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Illegal Immigration and Crime

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400SOAVE

All American
Jan 24, 2009
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This was ignored by the media, but there were two hearings in Congress this month that detailed the huge number of crimes being committed my illegal immigrants. Many have been released after being convicted and have committed murder.

As always, there's somebody from the church and/or clergy assisting and encouraging illegal immigration. Don't jump on me for posting the facts. Watch the hearings and educate yourself.



http://www.c-span.org/video/?408785-1/house-committee-investigates-illegal-immigration-crime
 
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There is, of course, only one candidate for president who talks about this issue:

 
An April press release from the Border Patrol in response to a NYT editorial:

An excerpt:

Although apprehensions are down, the type of individual we are apprehending today is entirely different. Approximately 20 percent of the illegal immigrants that we apprehend are criminal aliens. Criminal aliens are illegal immigrants who have been convicted of a felony and have been deported to their home country. We have deported, in many cases multiple times, yet they are right back on our doorstep.

http://www.bpunion.org/index.php/newsroom/press-releases/1825-response-to-ny-times-op-ed-piece
 
Regardless of your political persuasion, I don't understand people excusing people coming here illegally. It just is not OK. Get here, follow the rules, and become a citizen. I feel awful for desperate people who feel coming here illegally is there only option. But you can't rob a bank if you are poor and if you cross the border illegally, you are breaking the law. And libs misinterpret the 14th amendment like gun nuts do the 2nd, which to me is as outdated as the third.
 
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I'm as dyed in the wool progressive as it gets on almost every issue, but I've always seen it as you do 75.

That being said, I don't care much about this issue, and certainly don't vote based on it like so many right wingers do. It's really not a big deal & is just a wedge issue the right uses to get kooks like 400 all fired up. Everything posted above are just racial scare tactics to gin people up. Sure if you're here illegally and get caught you gotta get out, but this nonsense isn't going to keep me up at night.

We face much much bigger issues. Bums me out that people get bogged down in this crap when all the environmental issues we are facing now and the worse ones in the future require the worlds immediate attention. Instead we scream and shout about our borders, some crazed terrorists halfway around the world that occupy some useless specs of desert & what Jenner thinks about Donald Trump. Sad state of affairs.
 
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Potentially funniest post ever. Complains about scare mongering tactics on illegal immigration then rolls out the tiring scare mongering tactics of environmental issues, LOL!!

All of those dire predictions of the environmental fascists have never come to pass. Weren't we suppose to be under water by 2015? Spend billions of billions of dollars based on useless treaties that aren't treaties at all to maybe change the temperature by 0.01 degrees?

Sad state of affairs.
 
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Repubs are more afraid of the effect of environmental issues on biz than they are of environmental issues. The whole world seems to agree with the libs on this, but not the conservs in the USA.

The Climate siders can be overbearing.

When billions are at stake, companies and some scientists will follow the money - see the tobacco industry.
 
Instead of using the words "climate change" (which naturally puts people at odds) why not just focus on "environmental responsibility" which is exactly what we should be doing. I think the extreme views on both sides are silly, and quite frankly this is a second tier issue as far as I'm concerned. Need to pay attention and have a strategy, but not be consumed by it.

Economy and national security IMHO are 1 and 1A. Everything else is just deck chairs....
 
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We certainly need to be more responsible on environmental issues. I agree to an extent. But every time a treaty gets signed did you ever notice who pays the most by far? America. I travel all over the world and China is polluting the crap out of our world and people aren't bitching about them like they bitch about us. I've been in China four times and you cannot believe the pollution there with the exception of Hong Kong which is not terrible but if the wind is blowing from the mainland it can get bad. You don't even want to go outside in some cities. Glass houses man.

Illegal immigration costs the economy billions each year, pushes your HC costs up significantly, your property taxes to educate the school kids. It hits everyone in the pocketbook very hard and causes a lot of safety issues for communities and for the illegals themselves who are afraid to report serious issues. My bro-in-law got broadsided by an illegal a few years ago who had no license or insurance and the police essentially had no right to hold the guy even though he totaled his car and hurt him to the extent his back will never be right again. They never found the guy again. It's a huge issue that some don't truly understand. We are the most charitable country by far but this type of charity is simply illegal. We are also a country of immigrants but as far as I know my immigrant relatives had to wait to get a sponsor, sailed through Ellis Island and came her legally - big difference.

And what is really funny is have you traveled to Canada recently? They are extremely tough at their border and noone is talking about it because everyone thinks Canada is this bastion of liberals. Completely untrue. If you drive into Canada they will search your entire car. But when you come back to the US it's no problem at all. Come on in... When you fly into Canada now they ask lots of questions and you better have your paperwork in order. When Canadians come into the US it's no problem at all. I've had two contractors that work for me sent back and one detained for an entire day because her letter was not appropriate for them and we were doing work for the Canadian Govt? They detained her over night and paraded her through the airport with guns to ensure she got on her flight the next day (she is 62 yrs old and all of 110 pounds). But you will never hear these stories in the press. We are freakin idiots and the world laughs... Others care about their borders but they do it in ways that are smart and don't publicize it. The way Trump goes about it is not smart but don't kid yourself its a serious issue. And did I even mention terrorism above - no which is a real risk.
 
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HALL85 said:
Instead of using the words "climate change" (which naturally puts people at odds) why not just focus on "environmental responsibility" which is exactly what we should be doing. I think the extreme views on both sides are silly, and quite frankly this is a second tier issue as far as I'm concerned. Need to pay attention and have a strategy, but not be consumed by it.

Economy and national security IMHO are 1 and 1A. Everything else is just deck chairs....
Click to expand...
The word should never have been changed. The fight is against the pollution of the world. Who is in favor of pollution?

And fwiw, the earth can survive a bad economy, the conquering of America by its foes, but the extinction from the earth of a few insects could be a death warrant for humankind.
 
Bobbie Solo said:
I'm as dyed in the wool progressive as it gets on almost every issue, but I've always seen it as you do 75.

That being said, I don't care much about this issue, and certainly don't vote based on it like so many right wingers do. It's really not a big deal & is just a wedge issue the right uses to get kooks like 400 all fired up. Everything posted above are just racial scare tactics to gin people up. Sure if you're here illegally and get caught you gotta get out, but this nonsense isn't going to keep me up at night.

We face much much bigger issues. Bums me out that people get bogged down in this crap when all the environmental issues we are facing now and the worse ones in the future require the worlds immediate attention. Instead we scream and shout about our borders, some crazed terrorists halfway around the world that occupy some useless specs of desert & what Jenner thinks about Donald Trump. Sad state of affairs.
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The only kook here is you.

There have been thousands of murders, rapes and kidnappings and that's a fact.

The felonies add up to hundreds of thousands of crimes. It's all right there in the two congressional hearings.

Here's another case from the Washington Post:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/89-stab-and-slash-wounds-excised-liver-test-jurors-endurance-in-murder-trial/2016/04/30/7fa7c81e-0e5b-11e6-8ab8-9ad050f76d7d_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-more-top-stories_no-name:homepage/story

Any day of the week, there's a new article telling the story about another crime.

You can do your predictable name calling. But you cannot change the facts. Got that, you kook.
 
Seton75 said:
The word should never have been changed. The fight is against the pollution of the world. Who is in favor of pollution?

And fwiw, the earth can survive a bad economy, the conquering of America by its foes, but the extinction from the earth of a few insects could be a death warrant for humankind.
Click to expand...
No one is "for" pollution and we obviously need to have appropriate regulations, but all of the "energy" that good spent on these useless treaties makes very little if not any impact. As 112 said, China is a great example. I've been to Shanghai and choked on the pollution. All the buildings have a gray soot coating. I'm not going to vote for the next president based on his position on the tse-tse fly extinction.

Is anyone really going to care where the closest recycling center is when the next domestic terrorist drops a bag of ricin from a drone?
 
I agree with 400 and 112 on the illegal issue. But even if crime was not an issue after they got here, it still is not OK to break the law to get here. I also agree the problem with the immigration treaties is a country like China ignores it. Of course, we also pay more than our share on international defense, like NATO, and have for decades.

We dumped our shit into the ocean for years and thought it was ok. The Hudson upstate used to run whatever color that the truck mfg plant was painting that week . Business cannot be trusted to police itself, and the public can be easily convinced to this issue . Talk about the pie in the sky hope of solar or wind, make a funny insult about protecting the yellow baked owl.

But this ain't bullshit, it is critically important to our future. And business will spends whatever it takes (like Tabacco did) to make us think we aren't negligent in our treatment of mother earth.
 
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Seton75 said:
I agree with 400 and 112 on the illegal issue. But even if crime was not an issue after they got here, it still is not OK to break the law to get here. I also agree the problem with the immigration treaties is a country like China ignores it. Of course, we also pay more than our share on international defense, like NATO, and have for decades.

We dumped our shit into the ocean for years and thought it was ok. The Hudson upstate used to run whatever color that the truck mfg plant was painting that week . Business cannot be trusted to police itself, and the public can be easily convinced to this issue . Talk about the pie in the sky hope of solar or wind, make a funny insult about protecting the yellow baked owl.

But this ain't bullshit, it is critically important to our future. And business will spends whatever it takes (like Tabacco did) to make us think we aren't negligent in our treatment of mother earth.
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Where did I say it was bullshit and where did I say business should police themselves. This is exactly what government should be doing, but stop the extremism that we see from both sides.
 
Only a real kook would ignore the tens of thousands of Americans who are murdered, raped, kidnapped, robbed, etc. by illegal aliens.

You are truly the embodiment of a kook
 
SPK, no one ever said that. You're just making shit up as usual to prove your point. Almost all projections about the truly dire circumstances facing the world bc of rising oceans and rising temps talk about 2040, 2050 and beyond. But keep diverting if u want.

400, I think I need more research done. Can you point in the direction of more random crimes by random people that clearly point to the downfall of society?

Why don't you just say what you really want to say. You know you're itching to.
 
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We get it 400.

Some illegal immigrants commit heinous crimes... we don't need an article for each instance... but crime rates among illegal immigrants are not significantly higher than other demographic groups. In fact the number of illegal immigrants in the us almost quadrupled between 1990 and 2010, which was a period of continuous reduction in violent crime.

You have to realize that many illegal immigrants that are here are only here to provide a better life for their family. I am not justifying their action to get here, but use some logic. The far majority of them want to lay low, go to work for wages which Americans would not accept for longer hours than Americans would accept.

and some... yes.. .are absolutely criminals will intentions to do harm just like some Americans have those same intentions.
 
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Section112 said:
Illegal immigration costs the economy billions each year, pushes your HC costs up significantly, your property taxes to educate the school kids.
Click to expand...

If that were really true, we would have solved the problem by now. We could fix the problem fairly easily if we really wanted to.

The real issue is that we benefit from illegal immigrants. We have cheap labor and we exploit it the crap out of it.
If all illegal immigrants were gone tomorrow, everything becomes more expensive. From farmed goods to construction. Our economy would stall as the middle class loses buying power. Not to mention the fact that illegal immigrants have paid in in excess of 100 billion into social security which is money they will never collect.
 
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I wonder who is going to do all the jobs that our native born Americans that are on unemployment and welfare are just too good to do when we kick out all the illegal immigrants? Who is going to be picking the grapes in Napa Valley? Who will be working in restaurants? Who will be doing landscaping? You know that hard work that our lazy ass American trash won't and can't do?

Give me a hard working illegal immigrant over the garbage that I see who pass for Americans.

As far as criminality, yes there is a criminal element which exists in all aspects of society. That just gets publicized a lot more. From what I see, an overwhelming amount of the crime in this state is done by Americans.

I don't believe in open borders. But I also don't believe in spending billions of dollars on a wall. Newsflash to Trump! They already have tunnels to get to the US. The wall won't do a damn thing except attract unknowledgeable voters to the Trump cause. This is the simplistic type of thinking that does our country no good. This is a very complex problem with no easy solutions.
 
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Merge said:
If that were really true, we would have solved the problem by now. We could fix the problem fairly easily if we really wanted to.

The real issue is that we benefit from illegal immigrants. We have cheap labor and we exploit it the crap out of it.
If all illegal immigrants were gone tomorrow, everything becomes more expensive. From farmed goods to construction. Our economy would stall as the middle class loses buying power. Not to mention the fact that illegal immigrants have paid in in excess of 100 billion into social security which is money they will never collect.
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That is only part of it and a very narrow view to support your beliefs. Surely many benefit from the hard work of immigrants and they do work very hard and do many of the manual labor jobs - my assertion never argued with that at all. And that does not make it right either. They are still here illegally and without their labor we would have to figure it out and we would. It would not stall the economy either.

The large majority of illegal immigrants pay nothing into Social Security as they are paid in cash. The fact is they are here illegally and are also unsafe in many ways as many of the laws we have to keep workers safe do not apply to them. The costs to the economy are substantial and that is fact. The economies lose billions in payroll taxes, social security and much more. And folks like my brother in law a law abiding US citizen got totally screwed and the perpetrator walked scot free even though he broke the law being here and broke the law driving without a license or insurance. If that happened to a US citizen there would be legal consequences but not to an illegal. There existence here solves some problems (cheap labor) but also causes many more. I'm not a proponent of throwing them out (like you paint me to be I'm sure). Instead we need to slow the flow of illegals clean up our systems and find ways for the ones that are here to get on the books and pay taxes like everyone else even if it means I have to pay more for certain jobs. We also need to protect our borders from illegal folks entering that want to hurt us. There are plenty of them out there too. Noone seems to care about law and order anymore. It's more about supporting their BS position. Its simply illegal that they enter. What the F don't folks understand about that?
 
HALL85 said:
Where did I say it was bullshit and where did I say business should police themselves. This is exactly what government should be doing, but stop the extremism that we see from both sides.
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IMO the tse tse fly reference belittles the importance of the issue. It is a line used over and over about the libs not wanting X event that would have great economic impact cause they want to protect the spotted owl.

But, " where did I say business should police themselves. This is exactly what government should be doing". Really. Should I call you my fellow traveler...lol. Since when do conservs acknowledge that govt should be policing biz.
 
The last line of Section's post above is the hard thing to figure out for me:

"Its simply illegal that they enter. What the F don't folks understand about that?"
 
Section112 said:
That is only part of it and a very narrow view to support your beliefs. Surely many benefit from the hard work of immigrants and they do work very hard and do many of the manual labor jobs - my assertion never argued with that at all. And that does not make it right either. They are still here illegally and without their labor we would have to figure it out and we would. It would not stall the economy either.
Click to expand...

It's not a very narrow view. This issue is very low on my political priority list.
I asked myself why we haven't done something to fix it and researched the issue a bit and walked away knowing why. Politicians don't care about this issue because they know they are a net economic benefit and doing anything whether it be amnesty or kicking them all out will hurt our economy.

Here is a brief snapshot of some benefits.
http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-b...984-illegal-immigrants-benefit-the-us-economy

You assertion was that they cost the economy billion each year which is what I took issue with.
 
Section112 said:
The costs to the economy are substantial and that is fact. The economies lose billions in payroll taxes, social security and much more.
Click to expand...

"For the year 2010,1 we estimate that the excess of tax revenue paid to the Trust Funds over benefits paid from these funds based on earnings of unauthorized workers is about $12 billion."

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/NOTES/pdf_notes/note151.pdf

Section112 said:
And folks like my brother in law a law abiding US citizen got totally screwed and the perpetrator walked scot free even though he broke the law being here and broke the law driving without a license or insurance.
Click to expand...

I agree they should be held accountable somehow but I had a drunk driver total my two cars in front of my house and then into my house. No insurance and I was stuck with my deductibles. Sometimes shit happens from shitty people. That is not an immigration issue.

Section112 said:
Instead we need to slow the flow of illegals clean up our systems and find ways for the ones that are here to get on the books and pay taxes like everyone else even if it means I have to pay more for certain jobs.
Click to expand...

Again. The issue is easy to fix. The reason it has not been fixed is that politicians do not want to fix it. They want to take advantage of the economic benefit.

I agree with you. We should acknowledge they are all here. Get them on the books and stop more from coming in, but it will absolutely hurt our economy when that happens.
 
Seton75 said:
IMO the tse tse fly reference belittles the importance of the issue. It is a line used over and over about the libs not wanting X event that would have great economic impact cause they want to protect the spotted owl.

But, " where did I say business should police themselves. This is exactly what government should be doing". Really. Should I call you my fellow traveler...lol. Since when do conservs acknowledge that govt should be policing biz.
Click to expand...
Maybe because I don't identify myself as either and look at each issue on its own trying to think what is best for this country not for a party. I would like to see our government let companies compete, but act as strong regulators that can enforce and penalize/jail guilty parties. I think it was a joke that we paid bonuses to the banks with the bail out and that no one went to jail. I would like to see more transparency and competition in healthcare with better policing and enforcement for fraud and abuse. So maybe we should be in the same car....at least for a few stops....lol
 
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