Have you changed your opinion?
- Thread starter Halldan1
- Start date
That's society. We have to name call. It's the notion that you don't have to work with the other side, rather there's an abstract truth that one side believes in that you can bludgeon your way into by "calling out" and the like.
That's been true for decades. However people act as if it started with the current president.
I cannot remember every having the anthem played before a concert or any entertainment but a sporting event .
Curious if I asked Thomas Jeff, Tom, we had a guy who wanted to show his displeasure with something in society by kneeling during the anthem. When he did so, the industry that employed him silently blackballed him, costing him his livelihood. Which action do you think embodies what you were thinking when you and your old cronies set up this nation.
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-xpm-1990-08-28-9008280458-story.html
O'CONNOR PROTESTS U.S. ANTHEM AT CONCERT
THE ORLANDO SENTINEL
Irish pop singer Sinead O'Connor threatened to walk out on a concert if "The Star-Spangled Banner" was played beforehand. The national anthem was not played, but the singer known for her skinhead-style haircut was banned from any future performances at the Garden State Arts Center in Holmdel, N.J. The arts center acquiesced to her ultimatum Friday, fearing that a last-minute cancellation would cause a commotion. But a statement issued by the 9,000-seat center said that in the future, no performer who does not agree to have the national anthem played will be allowed to perform.
O'Connor, whose recordings include "Nothing Compares 2 U," told USA Today: "I don't see what (anthems) have to do with me or my music or my fans." She added some criticism of U.S. policy on arts funding: "I feel very strongly about censorship, and I don't want to go onstage after the anthem of a country that's arresting people and harassing people for expressing themselves onstage."
O'CONNOR PROTESTS U.S. ANTHEM AT CONCERT
THE ORLANDO SENTINEL
Irish pop singer Sinead O'Connor threatened to walk out on a concert if "The Star-Spangled Banner" was played beforehand. The national anthem was not played, but the singer known for her skinhead-style haircut was banned from any future performances at the Garden State Arts Center in Holmdel, N.J. The arts center acquiesced to her ultimatum Friday, fearing that a last-minute cancellation would cause a commotion. But a statement issued by the 9,000-seat center said that in the future, no performer who does not agree to have the national anthem played will be allowed to perform.
O'Connor, whose recordings include "Nothing Compares 2 U," told USA Today: "I don't see what (anthems) have to do with me or my music or my fans." She added some criticism of U.S. policy on arts funding: "I feel very strongly about censorship, and I don't want to go onstage after the anthem of a country that's arresting people and harassing people for expressing themselves onstage."
U.S. Soccer might end kneeling ban: report
By SARAH VALENZUELA
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS |
https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/...0200608-g3tkd5v22nc5bcigce5vbrcwfi-story.html
Three years after the sport’s national governing body banned its players from kneeling during the playing of the national anthem, USSF is reportedly considering overturning that rule, according to ESPN.
The ban was first put in place in 2017 as a direct response to Megan Rapinoe, who began kneeling during U.S. women’s national soccer team games in 2016 in solidarity with ex-NFL quarterback Colin Kaepernick, who started the trend. Kneeling during the national anthem became an popular method of peaceful protest, though received much backlash and was inaccurately criticized for being disrespectful to the flag and U.S. troops.
Of course, the criticism was never really about the kneeling.
Megan Rapinoe kneels during the playing of the national anthem before the United States' soccer match against Thailand in 2016. (Kyle Robertson / AP)
American sports leagues and governing bodies have been under pressure from their athletes to support the Black Lives Matter movement, and do so with more than just words.
By SARAH VALENZUELA
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS |
https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/...0200608-g3tkd5v22nc5bcigce5vbrcwfi-story.html
Three years after the sport’s national governing body banned its players from kneeling during the playing of the national anthem, USSF is reportedly considering overturning that rule, according to ESPN.
The ban was first put in place in 2017 as a direct response to Megan Rapinoe, who began kneeling during U.S. women’s national soccer team games in 2016 in solidarity with ex-NFL quarterback Colin Kaepernick, who started the trend. Kneeling during the national anthem became an popular method of peaceful protest, though received much backlash and was inaccurately criticized for being disrespectful to the flag and U.S. troops.
Of course, the criticism was never really about the kneeling.
Megan Rapinoe kneels during the playing of the national anthem before the United States' soccer match against Thailand in 2016. (Kyle Robertson / AP)
American sports leagues and governing bodies have been under pressure from their athletes to support the Black Lives Matter movement, and do so with more than just words.
I’m sorry but that’s a laughable overreach. How is not doing it during a national anthem telling you when and how to express your displeasure? Asking people to respect something that is widely considered sacred isn’t oppressive.
Let me ask you a question, if you had a loved one who was buried at a cemetery with a headstone, and you went to visit that headstone but it’s converted in dirt, grass, leaves, etc. - would you clean it off? Cause it’s really just a symbol, and what and who it symbolizes is clearly more important, but I would bet that paying simple respects to the person who’s died would mean you would clear it off. That’s how I feel about the flag. It represents the people who have fought for freedom past and present, and it represents a beacon of freedom for the future. It doesn’t represent America being perfect or any immediate current state. It’s as much about hope as anything else, and I would think those that feel disrespected or oppressed would actually look towards it with more revere than anyone else.
I would clean it off. In fact, I recently have done so. But if I didnt, I would not think I should lose my job, not even if I spit on the headstone.
Do they have the right if their employer, ie, the team, tells them not to do so? It isn’t a first amendment issue as it does not involve the government suppressing an individuals right of expression, and I don’t believe the CBA has anything explicitly permitting it.
If the league and owners change their stance and allow players to do this, than absolutely the players have the right to do so. Question will then be how it impacts customers and their bottom line.
Understandable, but it's not a black and white (not a racial comment) question. Optics are involved and when a subject as powerful as minority rights is involved it's a sensible response to thread carefully.
Well, they didn't want to be, that was the point of having their own flag.
Man a lot of people on this board need a history lesson, good read a book, watch documenteries, subscribe to the history channel app
Based on your responses, you should work in immigration and tell everyone of all races they are nuts trying to move into this country. It's amazing how many baseball players from Venezuela, Cuba, Dominican Republic, etc value coming to the USA and stand patriotic for the Red, White, and Blue. I'll never say America is perfect. She's not. But it's the greatest country in the world and that's the reason why people are trying to sneak in.
It’s always been ok. The real problem is the narrow minded people who can’t see it for what it is, don’t understand is and claim that they will never see it any other way. That’s the real disrespect
I choose to stand, but who am I to tell someone else what to do? Quietly kneeling is not disruptive so I don't see it as offensive or disrespectful. The jerks in the stands who who feel the need to shout something (obscenities or "team/player sucks" or whatever) during the anthem are far worse in my opinion.
You both stand at times and kneel at times during mass. Plenty of people like to kneel in prayer. Genuflection is a kneeling action intended to show deep respect. There's nothing inherently disrespectful about kneeling.
Again, making noise/being disruptive would be an issue. Even quietly turning your back would be a pretty clear sign of disrespect. Kneeling isn't.
You both stand at times and kneel at times during mass. Plenty of people like to kneel in prayer. Genuflection is a kneeling action intended to show deep respect. There's nothing inherently disrespectful about kneeling.
Again, making noise/being disruptive would be an issue. Even quietly turning your back would be a pretty clear sign of disrespect. Kneeling isn't.
I’m ok with with it, since a) it is not protesting the flag but racism, b) this was suggested by a green beret who actually advised that sitting for the anthem was disrespectful, but suggested instead to take a knee. He said taking a knee in the military is actually a sign of respect, for your fallen comrade, or even a means of communicating you need a Breather.
I can’t speak from my own experience so I have to take his word. But knowing the protest is not aimed at the flag or our military, I’ve come around to it’s ok.
Legally, I think it is clear what the teams/owners/league are allowed to do. Morally and for optics reasons I agree 100% with you. If they choose to allow it players can do what they choose, and the players and teams can live with the consequences if it hurts business.
It’s good that you and I are able to discuss these things without devolving into attack mode. I said your flag and cross analogy was not fair; my reason is simple. Religion is a choice; freedom is a broader concept and is guaranteed. Some of us (I am white but use “us” to mean American citizens) are periodically killed while unarmed by racist cops who do a disservice to the many, many, many brave and honest cops. You seem to equate kneeling with disrespect; those who kneel are not dissing the military, they are peacefully expressing rage with the fact that they are subject to being deprived of their freedom and their very life by racist acts. And when police unions do nothing to get rid of the racist cops and in fact let them enjoy the protections that are there for the many good cops, that is a further offense and a disgrace.
It changed my idea of what it was about. I now have no problem with it but did before.
The imagery of a police officer suffocating a man to death for 9 minutes by kneeling on his neck which including 3 minutes while unconscious is the same motion used to demonstrate against police brutality is a bit of irony to me.
I watched the video about 3 times and still don't understand how something like this can happen
So yes do what you need to do peacefully for change. One less objector here
The imagery of a police officer suffocating a man to death for 9 minutes by kneeling on his neck which including 3 minutes while unconscious is the same motion used to demonstrate against police brutality is a bit of irony to me.
I watched the video about 3 times and still don't understand how something like this can happen
So yes do what you need to do peacefully for change. One less objector here
I would agree with your position if they were kneeling for more than the 2 minutes of the anthem. They only choose to draw attention to the problem for 2 minutes per week? The cameras are on football players 3 hours every Sunday and they only choose to do bring awareness on an issue this big for 2 minutes. How about instead of during the anthem, how about doing something during every kickoff, every field goal, every touchdown, every change of possession, so people are constantly reminded of this serious issue every 10 minutes. Hell I'd have no problem if every time we shot 2 free throws, our entire team knelt during the first free throw. That would bring the same awareness, it would piss off maybe 1% of the audience and it would be a more frequent reminder.
A lot of work visas and not full time residents or citizens well outside of Cuba...are you familiar with the Mariel Boatlift?
Also many P6 citizens here that can be found at your local ethnic food establishments....unless you are 100 native american we are all immigrants from somewhere...me I am first generation born USA on fathers side, second on mothers side...my fathers extended family were Italian nationals who lived in what is now modern day croatia when italy controlled the territory in a seafront city known as Pola or Pula on the Isterian Peninsula. Do you know what Tito's people did to Italian nationals during and after WW2? They had ethnic cleansings in Dalmatia and Isteria known as the Fobie Massacres and there is a known Isterian Dalmatian exodus of Italian nationals from the late 40s through the early 60s. Many from Isteria came through ellis island and settled in Brooklyn or went to Australia. The cooking family Bastinach came here through this as did racecar driver Mario Andretti.
Over these past couple of weeks, I've been mulling a thought. The Declaration of Independence says in part, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
Our founders evidently did not truly believe that as slavery was a common practice and would not be abolished for nearly 100 years. These words were written more than 240 years ago and while we've come a long, long way, oppression still exists.
The fact is, kneeling during the National Anthem is one's right. Like it or don't like it, that too is one's right.
They were officially the confederate states of America an unrecognized republic. Jefferson Davis was a Mississippi Senator. His VP was from Georgia Stephens who later served as governor for a short while until he died. He gave the Cornerstone speech "...the negro is not equal to the white man, slavery, subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition." Much of the CS constitution replicated the US constitution.
Confederates did not die for our Stars & Stripes. They had their own Stars & Bars.
They used to do it before every show at the Garden State/PNC Arts Center.
Remember when Frank Sinatra threatened to kick Sinead O’Connor’s ass after she refused to take the stage if they played it?
Later that summer, I saw Elvis Costello and The Attractions there. He decided to have a little fun with it. They had an announcement that said “Ladies and Gentlemen, Mr Costello requests that you please stand for the playing of the National Anthem of France.” ..... which they played.... but our anthem DID follow.
Exactly we all emigrated some country to come here. We all have the freedom to leave this country. Yet none of us do. There's something incredible about that because we are not forced to stay here. So if we're all that unhappy why do we stay? And if America is such a racist country why do some still want to come? When my family fleed Italy in the late 1800's, they risked their lives to come here. Now to hop from country to country is not a risk at all. For my ancestors that's how bad Italy must've been at that time that they risked it all to come here. I'm eternally grateful for that risk they took. What those stars and stripes represented to them, I can never comprehend. I can look at the stars and stripes through their eyes and still believe we need less racism in this country. White priviledge is the term being thrown around like crazy lately. Imagine what people in other countries say. They're probably not saying white priviledge, they're probably saying American priviledge.
We can still be better, but America is not as bad as people want to make it out to be.
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Trump criticizing China so Hollywood crowd and limousine liberals don’t want to criticize
China because they would be agreeing with Trump an unforgivable sin.Put your investments
in cash if sleepy Joe wins cause this market likely crashes in 2021 and even NY TIMES WILL
have trouble blaming Trump for the crash.
China because they would be agreeing with Trump an unforgivable sin.Put your investments
in cash if sleepy Joe wins cause this market likely crashes in 2021 and even NY TIMES WILL
have trouble blaming Trump for the crash.
Oh yeah? You think every confederate soldier was a slave owner do you? I am willing to bet that there were those who fought in the Mexican American War that were of the believe of states rights who reasonably may not have had pro slave thoughts who fought for the south. Just like there were southern unionists and those that lived in the south who decided to fight for the union.
Propose it. As long as you’re prepared to lose a ton of money there should be no issue. As I said in another post there’s a significant part of the population who love all things God and country. They’ve just proved to themselves they can go 3 months without sports. I imagine they’ll go back to the 1950s lifestyle, doing more yard work, at the school yard playing sports themselves, and ignoring the tube. Just remember it’s easier to add things than take things away.
lmao if u think those people pick the national anthem over football i have a bridge to sell you.
those people couldnt even prove to go 3 months without haircuts. the national anthem before a game is a tradition that actually has no real purpose to the event. what else do we play the national anthem before?
this was proven easily false, and backed by common sense. NFL reach increased by 5 million people during the kaepernick kneeling year.
the ratings were still far away #1 and dipped slightly due to the reason all sports are dipping, its 2020 and the traditional tv viewing has changed.
the ratings were perfectly fine and in no way were impacted by the kneeling.
LOL!!
I saw varying accounts for this which go both ways. Some also attributed the ratings impact to the focus on the presidential election, which was higher than ever back in 2016.
If you are correct on what you stated, it should be a somewhat easier call for the owners to make.
That's nice that you feel that way. It also doesn't have anything to do with the fact that you're not in a position to explain to anyone how they ought to protest. Is their purposely controversial display to call attention to racial inequality inconvenient to you? They didn't run it by you first? Since it's likely going to return in much greater frequency when sports return, this is the time for you to get ahead of it and make sure every athlete is perfectly clear on how and in what way they ought to publicly register their anger and frustration. There never seems to be a "right" way to do it, so perhaps you provide a proper list of protest dos and don'ts.
