If it was that simple, they would've done it already. This is not some new theory he came up with that no one has previously discussed.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...al-anthem-kneeling-football-column/878677002/
Have you changed your opinion?
- Thread starter Halldan1
- Start date
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...al-anthem-kneeling-football-column/878677002/
There’s a significant percentage of fans in attendance at every NFL game that “disrespect the national anthem.” Would people be outraged if an NFL player was on his phone during the national anthem? Because I see plenty of people texting, tweeting, instagramming when it’s being played. Not even mentioning the others drinking their beer, talking to one another, eating a hot dog, etc.
Why do you feel this is about telling people what to do? Showing respect for something like a countries flag, or a religious symbol, are human-level elements. They are shared beliefs that are pretty much universal. You’re not creating some unjust rules to say that people should be respectful of them.
I have no problem if they want to kneel before or after, but it’s not the right format to do it during the anthem. Being respectful of others isn’t creating a limitation on anybody.
It's dividing our country, and has nothing to do with solving the problem. Just negative noise and a waste of time. Ideas, solutions, creative thinking and exchange of thoughts solve problems. If Kneeling, raising hands, protesting and advertising slogans were to bring people together to solve the problem maybe I could close my eyes during the Anthem, but so far none of these things have changed anything. For me I will always stand and remember the sacrifice made for our freedom.
Why is the American flag currently flying at half mast? Silly piece of cloth?
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anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0
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This is correct. And the places where the Confederate constitution differed from the US constitution was exactly in the sections that enough of the founders refused to concede to the Southern slavers.
Yes compromises were made to get the nation founded that no one today, two centuries later, would agree to. But the Constitution never explicitly recognizes the institution of slavery and that was the issue that finally, 70 years later, led to the split (specifically the Southern slavers were furious that US congress prevented slavery in the western territories.)
if you want to see what the US Constitution would have looked like if it would have legitimized slavery, just read the Confederate constitution.
Yep compromise of 1850 postponee civil conflict for a decade, also had the kansas nebraska act and allowed maine to be a free state and missouri to be a slave state.
While we talk about how the flag represents the sacrifices others have made for our country, in the name of freedom its kind of hard to appreciate it as a person of color when you are not afforded the same rights that they fought for.
Can somebody put a video collage together of all the police officers that have been murdered? Might be a double album.
Which rights are they not afforded? You want to say police target them, that’s one thing. But you’re saying they’re not afforded the same rights. Are black people not allowed in the press? Are black people not allowed to own a gun? Are black people not allowed the right to a fair trial? Can they not plead the 5th? Can they vote? Am I living in a different country than you? Here in the United States of America, the one that has Stars and Stripes on it’s flag, I’m absolutely sure people of color have the same rights as white people. If I’m mistaken please let me know.
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anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0
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anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0
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Please enlighten us what rights are not afforded to African Americans in this country? I am curious.
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anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0
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no, he doesn’t want to have a rebuttal or a conversation back. You’re mistaken, and that’s that.
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anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0
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You are correct that all citizens have equal rights ie legal (fair trial), politically (voting), etc. IMO, the underlying issues are key, things like do most African Americans have access to a good education? (Urban and inner city school systems are awful.). Do African Americans have access to decent housing? (They have been redlined out of good neighborhoods for decades up through the 1970s. Zoning ordinances have done the job since then.) Do African Americans have access to quality health care? (Ever been in an inner city hospital?). Add some of these things up and you would have to ask if many African Americans have access to an economic future?
A lot of this would apply to poor people of all races and ethnicities. But the underlying issues are there. And despite progress in some areas, the US has a long way to go.
Are those issues that are unique to the African American community or the poor in general?
As I state clearly in my post many of the same issues would apply to poor people of all races snd ethnicities. However, we can’t disregard the facts of the black experience in America. Geez, it took another century after the Civil War before African Americans could be guaranteed that they would be able to be exercise their right to vote.
Opportunity zones, prison reform and low unemployment were a good start. Now if we could have legislation encouraging families to stay together and chartered schools as a choice for a better education. Where there is a will there is a way. Folks living in cities where services are poorly run need options. We are failing the poor at the expense of unions. Teacher unions are against chartered schools because they expose the waste in our public school systems. Police unions allow bad cops to stay on duty. Follow the money monopolies exist everywhere today taking advantage of the poor. You don’t like your cable company where are you going to go. Monopolies are built on the backs of the poor. People are angry and protesting what happened but this runs deeper than George Floyd in my opinion.
I don’t like it but there are some who will do it. Ok so when I see them I’m going to hope for the day that they don’t feel the need to call attention. It’s all very sad and disappointing that we’re still at this point in our society.
I don’t want to be political as I enjoy this board as it is a diversion from life. So I will make one post only.
Two things can be true simultaneously:
(1) 99%+ of cops are honorable and seek to execute justice but there are doubtless bad actors, some of whom are racist but this is a tiny percentage;
(2) there is a form of systematic racism against blacks and it is in the educational system, inner-city schools are a disaster and have been for 40+ years. Unions/politicians will not allow school choice or adequate charter schools. Many people on this board attended private grade or high school or their children did, this is a huge and growing advantage.
The most egregious systematic racism against blacks is the intentional placement of abortion mills in poor cities— and promotion of the “service”. Black babies are very disproportionately aborted; in fact, more black babies are aborted in NYC than are born. Planned Parenthood was founded by Margaret Sanger, an advocate of eugenics, who wanted to abort undesirable babies to “enhance” the gene pool in the US. This practice today is never publicly discussed in such terms but the result is quietly and murderously achieved. This is an evil beyond words yet it is never discussed. I find the BLM sound bite ironic and very depressing. I expect and hope that in the future the evil of abortion will be rightly viewed as a sin against humanity, but especially against blacks as it may well be viewed as a greater evil than slavery.
Let us all pray for our country. Peace.
Two things can be true simultaneously:
(1) 99%+ of cops are honorable and seek to execute justice but there are doubtless bad actors, some of whom are racist but this is a tiny percentage;
(2) there is a form of systematic racism against blacks and it is in the educational system, inner-city schools are a disaster and have been for 40+ years. Unions/politicians will not allow school choice or adequate charter schools. Many people on this board attended private grade or high school or their children did, this is a huge and growing advantage.
The most egregious systematic racism against blacks is the intentional placement of abortion mills in poor cities— and promotion of the “service”. Black babies are very disproportionately aborted; in fact, more black babies are aborted in NYC than are born. Planned Parenthood was founded by Margaret Sanger, an advocate of eugenics, who wanted to abort undesirable babies to “enhance” the gene pool in the US. This practice today is never publicly discussed in such terms but the result is quietly and murderously achieved. This is an evil beyond words yet it is never discussed. I find the BLM sound bite ironic and very depressing. I expect and hope that in the future the evil of abortion will be rightly viewed as a sin against humanity, but especially against blacks as it may well be viewed as a greater evil than slavery.
Let us all pray for our country. Peace.
You missed what’s underlying in all of that. The family dynamic. We blame the education system as if the poorer towns education system teaches 1+1=3. That’s not the case. But if I came home and thought 1+1=3, my parents would take the time to correct me. They wouldn’t wait for the education system to do it. Education starts in the home. Housing, it’s tough for a young couple of all colors to get a house today. How many people are living with their family because of student debt. It’s insane. The housing market is a problem for all people. People of all colors are not getting married and having kids because of finances. Healthcare. Please I go to the emergency room I have a thousand forms to fill out. I have yet to see someone without insurance get worse treatment than I got.
Yes we can put together that and we can also open the records of all the police officers and their code of conduct, complaints and everything else.
The harsh and unfortunate reality is the police harassment is in some cases justified but most cases, unwarranted BS.
Why aren't the police officers required to wear a body camera and have it on at all times..????......this eliminates the BS and bogus police reports filed.
You do realize there was an official police report filed in the George Floyd murder, which had so many holes in it, it's not even funny.....or did the cell phone video lie???
The harsh reality for those who don't like the people complaining about police brutality comes down to a class state. It's not a race issue....if it was about race, then there wouldn't be reports about Floyd's arrest record etc. ....the way Floyd was killed, is (to some) somehow more justified because he had a criminal record.....it seems that it only matters to some people if the person arrested had some sort of affiliation to someone else....
I bet $1000 that if it was one of the Seton Hall basketball players harassed by cops and he complained, fans here would be against police brutality claims, because he plays for your university or alma mater....but my guess is, you probably don't give a 2nd thought about any black players once they stop scoring baskets and their thoughts on life outside of the Prudential Center or MSG during the Big East tournament.....
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Turn the question around. Something tells me you would only care about the cop if it was a Seton Hall player who got into law enforcement who had a brick thrown at his face, frozen water bottles thrown at him, or even worse shot.
Just my personal opinion, if any Seton Hall athlete black or white were ever accused of sexual misconduct, I would want them looked into in the toughest sense. Sadly there have been hints thrown out even on these message boards that's not the case. I honestly hope that's not true.
Over the course of time, we have put legislation in place to provide opportunities and address those issues as you've discussed. When it comes to education (K-12), isn't this a local issue that needs to be prioritized and addressed by local leadership (Mayor, council, school board, etc.)? FWIW, I have been participating with a number of local business leaders on a 20 year plan for the community and as part of that commissioned a study to assess the current environment, perceptions and survey the community at all levels. One of the two major priorities has come back addressing the local education system as the inner-city schools have a high drop-out rate. Even though the local economy is strong and the leading indicators positive, there is a recognition and need to address this, because of the long term negative effects if you don't.
I don't think there's any training for any human being for having people throw things at a person, be screamed at for 6, 8, 10 or 12 hours straight, in full uniform, with no break.
Let's just say that the onus of change, lands with the people who are so afraid to associate with minorities in general. If many grow up in the tristate area, it's a little more progressive than other parts of the country. I have traveled to places in the 90s for financial education work to "power plants" in the Southeast....places like Mobile, AL, Pensacola FL, Meridian MS, Biloxi, Gretna LA for Southern Company....Southern is a powerhouse equivalent of PSEG In the southeast.
My best experience was in Biloxi, with a very cool white guy, who I consider a friend before he passed away a couple of years ago...he was a high school classmate and teammate of Brett Favre. We talked sports non stop and during some downtime, he took me and my other friend/coworker from NJ, on a tour of the Southern Miss campus, football stadium etc...
During my week there, during dinner after our employee meetings, it was him who told me, "don't travel alone with Rich (my co-worker ) to these areas....which wasn't shocking since I'm aware of the history of Mississippi (obviously).
During this week, after about the 8th lunch or break or dinner together, it was my friend who was our host, who admitted "your a different type of black guy"....it wasn't meant with malice or anything racist. It was basically surprised that I was able to conduct and get some very "skeptical " white males to participate in their own retirement plans. The employees were used to having to "not trust" their own Human Resources departments, to handle the employees retirement accounts, so they hired us to be the group to do it.
I had many of their employees call me Yankee, where in "New Yuork" I lived....i had to tell them I lived in New Jersey, which parts of NJ, looked just like the areas they lived in....the look of shock and horror they had on their faces that I told them NJ was different than New York....
Some asked "how did I learn so much about retirement accounts because I was so young?? I told them I had a college degree from Rutgers and that my company trained and taught me about these topics....and that I also knew SEC football and who Ole Miss, Southern Miss and State played and lost too....once that topic came up, they loosened up a bit.
The point of the story isn't about the hyped up media pushing both sides of the argument....both news cycles PROFIT, off ratings, sensationalism and negative energy of distrust.
At the same time, it was up to me to build up trust to get these people to listen to someone who wasn't white, was from "up north", and had to audacity to talk football with them. And if people want to not be challenged or scared of conversations, not sure what to tell you.
It comes down to right and wrong. And the story of how things are, comes down to American people in general, prefer to ignore bad things and highlight good things as a way with "dealing with problems ".
And ignoring things is OK, but isn't going to change anything...i have more friends who have lost children to overdoses of opiods, than I do have people killed by police officers. But if I had $100 for every friend of mine that's brown/black/Latino, pulled over by a cop, I would have retired a long time ago. Probably before I got to age 35.....
Using that logic, it has NEVER been real, even before the introduction of African slaves to the continent.
That's a great story, I just don't see what any of it has to do with the question I asked. If the cop was a Seton Hall player how would you feel?
I coached baseball in Newark for 10 years I have stories of being judged. I had parents and teenagers tell me they knew more about baseball than I did on the simple grounds their family came from DR or Puerto Rico. Believe me white people get judged too. It took 2-3 years for the parents to really accept me and I was volunteering to help out their children. The teenagers I was working with they accepted me when they saw improvement they never saw before. They saw that I didn't want to just be down there throwing batting practice. I wanted to get each of them one on one, break down their swing, show them their swing on video, do drills to fix the holes in their swing and then eventually when batting practice came there was a real difference. But it took a lot of 1 on 1 time and proving myself through persuasion to earn their respect. I had one player on the team tell me the parents are talking about when I hear them say blanco. All I could do was laugh and continue forward. To this day, and I stopped coaching 7-8 years ago, I still get a phone call seeing how from some who just want to see how I'm doing. I get the process as much as anybody. Like you, I had to earn some respect. I didn't just walk in and say here I am and was accepted immediately. I guarantee you part of initial skepticism was my skin color. The cops and the people need to earn each others respect. You can't expect cops to walk through a high crime area and expect everyone to be good? I also happen to be that guy who gets pulled out of line at the airport all of the time. I don't know if I'm perceived to be that rich white guy with drugs or what but it happens a lot. Never once have I complained because I have nothing negative on me. Some scumbags tried to take out our country by planes. It's the price I am willing to pay to get on a plane. They can pull me out of line every damn time if the intention is to keep all of us safe.
My feelings exactly. These athletes are making millions because we fans pay ridiculous amounts of money to watch them play the game/to be entertained. I do not want to be subjected to their personal predjudices. I RESPECT their right to demonstrate their feelings. They are FREE to peacefully demonstrate, march, and post on social media. And they should cherish that freedom. But please not on my dime.
And one more thing while i'm fired up about this topic. It pissed me off big time when at the SHU/Georgetown game only one player (among the whole team including Patrick Ewing and staff) held his hand over his heart. That player was McClung. Obviously the other guys and coaches feel they need to show solidarity with the BLM movement. And that's fine. Just show some respect for the WE ARE ALL AMERICANS MOVEMENT. And these coaches should be setting that example to these players who are on free rides at a private and an esteemed university. If Ewing wonders why he's loosing McClung maybe there's an issue of exclusion in his lockerroom. Maybe there are sensitivities that go beyond basketball.
Agree with the family dynamic. But again what creates that dynamic? First, a lousy local educational system leading to under skilled young adults coming out of school. Did you attend a dysfunctional high school? And I would suspect that you came home to a stable family in a solid neighborhood with parents who had solid educations. Second, very little economic investment in inner city areas which results in few employment opportunities for those low skilled graduates. When a neighborhood is anchored by a government social agency you can be sure it is a low opportunity area. Third, terrible social policies enacted decades ago that created incentives that have encouraged the break up of African American families.
Not sure we disagree on what the problems are but IMO the black experience in America is not the same as for other ethnic groups. Every economic statistic supports that fact. Virtually every ethnic group coming to America faced daunting challenges and I would put my own family story in there. However if we can’t agree that the challenges faced by African Americans in the US have been unique, severe and brutal then perhaps we should agree to disagree and move on.
When do we start distinguishing African-Americans that are descendants of slaves and immigrants that have arrived from Somalia, Ethopia, Nigeria, post-slavery? How do we distinguish children from interracial marriages? If we continue to focus on just the color of our skin, don't we continue to create labels that don't take into account someone's origin and the challenges they faced?
Given how you have couched this, I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on how we improve things.
