Brutal Numbers, Wow

[Piratz]

Almost impossible to win games when your starting veteran backcourt of Richmond and Dawes does things like this:

1/17 in the 1st Half vs USC
1/11 in the 1st Half vs Iowa

That’s hard to believe. 🤦‍♂️

 

[IronKaz1]

Theyre "All Big East" though

 

[jmt6762]

But but but...I thought they were disrespected.

 

[IronKaz1]

Not so much a knock on Richmond he doesnt hoist the 3's much like the other one, he at least tries

 

[The Crows Nest]

Almost impossible to win games when your starting veteran backcourt of Richmond and Dawes does things like this:

1/17 in the 1st Half vs USC
1/11 in the 1st Half vs Iowa

That’s hard to believe. 🤦‍♂️

Keep in mind they are underrated and disrespected…. So…they’re clearly playing with that chip on their shoulder

 

[IronKaz1]

If they had an All Big East team for most missed shots as a backcourt than they win haha

 

[IronKaz1]

Dont worry, Dawes will probably torch #1 ranked Northeastern next week 2 make up for this week and all will be good again lololol

 

[MTOleBlue]

I flew back from Boston after the Miami-BC game on a high and check my phone to see this. Wow, depressingly bad performance and again seems to be a backcourt issue… not good

 

[NYC Pirate]

Almost impossible to win games when your starting veteran backcourt of Richmond and Dawes does things like this:

1/17 in the 1st Half vs USC
1/11 in the 1st Half vs Iowa

That’s hard to believe. 🤦‍♂️

Also, your 1, 2 and 3 went to the line for 2 attempts. Dawes went 2-2. That's just brutal.

 

[shu09]

Almost impossible to win games when your starting veteran backcourt of Richmond and Dawes does things like this:

1/17 in the 1st Half vs USC
1/11 in the 1st Half vs Iowa

That’s hard to believe. 🤦‍♂️

But they're the best backcourt in the conference and disrespected......

LOL

Looks like it will be a battle with Butler for 8th/9th to stay above Georgetown and DePaul.

 

[NYC Pirate]

Not so concerned about the respect/disrespect aspect. I guess this is going to be a rebuild and not a reload.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Any reason why we choose to eat our own?

 

[Piratz]

I flew back from Boston after the Miami-BC game on a high and check my phone to see this. Wow, depressingly bad performance and again seems to be a backcourt issue… not good

Richmond was 4/15 and -16 against Iowa. He only had 3 assists to 2 turnovers, only 3 rebounds. He looked very passive other than a quick spurt of a few possessions to start the 2nd Half. Against USC it was 6/15 with 2 assists and 6 turnovers, -9. But at least he was getting to the line and had 6 rebounds, 2 steals.

I don't know what was up with him, but those are some scary numbers in back-to-back games.

Dawes finished 4/14 against Iowa, 4/12 from 3. 1 rebound. 2 assists, 2 turnovers. A -9 rating. He finished 2/13 against USC, 1/6 from 3. 2 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 turnover. A -11 rating.

It won't be this bad all season with them. So there's that, LOL.

 

[Halldan1]

Stats to date

Seton Hall Pirates 2023-24 Men's College Basketball Stats - ESPN

Visit ESPN for Seton Hall Pirates live scores, video highlights, and latest news. Find standings and the full 2023-24 season schedule.

www.espn.com

 

[shupat08]

But they're the best backcourt in the conference and disrespected......

LOL

Looks like it will be a battle with Butler for 8th/9th to stay above Georgetown and DePaul.

Yup hopefully Jerry, Zags, Fanta, Sha, etc now stop with the "disrespected back court" talk.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Yup hopefully Jerry, Zags, Fanta, Sha, etc now stop with the "disrespected back court" talk.

Never understood why people care so much about “talk” when talk has always been cheap. These dudes need to get on the court and ball out like they’re capable of regardless of what “talk” is going on out there.

 

[Halldan1]

Pat, they were just echoing what the coach said. It's their job to report what they are being told.

Now that the backcourt to date is not proving that true they'll back off as they are now seeing what we are all seeing.

 

[shupat08]

Dan, I'm really just baffled as to what Sha saw this summer. Unless our Defense is poor enough to make our Offense look good, which has happened in the past.

 

[Piratz]

Carino made a point recently on a podcast regarding how he thought one of the areas of reflection Sha may've had after Year 1 is the need for more positivity. In other words, while Sha is old school, in this day and age you can't always be so critical of players publicly constantly. They don't want to hear only constant criticism from the coach publicly and now they have options where they don't have to stick around and listen to it unlike in the old school times.

He seems to have gone out of his way to be more positive this year compared to last. That backcourt comment could be one example, idk. That was a big statement that he repeated many times. So far his players have not had his back; they've been awful.

 

[shupat08]

Carino made a point recently on a podcast regarding how he thought one of the areas of reflection Sha may've had after Year 1 is the need for more positivity. In other words, while Sha is old school, in this day and age you can't always be so critical of players publicly constantly. They don't want to hear only constant criticism from the coach publicly and now they have options where they don't have to stick around and listen to it unlike in the old school times.

He seems to have gone out of his way to be more positive this year compared to last. That backcourt comment could be one example, idk. That was a big statement that he repeated many times. So far his players have not had his back; they've been awful.

Maybe they started to believe what he was saying and then we have players thinking it's okay to take 12 threes in one game and not work within the team structure because he is part of "the best backcourt in the country"

 

[ivyhillparkk1963]

Let me add to the 19 plus shots advantage,
13 more offensive rebounds and only 6 turnovers to 14 assists.
It defies mathematics to lose by double digits with stats above!

 

[Halldan1]

Dan, I'm really just baffled as to what Sha saw this summer. Unless our Defense is poor enough to make our Offense look good, which has happened in the past.

I have to admit...in the practice I attended Dawes probably played the best 2 hours of BB that I have seen at the Hall from him. He wasn't just hitting shots all over the court, but more importantly he was moving the ball with crisp passes and playing not like a 2G but like a high quality point.

Mix that with Richmond playing better than he did in the UConn game and I walked out of the gym thinking these two players can match up well with most guard combos in the country.

Then the lights went on and......

 

[Halldan1]

Let me add to the 19 plus shots advantage,
13 more offensive rebounds and only 6 turnovers to 14 assists.
It defies mathematics to lose by double digits with stats above!

The game was lost on the other side of the court. Sure they shot badly but if they played a lick of D they would have won the game.

 

[HALL85]

Backcourt

I expected these similar numbers from Dawes. He is what he is and the inconsistency has been consistent throughout his college career.

Based on his commitment and talent, I was expecting more from Kadary in this tournament especially the way he came out in the first four games and tried to control the pace. Hoping this was an aberration, but elite players step up in games like this. Not to preview the future, but does he come back for his fifth year (with SHU or someone else) if he doesn't project as a draft pick?

I expected more from Sanders, but between the high ankle sprain and now strep, he's in the TBD column.

Coleman looks real good and I'm with Dan in having him start over Dawes.

 

[garyshu71]

Not sure how you evaluate our starting 5 when they’re practicing against our subs?? Of course they look great!

 

[Piratz]

Iowa shot .667 from 2PT range (24/36), Seton Hall shot .396 (19/48). That is freaking crazy.

It was much closer against USC, who shot 10/22, .455 to SHU's 22/55, .400. But the problem there was USC was also 10/23 to SHU's 3/16. Woof.

 

[HALL85]

I have to admit...in the practice I attended Dawes probably played the best 2 hours of BB that I have seen at the Hall from him. He wasn't just hitting shots all over the court, but more importantly he was moving the ball with crisp passes and playing not like a 2G but like a high quality point.

Mix that with Richmond playing better than he did in the UConn game and I walked out of the gym thinking these two players can match up well with most guard combos in the country.

Then the lights went on and......

I have no doubt you saw what you saw, but 2 hours vs 4 years is what we are looking at.

 

[Halldan1]

Not sure how you evaluate our starting 5 when they’re practicing against our subs?? Of course they look great!

No, as I said multiple times on the Trove they were not practicing against the subs. The teams were evenly split.

Richmond, Dawes and EHE were often playing against Bediako, Wusu and Davis. And also constantly switching uniforms throughout the 2 hour practice.

 

[Halldan1]

I have no doubt you saw what you saw, but 2 hours vs 4 years is what we are looking at.

Of course but I could only report on what I saw. Remember Jerry and Fanta also went to practices and were in lock step with what I saw.

I was hoping that at least with Dawes we were finally seeing the potential his ability dictates. So far that is but a distant dream.

 

[garyshu71]

The game was lost on the other side of the court. Sure they shot badly but if they played a lick of D they would have won the game.

We can’t give up this many points….. ever …..and expect to win . Defense is our only chance. Got to keep opponents around 60 . Not an easy task but when you’re so offensively challenged you have no choice.

 

[ivyhillparkk1963]

The game was lost on the other side of the court. Sure they shot badly but if they played a lick of D they would have won the game.

Yep and I would bet a good portion of their shots were bad , resulting in easy buckets the other way

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

People like to bitch for the sake of bitching. I bet if roles were reversed and we were the USC and Iowa in our 2 games we'd have threads about no killer instinct and an inability to put a team away with a 20 point lead. This is more bitching to bitch.

We all know Richmond is an all big east caliber player. He didn't have his greatest 2 games. Time to move on and get better. People can bitch all they want, I still want that guy on our team. We all know Dawes is the volume shooter we're going to live and die with. When he's hot there will be 20 threads of overreaction about he found it and how he carried us to some wins and how great things could be while when he doesn't have it people are going to overreact and be ready to put the screws to him.

 

[Section112]

Terrible take Hoopsfan. This thread is backed up by stats over two games against the first real competition we’ve played. If you are not concerned then please check your eyes. Most posters are stating facts backed by very concerning stats. Our top player looked bad. His sidekick was awful.

 

[cernjSHU]

Richmond was 4/15 and -16 against Iowa. He only had 3 assists to 2 turnovers, only 3 rebounds. He looked very passive other than a quick spurt of a few possessions to start the 2nd Half. Against USC it was 6/15 with 2 assists and 6 turnovers, -9. But at least he was getting to the line and had 6 rebounds, 2 steals.

I don't know what was up with him, but those are some scary numbers in back-to-back games.

Dawes finished 4/14 against Iowa, 4/12 from 3. 1 rebound. 2 assists, 2 turnovers. A -9 rating. He finished 2/13 against USC, 1/6 from 3. 2 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 turnover. A -11 rating.

It won't be this bad all season with them. So there's that, LOL.

In the first half, Kadary had some great drives to the hoop but it seemed like a lid was on the basket and he did not finish one up. You can see Richmond was frustrated and it affected him the entire game. This has been the same problem for him his entire career. He gets to the basket but can’t finish. I said before the season, if he could only finish like Eugene Harvey, he would be First team Big East. But, the same issues with him and Dawes have been present this year. The team will be u see .500 if you see this type of play.

Perhaps get Eugene Harvey as a special assistant to work with Richmond. He was the best finisher at the rim Seton Hall ever had.

 

[shu67]

Not only real competition but really good competition and possibly top 25 teams! SHU had to travel cross country and more time zones and dealing with sick and injured key components. We don't know if any of the starting 5 are also dealing with not felling well. Strep is highly contagious.

Given all that sure it is disappointing we lost both games but given how negative many of you posters are about the players and team why are you all so shocked? Suck it up!

Once again this was a great learning experience and we have a better idea as to what this team can do. Let's sit back and enjoy the rest of the season and see where the team will take us. There will be some nice wins along the way. I would still expect a lot of fight from these kids even if we are underdogs against higher ranked teams as we saw on this west coast trip.

I'm still rooting for my Pirates win or lose!

 

[Hall Is Life]

People like to bitch for the sake of bitching. I bet if roles were reversed and we were the USC and Iowa in our 2 games we'd have threads about no killer instinct and an inability to put a team away with a 20 point lead. This is more bitching to bitch.

We all know Richmond is an all big east caliber player. He didn't have his greatest 2 games. Time to move on and get better. People can bitch all they want, I still want that guy on our team. We all know Dawes is the volume shooter we're going to live and die with. When he's hot there will be 20 threads of overreaction about he found it and how he carried us to some wins and how great things could be while when he doesn't have it people are going to overreact and be ready to put the screws to him.

This isn’t bitching. What we witnessed was alarming. Our first two games against real competition were like looking in the rear view mirror at last year.

The four low majors we opened up against didn’t do us any favors. I don’t want to hear about chemistry anymore. We had four games to prepare for this and we looked as bad as possible for a team with some decent talent.

Wake up Kadary. Have a seat Dawes. Coleman deserves all of Dawes’s minutes and then some. I love what Dre has been doing by the way. He needs to find his outside shot and he can be a game changer.

 

[shu67]

I'm not sure why we are intent on always driving to the basket even if there are 2 bigs there waiting for us? Whatever happened to drive to the basket, stop, and pop? Seems no one on this team is taught to stop and pop on a drive! Mix it up a bit and keep the defense on their toes!

 

[Hall Is Life]

Not only real competition but really good competition and possibly top 25 teams! SHU had to travel cross country and more time zones and dealing with sick and injured key components. We don't know if any of the starting 5 are also dealing with not felling well. Strep is highly contagious.

Given all that sure it is disappointing we lost both games but given how negative many of you posters are about the players and team why are you all so shocked? Suck it up!

Once again this was a great learning experience and we have a better idea as to what this team can do. Let's sit back and enjoy the rest of the season and see where the team will take us. There will be some nice wins along the way. I would still expect a lot of fight from these kids even if we are underdogs against higher ranked teams as we saw on this west coast trip.

I'm still rooting for my Pirates win or lose!

We’re all rooting for the Pirates. Some of us more realistically than others. Have you ever noticed that when we play poorly, we somehow have illnesses?

 

[ed odowd]

Why can’t Richmond make shots 5 feet from basket.Driving ability is good just can’t finish.Unless he improves he plays overseas at best.

 

[shu67]

It is bitching from my vantage point an not very helpful to the players and the coach.