[Piratz]

Why would anyone trade Eli and OBJ? It's a special combo. You want to get on this QB carousel too? You build around those two and hope to have a playoff contender for a few years of window here. Otherwise sign yourself up for another multi-year rebuild on top of the past 4 seasons.

The offense gets one dimensional with those two at times, but I'll take it. There are also plenty of game where he's hitting multiple players. The young linemen Reese waited too long to draft for the rebuild are good players. Get another lineman in here for a running game with a competent WR and you're set. The offense is not the problem. Eli likes it and has had the best two statistical seasons of his career. With Eli's cap hit and talent, you have to maximize his system.

OBJ is a game changer and could be the best player since LT. That's the nucleus for the next 3-4 years until Eli is done. Keep it.

The defense is what has cost them the season this year. Yes there were poor coaching decisions and poor offensive play (4-minute offense), but it's a team sport and the defense couldn't do a damn thing to win a game or pick up the others. That has been the BIGGEST issue since the last SB. The personnel aged out and was never adequately replaced, especially the pass rush and safeties.

Defensive Rankings (yards/play)
2012 = 31st of 32; team went 9-7 and missed playoofs
2013 = 5th of 32; team went 7-9 and missed playoffs (had Beason and Hill up the middle)
2014 = 30th of 32; team went 6-10 and missed playoffs
2015 = 31st of 32; team is 6-8 and missed playoffs

So 3 of the past 4 seasons it's one of the worst in the league. And they changed coordinators. At least the change of offensive coordinator had results. This is personnel. If you're firing Coughlin, you fire Reese.

Maybe Tom announces he'll retire and can have a hero's send off next week. Carry him off the field. The guy had a really impressive run here.

 

[bd98]

Giants actually have something to play for next week! Loser of the game vs. Eagles has to go to London next year to play the Rams.

 

[Piratz]

Man, Coughlin looks spent. Guy has been a champion coach, but these things rarely end well.

Loved the question about talent which he refused to answer.

 

[Vegas pj]

Still Love my former team (Giants), especially when I had the Vikings at -51/2 to complete a 5 teamer parlay card. Fortunately, I split a 10 teamer into two 5s. The Packers at +41/2 let me down on that card. Never liked the Packers, but still love the Giants. Now if they would only do the right thing and fire the front office & coach, maybe they'd return to the glory days. Pretty sad when they can't win that division this year. Even my Chiefs were able to turn it around under Andy Reid no less.

 

[its haLL baLL]

Well, if last night wasn't a clear indication of just how bad this team is, I don't know what is. You take away Beckham and our top WRs are a bust (Randle), a has-been (Nicks), and a special teamer (Harris). Our defense is putrid. Just a flawed roster all around.

The coaching is equally bad. It took them 13 weeks to realize that the 4-headed monster (LOL!) at RB wasn't working? Jennings has gone over 100 yards in the last 3 games after becoming the lead back. Why did it take 3 quarters of the season to give that a try?

This has been one of the least enjoyable seasons I've ever had rooting for any team, outside of a few of the SHU embarrassments, but at least those I found myself engaged in. Even with every win this year - we all knew the team wasn't very good and this ending was the likely outcome. The QBs they beat this season - Cousins, Taylor, Kaepernick, Cassel, Winston, and Tannehill. Same crap the two seasons prior - they only beat backups and the bottom tier QBs.

Plain and simple - they STINK!

 

[hallgrad80]

The greatest weapon each defense had that played against was Giant tackle Newhouse , the man who never made a block. But , more seriously how could John Mara and Steve Tisch not see how void of talent on both sides of the ball this team is and have the architects who built that roster , Reese and Ross , come back and think they could rebuild it.

 

[its haLL baLL]

Slow day at the office. These are the QBs the Giants have beat over the past 3 seasons:

• Kirk Cousins (2014, 2015)
• Tyrod Taylor (2015)
• Colin Kaepernick (2015)
• Matt Cassel (2015)
• Jameis Winston (2015)
• Ryan Tannehill (2015)
• Ryan Fitzpatrick (2014)
• Matt Ryan (2014)
• Zach Mettenberger (2014)
• Colt McCoy (2014)
• Shaun Hill (2014)
• Josh Freeman (2013)
• Michael Vick (2013)
• Terrell Pryor (2013)
• Scott Tolzien (2013)
• RG3 (2013)
• Matt Stafford (2013)

Of those QBs, the only teams to finish the season with a winning record are Tolzien (2013 Packers 8-7-1 [filled in for two games after Rodgers got hurt]), Vick (2013 Eagles 10-6), Fitzpatrick (2014 Texans 9-7), and possibly Cousins (2015 Redskins 8-7).

Pathetic!

 

[Piratz]

I'm hoping there's something mentioned this week about Coughlin retiring and Sunday being his farewell. He looks and sounds like a man that's retiring.

Coughlin has delivered 2 of the franchise's 4 Lombardi trophies and did restore "New York Giant Pride" with an outstanding run of excellence. Again, once he got his program up and running he had an impressive 8-season run which included greater than a .600 winning percentage, 5 playoff appearances, 3 NFC East titles, and 2 Super Bowl titles without a losing season (2005 through 2012). I'd prefer not to see him bashed like a pinata. The fans are already frustrated and they're going to treat him like Ray Handley if this continues. Ravenous.

The reason the team is in the midst of its first 3-season losing stretch in 35+ years goes well beyond the coaching. This has been a terrible rebuild after the core group from the prime years mentioned above moved on. It'll be the next guy's problem to figure out this personnel mess, especially on the defensive side.

 

[Piratz]

Well, if last night wasn't a clear indication of just how bad this team is, I don't know what is. You take away Beckham and our top WRs are a bust (Randle), a has-been (Nicks), and a special teamer (Harris). Our defense is putrid. Just a flawed roster all around.

The coaching is equally bad. It took them 13 weeks to realize that the 4-headed monster (LOL!) at RB wasn't working? Jennings has gone over 100 yards in the last 3 games after becoming the lead back. Why did it take 3 quarters of the season to give that a try?

This has been one of the least enjoyable seasons I've ever had rooting for any team, outside of a few of the SHU embarrassments, but at least those I found myself engaged in. Even with every win this year - we all knew the team wasn't very good and this ending was the likely outcome. The QBs they beat this season - Cousins, Taylor, Kaepernick, Cassel, Winston, and Tannehill. Same crap the two seasons prior - they only beat backups and the bottom tier QBs.

Plain and simple - they STINK!

This may've been the most taxing season I can remember too. I don't like the way the team was managed in spots, particularly against Dallas and the Jets in terms of game management. The RB rotation strategy and entire running game approach on short yardage defied logic. Especially in that decisive game in Washington where they had a hot start running and abandoned it way early.

Aside from the games I mentioned, I blame the other heartbreakers squarely on the fact that the defensive personnel in the back-7 is really bad and needs to be totally rebuilt, which I think it will be. Time and time again they were in position to make plays but didn't because they stink. Players like Dahl, Cooper, Meriweather, Casillas, and Unga were beaten like freaking drums. It was bad.

 

[Piratz]

The greatest weapon each defense had that played against was Giant tackle Newhouse , the man who never made a block. But , more seriously how could John Mara and Steve Tisch not see how void of talent on both sides of the ball this team is and have the architects who built that roster , Reese and Ross , come back and think they could rebuild it.

I think you'll see changes there as well. They're not just going to let Tom Coughlin be the only scapegoat.

Jerry Reese may not be fired - altough I'm not so sure about that as reporters' reliance on how Wellington Mara was running the organization and "they don't fire GM's" is not a good indicator of John Mara - but his group will be changed.

 

[its haLL baLL]

http://nypost.com/2015/12/28/giants-dreadful-day-without-beckham-is-telling-of-jerry-reese/

 

[Piratz]

Those receivers were TERRIBLE last night. Looked like Amateur Hour. Zero separation and the Vikings just teeing off.

The passing game reminded me of when they tried to play without Plaxico Burress. Team was 11-1 and went 1-4 thereafter, including playoffs. Only game won was one when they ran for 300 yards, LOL. Entire offense changed without having to account for him.

 

[its haLL baLL]

 

[TomD82]

I think you'll see changes there as well. They're not just going to let Tom Coughlin be the only scapegoat.

Jerry Reese may not be fired - altough I'm not so sure about that as reporters' reliance on how Wellington Mara was running the organization and "they don't fire GM's" is not a good indicator of John Mara - but his group will be changed.

Mara should either completely get out of the way or step up and be Jerry Jones like he seems to want to be. He has been something in between like Woody Johnson keeping Rex Ryan for an extra year and then hiring a stupid GM for a year after letting MT go. Mara has all the calls on the FA and his brother seem to be the one determing the price for them. Like the line from Boardwalk Empire "you can't be half a ganster Nuck". Every GM should be allowed to hire the coach.

If this team was 9-7 like they should be most people would be saying just be in the playoffs anything can happen. Be in it to win in, Eli can get hot etc. It is going to be interesting to see if there any other front office changes. Chris Mara should be included if there is.

 

[Piratz]

Last night was bad, but we've seen this movie before.

They lost the final two games in 2009 by scores of 41-9 and 44-7.
They went into Green Bay the game after the DeSean Jackson Game in 2010 and lost 45-17.
They went into Atlanta and Baltimore in 2012 at 8-5 and lost 34-0 and 33-14.

it happens. For the most part I thought the coaching staff did a good job this year. They had this group in position to win a lot of games. Didn't happen. Some bad decision making, some atrocious execution by bad players.

 

[Piratz]

Mara should either completely get out of the way or step up and be Jerry Jones like he seems to want to be. He has been something in between like Woody Johnson keeping Rex Ryan for an extra year and then hiring a stupid GM for a year after letting MT go. Mara has all the calls on the FA and his brother seem to be the one determing the price for them. Like the line from Boardwalk Empire "you can't be half a ganster Nuck". Every GM should be allowed to hire the coach.

If this team was 9-7 like they should be most people would be saying just be in the playoffs anything can happen. Be in it to win in, Eli can get hot etc. It is going to be interesting to see if there any other front office changes. Chris Mara should be included if there is.

I don't know about the inner workings of the organization to say that about Mara. I don't think he's that meddlesome in the personnel department, but that's just my opinion. Are you sure Reese isn't a Coughlin supporter?

But on your other point, that's the nature of the NFL though. You only play 16 games and there are a ton of close games, so every game or two that goes the wrong way skews everything. That's why you wait for the season to play out. Look at the Chiefs. Buried at 1-5. Look at the Steelers, glorified and then they lose to a 4-10 team and now are likely out.

You are what you are and this is a bad team. Again. They should all be held accountable.

 

[TomD82]

Last night was bad, but we've seen this movie before.

They lost the final two games in 2009 by scores of 41-9 and 44-7.
They went into Green Bay the game after the DeSean Jackson Game in 2010 and lost 45-17.
They went into Atlanta and Baltimore in 2012 at 8-5 and lost 34-0 and 33-14.

it happens. For the most part I thought the coaching staff did a good job this year. They had this group in position to win a lot of games. Didn't happen. Some bad decision making, some atrocious execution by bad players.

Your first sentence was spot on. We have seen this movie plenty of times so once again when Coughlin in his presser last night says I didn't see this coming I don't know what he is talking about. Pittsburgh losing to a bitter rival who wants to be a spoiler, in a close game is a lot different than the games you describe above when the playoffs are suppossed to be all in front of them.

As far as Mara, if he says after the end of the season again that Coughlin is coming back and he if didn't think he could win with Tom, it wouldn't matter how many Super Bowls he won than something is wrong even more. It is going to be interesting to see if the organization completely blows up its player personnel systems and tries to rebuild around 2-4 players.

What is even more bizzard is posters here think some team is going to give you 5 draft picks including 3 #1s for a 35 yr old QB. Talk about living in the 80s-90s. Carson Palmer and Drew Bledsoe each brought back one #1 pick. Brett Favre got told to retire or get waived than brought back a #2. But, hey Nassib has sat behind Eli for 3 yrs now and after that last drive last night maybe he is the next Aaron Rodgers. And as far as not moving up to get players in the draft how did the Giants get Eli, Shockey, Collins and even Ernie moving up to get Moss (albeit a bust)? Who should they have moved up to get Andrew Luck or Robert Griffin? Maybe Reese should have been like Mike Dikta and moved up to get Ricky Williams.

 

[Piratz]

Coughlin looks shot. That's what's different this time. This has been the most torturous season I can remember and if there's anything that will knock a coach into retirement (by his choice) it's losing games like this year. At some point you'd figure there's a conversation between him and his wife and you wonder when enough becomes enough. Maybe he retires. Maybe he takes a consultant job. Maybe he coaches again, who knows.

The ending may be awkward and fans disgruntled over the losing, but that will fade fast when he returns to the stadium and everyone remembers him for what he should be remembered for, which are the two championships. Some fans act like are easy to get or are somehow taken for granted.

The most important thing is really who the next hires come to be. The Giants are going to have a good draft position again and workable cap space. The incoming leadership will have a lot to work with in terms of reworking the roster. But at the same time you don't want this to become more years of losing, and if you're not smart about it, that's what could very well happen because that kind of opportunity to reshape a roster could be dangerous in incompetent hands, LOL!

 

[hallgrad80]

To demonstrate just have bad the Giants drafts have been , there are 4 players drafted in the. First or Second round that are listed as candidates to be let go to increase cap space or just haven't got the job done.

Beatty 2nd rd. - 2009 draft . No other draft picks on roster.

JPP 1st rd. - 2010 draft. No other draft pick on roster.

Prince 1st rd - 2011 draft. No other draft picks on roster.

Randle 2nd rd - 2012 draft. Brandon Mosley 4th rd and Markus Kuhn 7th rd. remain on roster. Mosley has started one game in his 4 years.

 

[Piratz]

It's more than just coaching when you've reaching sustained levels of ineptitude that the organization hasn't experienced in 35+ years, immediately following one of the best runs you've had in in the organization's history.

The explanation for the drop-off reveals that. But does John Mara have the stomach to clean house?

 

[hallgrad80]

Your first sentence was spot on. We have seen this movie plenty of times so once again when Coughlin in his presser last night says I didn't see this coming I don't know what he is talking about. Pittsburgh losing to a bitter rival who wants to be a spoiler, in a close game is a lot different than the games you describe above when the playoffs are suppossed to be all in front of them.

As far as Mara, if he says after the end of the season again that Coughlin is coming back and he if didn't think he could win with Tom, it wouldn't matter how many Super Bowls he won than something is wrong even more. It is going to be interesting to see if the organization completely blows up its player personnel systems and tries to rebuild around 2-4 players.

What is even more bizzard is posters here think some team is going to give you 5 draft picks including 3 #1s for a 35 yr old QB. Talk about living in the 80s-90s. Carson Palmer and Drew Bledsoe each brought back one #1 pick. Brett Favre got told to retire or get waived than brought back a #2. But, hey Nassib has sat behind Eli for 3 yrs now and after that last drive last night maybe he is the next Aaron Rodgers. And as far as not moving up to get players in the draft how did the Giants get Eli, Shockey, Collins and even Ernie moving up to get Moss (albeit a bust)? Who should they have moved up to get Andrew Luck or Robert Griffin? Maybe Reese should have been like Mike Dikta and moved up to get Ricky Williams.

Both Eli and Shockey were drafted by Accorsi not Reese.

 

[Piratz]

Wasn't Landon Collins (2015) the first player the Giants have traded up to draft since Eli Manning (2004)?

 

[mjs428]

As much as I want Coughlin out of here, I really don't want a new OC. McAdoo has been solid plus I don't want Eli learning a new system

 

[Piratz]

As much as I want Coughlin out of here, I really don't want a new OC. McAdoo has been solid plus I don't want Eli learning a new system

I like the offense, too. Stability is a key to success. Now there's an opportunity to continuing to build the personnel around it.

It fits Eli like a glove. He's had the best two-year stretch of his career at 33 and 34 years old for a reason. It'll get better when you're not playing with half of an offensive line and have more professional targets for him. Plus they've already invested two years into it and McAdoo's development as a coordinator. Feels silly to give up on it now, but if there's a new coach maybe there's a way to keep it.

Or McAdoo becomes the coach.

 

[TomD82]

Coughlin looks shot. That's what's different this time. This has been the most torturous season I can remember and if there's anything that will knock a coach into retirement (by his choice) it's losing games like this year. At some point you'd figure there's a conversation between him and his wife and you wonder when enough becomes enough. Maybe he retires. Maybe he takes a consultant job. Maybe he coaches again, who knows.

The ending may be awkward and fans disgruntled over the losing, but that will fade fast when he returns to the stadium and everyone remembers him for what he should be remembered for, which are the two championships. Some fans act like are easy to get or are somehow taken for granted.

The most important thing is really who the next hires come to be. The Giants are going to have a good draft position again and workable cap space. The incoming leadership will have a lot to work with in terms of reworking the roster. But at the same time you don't want this to become more years of losing, and if you're not smart about it, that's what could very well happen because that kind of opportunity to reshape a roster could be dangerous in incompetent hands, LOL!

He is shot and in these press conferences he sounds like Rich Kotite. He does not want to retire, resign or whatever and if they were 9-7 or 8-8 with the division in hand he would want to come back. You can't build a proper staff with his age, his contract situation and good ACs not wanting to sign with uncertainity for their contracts. If this were college basketball guys here would be saying how this hurts the recruiting so much.

 

[TomD82]

To demonstrate just have bad the Giants drafts have been , there are 4 players drafted in the. First or Second round that are listed as candidates to be let go to increase cap space or just haven't got the job done.

Beatty 2nd rd. - 2009 draft . No other draft picks on roster.

JPP 1st rd. - 2010 draft. No other draft pick on roster.

Prince 1st rd - 2011 draft. No other draft picks on roster.

Randle 2nd rd - 2012 draft. Brandon Mosley 4th rd and Markus Kuhn 7th rd. remain on roster. Mosley has started one game in his 4 years.

Were Linval Joseph and David Wilson bad draft picks? If a draft pick gets says his neck or knee blown out after good seasons and is no longer on the roster is that the GMs fault and also counts as a bad draft choice?

 

[Section112]

The announcers last night and last week were certainly not mincing words when speaking about the Giants roster. They said a few times that the talent needs to improve significantly. The Giants have always been about building a team through the draft and Reese et all have simply not gotten it done. I feel bad for Coughlin. While he certainly screwed up the game management in at least two games, the talent is just not there. That is why the whole thing needs to be blown up with possibly keeping McAdoo if he will stay for the new head coach. Maybe there is a good HC candidate that he is familiar with? I just don't think he is ready to be the HC yet but again its hard to judge with the current talent level on the team. Last night was sad.

 

[Piratz]

I'd love to read a tell-all about what's been going on behind the scenes. I'm sure there's some drama if only because every freaking season we have a coaching referendum and there's always a seismic disconnect between when the media spews and what actually happens. That's been one of the major story lines of the Coughlin Era.

Anyway, if I were a betting man, I'd say Coughlin is finished on his own accord. Reese stays. I have no idea if Reese will know what he is doing with the next coaching decision nor how much it'd be left up to him anyway. He's certainly never done this before.

 

[its haLL baLL]

If the Packers flame out early in the playoffs and move on from McCarthy, do you give him a look if you're the Giants?

I like the Giants offensive system but don't love McAdoo. McCarthy would be a way to keep the system, bring in a Super Bowl winning coach, and start fresh.

 

[Piratz]

If the Packers flame out early in the playoffs and move on from McCarthy, do you give him a look if you're the Giants?

I like the Giants offensive system but don't love McAdoo. McCarthy would be a way to keep the system, bring in a Super Bowl winning coach, and start fresh.

In a heartbeat, but that's not happening.

 

[Section112]

Were Linval Joseph and David Wilson bad draft picks? If a draft pick gets says his neck or knee blown out after good seasons and is no longer on the roster is that the GMs fault and also counts as a bad draft choice?

Joseph was a good draft pick. He was picked in the 40's overall and 2nd round. He is a good run stopper but not much of a pass rusher and has never made the pro bowl. It was a good not great pick.

David Wilson was a bit of a reach in the first round in my opinion but was a decent draft pick that did not work out. He had a repuation of fumbling the ball and lived up to that in his first season. He was lightning fast but did not work out.

That is a first and second round draft pick that did not work out for Reese. Have to grade those two combined as no better than a C. Thems are the facts.

Anyone can make decent 1st and 2nd round picks. The best GMs are the ones that find solid value in rounds 3 and on and Reese has not done that.

 

[its haLL baLL]

In a heartbeat, but that's not happening.

You think he's safe regardless of how the season plays out? What if they lose next week to the Vikings and lose again the following week to either the Redskins or Vikings?

Him and Rodgers were not on the same page at the end of last season and this year the team's looked out of sorts for multiple weeks. I haven't heard anything about him being on the hotseat, but I figured there's gotta be a chance they look elsewhere if the season ends with a couple more losses.

 

[its haLL baLL]

Joseph was a good draft pick. He was picked in the 40's overall and 2nd round. He is a good run stopper but not much of a pass rusher and has never made the pro bowl. It was a good not great pick.

David Wilson was a bit of a reach in the first round in my opinion but was a decent draft pick that did not work out. He had a repuation of fumbling the ball and lived up to that in his first season. He was lightning fast but did not work out.

That is a first and second round draft pick that did not work out for Reese. Have to grade those two combined as no better than a C. Thems are the facts.

Anyone can make decent 1st and 2nd round picks. The best GMs are the ones that find solid value in rounds 3 and on and Reese has not done that.

David Wilson - 21 games played, 115 carries, 504 yards, 4.4 yards per carry, 5 rushing touchdowns, 6 receptions, 42 yards, 1 touchdown, 1 return touchdown.

Obviously his career was cut short to injury, but those aren't eye-popping numbers.

 

[hallgrad80]

The NFL has been a league that recycles head coaches for the most part , occasionally dips into the college ranks, ala Pete Carroll or Chip Kelly , or hires coordinators. If the Giants job opens up , I'm not sure which route they go with this exception. If the concensus is that it will take more then one year to rebuild I could envision them hiring a young coordinator who would have the patience to let the infusion of young talent develop and for him to mature as a head coach.

 

[TomD82]

Some good points by all. I don't have any problem with McAdoo's system. Mike Francessa said on the radio that this is not Tom's type of team any longer. He wants to run the ball and throw the ball down the field. Well with OBJ the first play of the Carolina game was a post down the field and it looks like Jennings can run the ball. They don't throw the seam to the TE down the field anymore, but what are they suppossed to do bring back Kevin Gilbride for Coughlin to throw the ball his way?

Sherman is hands on with the offense and is back calling the plays. Bruce Arians is hands on with the offense. Bowles and Zimmer have their hands on the defense. What is Coughlin hands on with? And believe me 112 Coughlin told Reese he could fix Wilson's fumbling just like he fixed Tiki's fumbling.

 

[hallgrad80]

There had been a lot of media speculation that in order for Spags to come back to the Giants he would have complete control of the defense and that TC's main focus would be on the offense . How accurate that is is anyone's guess.

 

[Piratz]

One good thing about a coaching change is we can stop hearing all of these conspiracy theories.

 

[Section112]

I agree that Coughlin thought he could fix Wilson's fumbling - he did fix Tiki and Tiki has never given him credit for that (but Tiki is an ahole). The TE seam route is still part of the offense but they don't have a TE that is healthy enought or big enough to run it. You saw it earlier in the season.

I think Coughlin and Reese are good men but they know the business and should be shown the door based purely on results. My guess is Tisch is in favor of a full blown change and Mara is the one that has to come around but last night could have been the last straw.

 

[NYShoreGuy]

He is shot and in these press conferences he sounds like Rich Kotite. He does not want to retire, resign or whatever and if they were 9-7 or 8-8 with the division in hand he would want to come back. You can't build a proper staff with his age, his contract situation and good ACs not wanting to sign with uncertainity for their contracts. If this were college basketball guys here would be saying how this hurts the recruiting so much.

but it doesnt hurt recruiting because there is no one to recruit, if there is cap space ufa players will sign for whatever is the best possible money grab; anyone that gets drafted at most positions of need for the giants in the spring will have a chance to start, a good gm will target what ufa to go after when the fiscal year turns over and this is after the combine so this group or a new group will have a game plan for going forward

the giants need oline reinforcement, linebackers, cbs and safeties you can get rb i mean look at the chiefs (charles a top 3 back in the last 5 years goes down and they have west and ware right there)

te group of donnel/tye serviceable, i think if cruz were healthy randle would have been a better complimentary wr; cruz is a big deal too in terms of health and salary cap space so has to show his health when team has first otas/minicamps of next season

on the offense you don't know what a healthy cruz with beckham and then randle is like for eli

i will throw away david wilson and chad jones because of their health scenarios; outside of nicks, jpp, beckham as first round impact stud players a lot of bad value was missed rounds 2-5 constantly, esp at linebacker

 

[NYShoreGuy]

I agree that Coughlin thought he could fix Wilson's fumbling - he did fix Tiki and Tiki has never given him credit for that (but Tiki is an ahole). The TE seam route is still part of the offense but they don't have a TE that is healthy enought or big enough to run it. You saw it earlier in the season.

I think Coughlin and Reese are good men but they know the business and should be shown the door based purely on results. My guess is Tisch is in favor of a full blown change and Mara is the one that has to come around but last night could have been the last straw.

it is documented on camera on a football life tiki and ronde barber that tiki gives credit to tc for fixing how he carried the ball to stop fumbles