JFK: One Day in America on Nat Geo
- Thread starter NYShoreGuy
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That would require thoughts of your own. Copying and pasting is more your thing. No thinking required.
Thanks, this is always how I've seen it for the most part. It was a team up between LBJ, the CIA and the mob. Between the three of them, they had the motive, means, opportunity, and all benefited from Kennedy's assassination. What I'm not sure of and have always wondered about, was how involved was the Secret Service? That's something I'd like to explore further.
Ruby straight up shooting Oswald in a such a public manner, knowing he is either getting caught or worse, is always the strangest aspect of the whole thing for me.
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There is a fair amount of writing suggesting Ruby was mentally ill and acted alone. There are of course contrary writings suggesting the mental illness claim was part of an overall conspiracy. One such conspiracy is the mob killed JFK and then ordered the mob connected Ruby to execute Oswald.
For some reason, the world is fascinated by conspiracy theories. I'll bet lotsa people believe Dan Brown's story that a French cryptologist is a descendant of Jesus.
Cue the theme from Twilight.
There is a fair amount of writing suggesting Ruby was mentally ill and acted alone. There are of course contrary writings suggesting the mental illness claim was part of an overall conspiracy. One such conspiracy is the mob killed JFK and then ordered the mob connected Ruby to execute Oswald.
For some reason, the world is fascinated by conspiracy theories. I'll bet lotsa people believe Dan Brown's story that a French cryptologist is a descendant of Jesus.
Cue the theme from Twilight.
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Years ago I read the two definitive books on the 1989 Battleship Iowa explosion. Juicy conspiracy theories abounded including a Hollywood movie starring James Caan.
To this day, the official Navy stance is the cause could not be determined. For a while the Navy tried to assign the cause to an intentional act by a gay sailor who staged the explosion as an accident in order to have an insurance policy pay his shipmate lover.
The Sandia National Lab did a extensive investigation and concluded that the cause could not be determined with certainty. However, they did conclude the likely cause was the powder kegs being "over rammed" into the turret.
The problem with this conclusion is that the Navy would have to admit that for 50+ years every 16 inch gun that was every fired was at risk of an over-ram and they were unaware of the danger.
Conspiracy theories like this and JFK and other have common elements such as:
Lindbergh kidnapping
Jimmy Hoffa
Amelia Earhart death
Clinton body count
Various elections
Stonehenge
Lusitania
Aspects of the Titanic (Read about the rivets)
Chappaquiddick
Area 51
Jesus and Mary Magdalene
Princess Diana death
etc.
To this day, the official Navy stance is the cause could not be determined. For a while the Navy tried to assign the cause to an intentional act by a gay sailor who staged the explosion as an accident in order to have an insurance policy pay his shipmate lover.
The Sandia National Lab did a extensive investigation and concluded that the cause could not be determined with certainty. However, they did conclude the likely cause was the powder kegs being "over rammed" into the turret.
The problem with this conclusion is that the Navy would have to admit that for 50+ years every 16 inch gun that was every fired was at risk of an over-ram and they were unaware of the danger.
Conspiracy theories like this and JFK and other have common elements such as:
- A proposed cover-up
- The likely cause is boring and lacks excitement, intrigue and sizzle.
- The likely cause embarrasses a person or an organization (i.e. the secret service and the Navy)
- Key evidence was destroyed
- Key witnesses are deceased
- In the absence of 100% irrefutable evidence other more exciting alternative theories remain viable.
- People can make money creating and selling the alternative theories.
- Even when 100% irrefutable evidence does exist, people make definitive claims on the cause. In other words, people don't want to accept that we will never know with certainty.
Lindbergh kidnapping
Jimmy Hoffa
Amelia Earhart death
Clinton body count
Various elections
Stonehenge
Lusitania
Aspects of the Titanic (Read about the rivets)
Chappaquiddick
Area 51
Jesus and Mary Magdalene
Princess Diana death
etc.
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You bring up Donohue yet his theory is that there was no conspiracy to kill the President. We have hundreds of people at the scene.
We have an eyewitness of Oswald’s actions which is the following. :
Steamfitter Howard L. Brennan, standing across from the School Book Depository building, had noticed a man at the sixth-floor corner window; while waiting for the motorcade to arrive, Brennan had watched him leave the window “a couple of times.” After Brennan heard a shot, he looked up again: “And this man that I saw previous was aiming for his last shot. Well, as it appeared to me, he was standing up and resting against the left window sill, taking positive aim, and fired his last shot. As I calculate, a couple of seconds. He drew the gun back from the window as though he was drawing it back to assure hisself that he hit his mark, and then he disappeared.” Brennan stopped a police officer, gave a description of the man: slender, about 5 ft. 10 in., in his early 30s. The description was flashed to all Dallas patrol cars. Brennan later picked Lee Harvey Oswald out of a police lineup.
The shot is not impossible and experts testified that it was not a particularly difficult shot. Moreover, The people who shot the Oswald’s rifle fired it for the first time without any practice shots. It’s a myth that it’s an impossible shot.
Summary of experts.
For a rifleman situated on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building the shots were at a slow-moving target proceeding on a downgrade in virtually a straight line with the alinement of the assassin's rifle, at a range of 177 to 266 feet.761 An aerial photograph of Dealey Plaza shows that Elm Street runs at an angle so that the President would have been moving in an almost straight line away from the assassin's rifle.762 (See Commission Exhibit No. 876, p. 33.) In addition, the 3° downward slope of Elm Street was of assistance in eliminating at least some of the adjustment which is ordinarily required when a marksman must raise his rifle as a target moves farther away.763
Four marksmanship experts testified before the Commission. Maj. Eugene D. Anderson, assistant head of the Marksmanship Branch of
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the U.S. Marine Corps, testified that the shots which struck the President in the neck and in the head were "not ... particularly difficult." 764 Robert A. Frazier, FBI expert in firearms identification and training, said:
From my own experience in shooting over the years, when you shoot at 175 feet or 260 feet, which is less than 100 yards, with a telescopic sight, you should not have any difficulty in hitting your target.
° ° ° ° ° °
I mean it requires no training at all to shoot a weapon with a telescopic sight once you know that you must put the crosshairs on the target and that is all that is necessary.765
Ronald Simmons, chief of the U.S. Army Infantry Weapons Evaluation Branch of the Ballistics Research Laboratory, said: "Well, in order to achieve three hits, it would not be required that a man be an exceptional shot. A proficient man with this weapon, yes." 766
The effect of a four-power telescopic sight on the difficulty of these shots was considered in detail by M. Sgt. James A. Zahm, noncommissioned officer in charge of the Marksmanship Training Unit in the Weapons Training Battalion of the Marine Corps School at Quantico, Va.767 Referring to a rifle with a four-power telescope, Sergeant Zahm said:
... this is the ideal type of weapon for moving targets ... 768
° ° ° ° ° °
... Using the scope, rapidly working a bolt and using the scope to relocate your target quickly and at the same time when you locate that target you identify it and the crosshairs are in close relationship to the point you want to shoot at, it just takes a minor move in aiming to bring the crosshairs to bear, and then it is a quick squeeze.769 ° ° ° ° ° °
I consider it a real advantage, particularly at the range of 100 yards, in identifying your target. It. allows you to see your target clearly, and it is still of a minimum amount of power that it doesn't exaggerate your own body movements. It just is an aid in seeing in the fact that you only have the one element, the crosshair, in relation to the target as opposed to iron sights with aligning the sights and then aligning them on the target.770
Characterizing the four-power scope as "a real aid, an extreme aid" in rapid fire shooting, Sergeant Zahm expressed the opinion that the shot which struck President Kennedy in the neck at 176.9 to 190.8 feet was "very easy" and the shot which struck the President in the
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head at a distance of 265.3 feet was "an easy shot." 771 After viewing photographs depicting the alinement of Elm Street in relation to the Texas School Book Depository Building, Zahm stated further:
This is a definite advantage to the shooter, the vehicle moving directly away from him and the downgrade of the street, and he being in an elevated position made an almost stationary target while he was aiming in, very little movement if any.772
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Where have I been in the conspiracy camp? I want to read up on LBJ though just because it sounds interesting.
Keep even just a small open mind and watch JFK: The Smoking Gun. You of all people should find that fascinating.
John, agree on the close proximity but to have that accuracy having to re-focus each time, that quickly?
I have an open mind. But I am working off evidence. If there is any real evidence of proof, I would like to hear it. I understand there are questions, but people have made (I am not saying you) it as a definite conspiracy and that no way Oswald was the lone shooter. The facts that we have is that all evidence points to exactly that Oswald was the lone shooter. Everything else is not evidential. I certainly am not buying LBJ conspiracy. One thing about conspiracies this grand, it is very difficult to keep secret, especially after 60 years.
Ok. I don't know anything about Hunt's death bed confession. However, I find it hard to believe anyone who was part of Watergate burglary was part of the greatest conspiracy to kill an American President. Was any of his allegations check out? Any proof?
First let me say that I am in no way stating that I know exactly what happened.
To answer your specific question, there is a scenario that says it was a makeable shot(s).
The timespan of the 3 shots was never conclusively determined. It ranges from 7.1 to 8.3 seconds.
One scenarios is that the first shot missed and shots two and three hit. The high end estimates of the duration was 8.3 seconds.
Shot one occurs at basically second zero, He therefore has 8.3 seconds to fire the next two shots. Set a timer for 8.3 seconds to get sense of just how much time that is.
The testing shown in this video is often referenced:
Despite some flaws, they were getting 2-3 hits in 5.2 seconds.
For starters, some of the shooters are firing off-hand i.e. not resting the rifle on a surface. For those resting the rifle, they are doing it on a hard surface. They are also bare handed and not tied in with the strap. Resting on a softer base reduces the bounce and lets the rifle stay in position better. Check this link out: https://tinyurl.com/yw97hfsl
Take a look at this video from a timing perspective:
So yes, the shot is quite makeable. Again, I am not saying that I know Oswald acted alone, etc. There is plenty out there to refute that. We will likely never know with certainty. I do say that is possible he did it and got the two shots on target in that time frame.
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This is a highly technical analysis.
Of note is the one Photograph/Diagram they show.
Note the angles from the grassy knoll (green lines). If the kill shot came from the grassy knoll angles shown, the results shown in the Zapruder film would have been different.
If you read any of it, go to page 8 and read the conclusions.
The gist of the paper is:
Also note the paper mentions having a resting surface for the rifle.
www.acsr.org
Of note is the one Photograph/Diagram they show.
Note the angles from the grassy knoll (green lines). If the kill shot came from the grassy knoll angles shown, the results shown in the Zapruder film would have been different.
If you read any of it, go to page 8 and read the conclusions.
The gist of the paper is:
- Oswald's location was ideal
- The first shot was the most difficult giving plausible explanation why it missed.
- The second shot was easier and hit center mass of JFK's body.
- The third shot was the easiest and was the head shot.
Also note the paper mentions having a resting surface for the rifle.
Sniper Target Tracking Analysis of John F. Kennedy Assassination
US President John F. Kennedy was assassinated by a sniper while riding in an open limousine in Dallas, Texas on 22 November 1963.
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