As long as we keep voting for crappy candidates, both parties will continue to do the same. If the Republicans had a great candidate, I doubt Trump would have won the primary. Same for the Dems.
Bravo Lindsey Graham
- Thread starter HallBall10
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Candidates are not developed or groomed by any grand design of the "Party" . They emerge based on the dynamics of the time with many factors contributing. Trump was not "developed" by the Republican party. He emerged.
I asked for better candidates and you gave me reasons why no one will run. So we agree on one thing. You didn't imply anything. You gave me the harsh truth.
You didn't ask for better candidates you claimed there weren't any. Re-read your own post.
This thread is going off the rails a bit.
Knowknow (corrected me if I am wrong) is suggesting that it is up to the republicans for a course correction.
Does Trump represent what you believe it means to be a republican?
If the answer is yes, you don't see a problem. If the answer is no, then who should be working to change course?
Knowknow (corrected me if I am wrong) is suggesting that it is up to the republicans for a course correction.
Does Trump represent what you believe it means to be a republican?
If the answer is yes, you don't see a problem. If the answer is no, then who should be working to change course?
It's up to one party for a course correction? It's not up to one party. It's up to America to work as the Founding Father's wanted it to work. To blame one party is as idiotic as thinking the entire country should have been fixed by democrats between 2009-2016. Since it wasn't, it's only the democrats to blame for being in this mess. Trump needs to look in the mirror and work better with democrats, but Pelosi, Schumer, AOC, etc need to work with Trump too. They need to set the example and unfortunately both sides have been setting a crappy one. If you disagree with democrats, the quick reaction is you're racist. If you disagree with Republicans, the quick reaction you're anti-America. So while Trump gets blamed for being a divider neither side is looking to unite despite differences. Both sides are content to disagree and keep the fire burning with their quick reactions.
It is up to Republicans for a course correction for the Republican Party, unless of course, they are happy with the direction of the Party right now. I can only conclude the Republicans here are happy with where the party is heading. Personally I am not.
If Republicans worried a little less about what their neighbors in the other party were doing and a little more about making themselves better, the country would be better off.
One of the reasons I repeat myself over and over is so that I am clear.
I have done nothing but ask how we can find better candidates. You believe there aren't any - and/or if there are - they are unwilling to run. That's a shame.
Since you are so transparent and clear. You have a history of posting pro democrat on here. Earlier in the thread you agreed we all should focus on ourselves. Why are focusing on the republicans and not your own party?
You don't see a difference between the republican party before Trump and after Trump?
Yes, the party needs a course correction. We just had a stadium full of people chanting to send a political opponent of Trump out of the country. You think that happens 4 years ago? 10? 20? 30?
Democrats can't fix that.
That doesn't mean democrats are free from blame of everything, but this thread was specifically talking about the willingness of republicans to stand against racism instead of being a bystander to it.
You don’t see the difference in the Democratic Party pre socialist ideals and post? Go worry about that
Well yea... I mean the FBI director literally just said there has been a rise in domestic terrorism arrests and the majority of them were motivated by white supremacy.
In an environment where that is happening, we should call it out when we see it.
You really think wanting to give people access to healthcare and a stadium chanting "send her back" are remotely close?
I think both are equal and essentially the same. Socialism goes against life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, essentially putting the government in charge of most areas of our lives. Send her back is against the first amendment. You should be free to say what you want without any fear of that. However it’s their first amendment right to say that if they want. I’m not condoning it, but it’s their right. They didn’t deport her, if you believe in the first amendment it’s their right to chant that, however just because it is ones right doesn’t make it the right thing to do. (Example kneeling during the anthem)
A couple points.
No one is running as a socialist. No one is proposing state ownership of production.
Medicare for all would in no way go against life liberty and the pursuit of happiness any more than private insurance does. Probably the opposite.
As I said from the beginning, I believe Trump's rhetoric is dangerous. We should be able to recognize the lessons history has taught us.
Medicare for all is Single Payor, which is government run healthcare for all. Taking my options for insurance I can choose is a socialist concept.
So I basically just sign up for a different version of that depending on who I work for. The far majority of Americans don't get any options.
It's not socialism
Socialism would be we all pay in and all get the same coverage and all doctors are employed by the government.
No one is proposing that.
Your basing your comment on a strict interpretation of the common definition. 99 out of 100 people do not know the definition. You sound like an engineer explaining to someone that speed is not the same as velocity. (That's why engineers never get any)
The typical person on the street defines socialism as getting free stuff from the government. There are clearly candidates who lean heavily in that direction.
As well there are some definitions that only require regulation of industry without having to actually own it. Listening to Warren she clearly fits into the excessive regulation camp.
It sure is an assault an liberty. Any tax is an infringement on liberty. Obamacare was rule to be legal because it was ruled that Congress has the right to tax.
I agree.
When taxes exceed the benefit delivered and only benefit the collective few in power, revolutions are spawned. History teaches us that.
Yes. I am explaining the strict definition because people are using it as a boogeyman.
There are important distinctions between what socialism actually is and why it is bad vs. what people are proposing today.
Is the military bad because we get free defense from the government?
Or anything that is publicly funded? Like police? Education?
We all agree the government needs to provide some service. The only thing we disagree on is how much.
and you were free to avoid that tax by heaving health insurance. Those who choose not to get insurance cost me more money in healthcare premiums.
It is socialism. The government owning and running all of the insurance options for healthcare is exactly that. Government should provide essential services (military, police, etc.) and act a safety net. Running businesses that can be provided for by a competitive private sector is nowhere for government to be.
No way is that an infringement of the First Amendment.
While you are free to speak without fear of being jailed, you are not immune from the consequence of your speech.
Regarding Trump's tweet, it is conveniently being abridged to suit a narrative.
"Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places
from which they came. Then come back and show us how it is done."
Full Tweet for reference:
"So interesting to see “Progressive” Democrat Congresswomen, who originally came from countries whose governments are a complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning government at all), now loudly and viciously telling the people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful Nation on earth, how our government is to be run. Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how it is done. These places need your help badly, you can’t leave fast enough. I’m sure that Nancy Pelosi would be very happy to quickly work out free travel arrangements!"
Yes, only one is from a foreign Country. Trump got that wrong. AOC is from Queens, NY. Anybody toured that paradise lately?
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Didn’t the last president do whatever he wanted with a record number of executive orders.
I mean, there are private security companies.
The private sector could be the police force.
You could sign up for police coverage and your neighbor can not and only crimes against you will be protected. Sounds great.
Not sure why you think police is essential but healthcare is socialism.
That is an imaginary line you have drawn.
With that all said. I am not advocating for single payer... but I want that to be the starting point for a negotiation to get us a public option where people and businesses can opt in if they choose to.
If that were true, sure... but unfortunately the number of executive orders per year under Obama was the lowest number since Grover Cleveland. Trump is averaging more per year than Obama as well.
Also the only one to ever issue an emergence declaration for a bill that was explicitly rejected by congress... establishing a horrible precedent for the administrations that follow him.
You really think that is ok for the president of the united states to say?
If your family comes from a corrupt country, you can't criticize american politics even though you were born here and elected as a representative from your districts?
He told 4 people to "go back". 3 were born in America... If you can't read between those lines, I can't help you.
You're cherry picking two words.
You're the one that needs help.
Read the entire tweet, not just what you want to read.
Quote the tweet as it is written not as how you choose to quote it.
Why do you leave out the "come back and show us how it's done" part?
You're the one that needs help.
Read the entire tweet, not just what you want to read.
Quote the tweet as it is written not as how you choose to quote it.
Why do you leave out the "come back and show us how it's done" part?
Personally, I think he should have told them to go back to the rock that they crawled out from and stay there.
You didn't respond to the question. I asked you to show me where he said what you said he said.
You said he said, "If your family comes from a corrupt country, you can't criticize american politics even though you were born here and elected as a representative from your districts?"
Show me where he said that.
Stay focused.
I know you can do this.
So that tweet lead thousands of people to chant "send her back".
I must have missed the part where they started changing "and then bring her back to show us how it's done"
The presidents words matter.
His impact on his following matter.
How THOSE people interpreted his comments matters.
You know it is way beneath of what we should expect of the president.
The part where he said go back.
How can you tell people to go back when they were born here?
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