Giants seem to mostly draft lineman who can’t block.A dart board approach in drafting should be tried.
Giants - Disaster Part 2
- Thread starter hallgrad80
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On Deck: probably a very frustrated Miami Dolphins team looking to kick some ass
In the Hole: The Buffalo Bills
Should we just start Disaster 4 and Disaster 5 threads now.
In the Hole: The Buffalo Bills
Should we just start Disaster 4 and Disaster 5 threads now.
1. Their biggest issue is it’s a toxic mixture of an OL plagued by injury and bad football players up front. You can’t operate like this, I don’t care how good the QB. It’s killing any form of complementary football. QB who has regressed back to the deer in headlights because he’s being hit and pressured so much. Hey, this is football. The goal is to affect the QB, right? They desperately need their All-Pro Franchise LT back who can play on an island. That sures up one section. Start there.
2. Defensively, while that unit did enough to win that game and looked better last night (relatively speaking) they don’t make enough game-changing plays to offset the offense. Zero takeaways this year. Zero! And when your offense is so bad, you can’t allow 51-yard broken pass plays to TE’s from back-up QB’s on a team with 3-4 injured OL players.
3. The Special Teams is an absolute abomination. It has been literally since the first drive of the season. I can’t even detail the amount of miscues and penalties that unit had last night.
Football is week to week but this is a bad team right now. I’d be stunned if they won at either Miami or Buffalo but will be hoping and rooting. Here comes 1-5 I fear.
2. Defensively, while that unit did enough to win that game and looked better last night (relatively speaking) they don’t make enough game-changing plays to offset the offense. Zero takeaways this year. Zero! And when your offense is so bad, you can’t allow 51-yard broken pass plays to TE’s from back-up QB’s on a team with 3-4 injured OL players.
3. The Special Teams is an absolute abomination. It has been literally since the first drive of the season. I can’t even detail the amount of miscues and penalties that unit had last night.
Football is week to week but this is a bad team right now. I’d be stunned if they won at either Miami or Buffalo but will be hoping and rooting. Here comes 1-5 I fear.
I also believe that the Giants don’t have a top flight group of assistant position coaches. and right now it’s hard to have much faith in the head coach , both offensive and defensive coordinator and the special team coordinator as well.
Considering they had 10 days to prepare for that performance for the whole country to see, you might be right. Let's see what they can come up with 5 days for the dolphins.
Dabol looks to be totally bewildered & over-matched. I'm concerned that last year might have been a fluke; similar to McAdoo's first year. This is a very flawed team from the staff all the way down to the long snapper. They are not a physical team & play with little passion. Harder to watch than the Yankees.., as if that is even possible.
Watch the clip in this article. I definitely thought I was watching the Daniel Jones of two years ago during the game. Great analysis on how many of those sacks were on Jones. https://nypost.com/2023/10/04/daniel-jones-doomed-the-giants-with-six-bad-plays-dan-orlovsky/
Jones is definitely rattled. It’s bad. The offensive line stunk but I think Jones was even worse on Monday Night. I happened to be at the game and the place was juiced, ready to go. Unfortunate. That was such a hugely important swing game.
I don’t know how you fix it because Andrew Thomas won’t be back any time soon and now you have other injuries piling up. For example, they lost Schmitz (good year at center) and Bellinger (good blocking TE) on that opening drive of the game against Seattle which dramatically changed an already bad situation. The Giants were using 12 personnel to help blocking about a third of the time and I think like 5 plays on that opening drive. They couldn’t go back to it.
At least the defense has taken gradual steps to improve each game.
I don’t know how you fix it because Andrew Thomas won’t be back any time soon and now you have other injuries piling up. For example, they lost Schmitz (good year at center) and Bellinger (good blocking TE) on that opening drive of the game against Seattle which dramatically changed an already bad situation. The Giants were using 12 personnel to help blocking about a third of the time and I think like 5 plays on that opening drive. They couldn’t go back to it.
At least the defense has taken gradual steps to improve each game.
Don Lagreca of ESPN radio is right they should cut Neal. You normally don't see this from former Nick Sabin players. Also I think this is the beginning of the end for Schoen & Dabol. This stuff cannot be allowed to happen and cannot be tolerated. This is the type of stuff that went on with McAdoo, Shurmur and Judge.
IMO they will stick with these guys for a long time. I think they get it turned around later in the season but it will be far too late. What we worried about happening with the tough early schedule is happening. And good NFL teams with good NFL coaches are seeing through the cracks in the Giants very quickly and exploiting them to the fullest. That will continue.
I had hoped we were deeper this year. That depth hasn't shown up so far.
Looking like Eric Gray may also a potential bust at RB. He can't catch a punt and hasn't gotten close to the field to get any carries. I'm sure pass protection is an issue as it usually is with rookies but he is certainly not the RB of the future for the Giants.
With more misses then hits in the two drafts led by Schoen it’s disappointing particularly when you recognize that he had a free hand to bring in outsiders , which he did , in the key player evaluation and scouting section of the front office staff. Just too many misses especially with his picks in the premier rounds .
They're staring 1-5 in the face, maybe a huge amount of luck and they get to 2-4 and still have 3 games with the eagles and cowboys. If nobody makes a move to get rid of the problems they all should go. The writing is on the wall that this season isn't headed for the playoffs. Get rid of the problems which go well beyond Neal. Clean house. Now is the time to set the tone for next season. Curious how many giant fans would prefer to be 0-4 as opposed to 1-3 right now.
The Giants have had a habit of imploding over this decade of losing. They had expectations in 2017 after McAdoo’s first year when they splurged on FA and the season started badly then imploded and he was terminated. Same in 2021 with Joe Judge when they had some expectations after a strong start to Year 1 in 2020. You get bad losses early then the locker room becomes toxic.
Brian Daboll has a lot to prove right now. Last year they did a great job scheming around limitations and winning situational football. This year is a whole other story with what their facing with these injuries and shell-shocked, scared QB running for his life.
Brian Daboll has a lot to prove right now. Last year they did a great job scheming around limitations and winning situational football. This year is a whole other story with what their facing with these injuries and shell-shocked, scared QB running for his life.
I’d be shocked if it’s not 1-5. Then they have Commanders, Jets, at Raiders which you’d have to be healthy + sweep to have any chance at a season. Then you’re 4-5 headed to Dallas. Yikes.
Yup, the gIANTS played a competitive pregame warmup, then the game started. 😱
It’s just hard to watch the Giants play and see nothing that gives any of their fans, of which I am one , hope that they’re building a strong play off team. The interior defensive line is porous , their linebackers are weak, their OL is likely their weakest unit overall , play calling both offensively and defensively is suspect. When added to,a QB where serious questions being raised about if he is the right person to fill the most important position on the team it’s difficult to be optimistic with this one exception and that is they may be bad enough. to land one of the top 3 picks in the draft.
I was wrong for sure. The defense played outstanding 15 percent of the time, as bad as you could play the rest of the time. I believe Miami had like 130 yards on two consecutive offensive plays, something like that. So far Wink's guys are being outcoached by most teams. Their angles are poor although the Miami team speed is outstanding. It was completely embarrassing at times. Despite that they still had a chance. For me the coaching is vanilla and unimaginative. How can you not find a way to get Jalen Hyatt(one of best WR's in draft) a touch in some fashion?? If the line can't block you have to be creative. It looked like the goal was to set up 3rd and 6 whenever they were driving. I will blame DJ for the false starts. His cadence is too slow at times. He also was just a tad off on his throws, but not significant misses. His receivers struggle to make tough catches in key situations. Put him on Dallas and then tell me how bad he would be. The coach is sliding in my opinion. In the 4th quarter the Giants were driving down by 17 under 5 or 6 minutes. He's trying trap plays. Really? Wing the ball and try to score. Are we trying to lose in a respectable fashion? On the last Miami turnover, the Giants were still in the game. They had momentum and were in great field position. Good teams play action and go right to the endzone. We did a predictable running play. The momentum was lost. I'm already tired of his "We have to coach better, play better as a team" response to every question. John Mara should step in ASAP and start threatening jobs. They have ZERO first half offensive TDs in the first five games. The season is just about over. Maybe a slight chance for a turn around. The GM is also at fault here. Thank God the Hall at NJIT game is almost here.
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They're not going to be functional until Thomas, Schmitz and maybe even Pugh are ready to go up front. Again, expect 1-5 and see what it looks like heading into that 3 game stretch vs WAS, NYJ, LV.
The players they are playing on the line in the positions they're in is one of the worst OL situations I've ever seen. You literally had 2 guys in today that hadn't taken a snap. I mean, c'mon.
The players they are playing on the line in the positions they're in is one of the worst OL situations I've ever seen. You literally had 2 guys in today that hadn't taken a snap. I mean, c'mon.
So, are the offensive line issues causing the defense to play terrible? The coaches across the board are not getting it done. The coach refuses to play any starters in the exhibition games. So, they are always playing catchup. Remember there used to be I believe 6 exhibition(too many) games. I agree that a backup to a backup on the line is a recipe for disaster. I expect some success when the opposing teams are not as good, but maybe not. Right now are the Giants the worst team in the NFL??
Daniel Jones injury hangs over Giants’ ugly loss to Dolphins
After getting pulverized week after week behind an overmatched offensive line, Jones suffered a neck injury early in the fourth quarter Sunday and it added injury to the insult of a 31-16 beatdown.
nypost.com
Daniel Jones injury hangs over Giants’ ugly loss to Dolphins
By Ryan DunleavyMIAMI GARDENS, Fla. — Daniel Jones finally took a hit he couldn’t withstand.
After getting pulverized week after week behind an overmatched offensive line, Jones suffered a neck injury early in the fourth quarter Sunday and it added injury to the insult of a 31-16 beatdown at the hands of the Dolphins.
Jones’ health is the overarching concern, especially given that he underwent a procedure on his neck after he missed the final six games of the 2021 season.
The Giants didn’t score an offensive touchdown for the third time in five games.
Their first mistake was trying to play football at a track meet.
Their second was trying to do it with an offensive line that has now allowed 18 sacks in the last two games.
A painstakingly anemic offense and a defense that forced three takeaways but looked stuck in cement at times was no match for the explosive Dolphins, who averaged 11.4 yards per play while piling up chunk gains over three quarters.
The Dolphins had touchdown drives of 75, 75, 89 and 94 yards — but “drives” might be generous considering two of those possessions took three plays and less than one minute apiece.
Tyreek Hill caught eight passes for 181 yards and De’Von Achane carried 11 times for 151.
It was clear that the Dolphins were going to attack the Giants with sweeps, bubbles and other quick throws into open space from the start.
The mirage of a close game lasted until the first minute of the third quarter, when Hill beat a confused defense for a 69-yard touchdown to open up a 24-10 lead. With top cornerback Adoree’ Jackson on the sideline, rookie Tre Hawkins raced from one side of the field to the other to match up with Hill just before the snap and then quickly was left in the dust by the NFL’s fastest player.
It would’ve been a blowout sooner if not for Jason Pinnock’s 102-yard interception return for a touchdown that swung the game from a possible 21-3 deficit to a manageable 14-10 late in the first half.
Tua Tagovalioa’s forced pass went off of linebacker Bobby Okereke’s fingers, but it was a break for the Giants that the faster Pinnock wound up with the ball and a clear sideline path.
The one play means that Pinnock has half as many first-half points scored (six) as the Giants’ offense (12) does in five games.
Okereke got his own interception in the third quarter — gifting great starting field position — but the offense went four yards in four plays and kicked a field goal.
Once the Giants fell behind, their woeful offensive line — which allowed 36 pressures last week — was back in the spotlight. Left tackle Josh Ezeudu — who was filling in for All-Pro Andrew Thomas — was pulled in favor of Matt Peart after allowing the sack that left Jones in pain.
The offense scored its weekly first-half field goal with 3:41 to go, as Graham Gano connected from 49 yards out after missing from 55 earlier.
The scoring drive overcame three penalties committed by Ezeudu but was haunted by what could’ve been.
A potential touchdown slipped away when Jones led Darren Waller to the end zone but Xavien Howard tugged on Waller’s forearm until the ball slipped through his fingers for an incompletion.
It was the type of difficult play turned into a near-miss that looms large when playing with no margin for error.
They forced three turnovers on defense and still got trounced. That is hard to do.
As a die hard Eagles fan, Bird watching is always awesome!!🦅🦅🦅🦅😃
No. The defense isn’t good, but it’s not cataclysmic bad like the offense. We’re talking historical ineptitude. Unless you have a great defense you can’t carry an offense like this as you do need complementary football.
Both lines stink. Honestly that's the only thing the coaches should be judged on the rest of the way is if the lines improve and they become respectable. That's a great job even if they lose every game the rest of the way. This is like Nutley High School vs St Joe's Montvale. Results have nothing to do with coaching and everything to do with the talent gap. The giants are on the wrong side there so judging the coaches by results at this point is stupid. It's on the GM to get the coaches talent and the coaches to coach that talent. You can't give any NFL coach Nutley high school talent and expect them to beat St. Joe's Montvale's players.
The coaching staff is trying to make chicken salad out of chicken poop. We saw it a few years ago when Brady played Mahomes in the superbow. 2 elite QBs but when one QB is sitting in the pocket and the other is running for his life almost every play it's very easy to see who is going to win no matter who your QB is.
Lots of moving parts here. So far this GMs draft picks and free agents are suspect. Thats not to say that they can’t become good players. We just can’t give a final grade yet. It could take several more seasons for that. However, these players are not just dumped on the staff. They evaluate tape, attend games and work them out at the combine. So that’s not true. I totally agree that this OL play is beyond belief and two main injuries are key. So I guess the Giants should be 1-4 maybe 0-5. On the other hand we cannot give the staff coaches a pass. Remember it was the putrid blocking scheme on the punt the Cowboys blocked that caused the Andrew Thomas injury. I don’t know how this coaching staff will do over the next several years, but right now they are a bad team in almost all aspects of NFL football.
Have to change the subject.....
Man o man, are the 49ers THAT good? Looked so good on both sides of the ball. He doesnt look like him at all with the way he comports himself on the field, but their QB reminded me of Unitas for some reason. An accurate through average arm, but always a step ahead of everyone. A perfect strike to Ray Berry. Then its third and 11 and he runs a draw no one expects. (I miss the draw play.) I know the QBs dont call plays any more but the 9ers just tore apart Dallas and fouled them too. And if a receiver has a step on his defender, he is in Purdy's view. Beautiful stuff.
Man o man, are the 49ers THAT good? Looked so good on both sides of the ball. He doesnt look like him at all with the way he comports himself on the field, but their QB reminded me of Unitas for some reason. An accurate through average arm, but always a step ahead of everyone. A perfect strike to Ray Berry. Then its third and 11 and he runs a draw no one expects. (I miss the draw play.) I know the QBs dont call plays any more but the 9ers just tore apart Dallas and fouled them too. And if a receiver has a step on his defender, he is in Purdy's view. Beautiful stuff.
49ers are so good. Miami's offense is ridiculously good (speed personified).
Giants are a hard watch. My eyes hurt so bad after each game.
The O line is a complete travesty. I'm seeing the same DJones as we saw two years ago. And when he does have a clean pocket, he doesn't make the easy throw (see that 3rd down and 5 miss of an easy pass). He is not getting it done and behind that swiss cheese line, Tyrod Taylor didn't look much better. How fast can Pugh get ready? He's a Guard at this point in his career but let's put him at RT and move Evan Neal to RG. Probably not something they could do until the bye week but if Pugh looks good in practice I'd seriously consider it. And hope Thomas and Schmitz can come back soon to get some of these other guys off the field. I feel bad for Ezeudu as he was developing at Guard until the injuries forced him to play LT which he is not ready to do. What a mess! Maybe they should tank for the draft pick at this point. We need lots of talent and one more year of good picks is not gonna do it.
What bothers me the most is how well they were coached last year even when they were losing and this year they look overmatched on most plays. I knew the schedule was hard but hoped they would be 8-8 and look like an improving team. But they've taken a huge step back. Loving watching the Detroit Lions play now - they have built a team that can really play and will be a contender very soon.
Giants are a hard watch. My eyes hurt so bad after each game.
The O line is a complete travesty. I'm seeing the same DJones as we saw two years ago. And when he does have a clean pocket, he doesn't make the easy throw (see that 3rd down and 5 miss of an easy pass). He is not getting it done and behind that swiss cheese line, Tyrod Taylor didn't look much better. How fast can Pugh get ready? He's a Guard at this point in his career but let's put him at RT and move Evan Neal to RG. Probably not something they could do until the bye week but if Pugh looks good in practice I'd seriously consider it. And hope Thomas and Schmitz can come back soon to get some of these other guys off the field. I feel bad for Ezeudu as he was developing at Guard until the injuries forced him to play LT which he is not ready to do. What a mess! Maybe they should tank for the draft pick at this point. We need lots of talent and one more year of good picks is not gonna do it.
What bothers me the most is how well they were coached last year even when they were losing and this year they look overmatched on most plays. I knew the schedule was hard but hoped they would be 8-8 and look like an improving team. But they've taken a huge step back. Loving watching the Detroit Lions play now - they have built a team that can really play and will be a contender very soon.
When you’re 1-4 with a -91 point differential (15 worse than the next team) everyone has to answer. Plus this is a franchise that hasn’t seen a coach make Year 3 since Tom Coughlin. That’s 8 years ago since he left. So it always feels chaotic.
1. The situation with the Giants was the worst-case scenario coming into the season with the injuries to the OL. And it happened immediately. Some curious decisions are playing out now. For example, no swing tackle or center positional backups. Putting guards in these spots is not working. Josh Ezudu was the backup LT? Then why didn’t he take snaps there in Camp? They can’t do it physically and now you’re seeing the lack of experience in making blocking calls at the line too. It really impacted the QB too and now he’s hurt, predictably.
2. It’s still way too early to place verdicts on the 2022 Draft class at 5 games into Year 2, but the trend is poor for the top-3 rounds. Neal stinks, Thibodeaux is average, and Ezudu wasn’t drafted to play tackle. The rest of the players that year look like typical back round picks.
3. While they did try to invest to build off last year, they have a lot of easy decisions to make at the deadline and expiring contracts left by Gettleman: Leonard Willams (most overpaid/overhyped NFL player) will be a FA. So will Adoree Jackson. I’d try to trade them both as they have huge cap hits.
1. The situation with the Giants was the worst-case scenario coming into the season with the injuries to the OL. And it happened immediately. Some curious decisions are playing out now. For example, no swing tackle or center positional backups. Putting guards in these spots is not working. Josh Ezudu was the backup LT? Then why didn’t he take snaps there in Camp? They can’t do it physically and now you’re seeing the lack of experience in making blocking calls at the line too. It really impacted the QB too and now he’s hurt, predictably.
2. It’s still way too early to place verdicts on the 2022 Draft class at 5 games into Year 2, but the trend is poor for the top-3 rounds. Neal stinks, Thibodeaux is average, and Ezudu wasn’t drafted to play tackle. The rest of the players that year look like typical back round picks.
3. While they did try to invest to build off last year, they have a lot of easy decisions to make at the deadline and expiring contracts left by Gettleman: Leonard Willams (most overpaid/overhyped NFL player) will be a FA. So will Adoree Jackson. I’d try to trade them both as they have huge cap hits.
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