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Maher/Trump Dinner

Great monologue, he makes great points and is very reasonable voice in a world filled with hate. A lot of what Trump says and does are distractions, but as Bill says he’s not getting the morning briefing so he is not getting the full story. None of us really knows exactly what’s happening around the world. One thing is for certain Joe Biden was not calling the shots during his administration so we really cannot blame him, whereas Trump has put himself front and center to take the blame if we fail as a country. He knows he has 12 months to change the direction of the country or be voted out of office at mid term elections. He’s governing at lightning speed like it or not and has a great chance to become one of our greatest presidents if he can drive inflation down and lower our deficit. The current administration is running like a business, people are being held accountable in the board room to get things done. He’s holding himself accountable as well to deliver what he told the American people. Pretty amazing he’s actually getting things done instead of just talking about them.
 
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Two old white loudmouth reactionaries from the New York metro area can get along, who could have predicted?

One thing is for certain Joe Biden was not calling the shots during his administration so we really cannot blame him, whereas Trump has put himself front and center to take the blame if we fail as a country. He knows he has 12 months to change the direction of the country or be voted out of office at mid term elections. He’s governing at lightning speed like it or not and has a great chance to become one of our greatest presidents if he can drive inflation down and lower our deficit. The current administration is running like a business, people are being held accountable in the board room to get things done. He’s holding himself accountable as well to deliver what he told the American people. Pretty amazing he’s actually getting things done instead of just talking about them.
We're talking about President Donald Trump here? Donald Trump has never held himself accountable for anything. The buck stops with literally anyone or anything else. I have no idea where you're getting this impression that he's selflessly putting himself on the line for the country. I'm pretty sure all of his reasons for wanting to be the president again were entirely self-serving (e.g., power, revenge on his enemies, enrich himself and his friends, keep his legal woes at bay, etc.).
 
Racist much? What’s Maher’s motivation to make those comments?
I should have noted that they are also both very wealthy.

Plenty of reasons for Maher to make these comments. 1) He is self-centered and craves the attention; 2) Like Trump, he loves to stick it to his perceived liberal adversaries; 3) it's mutually beneficial, as it gives both himself and Trump some crossover appeal with the other's audiences. Maybe they both really wanted to play nice for Kid Rock, who knows?

But let's not forget possibly the biggest reason Maher made these comments - it's because he agrees with Trump on many things now. He dedicated almost an entire paragraph of his long-winded monologue about this. I'm not sure who this is supposed to make uncomfortable, as you suggested in your first post. To me, it makes perfect sense that these guys would get along.
 
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Maher is a real Democrat. Level-headed, pragmatic, socially liberal. Nothing wrong with that. It's sad that the majority of that once proud party has morphed into a bunch of quacks over the last 10 years. Remember, Trump was a Democrat for most of his life. They probably have a lot more in common than most think.
 
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I should have noted that they are also both very wealthy.

Plenty of reasons for Maher to make these comments. 1) He is self-centered and craves the attention; 2) Like Trump, he loves to stick it to his perceived liberal adversaries; 3) it's mutually beneficial, as it gives both himself and Trump some crossover appeal with the other's audiences. Maybe they both really wanted to play nice for Kid Rock, who knows?

But let's not forget possibly the biggest reason Maher made these comments - it's because he agrees with Trump on many things now. He dedicated almost an entire paragraph of his long-winded monologue about this. I'm not sure who this is supposed to make uncomfortable, as you suggested in your first post. To me, it makes perfect sense that these guys would get along.
Maher has his own brand and doesn’t need to play nice for ratings. Does he agree with Trump or is it that he disagrees with some of the Democratic strategies?

And, yes, there are people that were whining about the dinner before it even happened.
 
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Bill Maher is a real democrat. He considers himself liberal. Not a progressive. He can see issues from both sides. I don’t know where this idealogical purity comes from but it is the ruination of good government. I have met Trump on a couple of occasions. And he can be funny and charming. It’s what Maher saw. But that is his mask.

Maher stood up for his principles which is not easy to do face to face at the White House. And that is important. I don’t think there is anything wrong with what Maher did. He didn’t genuflect. But he didn’t have to rage. Nothing wrong with that.
 
Maher also uses history and facts in his monologues. Someone sent me the YouTube of his takedown of Chappell Roan regarding October 7th. Excellent piece.

Have never met Trump, but know a few people who have and they say the same thing you did (and Maher). Saint Barnabas Medical Center used to have their annual golf outing at Trump national for several years. Trump himself was involved personally with the hospital executives and very gracious about supporting it.
 
Two old white loudmouth reactionaries from the New York metro area can get along, who could have predicted?


We're talking about President Donald Trump here? Donald Trump has never held himself accountable for anything. The buck stops with literally anyone or anything else. I have no idea where you're getting this impression that he's selflessly putting himself on the line for the country. I'm pretty sure all of his reasons for wanting to be the president again were entirely self-serving (e.g., power, revenge on his enemies, enrich himself and his friends, keep his legal woes at bay, etc.).
It's rich to suggest that Trump wanted to run again to keep his legal woes at bay (???!!@?) The only reason he had those legal woes was that he went down the escalator at Trump Tower in 2015 and declared for the presidency. It's been ongoing ever since. Lawfare. I also like the way you framed your remark with "two old white loudmouths from New York". Can you be more typically trite (woke)?
 
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Maher also uses history and facts in his monologues. Someone sent me the YouTube of his takedown of Chappell Roan regarding October 7th. Excellent piece.
Well, I watched the video you referenced, and it was interesting how devoid of history and facts it was. No mention of the Nakba or Naksa. Bill seems to have a selective memory.

Very cynical for Mr. Religulous to support his argument with the Bible, as well. I guess it's okay to quote it when it works for you, but it's a work of fiction otherwise.

It mostly boiled down to "Hamas would throw you off a roof," which is a common talking point. It's a variation of "pinkwashing," suggesting Israel's stance on LGBT issues (or Hamas's retrograde views) somehow cancels out everything else Israel does.

It's crazy that, despite both Republicans and Democrats fully supporting Israel while it perpetrates a genocide and the western media refusing to talk about it at all, Israel's support among Americans is still collapsing.

 
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It's rich to suggest that Trump wanted to run again to keep his legal woes at bay (???!!@?) The only reason he had those legal woes was that he went down the escalator at Trump Tower in 2015 and declared for the presidency. It's been ongoing ever since. Lawfare. I also like the way you framed your remark with "two old white loudmouths from New York". Can you be more typically trite (woke)?
I guess I didn't realize Trump going down the escalator in 2015 caused him to rape E. Jean Carroll twenty years earlier. Or cheat on his wife and then pay the woman he slept with hush money and subsequently falsified business records to cover it up.

A unique point of view for sure.
 
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I guess I didn't realize Trump going down the escalator in 2015 caused him to rape E. Jean Carroll twenty years earlier. Or cheat on his wife and then pay the woman he slept with hush money and subsequently falsified business records to cover it up.

A unique point of view for sure.
swing and a whiff
 
Two old white loudmouth reactionaries from the New York metro area can get along, who could have predicted?


We're talking about President Donald Trump here? Donald Trump has never held himself accountable for anything. The buck stops with literally anyone or anything else. I have no idea where you're getting this impression that he's selflessly putting himself on the line for the country. I'm pretty sure all of his reasons for wanting to be the president again were entirely self-serving (e.g., power, revenge on his enemies, enrich himself and his friends, keep his legal woes at bay, etc.).
So funny you think I'm white because I have a Vince Lombardi moniker, no black person would use a white legendary coach as a moniker right? Blacks check a certain box for you. That my friend is the definition of racism. Bill Maher is absolutely right, comments like that really turn people off. I could be any nationality, you don't even know me but are making assumptions. You ain't black if you support Trump. Think about what you are saying.
 
Bill Maher is a real democrat. He considers himself liberal. Not a progressive. He can see issues from both sides. I don’t know where this idealogical purity comes from but it is the ruination of good government. I have met Trump on a couple of occasions. And he can be funny and charming. It’s what Maher saw. But that is his mask.

Maher stood up for his principles which is not easy to do face to face at the White House. And that is important. I don’t think there is anything wrong with what Maher did. He didn’t genuflect. But he didn’t have to rage. Nothing wrong with that.
Trump the business man was known for taking 90 days to pay and often times short paying invoices. I won some business at his casino but heard the terms and walked away. He can be a ruthless negotiator. However, my Aunt met him outside of one of his casinos in AC. She went up to him with my uncle and Trump spent a half hour and gave them both a tour. He could not have been nicer. Do I agree with everything he does no, but he is actively trying to correct some problems yes. We are not all going to agree on every outcome, but if they can cut waste and reverse spending to manageable levels that would be a good thing. If he fails he will be voted out of office, better to try and fail then not to try at all. You are exactly right in your assessment.
 
Well, I watched the video you referenced, and it was interesting how devoid of history and facts it was. No mention of the Nakba or Naksa. Bill seems to have a selective memory.

Very cynical for Mr. Religulous to support his argument with the Bible, as well. I guess it's okay to quote it when it works for you, but it's a work of fiction otherwise.

It mostly boiled down to "Hamas would throw you off a roof," which is a common talking point. It's a variation of "pinkwashing," suggesting Israel's stance on LGBT issues (or Hamas's retrograde views) somehow cancels out everything else Israel does.

It's crazy that, despite both Republicans and Democrats fully supporting Israel while it perpetrates a genocide and the western media refusing to talk about it at all, Israel's support among Americans is still collapsing.

I don't understand your view that what Israel is doing is genocide especially considering the entire history. How many times did the Arab and Palestinians attack Israel in a war? Israel has won every time, yet the Palestinians think no consequences should attach to that. Lest not forget the constant terrorist attacks from Munich 1972 Olympics to suicide bombers. The other thing is that Clinton had a great deal on the table for Palestine that would give Palestinians 90% of the land that they wanted. Yet Arafat said no. It was at that point I knew that the Palestinian people never wanted to coexist with Israel. Then finally, the people of Gaza elected a terrorist group to represent them a s government.

That same terrorist group hides behind innocent people as a shield. Hamas has purposely put Israel in a no win position. If they truly want to destroy Hamas, as I am sure you will even admit that is justified, innocent people will die by the thousands. Otherwise, Hamas flourishes and Israeli lives are killed and tortured. Hamas is at more at fault than the Israelis or the innocent Palestinans that die.

Now, I think Netanyahu is a bad guy and corrupt. And needs to go. But this narrative of supporting Hamas and the Palestinian people who are anti-American makes no sense to me. The demonstrations of pro-Palestinian after the terroristic attacks of October 7, is absolutely vile to see in this country.

As an aside, this colonizer argument of progressives is absolutely ridiculous. Oh the poor Aztecs who were a peaceful group of natives were slaughtered by the white man. No, the Aztecs were ruthless killers who sacrificed thousands for their gods and brutalized neighboring tribes. How do you think 500 Spaniards defeated a million people? The surrounding tribes hated the Aztec brutality so they joined Cortez. How did any group become the dominant tribe? It is because they killed and conquered other tribes. That is human nature.
 
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Trump the business man was known for taking 90 days to pay and often times short paying invoices. I won some business at his casino but heard the terms and walked away. He can be a ruthless negotiator. However, my Aunt met him outside of one of his casinos in AC. She went up to him with my uncle and Trump spent a half hour and gave them both a tour. He could not have been nicer. Do I agree with everything he does no, but he is actively trying to correct some problems yes. We are not all going to agree on every outcome, but if they can cut waste and reverse spending to manageable levels that would be a good thing. If he fails he will be voted out of office, better to try and fail then not to try at all. You are exactly right in your assessment.
No, Trump is known not to pay his contractual obligations. He would not work with big contractors bu preferred smaller contractors. Why? because he refused to pay the contract price and offered 50 or 60 cents on the dollar. He knew these contractors did not have the money or time to litigate it in court without going bankrupt. That is his real art of negotiation. It is called breaking contracts and using your wealth as a weapon in litigation.

Also, you think it is better to try and fail with the economy? He is dangerously close to wrecking an economy with policies that most experts are against and have failed in the past. ITs just out right stupid.
 
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I’m
Well, I watched the video you referenced, and it was interesting how devoid of history and facts it was. No mention of the Nakba or Naksa. Bill seems to have a selective memory.

Very cynical for Mr. Religulous to support his argument with the Bible, as well. I guess it's okay to quote it when it works for you, but it's a work of fiction otherwise.

It mostly boiled down to "Hamas would throw you off a roof," which is a common talking point. It's a variation of "pinkwashing," suggesting Israel's stance on LGBT issues (or Hamas's retrograde views) somehow cancels out everything else Israel does.

It's crazy that, despite both Republicans and Democrats fully supporting Israel while it perpetrates a genocide and the western media refusing to talk about it at all, Israel's support among Americans is still collapsing.

What are Americans views on Hamas? Do you think they are better than Israel?
 
I don't understand your view that what Israel is doing is genocide especially considering the entire history. How many times did the Arab and Palestinians attack Israel in a war? Israel has won every time, yet the Palestinians think no consequences should attach to that. Lest not forget the constant terrorist attacks from Munich 1972 Olympics to suicide bombers. The other thing is that Clinton had a great deal on the table for Palestine that would give Palestinians 90% of the land that they wanted. Yet Arafat said no. It was at that point I knew that the Palestinian people never wanted to coexist with Israel. Then finally, the people of Gaza elected a terrorist group to represent them a s government.
Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, a UN special committee and various UN experts, the International Criminal Court, the International Court of Justice, and a general consensus of genocide scholars say it's a genocide.

That same terrorist group hides behind innocent people as a shield. Hamas has purposely put Israel in a no win position. If they truly want to destroy Hamas, as I am sure you will even admit that is justified, innocent people will die by the thousands. Otherwise, Hamas flourishes and Israeli lives are killed and tortured. Hamas is at more at fault than the Israelis or the innocent Palestinans that die.
If you're concerned with Hamas using innocent people as human shields, you should know that the IDF uses Palestinians as human shields as a matter of policy. It's called the "Mosquito Protocol."


A former IDF soldier said last month that the practice is institutionalized and almost every IDF platoon has a “a sub-army of slaves." That piece originally appeared in Haaretz (Israeli media does a much better job covering this than western journalists), but it's behind a paywall so here is a summarized version.


You have no concern about the completely asymmetric nature of the violence perpetrated between the government of Israel and Palestinians as you internalize media Freudian slips (you describe the killing and torturing of Israeli lives, whereas Palestinians simply "die.")

Israel broke the ceasefire and have continued blocking humanitarian aid into the Gaza strip while more atrocities happen every day. Fifteen paramedics were executed and buried in a mass grave with their crushed ambulance last month and hardly anyone in the western news media could be bothered to give a damn.

Now, I think Netanyahu is a bad guy and corrupt. And needs to go. But this narrative of supporting Hamas and the Palestinian people who are anti-American makes no sense to me. The demonstrations of pro-Palestinian after the terroristic attacks of October 7, is absolutely vile to see in this country.
"Supporting Hamas and the Palestinian people..." The vast majority of people in the U.S. are protesting a genocide that their government is financing and fully backing on behalf of a corrupt ethnostate, and compassion for innocent people being massacred. They're not supporting Hamas. Conflating the two groups as one in the same is just wrong.

You know who has supported Hamas? Benjamin Netanyahu and his Likud Party. They propped up Hamas to kneecap the Palestinian Authority and prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state. Hamas as it exists today wouldn't have happened without Israel's support.


As an aside, this colonizer argument of progressives is absolutely ridiculous. Oh the poor Aztecs who were a peaceful group of natives were slaughtered by the white man. No, the Aztecs were ruthless killers who sacrificed thousands for their gods and brutalized neighboring tribes. How do you think 500 Spaniards defeated a million people? The surrounding tribes hated the Aztec brutality so they joined Cortez. How did any group become the dominant tribe? It is because they killed and conquered other tribes. That is human nature.
I don't even know what to make of this argument. You started off saying that you don't understand why I think Israel is committing a genocide, and then you bring up an example from history of another civilization whose existence was annihilated. What is the purpose of this example? To excuse what Israel is doing? This seems like an odd example to pick for the "Israel is not doing a genocide" argument.

What are Americans views on Hamas? Do you think they are better than Israel?
I think you are unironically doing the "Do you condemn Hamas?" meme.
 
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You posted a survey about what Americans think of Israel to prove your point. It’s fair to ask the same question about Hamas, but you deflect.
 
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No, Trump is known not to pay his contractual obligations. He would not work with big contractors bu preferred smaller contractors. Why? because he refused to pay the contract price and offered 50 or 60 cents on the dollar. He knew these contractors did not have the money or time to litigate it in court without going bankrupt. That is his real art of negotiation. It is called breaking contracts and using your wealth as a weapon in litigation.

Also, you think it is better to try and fail with the economy? He is dangerously close to wrecking an economy with policies that most experts are against and have failed in the past. ITs just out right stupid.
IMHO yes its better to try and clean up waste, fraud and failure in the government. Loved what Clinton did in the 90's balancing our budget but we have gone off a cliff since then. Taking on China is absolutely necessary at this point and Trump is the best guy to do that. We 100% need to make our pharma in the USA, we 100% need to make chips and critical items in the USA. The global economy idea was a good one that has gone to far. If Trump can start driving our deficit down we will all be better off. We are the world's biggest customer, we need to start acting like it. We fail everyone fails. Look I know this is hard but we all need to take a step back and give him a chance, a year from now we can always vote Dems back into office and open the border back up and start stealing more money.
 
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Also need to look at these decisions from a national security perspective. Did we not learn from the pandemic and cyber attacks?

- Need to produce more sophisticated chips here.
- Need to be at the forefront in AI.
- Need to have a vibrant steel industry.
- Need to be at the forefront in weaponry.
- Need to be as energy independent as possible.
 
Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, a UN special committee and various UN experts, the International Criminal Court, the International Court of Justice, and a general consensus of genocide scholars say it's a genocide.


If you're concerned with Hamas using innocent people as human shields, you should know that the IDF uses Palestinians as human shields as a matter of policy. It's called the "Mosquito Protocol."


A former IDF soldier said last month that the practice is institutionalized and almost every IDF platoon has a “a sub-army of slaves." That piece originally appeared in Haaretz (Israeli media does a much better job covering this than western journalists), but it's behind a paywall so here is a summarized version.


You have no concern about the completely asymmetric nature of the violence perpetrated between the government of Israel and Palestinians as you internalize media Freudian slips (you describe the killing and torturing of Israeli lives, whereas Palestinians simply "die.")

Israel broke the ceasefire and have continued blocking humanitarian aid into the Gaza strip while more atrocities happen every day. Fifteen paramedics were executed and buried in a mass grave with their crushed ambulance last month and hardly anyone in the western news media could be bothered to give a damn.


"Supporting Hamas and the Palestinian people..." The vast majority of people in the U.S. are protesting a genocide that their government is financing and fully backing on behalf of a corrupt ethnostate, and compassion for innocent people being massacred. They're not supporting Hamas. Conflating the two groups as one in the same is just wrong.

You know who has supported Hamas? Benjamin Netanyahu and his Likud Party. They propped up Hamas to kneecap the Palestinian Authority and prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state. Hamas as it exists today wouldn't have happened without Israel's support.



I don't even know what to make of this argument. You started off saying that you don't understand why I think Israel is committing a genocide, and then you bring up an example from history of another civilization whose existence was annihilated. What is the purpose of this example? To excuse what Israel is doing? This seems like an odd example to pick for the "Israel is not doing a genocide" argument.


I think you are unironically doing the "Do you condemn Hamas?" meme.
The UN and Amnesty are a joke. Your inability to think for yourself is apparent. If Israel wanted to genocide anybody they would have done so. Do you also think the allies committed genocide against Germany and Japan?
 
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Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, a UN special committee and various UN experts, the International Criminal Court, the International Court of Justice, and a general consensus of genocide scholars say it's a genocide.


If you're concerned with Hamas using innocent people as human shields, you should know that the IDF uses Palestinians as human shields as a matter of policy. It's called the "Mosquito Protocol."


A former IDF soldier said last month that the practice is institutionalized and almost every IDF platoon has a “a sub-army of slaves." That piece originally appeared in Haaretz (Israeli media does a much better job covering this than western journalists), but it's behind a paywall so here is a summarized version.


You have no concern about the completely asymmetric nature of the violence perpetrated between the government of Israel and Palestinians as you internalize media Freudian slips (you describe the killing and torturing of Israeli lives, whereas Palestinians simply "die.")

Israel broke the ceasefire and have continued blocking humanitarian aid into the Gaza strip while more atrocities happen every day. Fifteen paramedics were executed and buried in a mass grave with their crushed ambulance last month and hardly anyone in the western news media could be bothered to give a damn.


"Supporting Hamas and the Palestinian people..." The vast majority of people in the U.S. are protesting a genocide that their government is financing and fully backing on behalf of a corrupt ethnostate, and compassion for innocent people being massacred. They're not supporting Hamas. Conflating the two groups as one in the same is just wrong.

You know who has supported Hamas? Benjamin Netanyahu and his Likud Party. They propped up Hamas to kneecap the Palestinian Authority and prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state. Hamas as it exists today wouldn't have happened without Israel's support.



I don't even know what to make of this argument. You started off saying that you don't understand why I think Israel is committing a genocide, and then you bring up an example from history of another civilization whose existence was annihilated. What is the purpose of this example? To excuse what Israel is doing? This seems like an odd example to pick for the "Israel is not doing a genocide" argument.


I think you are unironically doing the "Do you condemn Hamas?" meme.

What was October 7, 2023 to you?
 
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IMHO yes its better to try and clean up waste, fraud and failure in the government. Loved what Clinton did in the 90's balancing our budget but we have gone off a cliff since then. Taking on China is absolutely necessary at this point and Trump is the best guy to do that. We 100% need to make our pharma in the USA, we 100% need to make chips and critical items in the USA. The global economy idea was a good one that has gone to far. If Trump can start driving our deficit down we will all be better off. We are the world's biggest customer, we need to start acting like it. We fail everyone fails. Look I know this is hard but we all need to take a step back and give him a chance, a year from now we can always vote Dems back into office and open the border back up and start stealing more money.
First, if you loved what Clinton did, what Trump is doing is the antithesis of how Clinton did it. Second, Trump is not looking to drive the deficit down, he will increase it by $4 Trillion dollars according to the bill passed by the House. Third, you talk about chips? Well that was done by Biden with the CHIPS Act. Fourth, none of the above matters, if by reckless acts such as these blanket tariffs send the economy down the drain. You don't try and fail with a great economy. There is no consistency out of the White House. His policy is to throw everything up agains the wall and see what sticks. Unfortunately, there are consequences to that.
 
First, if you loved what Clinton did, what Trump is doing is the antithesis of how Clinton did it. Second, Trump is not looking to drive the deficit down, he will increase it by $4 Trillion dollars according to the bill passed by the House. Third, you talk about chips? Well that was done by Biden with the CHIPS Act. Fourth, none of the above matters, if by reckless acts such as these blanket tariffs send the economy down the drain. You don't try and fail with a great economy. There is no consistency out of the White House. His policy is to throw everything up agains the wall and see what sticks. Unfortunately, there are consequences to that.
but how do we make clear that things like countries coming to the table are not positives? I feel like we need to counter that message
 
Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, a UN special committee and various UN experts, the International Criminal Court, the International Court of Justice, and a general consensus of genocide scholars say it's a genocide.


If you're concerned with Hamas using innocent people as human shields, you should know that the IDF uses Palestinians as human shields as a matter of policy. It's called the "Mosquito Protocol."


A former IDF soldier said last month that the practice is institutionalized and almost every IDF platoon has a “a sub-army of slaves." That piece originally appeared in Haaretz (Israeli media does a much better job covering this than western journalists), but it's behind a paywall so here is a summarized version.


You have no concern about the completely asymmetric nature of the violence perpetrated between the government of Israel and Palestinians as you internalize media Freudian slips (you describe the killing and torturing of Israeli lives, whereas Palestinians simply "die.")

Israel broke the ceasefire and have continued blocking humanitarian aid into the Gaza strip while more atrocities happen every day. Fifteen paramedics were executed and buried in a mass grave with their crushed ambulance last month and hardly anyone in the western news media could be bothered to give a damn.


"Supporting Hamas and the Palestinian people..." The vast majority of people in the U.S. are protesting a genocide that their government is financing and fully backing on behalf of a corrupt ethnostate, and compassion for innocent people being massacred. They're not supporting Hamas. Conflating the two groups as one in the same is just wrong.

You know who has supported Hamas? Benjamin Netanyahu and his Likud Party. They propped up Hamas to kneecap the Palestinian Authority and prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state. Hamas as it exists today wouldn't have happened without Israel's support.



I don't even know what to make of this argument. You started off saying that you don't understand why I think Israel is committing a genocide, and then you bring up an example from history of another civilization whose existence was annihilated. What is the purpose of this example? To excuse what Israel is doing? This seems like an odd example to pick for the "Israel is not doing a genocide" argument.


I think you are unironically doing the "Do you condemn Hamas?" meme.
Notice, you do not mention anything about the two-state agreement that Clinton had Israel agreed to and the Palestinians shot it down. Are the Palestinians a people of peace considering their long history of violence?

I am not saying that some of the things Israel is doing in perpetrating the war is not wrong. I agree that some of it is wrong. But overall, the Palestinians have perpetrated a war against Israel for 60 years. War is ugly and horrible and that is the plain truth of it. There is no such thing as a clean war. And that is what you are seeking. What should the Israelis do? Not go after Hamas?

During 9/11 , America was attacked. I and most Americans could care less who was killed as collateral damage as long as we went after Al Qaeda and the Taliban. And to be sure many innocents died when we went into Afghanistan. It is not something we wanted but there was a bigger issue and that is the consequence of war.

Btw, did you forget that the Palestinians cheered when 9/11 happened????? They are not our Allies and friends.

The UN stated the war has characteristics of a genocide but not a genocide. Now let’s look to history, In WW2, which we all consider an honorable war to fight by the US, there was an ugliness there as well. Things that you would consider a war crime now. The US firebombed the civilian population in Tokyo killing over 80,000 people. Bombing of Dresden in which over 35,000 people died in 2 days. This is what war is. That is the reality of trying to win a war. There is not a war in history that civilians were not killed. And this is war which was started and continued by the Palestinians. Thus, horrible things will happen. No one wants to see innocents die. I get it. But it is not so simple.


If the people elected a terrorist group to represent them, then the majority must agree with the tactics of Hamas.

Again, I am anti-Netanyahu. He should be in jail and seeks to prolong the war due to the many questions surrounding Oct 7 and it support of Hamas.

With regard to history, I bring up history to demonstrate that what you think is genocide it is not. It is a battle between the strong the conquerors. Every civilization that ever existed defeated another people for their prominence. I bring up the Spanish and the Aztecs. The Aztecs were not a peaceful tribe. They killed countless of neighboring tribes in Mexico. Yet, people want to label them as victims of a genocide and the Spanish as colonizers. No, it is not like that. It is one conquering group defeating another conquering group.

What I think of genocide is when an innocent people who have not been aggressive is killed like the Jews in Germany, the Armenians by the Turks, Dafur, Rwanda. And talking about native Indian tribes, the Iroquois tried to wipe out the Huron tribe. Such is war.
 
Notice, you do not mention anything about the two-state agreement that Clinton had Israel agreed to and the Palestinians shot it down. Are the Palestinians a people of peace considering their long history of violence?

I am not saying that some of the things Israel is doing in perpetrating the war is not wrong. I agree that some of it is wrong. But overall, the Palestinians have perpetrated a war against Israel for 60 years. War is ugly and horrible and that is the plain truth of it. There is no such thing as a clean war. And that is what you are seeking. What should the Israelis do? Not go after Hamas?

During 9/11 , America was attacked. I and most Americans could care less who was killed as collateral damage as long as we went after Al Qaeda and the Taliban. And to be sure many innocents died when we went into Afghanistan. It is not something we wanted but there was a bigger issue and that is the consequence of war.

Btw, did you forget that the Palestinians cheered when 9/11 happened????? They are not our Allies and friends.

The UN stated the war has characteristics of a genocide but not a genocide. Now let’s look to history, In WW2, which we all consider an honorable war to fight by the US, there was an ugliness there as well. Things that you would consider a war crime now. The US firebombed the civilian population in Tokyo killing over 80,000 people. Bombing of Dresden in which over 35,000 people died in 2 days. This is what war is. That is the reality of trying to win a war. There is not a war in history that civilians were not killed. And this is war which was started and continued by the Palestinians. Thus, horrible things will happen. No one wants to see innocents die. I get it. But it is not so simple.


If the people elected a terrorist group to represent them, then the majority must agree with the tactics of Hamas.

Again, I am anti-Netanyahu. He should be in jail and seeks to prolong the war due to the many questions surrounding Oct 7 and it support of Hamas.

With regard to history, I bring up history to demonstrate that what you think is genocide it is not. It is a battle between the strong the conquerors. Every civilization that ever existed defeated another people for their prominence. I bring up the Spanish and the Aztecs. The Aztecs were not a peaceful tribe. They killed countless of neighboring tribes in Mexico. Yet, people want to label them as victims of a genocide and the Spanish as colonizers. No, it is not like that. It is one conquering group defeating another conquering group.

What I think of genocide is when an innocent people who have not been aggressive is killed like the Jews in Germany, the Armenians by the Turks, Dafur, Rwanda. And talking about native Indian tribes, the Iroquois tried to wipe out the Huron tribe. Such is war.
Not so sure it was an open election (hamas)
 
First, if you loved what Clinton did, what Trump is doing is the antithesis of how Clinton did it. Second, Trump is not looking to drive the deficit down, he will increase it by $4 Trillion dollars according to the bill passed by the House. Third, you talk about chips? Well that was done by Biden with the CHIPS Act. Fourth, none of the above matters, if by reckless acts such as these blanket tariffs send the economy down the drain. You don't try and fail with a great economy. There is no consistency out of the White House. His policy is to throw everything up agains the wall and see what sticks. Unfortunately, there are consequences to that.
Great economy for who? People with large 401 K’s. Sounds like you are hoping he fails. I get it the hate runs deep you have potatoes beans and rice in your future. Are we better off at the border down 95%? Are gas prices starting to come down? Are you Ok with looking for fraud and waste in the government? How about doing something to turn around our failing education. Are you ok with biological males out of women’s sports and locker rooms? The tariffs go in his favor will you acknowledge you were wrong. He’s only in office 100 days. If you wake you 4 years from now and deficit is less than 30 trillion will you give him credit? FYI chips act was perhaps the best thing that came out of the previous administration. He gets a star under his name for that one.
 
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Great economy for who? People with large 401 K’s. Sounds like you are hoping he fails. I get it the hate runs deep you have potatoes beans and rice in your future. Are we better off at the border down 95%? Are gas prices starting to come down? Are you Ok with looking for fraud and waste in the government? How about doing something to turn around our failing education. Are you ok with biological males out of women’s sports and locker rooms? The tariffs go in his favor will you acknowledge you were wrong. He’s only in office 100 days. If you wake you 4 years from now and deficit is less than 30 trillion will you give him credit?
And your genuflecting to the orange cult leader runs deep. Are you ok with the President defying the Supreme Court’s ruling? Are you ok with Congress giving up its job as the legislative branch? Are you ok with a budget that will add 4 trillion to the debt? The debt will not be decreased. It is going up. Are you ok with incompetents appointed to extremely important positions. ? I’m not ok with Musk cutting and slashing jobs indiscriminately. I thought u liked how Clinton did it? That’s how professionals actually run a country. Not what this clown show is doing. .

So you are not worried about the market? You don’t have a 401k, or a pension or any money in the market? Are you ok going into a recession? Are u ok that would mean a million people losing their jobs?

We are teetering here and this was all done for what? It’s not going to decrease the debt, it’s not going to bring manufacturing back, so what is the purpose of this??? No one knows.
 
Trump is doing what he was elected to do - cut the fat in the government, secure the border, deport illegal aliens, etc. Do I wish he'd provide more certainty and clarity on his economic policies? Yes. I do think he has fallen short on the wars (Ukraine and Israel), that's his biggest weak point so far in his second term.
 
And your genuflecting to the orange cult leader runs deep. Are you ok with the President defying the Supreme Court’s ruling? Are you ok with Congress giving up its job as the legislative branch? Are you ok with a budget that will add 4 trillion to the debt? The debt will not be decreased. It is going up. Are you ok with incompetents appointed to extremely important positions. ? I’m not ok with Musk cutting and slashing jobs indiscriminately. I thought u liked how Clinton did it? That’s how professionals actually run a country. Not what this clown show is doing. .

So you are not worried about the market? You don’t have a 401k, or a pension or any money in the market? Are you ok going into a recession? Are u ok that would mean a million people losing their jobs?

We are teetering here and this was all done for what? It’s not going to decrease the debt, it’s not going to bring manufacturing back, so what is the purpose of this??? No one knows.
The world I see needs a shake up, I went to the bakery the other day and paid $42 for a small cake, ordered a couple of cupcakes as well and I was over $50. So you are suggesting making the government bigger and spending more money. You do not know for a fact his policies will add 4 trillion, Clinton inherited a completely different climate. We are 37 trillion dollars down, every trillion up from here will drive inflation higher. I love what Musk is doing and hope he is successful. He undertaking a job that is badly needed. He’s trying to bring us modern technology. No small task and one that no one before him was capable of doing. I will be shocked if he pulls it off.
Were you Ok when we took jobs away from millions of Americans when we closed Detroit auto plants, PA steel mills, and coal mines across our country.
Personally not worried about the market, I’m in my 60’s and mostly in cash except I play with crypto markets namely Cardano. The riskiest thing I have is an annuity with 20% downside protection and of course the crypto. (Which is not much at all)
I would bet he does bring manufacturing jobs back to America, specifically ones we need here.
I believe Trump is on the offensive because if he lets up Democrats start obstructing progress and begin impeachments. I appreciate your opinion and yes you could be right. What goes up always has to come down, Too think the economy is going to go straight up is naive, a recession or another bump in the road is always around the corner. I think there is a better chance we leave higher when Trump is done than lower. 60/40.
By the way I’m a registered conservative Democrat who thinks they have lost there way, and yes I’m hoping Trump is successful like all of us should. Try not to stress out over all this stuff it’s not good for your health, I do enjoy debating with you but neither one of us knows what the future holds.
 
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The world I see needs a shake up, I went to the bakery the other day and paid $42 for a small cake, ordered a couple of cupcakes as well and I was over $50. So you are suggesting making the government bigger and spending more money. You do not know for a fact his policies will add 4 trillion, Clinton inherited a completely different climate. We are 37 trillion dollars down, every trillion up from here will drive inflation higher. I love what Musk is doing and hope he is successful. He undertaking a job that is badly needed. He’s trying to bring us modern technology. No small task and one that no one before him was capable of doing. I will be shocked if he pulls it off.
Were you Ok when we took jobs away from millions of Americans when we closed Detroit auto plants, PA steel mills, and coal mines across our country.
Personally not worried about the market, I’m in my 60’s and mostly in cash except I play with crypto markets namely Cardano. The riskiest thing I have is an annuity with 20% downside protection and of course the crypto. (Which is not much at all)
I would bet he does bring manufacturing jobs back to America, specifically ones we need here.
I believe Trump is on the offensive because if he lets up Democrats start obstructing progress and begin impeachments. I appreciate your opinion and yes you could be right. What goes up always has to come down, Too think the economy is going to go straight up is naive, a recession or another bump in the road is always around the corner. I think there is a better chance we leave higher when Trump is done than lower. 60/40.
By the way I’m a registered conservative Democrat who thinks they have lost there way, and yes I’m hoping Trump is successful like all of us should. Try not to stress out over all this stuff it’s not good for your health, I do enjoy debating with you but neither one of us knows what the future holds.
Please look at the Smoot Hawleyntarrifs in 1930. The blanket tarriff was done already and failed. It led the country economy to sink further. That’s why I can predict it as do so many others.

I am from a blue collar family and worked as a blue collar union member from 17 to 21. I don’t like to see auto plants go down. But a lot of that was because the American car was substandard during the 80’s and 90’s. I don’t want to see jobs go away. But, if you want to concentrate on the auto industry, then fine. Targeted tariffs can work. However, blanket tariffs is absolutely insane. I can tell you are not interested in the markets but most people are exposed. The market does go up and down due to natural market fluctuations. But this is a self inflicted downturn. Completely different. Moreover, Trump wants to fire Jerome Powell, his own appointee. He has done a phenomenal job with the fed. So he wants a yes man who can further destroy the economy. We are teetering on a disaster. And there is no quick way to come back from it.
 
I agree about Jerome Powell, but think our problems started with a global economy as stated in earlier posts. We just went to far. I really believe at 37 trillion down we may never come back, we are at a point where the interest on the debt is threatening our way of life. We need to shake things up because we are headed down a bad road. Inflation was suppose to be transitory but that ship sailed. The border was suppose to be secure, then we needed 1.7 trillion to fix it under Biden. Trump already saved us 1.7 trillion if you think about it. People criticized him when he fought to not pass that bill. He was a fool they said but the reality is 95% reduction at the border 100 days into his administration by making policy changes and very little money. Think about not only the 1.7 trillion but all the money Biden cost tax payers opening up that border. Shameful disrespect to American people paying for his stupidity , all to gain more power. Too me it’s all about the outcome, where Trumps policies take us. Yes he could run the country into the ground but better chance he’s successful in my mind. Happy to support his efforts, if he’s right he could go down as one of the greatest presidents ever which is really what he wants. A pat on the back and a chance to say he was the goat.
 
The secured border was THE Number one issue that Trump touted when he came down the escalator before the 2016 election. He was criticized for “the wall”. Biden did him the biggest favor handing Trump the 2024 election by not only ignoring it, but making it much worse. Probably THE greatest example of Trump NOT running the country into the ground. As you said, 100 days in and we have the most secure border in decades done so by executive order alone. So let’s just admit that he was absolutely right to stall the $1.7 trillion bi-partisan bill. I think most Americans are thrilled with this result versus being sympathetic to Abredo Garcia.

I also agree he shouldn’t be threatening to fire Powell. He’s riding the tariff plan and I am no expert that can predict where this will end up (NO ONE on this message board knows). But he was right on the border when his detractors predicted the same failure.
 
I also agree he shouldn’t be threatening to fire Powell. He’s riding the tariff plan and I am no expert that can predict where this will end up (NO ONE on this message board knows). But he was right on the border when his detractors predicted the same failure.
Keep ignoring history.
 
Keep ignoring he was absolutely right on the border….
Executive action is not how you do border policy. Immigration laws should be changed. He has congress so change the laws. Why isn’t that done?…. That legislation was the right thing to do instead of EO. More important than the border is the economy. Btw, deportations are still down under Trump then Biden. I wonder. https://tracreports.org/reports/756/
 
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