Collusion
- Thread starter Merge
- Start date
Is there a legitimate reason why a campaign chairman would give internal polling data to a Russian with ties to Russian intelligence?
I have no problem with a long and thorough investigation. But this is a microcosm of our entire government. Everyone shows up to work every day for 2.5 years and we still have more questions than answers. I'm less interested in the results of the investigation, I just want to see our government working properly. The Roger Stone thing is not a good look. CNN setting up an hour before, then they act like the guy was serious threat all while CNN films from 150 feet away. It's more of a dog and pony show than our government working properly.
Investigations take a long time because there are so many moving parts and people to interview. We are talking about an investigation that has parts of it dealing with an adversary nation in Russia. Watergate took 2 years to investigate into a burglary in an office in Washington DC. We are talking about a far reaching conspiracy that reaches across the globe.
With regard to Roger Stone, it had nothing to do with safety. If Mueller thought Stone may have had evidence at the house, then in order to prevent the destruction of such evidence, the FBI routinely does a pre-dawn arrest. This had nothing to do with safety because the FBI knocked on the door. If there was a safety issue, then there would be a no-knock arrest warrant where they go right inside the house.
Could it have been a show of power due to Roger Stone playing games with them? Possible as well. Nothing out of the ordinary. This happens all the time.
I mean, I have not seen any plausible reason why Trump's campaign manager would share internal polling data with Russia that doesn't point towards some form of collusion. At this point the best case for Trump is that the collusion was happening without his knowledge.
Where does this stuff happen. It's not happening by me.....EVER. I flick through all the news channels, I must have really bad timing that I don't see this stuff on a daily, weekly, or monthly basis.
So because the FBI has not raided a house near you, that is knowledge of how they operate? Do you have law enforcement background? By what you just posted, the answer is clearly no.
What we usually see on the news are the FBI agents carrying boxes of evidence away. We don't normally get to see the raid occur. If you want to know if it was standard operating procedure - talk to someone that works for the FBI.
You're exactly right. I agree with you 100% but what you're leaving out is why we don't see the raid. Because there is no camera man is on site for really dangerous people. There are 2 reasons for that. 1. They don't leak this stuff. 2. If the man is that dangerous that they have their fingers on the trigger, it's unsafe for a cameraman to be 150 feet away. Think is a bad look. So I stick with my point this stuff doesn't happen all of the time.
I flick between Anderson Coopper, Tucker Carlson, Chris Cuomo, and I don't see this stuff ever because they're cameramen are not there. Must be on Rachel Maddow because I don't watch her show.
The part that you are missing though is that most (if not all) FBI cases do not have such a high profile.
I saw rumors that Stone would be indicted on twitter the day before it happened. News outlets have staff in place at the DC courthouse just so they can see who is filing the sealed indictments to try and figure out if it is someone from the office of special counsel. CNN followed the rumors and we got a glimpse of something we don't normally see.
People are not being paid to sit and watch the courts in other cases. Whether you agree that it should be or not, any Trump-Russia developments are going to be big news... but FBI raids do happen, and the send more people than they need to be cautious and to show an intimidating force.
Ok it was on Twitter the day before and only 1 news organization showed up? As you said this is big news. Why did only 1 organization show up? Truth is Stone was rumored to be indicted for 2 full weeks not just the day before. They didn't show up any other day?
I fully expect Trump Russia developments to be big news and they should. And of course FBI raids happen, but they never happen where cameramen can view it. If it was that dangerous of a situation they would have removed the cameramen first. Do you think the FBI did the NCAA raids with that much tactical gear and guys with fingers on the trigger?
The rumors started with a sealed case filed the day before the arrest, and who the OSC was interviewing that week (Stone's son in law)
And just because there was no direct threat to the camera men does not change the FBI procedures. Their intent is to show intimidating force. What they did is not unusual. You just usually don't see it.
You can read many articles that said he was rumored for weeks and some will even say months. I'm not going to waste my time posting them.
Of course their intent is to show intimidating force. But do you really think they go that far all of the time? You think they showed up like that in the NCAA raids?
Yes, there were people who assumed Stone would be indicted based on false statements for a while... but it was activity during the week that lead to the speculation that it could happen on that Friday. Grand Jury met Thursday / sealed indictment filed that night. The last time the grand jury met on a Thursday - Indictments came down the next day.
I don't have any first hand experience in FBI raids. I spoke with a friend who works for the FBI and his view is that it was not unusual.
When the FBI decides to arrest a person in a house, a pre-dawn arrest and raid is pretty standard procedure. If there is a safety issue, the FBI does not knock on the door. They bash the door down and throw flash bangs inside the house. That was not done with Roger Stone.
Arrests at the house are not done in every case. Sometimes, the Feds agree with a defendant's attorney to bring himself in on a voluntary basis which happens often with white collar crimes. However, this was not out of the ordinary and standard procedure. Every case is different in considering the nature and scope of what crimes occurred or what evidence they are looking for.
Two years later - nothing. How about that Andrew McCabe Comey, and Rod the iPod Rosenstein? Crickets from the left on the exposed attempted overthrow using 25th amendment excuse.
I have no idea but the way they searched Stone's house indicated to me that they are getting desperate and they wanted to make sure they got any evidence possible and didn't have enough on Stone at the time. I think Mueller is a reasonable guy and I also think if he does not get something tangible soon he will shut it down no matter what he truly thinks. Stone and Cohen offer the best opportunities to implicate Trump. If they don't get what they are looking for through those two, I think Mueller shuts it down. Trump has certainly surrounded himself with a bunch of shady characters so the odds of implicating the Pres to me are still 50/50.
The FBI has certainly at minimum shown a double standard on how hard they are pursuing this case vs. Hillary etc. The difference IMO is that Trump has dissed the FBi every chance he had and that makes a difference but also has shown the FBI to be just another organization that is corruptable and it has been since J Edgar. The McCabe stuff is amazing to me and he should be investigated IMO for leaking information and going on his publicity tour. That is not how a Federal Agent (current or former) should act and Comey also stooped to low levels too leaking information. There should be no place for that stuff. I still think and I could be wrong that Mueller has tried to stay above that type of behavior.
Two years later and the only reason we know that Trump's campaign manager gave polling data to Russia was that Manafort's lawyers didn't properly redact a filing. It would be naive to think that will be all Mueller has.
Put yourself in their shoes for a moment, and you had a suspicion that Trump was compromised by Russia, what would you have done differently?
This problem is bigger than Trump Russia. Both parties suck. Both sides spend years doing investigations and forget about moving the country forward. At some point put up or shut up and let the country move forward. There's so much hate on both sides they become blind to the real world.
Stop. You are saying that a judge granted a search warrant because investigators are getting desperate? That is absurd.
Stone was directly corresponding with Russian intelligence. We know that to be true.
We don't know the extent of the conversations
In what way? Hillary was investigated and questioned by the FBI. Her aids were questioned etc.
The difference is that they were not lying and trying to cover up their connections with Russia.
I disagree. The president may be compromised by a foreign government. We can't ignore that.
It will take how long it takes. It is obviously fairly complex.
He did it to himself. He surrounded himself with a bunch of shady characters. They all lied about their interactions with Russia. He fired Comey and told Lester Holt he was thinking of Russia.
The investigation may have been over if they weren't trying to cover up so much.
So what do you suggest that we forget about whether or not Trump is an agent of Russia or has acted in concert with Russia? We are talking about the President of the US and at best you can say his actions and behavior towards Russia and Putin are shady. At worst, his actions are of a traitor.
Remember Watergate took two years for a simple burglary. We are talking about an international conspiracy with an adversarial foreign power and another slime ball Julien Assange. Look into Trump. Who was his attorney? It was Roy Cohn who was as corrupt of a human being legally, morally bankrupt and without a shred of ethics. Guess who else were with Roy Cohn? Roger Stone and Paul Manafort. They are all corrupt, selfish individuals who think nothing about their country only to the all mighty dollar.
It's idiotic. Let's say for shits and giggles he's guilty. By letting it drag on they've allowed someone run out country for 2 years, maybe 3 years, maybe 5 years compromised by a foreign government.
If Hillary's campaign chairman shared their internal data with a foreign country who then helped her win the election, I am sure you would be saying the same thing... right?
What's funny in all this is we're talking about politicians like they should be up for sainthood. Almost all of them are despicable. Slush funds for sexual abuse. Going in broke and coming out rich. Yes they follow the rules.
If only there was some politician not taking corporate money speaking up about the broken rules...
Wow CNN has you brainwashed. You continuously go after one side even when someone calls out both sides.
I don't watch cable news.
Just saying it is ironic that the other active thread here right now is a thread about AOC being an idiot but in her first oversight committee hearing she was going after the corrupt money involved in politics.
I think she's brilliant. She has millions of people following her every way she goes. One day she's going to make a book and make a ton of money. But if she ever gets her way, the rich people will flee the country just like the guy in the UK moving to Monaco for savings of 4 billion. As if they're going to raise taxes a ton and the rich are going to just take it on the chin. It's why plenty of people leave NJ for Florida, Delaware and Arizona
Perhaps, but not before winning a Senate seat before becoming President Booker's Secretary of State before finally winning the first of two Presidential terms in 2036
If they were not lying about something why did they destroy all their files on their server in such a specific way and not turn over that evidence when subpoenaed? I also have a bridge to sell you on the cheap...
