Minneapolis earlier this week, 22 year old african american with no criminal history and in legal possession of firearm
Another no knock warrant fatality
- Thread starter NYShoreGuy
- Start date
Locke, 22, who was killed during the raid at Bolero Flats, was not named in the original warrant. Body camera footage shows SWAT team members announcing their presence as they cross the threshold into the apartment and Locke rises from the couch, covered in a blanket. He is holding his gun, which he was legally permitted to carry, and he is shot by Officer Mark Hanneman seconds later.
If this is accurate, it is a good shoot. Whether the gun was legal or not, you can’t respond to police presence with a gun. The one question I have was the gun to his side or was he pointing it? Let’s face facts, this is a no-knock warrant normally based upon the knowledge that the resident or target is known to have weapons and is dangerous. This guy just happens to be on the couch with a gun at his side?
If this is accurate, it is a good shoot. Whether the gun was legal or not, you can’t respond to police presence with a gun. The one question I have was the gun to his side or was he pointing it? Let’s face facts, this is a no-knock warrant normally based upon the knowledge that the resident or target is known to have weapons and is dangerous. This guy just happens to be on the couch with a gun at his side?
What are you referring to here?
As far as no-knock warrants are concerned, they are valuable in officer safety when they are entering a premises that is known to have weapons. Police announced their presence upon entering. The guy on the couch is wrapped in blankets and had a gun in his hand. He had plenty of time to recognize what was happening and put his hands up. Instead he decided to go for the gun.
Were the police supposed to wait for the guy to actually fire at them before they fired back?
I'm actually agreeing with you. The initial MSM reports went straight for the race card and improper police conduct. The footage tells a different story...why does someone sleep with their gun and the LEO's had no way of knowing if he was the criminal or not. And they did announce.
seems like rock and a hard place situation.
if the guy is asleep, does he really know its law enforcement? does he really hear them? i wouldnt. i probably would think its a random intruder as i wake for one second out of deep sleep.
why do people sleep with guns? arent you always complaining about the vast increase in crime? id wager a lot of people sleep with a gun nearby who live in cities.
im not saying this isnt a good shoot, im not saying it is. i just think these types of situations are bound to lead to disaster.
wonder how many guys in the south sleep with their guns. are they expecting something too?
also, how does that matter ?
Yeah, they need to get rid of these Democrat mayors with their Democrat run police forces, constantly killing black men. You don't see this in cities run by Republicans. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You have a weird obsession with the south. Law abiding gun owners normally have them in a secure gun safe when not in use.
lmao. gun onwership is extremely high in the south, thats why. why are you obssessed with trying to hold together your biased view of the world?
some gun owners do. some gun owners wear them on their belt. in walmart, picking up their kids from school, to bed. you want to act like theyre all locked up safe. lmao.
you have biased points of view. and you have one here. that man is allowed to have that gun wherever he wants in his house. just like any other american. and thats just one part of the discussion, the least important part. any thoughts on swat teams entering someones home without knocking, in the middle of the night? you dont think those guys in the south with 3 guns per home arent going to grab them? ?
Two different issues. You obviously don’t own a gun or anyone that does. Has nothing to do with north or south. Its about gun safety and you don’t sleep with one under your pillow unless you are expecting something that is very imminent.
On the second issue, there is obviously lots of bad things that can happen with no knock warrants. No margin for error. We have seen it. Maybe cern can explain why they are used, but there are probably some situations where it is the best and only option.
yet there are people who literally take the gun with them wherever they go. strapped to the hip. are those people expecting something imminent? are they expecting battle at the OK corral to break out in walmart? is it illegal to have a gun near where you sleep? my dad always had a bat under his bed. is he expecting a ball game?
There is a big difference between a gun in a holster with a safety on and holding one in your hand cocked while sleeping. Just proving once again that you really don’t know anything about gun ownership.
i watched the video, what part of that showed he had the gun cocked in his hand while sleeping?? i didnt see it that. maybe you have CSI miami computer zoom in technology
SHUSA. Let’s look at this case. They are looking for a guy who was wanted for murder. Clearly this is a dangerous situation. So no-knocks are granted for officer safety when there is a likelihood that the person has weapons. Otherwise, you leave the cops in a situation where they are sitting ducks by knocking on the door to be shot. Or giving time to the person that is wanted to go get a gun or perhaps get into a hostage situation.
No-knocks give the element of surprise to the officers to come in before anything gets too dangerous. But this is not 100% guarantee. These officers announced their presence, they were clearly marked as policeofficers. Yet, for some reason, this guy reached for his gun and had it in his hand. What do you think this guy was going to do? He was going to fire at the officers.
Let’s assume he is a completely law abiding citizen, the fact that he grabbed and had his gun in his hand after 9 seconds of the police announcing their presence means he was a danger to the officers. 9 seconds does not sound like a lot of time. But it actually is in this situation.
No-knocks give the element of surprise to the officers to come in before anything gets too dangerous. But this is not 100% guarantee. These officers announced their presence, they were clearly marked as policeofficers. Yet, for some reason, this guy reached for his gun and had it in his hand. What do you think this guy was going to do? He was going to fire at the officers.
Let’s assume he is a completely law abiding citizen, the fact that he grabbed and had his gun in his hand after 9 seconds of the police announcing their presence means he was a danger to the officers. 9 seconds does not sound like a lot of time. But it actually is in this situation.
If you are sleeping with a gun in your hand, obviously you are anticipating that someone is going to break down the door or enter without permission. Once again, any gun owner would question that behavior as normal.
they are sitting ducks, so perhaps they can get the guy when hes out of the house? unless hes in there forever. not only is it dangerous for the officers, but clearly theyre inexplicably doing a bad job of getting the right person.
these officers came in the middle of the night, announced themselves while people are sleeping, in the dark!
100% of people would have no idea whats going on and be in a frenzy. nothing about their presence is "clear" in that moment.
youre so delusional to think that guy knew it was police barging in. i sure as hell wouldnt. as someone who lives in a city in a rowhouse to myself i would absolutely reach for a gun in the same scenario. there are law abiding citizens who would have uncocked and pulled off a shot in under 3 seconds. which proves this could easily happen to law abiding citizens, which btw as of now the guy actually is!!! no crimina record and owned the gun legally. it literally shoes how biased (im using a glorified word here) some people here are.
originally i was only discussing how the police engineered that entire situation, and were wrong. thats just how it is. this is a moronic practice bound to lead to disaster. but its now showing light into you posters. talking about law abiding citizens, guy had a legal gun and clean criminal record (per fox news). so tell me hall85, cern, what about this guy doesnt make him a law abiding citizen? i have a hunch.
how do you know he was sleeping gun in hand and not gun on the table? again, there are plenty of people who sleep with guns next to them. for protection. cities are riddled with crime these days as you always say. gun activists #1 necessity is protection. checks out to me, certainly cant deny it without any kind of ulterior motive. any gun owner would react the same if someone broke into thwir house at night while sleeping. Fox news said legal gun and no criminal move. so what are you getting at?
Did you even see the body cam?
I will pretty much guarantee that if you are at a gun range speaking to others and you say you sleep a gun next to you on the table or next to you in bed, you will get 1) some quizzed looks and 2) they will the walk away from you.
yes. i did. nice anecdote about the few people youve spoken to at gun ranges. guess my point stands. the fact he has a gun near him when he sleeps doesnt mean hes not a law abiding citizen. so why are you referring to this case as though hes not a law abiding citizen?
A
anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0
Guest
SHUSA slaying 85.
85 always talks about how his kid has to leave the city early for their safety but is now appalled that someone living in the city might keep a gun near them for protection in case a criminal in crime infested city he always crows about breaks into their place.
I never said he wasn't law abiding.
You brought up some silly reference to people in the south which made no sense. Knowledgeable, .licensed and trained gun owners do not sleep with their guns or leave them on the night stand.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Where Do Gun Owners Keep Their Guns At Night?
Recently our team decided to conduct some research. We distributed a survey designed to help us learn more about where and how gun owners keep their firearms during the night. We isolated the responses to just those from gun owners who say they do keep the gun near or on the bed when sleeping...
The footage clearly shows he had the weapon in bed and under the covers at the time of entry.
From the video, it looked like a 9mm semi.
We do not know if he had one in the chamber or not.
Relative to the recent post about sleeping with a weapon in your bed:
If he had one in the chamber, he is either and idiot or he was expecting something specific real soon. Sleeping with one in the chamber is dangerous and quite dumb, unless there was an very imminent threat.
Sleeping with the clip in and no chambered round is less dangerous but also dumb. If you desire to have the gun available if you are awoken suddenly, your best bet is to have it close by in a known place. By sleeping with it, your tossing and turning could result in the gun being anywhere. Kinda like looking for your shorts in the morning after you had carnal activity. Waking up and fumbling around to find your gun under the covers vs reaching for the known spot on in your nightstand.
I don't think the entire story is out in this situation. I would say that had he kept the weapon in his nightstand, he would be alive today. Weather or not the warrant was correct , etc. is another story that I am not debating a this point.
From the video, it looked like a 9mm semi.
We do not know if he had one in the chamber or not.
Relative to the recent post about sleeping with a weapon in your bed:
If he had one in the chamber, he is either and idiot or he was expecting something specific real soon. Sleeping with one in the chamber is dangerous and quite dumb, unless there was an very imminent threat.
Sleeping with the clip in and no chambered round is less dangerous but also dumb. If you desire to have the gun available if you are awoken suddenly, your best bet is to have it close by in a known place. By sleeping with it, your tossing and turning could result in the gun being anywhere. Kinda like looking for your shorts in the morning after you had carnal activity. Waking up and fumbling around to find your gun under the covers vs reaching for the known spot on in your nightstand.
I don't think the entire story is out in this situation. I would say that had he kept the weapon in his nightstand, he would be alive today. Weather or not the warrant was correct , etc. is another story that I am not debating a this point.
I think you are cern really both have valid points. No knock warrants are certainly not ideal but at the same time, I'm definitely in favor of polices to protect the lives of police officers so I do see how they could be useful in more dangerous situations. I'm not sure what the right answer is. This is an unfortunate circumstance where I think many rational gun owners would tend to grab their gun if someone was breaking in and their gun was next to them.
I would agree with that. My own experiences in the Army on exercises wherein I was awoken proved that I has varying degrees of disorientation depending on the circumstance. All the more reason to not sleep with a weapon.
One interesting thing I noticed in the video is that when the weapon came out from under the covers his trigger finger was in a safety posture.
That tells me he likely had one in the chamber.
It's not conclusive but like I posted previously I think there are high odds he had one in the chamber.
Gotta love that CSI zoom feature!
Regarding the post on whether he was law abiding or not, correct me if I'm wrong but the warrant was served to the right address.
So the guy sitting in an apartment where the police have a no-knock warrant.
He has a weapon in his hand. If I had the choice whether he was a criminal or a boy scout leader cleaning up after the troop meeting, I go with the former.
For all you race baiters, I reject the notion that the police said to themselves hey if we open the door and the guy's black let's shoot him. I think the police would have shot Mother Teresa if she was under those covers and pulled the gun.
So the guy sitting in an apartment where the police have a no-knock warrant.
He has a weapon in his hand. If I had the choice whether he was a criminal or a boy scout leader cleaning up after the troop meeting, I go with the former.
For all you race baiters, I reject the notion that the police said to themselves hey if we open the door and the guy's black let's shoot him. I think the police would have shot Mother Teresa if she was under those covers and pulled the gun.
You don’t have the experience so I can’t blame you for your statements. But what you suggest is extremely dangerous not only for police but for the community. Also let’s not forget about the destruction of evidence that can take place while we wait for the guy to come out of the house.
In your situation, we wait for the guy to come out and he destroys all evidence implicating him from the crime. Whether it was drugs, guns, clothes.
Law enforcement around the country conducted thousands of no knock raids a year. Guess what? Very few go bad like this. One every couple of years? I am going with police safety. You did see how cops just going into a bedroom were sitting ducks for a guy in NYC a couple of weeks ago.
Btw, the words police being shouted over and over and search warrant are unmistakable. The first reaction is hands up. Not grabbing a gun.
geez this whole time we had a guy with CSI miami tech. who was the 2nd jfk shooter?
that video doesnt show any of that. it doesnt even show the guy in the first 5 seconds. youre just making it all up. and even if it was the case what does it matter? hes a law abiding citizen. hes not breaking any laws.
also tells you he wasnt ready to shoot anybody. hes sleeping on the couch with other belongings next to him.I would agree with that. My own experiences in the Army on exercises wherein I was awoken proved that I has varying degrees of disorientation depending on the circumstance. All the more reason to not sleep with a weapon.
One interesting thing I noticed in the video is that when the weapon came out from under the covers his trigger finger was in a safety posture.
That tells me he likely had one in the chamber.
yea , you did. youre clearly implying it. law abiding citizens store their guns in a safe place, and this guy isnt doing that. so why say that? hmm? youre implying hes not a law abiding citizen. based on what? his legal gun and non criminal record? or is it something else? now im implying something about you, dont worry i didnt say it.
So you are insinuating that I assume he is not law abiding because of his race. Let me demonstrate how wrong you are. First, I said assume he was a law abiding citizen in my post. However, there was 9 seconds of the police shouting their presence and shouting search warrant before the police shot him. He reached for his gun and grabbed it during this time. That actually makes him not law abiding because a law abiding person would raise their hands in the air not grab a gun.
Second, when people come to burglarize you or kill you in your home, they do not make a bunch of noise. It is quite the opposite, they come in with stealth and silence in order not to alert you to what is about to go down. Does it make any sense that someone comes in looking to kill a person shouting "hey, I am coming to kill you!"
Third, what makes you so knowledgeable about no-knock warrants that it is moronic? Have you ever been on a raid? Or would you rather put an officer's life in danger even more than what it is. Perhaps you just want the criminals to get rid of all incriminating evidence before the police come in. Lets actually make it harder to prosecute people. Law enforcement is a tough job. They are dealing with criminals. In this specific case, they are looking for evidence of a murder or the actual murderer himself. Do you have any idea how dangerous of a situation this is for police. They are going into an apartment looking for a guy who committed a murder and a guy comes grabs a gun when you enter?
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