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Interesting Article/MIT Study

Nothing like a bunch of vaccinated and distanced politicians looking pathetic in their masks tonight at the Capitol.

America has lost its mind. It's almost to the point where I feel some people actually want us to live like this forever.
 
So how do you square that with the first paragraph of the article and the fact that states with mask mandates have not done any better than those without?

Very simply, and the exact same as I have explained to you previously.
Infection = exposure x time

A mask adds a percentage variable.

Infection = (masked%)exposure x time

A masked population reduces how much exposure you have to the virus increasing the amount of time it would take for you to be exposed to the virus before you get infected.

Don't give me some baloney about population density either. Look at Michigan. Big surge and masked up like no other. It's the restrictions that create the conditions for increased spread.

I'm starting to wonder if Covid has the long term side effect of losing your ability to reason, and you are correct that you did have it last year. That would make sense.

So caught up on trying to be right rather that you ignore countless studies saying you are wrong.

America was founded on freedom. We should remember that.

... which has absolutely nothing to do with a debate about the effectiveness of masks in regards to the spread of a virus.
 
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Why does covid continue but the flu was at record lows this winter?

Masks WORK for the flu (droplet virus). They don't do a hill of beans for covid (airborne virus).

I thought Trump Derangement Syndrome was bad. CDS is worse. Previously normal and reasonable people are paralyzed by fear of a virus with a 99%+ survival rate.
 
Why does covid continue but the flu was at record lows this winter?

Masks WORK for the flu (droplet virus). They don't do a hill of beans for covid (airborne virus).

I thought Trump Derangement Syndrome was bad. CDS is worse. Previously normal and reasonable people are paralyzed by fear of a virus with a 99%+ survival rate.
Dark winter

watch main stream National tv right now

rightly still railing on trump and talking about how president has had to spend the first months of presidency fixing Orange man’s failure to roll out a vax
 
Government policies are supposed to be for the greater good. Instead we have policies designed around a literal fraction of the population (0.17%) passing away from a respiratory virus and restricting those at little to no risk. Causing economic and mental hardship for millions of more people than will ever die or even have complications from the virus. Common sense went out the window in March 2020.
 
Government policies are supposed to be for the greater good. Instead we have policies designed around a literal fraction of the population (0.17%) passing away from a respiratory virus and restricting those at little to no risk. Causing economic and mental hardship for millions of more people than will ever die or even have complications from the virus. Common sense went out the window in March 2020.
Coming from someone who saw issues first hand with family and friends, included deceased and further including too young category (RIP all and this is still a very serious issue we are dealing with) .....agreed
 
Why does covid continue but the flu was at record lows this winter?

Masks WORK for the flu (droplet virus). They don't do a hill of beans for covid (airborne virus).

I thought Trump Derangement Syndrome was bad. CDS is worse. Previously normal and reasonable people are paralyzed by fear of a virus with a 99%+ survival rate.

lol... What kind of derangement syndrome is it to completely ignore every study that says you're wrong?

Last year, if you started to feel sick... Did you go to work?
Of course you did. Everyone did.

This year, you know who is going to work when they are sick? No one.
You know parents have to sign a form every morning that confirms their child is not sick? You know that if a child starts to display any symptom of being sick, they get sent home?

How do you not recognize that this year is quite a bit different than any other year.

Flu does not have the asymptomatic transmission that Covid does.
 
50% of flu infections are asymptomatic. Try again.

It's a disgrace that parents have to sign some stupid form saying that. Again, common sense out the door. I've never met anyone who goes to work when sick either before or after 2020.
 
lol... What kind of derangement syndrome is it to completely ignore every study that says you're wrong?

Last year, if you started to feel sick... Did you go to work?
Of course you did. Everyone did.

This year, you know who is going to work when they are sick? No one.
You know parents have to sign a form every morning that confirms their child is not sick? You know that if a child starts to display any symptom of being sick, they get sent home?

How do you not recognize that this year is quite a bit different than any other year.

Flu does not have the asymptomatic transmission that Covid does.
No the stay home thing started a decade ago and I’d say 25% followed

parents have to what???

bird flu hit America. Move on and stop acting like it’s the only thing that matters now that trump lost. In that regard act like China.

before you come back with I’m mean recognize I’ve seen death from this naturally occurring virus
 
No the stay home thing started a decade ago and I’d say 25% followed

During a global pandemic people were hyper aware of any symptom that came up. People were self isolating this year if they felt sick more than any other year.

parents have to what???

A wellness screening saying the child is not sick. I also have to fill one out to go into my office.

bird flu hit America. Move on and stop acting like it’s the only thing that matters now that trump lost. In that regard act like China.

I have moved on. The country is about ready to move on as well.

efore you come back with I’m mean recognize I’ve seen death from this naturally occurring virus

I'm sorry for your loss.
 
During a global pandemic people were hyper aware of any symptom that came up. People were self isolating this year if they felt sick more than any other year.



A wellness screening saying the child is not sick. I also have to fill one out to go into my office.



I have moved on. The country is about ready to move on as well.



I'm sorry for your loss.
Ohhhh you’re talking about the kids that are actually in person learning.
If parents don’t fill out a nurse takes vitals. I don’t get point you’re making here.

the country is ready to move on. President has an economy to save!
 
the country is ready to move on. President has an economy to save!
Isn't it ironic how they create an entirely self-inflicted "crisis" just in time for a new guy to come in and take credit for the bounce back that would naturally occur anyway?
 
Ohhhh you’re talking about the kids that are actually in person learning.
If parents don’t fill out a nurse takes vitals. I don’t get point you’re making here.

That the steps we are taking to mitigate the spread of Covid are extremely effective at mitigating the spread of the flu.

09 doesn’t want to agree that makes reduced the spread of Covid because they didn’t eliminate the speed of Covid... despite every scientific study saying masks help.

The fact is that if people were not wearing masks, the spread would have been worse.
 
Isn't it ironic how they create an entirely self-inflicted "crisis" just in time for a new guy to come in and take credit for the bounce back that would naturally occur anyway?
600,000 Americans are dead and millions worldwide, and you’re using quotes around crisis...

Unbelievable. I agree it’s about time to open up but we didn’t have a choice. Had we done nothing it would have been worse.
 
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600,000 Americans are dead and millions worldwide, and you’re using quotes around crisis...

Unbelievable. I agree it’s about time to open up but we didn’t have a choice. Had we done nothing it would have been worse.

It's not a crisis. It's a politically motivated "crisis" in 2021. The only true crisis period might have been about a month from about mid-March to mid-April 2020 during the initial surge. Since then it's just been an illness circulating at slightly higher levels than something like the flu would and taking its natural course through the country no matter what we do. Anything we "did" was theater to provide the illusion of "doing something" for the weak minded who rely on government for everything and then scream and complain when nothing is "done."

People now have natural and artificial immunity.
 
Purely from a healthcare system perspective, what 09 is saying is correct. Hospitals have been operating at pre-Covid conditions since July/August of last year. There has been no stress to our health system since then.

We also learned a lot in those first few months about ways to treat patients with the disease. Our healthcare system can only do so much if one, the patient has severe comorbidities to begin with and, and two, they don’t seek care until it’s too late.

Looking back, if China had been forthcoming with information; if we had locked down our borders, restricted travel between hotspot areas and contact traced, it would have bought us 4-5 months of valuable time and saved tens, probably hundreds of thousands of lives, and not overburdened the healthcare system early on. Those strategies would have been far more effective than a mask mandate.
 
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Looking back, if China had been forthcoming with information; if we had locked down our borders, restricted travel between hotspot areas and contact traced, it would have bought us 4-5 months of valuable time and saved tens, probably hundreds of thousands of lives, and not overburdened the healthcare system early on. Those strategies would have been far more effective than a mask mandate.

Right. Preventing it from getting here in the first place and adding more surveillance measures would have been very helpful... but lets be real. The spread in the fall wasn't because we didn't have enough information from China, it wasn't because we didn't know how to do surveillance.
 
Can only lol when people just dismiss covid as nothing when 600,000-700,000 in our own country will die from it.
 
Purely from a healthcare system perspective, what 09 is saying is correct. Hospitals have been operating at pre-Covid conditions since July/August of last year. There has been no stress to our health system since then.

We also learned a lot in those first few months about ways to treat patients with the disease. Our healthcare system can only do so much if one, the patient has severe comorbidities to begin with and, and two, they don’t seek care until it’s too late.

Looking back, if China had been forthcoming with information; if we had locked down our borders, restricted travel between hotspot areas and contact traced, it would have bought us 4-5 months of valuable time and saved tens, probably hundreds of thousands of lives, and not overburdened the healthcare system early on. Those strategies would have been far more effective than a mask mandate.

Always appreciate your perspective. You can't prevent everyone from getting sick, you just need to ensure you have the ability to treat them if they need it. We have that in spades and it never has been a major issue during this entire event.

Agree on inbound travel restrictions. Would have been far more impactful and less intrusive on American civil liberties than locking down healthy US citizens.
 
Can only lol when people just dismiss covid as nothing when 600,000-700,000 in our own country will die from it.

It's not nothing, but it's also nowhere near as scary as what the media and politicians would have you believe. Don't you see what they're doing? It's a classic case of using a "crisis" to expand political power and push agendas through.

US deaths are 574,000 as of today, not 600-700k. The US has 331 million people as of the latest census data. The incredibly low number of deaths relative to our population and even to those who have contracted the virus should be celebrated as an achievement of containment and resilience. Instead the media makes it out to be some kind of avoidable mass tragedy. Thanks to China, it was not avoidable. I'm a numbers guy and US deaths are a drop in the bucket compared to what it could have been.
 
The problem is that no matter what the data said, you downplayed it. Getting most of this fairly wrong along the way.

3,700+ cases is *nothing* in a country of 327 million. You will have clusters of this breaking out locally and other cases spread around various areas. Even if the number of cases reaches 1 million (a far, far cry from 3,700), you realize that's only 0.3% of the population, right?

You might be a numbers guy, but I'm not even sure what that means when your numbers and thresholds constantly change. Hell, your "drop in a bucket" just 10x'd...
 
You love to take old posts out of context, I'll give you that. You're skilled at finding old posts on here that mean nothing, congrats.

And yes, numbers change when you change the observation period from a month to a year-plus.
 
Completely in context. You were downplaying the risk of the virus spreading in the US when it got here.

A numbers guy should do some backtesting on their analysis.
 
Purely from a healthcare system perspective, what 09 is saying is correct. Hospitals have been operating at pre-Covid conditions since July/August of last year. There has been no stress to our health system since then.

We also learned a lot in those first few months about ways to treat patients with the disease. Our healthcare system can only do so much if one, the patient has severe comorbidities to begin with and, and two, they don’t seek care until it’s too late.

Looking back, if China had been forthcoming with information; if we had locked down our borders, restricted travel between hotspot areas and contact traced, it would have bought us 4-5 months of valuable time and saved tens, probably hundreds of thousands of lives, and not overburdened the healthcare system early on. Those strategies would have been far more effective than a mask mandate.
for what its worth i know a covid ward nurse who has said there were many times her hospital was at capacity over the last few months in CT. its case by case across hospitals apparently. now, do they send them away to another hospital? id hope ao
 
Right. Preventing it from getting here in the first place and adding more surveillance measures would have been very helpful... but lets be real. The spread in the fall wasn't because we didn't have enough information from China, it wasn't because we didn't know how to do surveillance.
I think you are wrong on that point.....if we had taken those stricter measures to prevent the spread initially, bought valuable time and had a better focused treatment plan, then that would translate into less spread in the fall. We would have also learned valuable information re: tracing early on which would have helped the CDC and state governments put appropriate travel restrictions in place. We literally had no data to make those decisions so governors were just making stuff up based on what they thought was right (which we now know was a recipe for disaster).
 
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for what its worth i know a covid ward nurse who has said there were many times her hospital was at capacity over the last few months in CT. its case by case across hospitals apparently. now, do they send them away to another hospital? id hope ao
A hospital being "at capacity" and being overwhelmed are two different things. Hospitals in certain areas at certain times of the year run at capacity....regardless of COVID. In addition, most hospitals are part of multi-facility systems and after the initial surge in the spring, most designated one or two facilities to receive COVID patients. Since June, any hysteria you saw on the MSM about hospitals being overwhelmed was pure horse shit. Yes, there were a handful (like rural hospitals that only had 15-20 beds, etc.), but to make it look like a national healthcare crisis was just more fake news.
 
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I think you are wrong on that point.....if we had taken those stricter measures to prevent the spread initially, bought valuable time and had a better focused treatment plan, then that would translate into less spread in the fall. We would have also learned valuable information re: tracing early on which would have helped the CDC and state governments put appropriate travel restrictions in place. We literally had no data to make those decisions so governors were just making stuff up based on what they thought was right (which we now know was a recipe for disaster).
how does better treatment plan translate into less spread? two different things.
 
how does better treatment plan translate into less spread? two different things.
Because if you had fewer people exposed or having the disease early on, you would have fewer infected people transmitting the disease.
 
thats not treatment...
Part of a treatment plan is isolating the patient to prevent spread. Remember, Cuomo was sending infected patients that were treated in a hospital back to nursing homes, where they........transmitted the disease to other residents and care givers?
 
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600,000 Americans are dead and millions worldwide, and you’re using quotes around crisis...

Unbelievable. I agree it’s about time to open up but we didn’t have a choice. Had we done nothing it would have been worse.
I don’t disagree on March-May shutdown in our area, generally

After that it’s been a disgrace

Gov opens tax generators and kicks small businesses and children among others in the balls and the auditor doubles down every chance he gets.

People were/are going to get it no matter what. Reasonable precautions, sure. But that’s not what was done.
 
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I don’t disagree on March-May shutdown in our area, generally

After that it’s been a disgrace

Gov opens tax generators and kicks small businesses and children among others in the balls and the auditor doubles down every chance he gets.

People were/are going to get it no matter what. Reasonable precautions, sure. But that’s not what was done.
Government picked the winners and losers without any science involved. One industry that's been decimated is the private transit/tour bus industry. Of the 3,000 companies that were in business before, only 2,200 remain...wiped out 30% of the industry, most family run, multi-generational businesses.
 
Part of a treatment plan is isolating the patient to prevent spread

Which does not work with asymptomatic spread.

Cuomo was sending infected patients that were treated in a hospital back to nursing homes, where they........transmitted the disease to other residents and care givers?

Were they contagious when they were released from the Hospital? Studies show most transmission occurs very early after infection.

I don't disagree that they should have figured something else out, but you're leaping to a conclusion there they they were transmitting to others when they got back. Realistically, they were infected by staff at their facility and it was spreading regardless of if they came back or not.
 
Part of a treatment plan is isolating the patient to prevent spread. Remember, Cuomo was sending infected patients that were treated in a hospital back to nursing homes, where they........transmitted the disease to other residents and care givers?
wait i thought half of the people who have it are asymptomatic or dont even need treatment? right. cuomo had that one move but generally weve been saying to isolate the entire time.

the point of spreading deals more with people who ARENT being treated. thats the point.
 
Government picked the winners and losers without any science involved. One industry that's been decimated is the private transit/tour bus industry. Of the 3,000 companies that were in business before, only 2,200 remain...wiped out 30% of the industry, most family run, multi-generational businesses.

That is terrible, but that kind of is science based.

During a global pandemic, where a virus is spreading from person to person, there is probably not going to be a large demand to sit on a crowded bus.

It's unfortunate, but that wasn't the government picking a winner and loser.
 
Could the end be near?





I predict he'll announce all business restrictions will be phased out by May 21 with the exception of the indoor mask mandate. Remember, he's a politician who wants to get re-elected and he needs a big summer at the shore for that to happen.
Let's hope so. Also, the party has either now gotten or laid the groundwork for the wealth transfers, all of which gets tied to COVID somehow. There may be one more they want to try, but once that passes hopefully things proceed. I'm still skeptical the public school unions - at least in states like NJ/NY -- won't try to leverage this more come fall for different benefits or packages, with partial closings, shorter days and/or remote instruction being part of that. My kid's will likely be in Catholic School by that point but I'll feel for my neighbors if it happens.
 
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That is terrible, but that kind of is science based.

During a global pandemic, where a virus is spreading from person to person, there is probably not going to be a large demand to sit on a crowded bus.

It's unfortunate, but that wasn't the government picking a winner and loser.
It was, because were the airlines got massive subsidies the bus industry got virtually nothing.
 
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wait i thought half of the people who have it are asymptomatic or dont even need treatment? right. cuomo had that one move but generally weve been saying to isolate the entire time.

the point of spreading deals more with people who ARENT being treated. thats the point.
Really don’t understand the point you were trying to make. The reason why it spread so fast early on is because we had so many unforeseen super spreader events early on. Like the guy in New York that came back from China, went to a party and infected a whole bunch of people. The town of New Rochelle was a hotspot early on. Throwing a net over that city would have prevented the spread early on.

There is a reason many island nations that lock down their borders early on have had a much lower impact and slower spreading.
 
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