Carino on essentially why Willard is staying...

[SHUMA04]

Btw this is the only significant logic from the piece:

First, it's costly to continually eat the back end of contracts. Although the details of Willard's contract are unknown, it is believed Seton Hall is on the hook for no small amount.


The rest of it is all a justification and window dressing built around the above.

Does anyone doubt that if the buyout were insignificant, the other factors wouldnt move the needle?

 

[Flnj86]

Reading some of these posts is comical. Some of you posters have an inflated image of yourself, I do not know why the Knicks are not beating down your doors to be the next coach- some of you are coaching legends in your own mind, others think that their opinion on a friggin message board is going to make a difference, If you are real Seton Hall fans then you would attend the games next year for the players.

 

[piratehall]

SHUMA04 Yes without a doubt its costly and that is a concern no question. But I feel if they made a big mistake and they have to know they did I know its difficult to pay out but by keeping him IF we finally get things right with the program believe me it will really pay off in the years to come. keeping him prolongs the agony. Our fans gave a lot of support and the benefit of he doubt to Willard. A lot of enthusiasm this year. If we turn things around what a tremendous opportunity it could be for the school. more money fans NCAAS applications to the school just to name a few. Its not like he was given 3 or 4 years. 5 is enough and we are on a downhill course. Things are bad and will get worse even if we do better next year but don't make the tourney. that may mean a lifetime job. Today I saw where Boeheim said ive been here since 1962 and im not going anywhere. Sounds like something Willar might say.lol.

 

[anon_4htvdezyfe7k9]

04 - the idea that willard devised the whole gesture to eventually use it as PR leverage is far fetched imo. Is the school using it now for that purpose? possibly. I'm in agreement with the general consensus of what needs to be done but Willard gets criticized for everything from clapping to chewing gum to drinking water to his speech. This just feels like another example of piling on to me. Willard by all accounts is good guy and what he did was consistent with things he's done in his five years here. Kind of unfair to say it was calculated for other reasons, even if the possibility exists that the school is taking advantage of the positive PR after the fact.

This post was edited on 3/10 7:20 PM by phi_pirates

 

[HallLine69]

Originally posted by cernjSHU:
I don't think this article shed any light on anything we did not know already. Seton Hall financially committed to Kevin Willard to a surprisingly long period of time and for big money. The twist of the article is that it implies that since Seton Hall will spend big money for a long term deal, this will be viewed favorably to coaches when the job becomes open.
Yes, you too can be incompetent and get a long term big money deal from SHU. This should attract tons of qualified coaches over the next up coming decades.

Bingo. The logic spelled out by Jerry Carino is the spin SHU sold him. It is laughable and hugely disappointing that Jerry bought it. Money is the sole reason.

 

[SOSHU]

There is no exaggeration when I say that Willard is an absolute embarrassment in the way that he speaks. I have never heard a major division one coach who is more inarticulate than he is. I have been saying for five years that his method of speaking is cringe worthy. This is not piling on. The facts are the facts and Willard has the polish of a slug.

 

[SHUMA04]

Originally posted by phi_pirates:
04 - the idea that willard devised the whole gesture to eventually use it as PR leverage is far fetched imo. Is the school using it now for that purpose? possibly. I'm in agreement with the general consensus of what needs to be done but Willard gets criticized for everything from clapping to chewing gum to drinking water to his speech. This just feels like another example of piling on to me. Willard by all accounts is good guy and what he did was consistent with things he's done in his five years here. Kind of unfair to say it was calculated for other reasons, even if the possibility exists that the school is taking advantage of the positive PR after the fact.

This post was edited on 3/10 7:20 PM by phi_pirates

I take your point. i don't think he was thinking Fox and the media would blast this. When I say PR, I mean relations with the fan base and SHU community. I agree that this has been carried far more than he would ever gave intended in terms of media relations. But he's now milking it, for sure.

I think many people don't want to believe this because it's uncomortable to do so. And I feel uncomfortable as well, it's just that I have a high degree of conviction on this and feel unsettled by how it's been leveraged.

FWIW I've never in writing or even to my tv screen picked on a coach for personal habits like clapping and drinking. That's juvenile. We all have idiosyncrasies including myself. In fact, for a winning cosch, they become "charming."

Contriving a situation to show how good a guy you are to deflect from performance, while showing up JTIII ( a good man) - imo that's fair game. And yes, I do assert it was contrived if he didn't get preclearance from JTIII.

 

[anon_4htvdezyfe7k9]

SOSHU - just curious, how long have you been following the program? We've had other coaches (fairly recently) who weren't the most articulate in nature. And "slug"? Really?

 

[SPK145]

Originally posted by SHUMA04:
Btw this is the only significant logic from the piece:

First, it's costly to continually eat the back end of contracts. Although the details of Willard's contract are unknown, it is believed Seton Hall is on the hook for no small amount.


The rest of it is all a justification and window dressing built around the above.

Does anyone doubt that if the buyout were insignificant, the other factors wouldnt move the needle?

This. It's money, the rest was self-serving fluff from Seton Small.

 

[SOSHU]

I have been a supporter of the program since 1982. Because of my career, I am an expert at oral presentations. Willard wins the prize for being the most inadequate in terms of content, flow, enthusiasm and persuasiveness. I have never heard any coach who is as lacking in these critical areas as is Willard. I am sorry to say that these are the facts. There is a concrete reason as to Willard's lack of success regarding recruiting. Unfortunately he is fatally flawed and his success at recruiting will never change based on the inherent communication skills that he lacks.

 

[cernjSHU]

Originally posted by Flnj86:
Reading some of these posts is comical. Some of you posters have an inflated image of yourself, I do not know why the Knicks are not beating down your doors to be the next coach- some of you are coaching legends in your own mind, others think that their opinion on a friggin message board is going to make a difference, If you are real Seton Hall fans then you would attend the games next year for the players.

Finj, I love how you attack some posters on this thread. Your posts have been all over from wanting Willard fired to saying that this team is making it to the NCAA Tournament next year. I think you should refrain from criticizing any posters opinion when your opinions have turned more than a NYC subway turnstile.

 

[anon_4htvdezyfe7k9]

Got it. Much longer than me. Just wondering if you were a more recent supporter who missed some of our recent coaches who were less than articulate.

Glad to hear you're an expert at oral presentations. Maybe you and jimmy can team up to take over the world.

 

[TheBluePirate]

Can you guys all forget the loser Willard and watch the WBB match happening right now????

 

[HALL28]

Think small. The words have never been truer. You can't "program-build" when you have a bad coach at the helm.

 

[HALL28]

Originally posted by Stevie_H:

What a magnificent pile of manure this is. Stability? Program building? More time to coach? Big East record + recruiting without assistant positions to give away + product on the court = all that we need to see. Some person or several persons, royally effed up the contract and the school can't afford to punt. We got it. Just own your colossal failure and don't try to pass this crap off through a media ally.

Well said.

 

[theaterman]

Next year Willard's opening line..." Well we're only sophmores....."

 

[theaterman]

Next year Willard's opening line..." Well we're only sophmores....."

 

[radecicco]

Carino was just reporting the info that he had. Most of it has been debated here ad nauseum. His column was not in any way a ringing endorsement.

 

[Halldan1]

Exactly. Carino is a reporter. He had access to information obviously coming from our school/program so he did what any reporter would do, he wrote a story.

This was not an editorial. Jerry is a SHU beat writer. Do you really think he's in a position to call for Willard's head.

When the need arose Jerry was critical of Willard during the season. And when the opposite was true he praised him. That's the job of a college beat writer.

There is so much hatred right now directed at our coach on this board that anything that is seen as an excuse for his performance or support for Willard is almost always immediately attacked.

 

[HALL85]

Originally posted by Halldan1:


There is so much hatred right now directed at our coach on this board that anything that is seen as an excuse for his performance or support for Willard is almost always immediately attacked.

Probably because there is a general frustration and our administration seems to be deaf, dumb and blind regarding our coach.

 

[williaza01]

I want him gone too but I will play along with not beating the negativity to death. I also realize the season is not over and the offseason has plenty of twists and turns. BUT if we are to try and get on board with this for next year I think we should be told some of the behind the scenes plans to make sure next team is better than this.

My biggest problem wasn't totally the collapse of this year it was that we were obviously less talented than most teams we played and I dont see the help really coming next year. We cannot rely on just every player raising their game tremendously because they are a year older. Is Nzei MUCH better than Sanogoo or Anthony? Because he will need to be. Will Singh be BETTER than Mobley in his Fresman year? He is going to have to be close. What is our recruiting looking like for NEXT year. Its late in the game and we still have scholarships and major needs.

Like I said I will play along and accept he is not going anywhere and we should stop the negativity but I think we need to be told a few more things about the plan before next October or us being drastically better is a pipe dream. Thank you

Originally posted by Halldan1:
Exactly. Carino is a reporter. He had access to information obviously coming from our school/program so he did what any reporter would do, he wrote a story.

This was not an editorial. Jerry is a SHU beat writer. Do you really think he's in a position to call for Willard's head.

When the need arose Jerry was critical of Willard during the season. And when the opposite was true he praised him. That's the job of a college beat writer.

There is so much hatred right now directed at our coach on this board that anything that is seen as an excuse for his performance or support for Willard is almost always immediately attacked.

 

[ArtieLange9]

Probably because they are weak excuses and no signs of improvement from Willard in 5 years?

Maybe because the fans are being held hostage because of an extension that was given secretly and undeserved?

 

[Stevie_H]

Originally posted by Halldan1:
Exactly. Carino is a reporter. He had access to information obviously coming from our school/program so he did what any reporter would do, he wrote a story.

This was not an editorial. Jerry is a SHU beat writer. Do you really think he's in a position to call for Willard's head.

When the need arose Jerry was critical of Willard during the season. And when the opposite was true he praised him. That's the job of a college beat writer.

There is so much hatred right now directed at our coach on this board that anything that is seen as an excuse for his performance or support for Willard is almost always immediately attacked.

Carino did what many reporters would have done, Dan. No, this is not an editorial. No, it would not be wise for him to call for Willard's head. I don't have a major problem with what Jerry did here. I do have a problem with any thought that this piece isn't a steaming pile of crap, due to the contents and transparent nature of it. Jerry is merely passing on Seton Hall's line of BS and is catching some venom shrapnel for it. I wouldn't agree with those stating Jerry is a SHU/Willard shill. That's simply not accurate IMO. That said, should we be surprised Jerry was the conduit in this case? I'm not. The most important point in all of this is that Seton Hall's reasoning is pure and utter BS. Can anyone defend that?

 

[SPK145]

Carino did what he should.have done. As beat reporter, there's give and take. You want to be the one to get leads, you've got to write the fluff piece every now and then.

 

[BabyBlue]

Originally posted by SOSHU:
I have been a supporter of the program since 1982. Because of my career, I am an expert at oral presentations. Willard wins the prize for being the most inadequate in terms of content, flow, enthusiasm and persuasiveness. I have never heard any coach who is as lacking in these critical areas as is Willard. I am sorry to say that these are the facts. There is a concrete reason as to Willard's lack of success regarding recruiting. Unfortunately he is fatally flawed and his success at recruiting will never change based on the inherent communication skills that he lacks.

Apparently, you didn't hear Louis Orr speak...

 

[Piratz]

+1 to Stevie_H.

It's the nature of the beast. Even the more "fair and balanced" come off as a conduit at times. Oh, and BTW, maybe what Carino writes is an accurate portrayal of what Seton Hall is thinking??

They're hitching the wagon to Willard and the 2014 class and justifying the 5-years of data suggesting Willard cannot command a program at this level. Maybe SHU's motivation is more about the being stuck in an issue where the price of Willard's buyout + a new coach's salary is too much, maybe they're considered about their brand image of rotating coaches an average of every 4 years since Carliesmo left... Who knows.

 

[Section112]

Originally posted by BabyBlue:

Originally posted by SOSHU:
I have been a supporter of the program since 1982. Because of my career, I am an expert at oral presentations. Willard wins the prize for being the most inadequate in terms of content, flow, enthusiasm and persuasiveness. I have never heard any coach who is as lacking in these critical areas as is Willard. I am sorry to say that these are the facts. There is a concrete reason as to Willard's lack of success regarding recruiting. Unfortunately he is fatally flawed and his success at recruiting will never change based on the inherent communication skills that he lacks.

Apparently, you didn't hear Louis Orr speak...

Or Gonzo who could not finish a thought and went from one thing to another. Just more piling on...

I still think he had the quote of the year about Angels rebounding. "...he's like a fat kid next to a cupcake"

 

[Piratz]

I thought Orr got the worst treatment of any coach. My God, it was vicious. So personal at times.

Even when he was winning people were undercutting his coaching ability and personal style.

 

[donnie_baseball]

Originally posted by Piratz:
I thought Orr got the worst treatment of any coach. My God, it was vicious.

Never knew Piratz was such a religious fanatic.

 

[chickenbox]

I think a big problem that contributes to rampant speculation which in turn can fuel unwarranted hostility is the lack of transparency. I ask this genuinely because I have begun to follow college basketball less and less over the past several years and honestly don't know the answer: how un/common is it for the basic terms of a high major D1 coach's contract - years, compensation, etc. - to not be, if not part of the public record, fairly well known? How un/common is it for schools to not announce a coaching extension? I imagine state schools are required to share this info, so I suppose I'm just asking about private institutions.

 

[sportsfantatic44]

Orr didn't want to tow the company line. Guy made 2 NCAAs and an NIT and he got ran out of town. Gonzalez was a good coach it was a shame he was such a jackass. His teams improved every year he was here (just basketball wise I'm not talking about anything else). It also didn't help that Glover wasn't eligible. Almost certain the Hall would have made the tourney if he was able to play. Willard is being treated like he has done something and is going to the next Pitino or coach K. I don't get it. Yeah the team has some potential but Willard just brings a losing culture here. I have zero faith he can get it done. The administration does. What else can be said?

 

[Jerry1992]

Agree piratz. Orr got a raw deal.