Lol. What’s with the sudden obsession over Sha’s salary? He’s entitled to every dime the University was willing to give him. Don’t remember salary being an issue for anyone 7 games into the KW era.
A Sloppy Mess/Holloway Postgame
- Thread starter Piratz
- Start date
The problem is Richmond and Odukale are brutally bad, providing almost nothing. Trey looks like he wants to be anywhere but on the court for Seton Hall and Harris is either on fire or useless.
We just don’t have the players to compete. Expecting all these guys to improve dramatically as the season goes on is unrealistic.
From what I see we are a poor man’s St. John’s from last season. We will get roasted with this pressure and foul-happy defense against any decent teams.
We have bad interior defense, too, at this point. Sha needs to change his starting lineup very soon.
St. Peters ran fantastic offense in the tournament. I understand that they were poor offensively for much of the year before that. What led to the great play and sets in the Dance? There were x and o guys diagraming SPU's fantastic play calling during the Elite 8 run.
Exactly and that was on him. He did inherit talent but couldn’t recruit until the IW class and we know how he did that.
The team has looked bad against anyone decent and much of that has been lack of size. Sha had an offensive scheme with St Peter’s. Not sure why it’s not clicking for these players or if he hasn’t fully implemented it.
I see this as closer to a reload than a rebuild. We returned more than half of last season's rotation -- five of nine players. Those five players accounted for more than 3,400 minutes or about 106 per game and 66 starts. These weren't end of the bench players for an NCAA Tournament team, they were all contributors, if not necessarily stars. Each of the five averaged at least 18 minutes per game and scored between seven and nine ppg.
We added four starters from other programs to that group -- three from bottom half ACC teams and one stepping up from the MAAC. To me that's a win now team, not a rebuilding team. That also doesn't necessarily mean winning on day one, it's a long season and it's clear we need time to gel. Beyond the new parts, just about everybody is being asked to fill a different role.
Bottom line to me, this team is not bereft of talent. It may be mismatched and disjointed but there is a good bit of talent here. Of course, not having Yetna hurts -- given the roster makeup he is arguably our most important player. Certainly he is near the top of the list.
Beyond that, those players who are available need to start settling into their roles. I think the next player who puts together back-to-back solid games will be the first one this season. As a team, we need more consistency from everybody on a game by game basis. Until that happens, what we see is what we get.
We added four starters from other programs to that group -- three from bottom half ACC teams and one stepping up from the MAAC. To me that's a win now team, not a rebuilding team. That also doesn't necessarily mean winning on day one, it's a long season and it's clear we need time to gel. Beyond the new parts, just about everybody is being asked to fill a different role.
Bottom line to me, this team is not bereft of talent. It may be mismatched and disjointed but there is a good bit of talent here. Of course, not having Yetna hurts -- given the roster makeup he is arguably our most important player. Certainly he is near the top of the list.
Beyond that, those players who are available need to start settling into their roles. I think the next player who puts together back-to-back solid games will be the first one this season. As a team, we need more consistency from everybody on a game by game basis. Until that happens, what we see is what we get.
I don’t think we are as bad as we look, at least I hope not. Everyone is adjusting to new teammates. Keep in mind, when you are missing lots of shots it’s easy to look bad. What is troubling to me is the turnovers, a lot of our passes are really questionable. I saw lots of bad passes that didn’t turn into TO’s but could have. I thought Sienna was a very good defensive team, We got very few uncontested shots. Bottom line is we got exposed big time with 3 games in 4 days.
The lack of any type of an inside game or defensive presence is a killer for this team. When siena has no fear going inside its all you need to know.
I was hoping Nfedo was going to block some shots, but you are exactly right. I’m sure coach is playing Tae Davis more than he might have if Yetna was around. Missing a true big who can block shots. We’ve seen teams like Villanova get very far without a true big man, but their starting 5 was very talented. I would trade one of our guards right now for a big man. Unfortunately the cards have been dealt and now we need to adjust. I still think we can compete with this group, but really ugly right now. If we hit 40% of our 3 point shots we could beat anyone.
What does, "getting used to each other" have to do with 12 missed free throws, or missing constantly around the rim?
Serious question, who would you say is a playmaker on this team? Richmond has flashes and Dawes, when under control, can get to the rim. So 2 guys and thats not on a consistent basis at all.
When I watch Seton Hall play I see an offense totally bereft of skill and talent. Too many guys cannot shoot or pass at a high level.
Without being too harsh some players look incredibly soft to me and I totally understand Sha’s frustration. Were the public comments smart? Too early to say. High risk / high reward making those comments.
Sha doesn’t mess around so if guys aren’t going to play hard he’s going to bench them. Wouldn’t shock me to see some guys leave the team mid season at this point.
When I watch Seton Hall play I see an offense totally bereft of skill and talent. Too many guys cannot shoot or pass at a high level.
Without being too harsh some players look incredibly soft to me and I totally understand Sha’s frustration. Were the public comments smart? Too early to say. High risk / high reward making those comments.
Sha doesn’t mess around so if guys aren’t going to play hard he’s going to bench them. Wouldn’t shock me to see some guys leave the team mid season at this point.
That's called basketball, also why we keep statistics to get averages. Just because a team is suppose to shoot 70% on free throws, doesn't mean they will. Not making excuses for horrible basketball just simple saying or rather hoping they are not as bad as they currently look. When things go bad in basketball they can sometimes go really bad. I personally expected growing pains early in the year, I am surprised we are playing this bad, just not ready to jump ship, although after Kansas we might all be ready!
One of the keys to any successful basketball program is having the players buy into how the head coach wants to run his offensive and defensive schemes and play with the level of energy , discipline and effort that results in playing winning basketball. That‘s not happening with this team and the product we’re putting on the floor is unwatchable and both the coaching staff and the players bear the blame for that. The issue before us is why we’re seeing what we’re seeing , is it correctable and if it is then it falls upon Sha to lead that effort and to get the players to back it.
I'm on the ship all year, 4 wins or 24 wins.
Take any pre-season predictions made here (or by fans of any team) with a grain of salt. Everyone is an optimist when it comes to their own team. But should we just forget that the coaches picked them for seventh?
I agree with this although I will flip the thought. It's easier to look good when you're making shots. Just as it's easier to overlook the flaws when you're winning games.
The first two wins masked some of our issues but the Iowa game shined a brighter light on them. That loss could have been passed off as a bad matchup but one of the common denominators in each of our losses has been solid inside play from our opponents.
As a group we're too sloppy with the ball. That goes directly back to not having a true point guard and instead using several different players to initiate the offense. We're also out of control too often and that is leading to bad plays and bad shots. We're not going to be able to play a grind it out game but we're going to have to slow things down a notch. We desperately need to cut down on turnovers. We're at 109 in seven games which is three more than our opponents.
As for Siena, they're a solid team. I liked what I saw of them this weekend (I caught most of all three of their games). The disadvantage for us is their staff is familiar with Shaheen and was able to game plan more effectively for him than most.
As I said above, there's lots of basketball left. I'd be a lot more concerned if what we're seeing is the norm on February 27 than I am right now.
This.
We’re sloppy. We’re awful at fundamentals. Players are going in and out of the game like it’s a train station. We are a weird team right now and oddly coached, IMO.
SHU National Rankings:
**17th in bench minutes but just 206th in minutes continuity
**30th in experience
**52nd in average height (mostly because we have tall guards and wings)
**We are 310th in turnover % as an offense, 259th in 2PT% despite the height.
**88th in A:FGM ratio. Sorry had to add this after how insanely bad it was last year lmaooo
We are unorganized and the players are chaotic. I’m a big Sha guy but he should be able to get this cleaned up if he’s as good a coach as we think/know.
Great point. Of course optimism was high on this board but the reality is that as currently constructed, this is a low middle-end of the conference roster. As is the case in any season there will be games where they look better than that and games where they look worse, and yesterday was one of those games unfortunately.
I was hoping Nfedo was going to block some shots. I’m sure coach is playing Tae Davis more than he might have if Yetna was around. Missing a true big who can block shots. We’ve seen teams like Villanova get very far without a true big man, but their starting 5 was very talented. I would trade one of our guards right now for a big man. Unfortunately the cards have been dealt and now we need to adjust. I still think we can compete with this group, but really ugly right now. If we hit 40% of our 3 point shots we could beat anyone.
Again, stop with this “coddling. Once he got his feet under him, he had six NCAA teams in his last seven years. I don’t care how he did it but that’s a good bar for Sha to shoot for. And I’m 100% on board that Sha can get there.
Yeah, we missed 12 FTs vs Siena - make 6 of those and we win. Still a terrible game overall, shooting wise and defensively
Making 6 of those would result in an 81% free throw rate, that just isn’t realistic.
Shooting 70% would mean 2 more points. If they were on the front ends of 1-and-1’s, 3 more points and it might have made a difference. But it’s still Siena.
I know we've discussed this, but I think it's recalled by the overwhelming majority of people as about the same thing. Getting there and getting bounced all in one week is akin to being a MAAC power on a good run. Your biggest accomplishment is getting there, and everything else afterward is pure gravy. I don't think that's an aspirational attitude for a Big East team.
I have no expectations of becoming a perennial Sweet Sixteen/Elite Eight program, but if I don't ever believe we're getting out of the first weekend -- and I definitely lost that belief under the previous regime -- why bother?
Why bother? To make the tournament you most likely won 20 games. I want to keep winning 20 games. There's something to be proud of when your program wins 20 games. You might not see the difference of winning 14 games as opposed to 20 games if you lose in the 1st weekend, but I enjoy playing meaningful games in March and you gotta be in it to win it. That's why you bother. Seems like some people forgot the lean years of the season being over mid February. We're closer to being DePaul than Kansas. 20 win seasons and a trip to the dance should be celebrated.
As you say we've discussed this and your points are fair.
On the other hand, how many tournament games have we won over the last 30 years? How many years has the idea that we've been a tournament team been laughable?
When the answer to the second question is higher than the first, that too makes us akin to a MAAC school. Just more in a John Dunne coaching St. Peter's way.
The NCAAT one-and-dones always leave a bad taste. Especially when it’s the standard and in most of the games you get your doors blown off. Someone should start a poll:
6/7 years NCAA team but only 1 win. You get the thrill of relevancy all season but toast early.
Or
Let’s say 2/7 but S16 both times or something idk. You don’t get the relevancy all season but when you do go it’s national.
6/7 years NCAA team but only 1 win. You get the thrill of relevancy all season but toast early.
Or
Let’s say 2/7 but S16 both times or something idk. You don’t get the relevancy all season but when you do go it’s national.
Being a tournament team is never laughable. In and of itself, it's great, but I think my main point is that if you are playing in a major conference, which I consider the Big East to be, and your apparent ceiling becomes making the tournament, and you never advance (save for once), a lot of the fun -- more so, the hopes and dreams of what's possible -- is dashed.
Alongside this point, I'd say that a number of those teams had the ability to advance in the NCAAs but were damned by poor seeding, the result of the previous coach's inability to keep the pedal to the metal over the course of the full season.
See my reply to TheHall87, right above this. I'd essentially answer it the same way. None of it is to say, "I'm right and your way of looking at this is wrong," but this is definitely what I believe and how I feel about it.
i just think every roster we had during the Willard years was flawed due to the inability to keep up with the Jones’ off the court. Flawed rosters with some talent are going to have great stretches and poor stretches. None of our teams were so talented that you confused them with the 93 team. Flawed rosters go through poor stretches everywhere and it’s not because of the coaches not putting the pedal to the metal. It’s the inevitable nature of not having a post presence, the inevitable nature of not having a true PG, etc. Those flaws eventually show up and bite a team in the ass no matter who is coaching. I think the poor seeding most years was a product of who we were not so much taking the foot off the gas. Unfortunately we never got hit during tournament week. We got end of the season quite a few times but just couldn’t carry it into the dance.
I think that was more true of some years than others; in other seasons, I think it was more a matter of letting down the intensity and/or focus. Each season is unique, even if the results wind up being rather similar.
The only season I thought the intensity was an issue was 2018. I thought those guys wanted to get the regular season over and just get to the tournament. I think they forgot how the regular season impacts the dance. Don’t forget that was season where people on here were in awe of the speech the guys got from PJ. But those guys didn’t care.
It’s tough winning in the NCAAT. An example McCafferty has been at Iowa for about a dozen years and has had consistently good teams. He won the B1G tournament last year. He’s an excellent offensive coach. He has never reached the 2nd weekend.
kinda made what PJ did amazing getting us out of the second weekend a few times. Haven't duplicated that since
