A few games that you may have overlooked, the Walsh beat down by St. John’, blowout by a lousy Marquette team in the first round of the BET, a home loss to DePaul, multiple losses to Rutgers as a favorite, first round blowouts to Gonzaga and powerhouse Wofford, and the worst of all, the one foot out the door disgrace against TCU, handclapping all the way.
Maryland V MSU
- Thread starter SOSHU
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I would take the wins I listed over your list of loses any day. What is your point. As much as I love Sha his OOC record against Power 6 teams is horrific. I just get concerned when people don’t recognize what K W did for Seton Hall.
No sarcasm, just straightforward comment. I believe it helps these kids to settle down and revisit what the staff wants to do.
Why anyone chooses to bash the second best coach in the last 70 years is beyond me? You would think we had a plethora of John Woodens coming in and out of here over the years. Go through the list before PJ and after PJ and if you want to talk about one foot out the door, Amaker was so far out the door, Amaker was in Michigan before the door shut behind him.
Think you might have forgotten a couple more.
2011-12 - 28 point loss @ DePaul
2013-14 - loss to FDU and St Peters at home
2015-16 - loss to Long Beach St
2016-17 - 30 point loss @ Nova
2017-18 - loss to URI (D. Hurley) minus 2 starters
2018-19 - 23 point loss @ Nebraska
2018-19 - 28 point loss @ Nova
2019-20 - MSU and Oregon choke jobs
2019-20 - 20 point loss @ Rutgers
2019-20 - loses to Nova / Marquette to end season
2020-21 - 36 point loss @ Creighton
2021-22 - back to back losses to lowly GTwon / Butler with a bid on the line.
And multiple losses (1 is too many) to DePaul besides the one highlighted above.
I think the other guy forgot a lot of the wins too. Can you point out the missed wins like 2012 wins vs Uconn and Georgetown, Sterling Gibbs shot in 2014, beating ranked nova and sju in 2015 without whitehead, 3 top 5 wins in 2 weeks in 2016 you can continue, there’s plenty more.
The Willard era (specifically the latter half) was successful on paper, especially compared to past SH coaches. But the most significant, underlying theme of his time here was failure in the biggest moments. The only exception was the Big East Tournament win in 2016.
- 2011: After winning the final 2 games of the season, a lackluster effort against Rutgers in the BET first round.
- 2012: Lots to unpack this season. 11-1 non-conference start, then not even competitive in a blowout Big East opening loss at Syracuse. Won four in a row after that, but followed it up with a brutal six game losing streak. Later, only needed to beat horrific Rutgers and DePaul to get a NCAA bid. Lost both, and had the doors blown off at DePaul.
- 2013: 12-2 (1-0) start to the season. Proceeded to lose 15 of the next 17 games.
- 2014: Upset Villanova in the BET semis, couldn't follow it up with a win against a lesser Providence team.
- 2015: 15-6 (5-4) and in position for a NCAA bid entering February. Collapsed, losing 9 of the last 10 games - including the infamous no-show against Marquette in the BET.
- 2016: Lose to Long Beach State, blowing a chance to play Virginia the next day. Win the Big East Tournament, then get punked by Gonzaga in the NCAA's. Oxygen tanks and all.
- 2017: Win five straight down the stretch, then Desi doesn't box out against Villanova. Follow that up with an implosion down the stretch against Arkansas in the NCAA's.
- 2018: 15-3 (4-1) start, in position for a great seed. Follow that up with six losses in the next eight games and have to fight/scrap just to get an 8 seed. Won four of five down the stretch in the regular season and then lost to Butler in BET first round.
- 2019: Followed up a run to the BET title game with a clunker against Wofford in the NCAA first round.
- 2020: Needing just one win in the final two games to win an outright Big East title, including a packed house at home against Villanova, lose both games and get humiliated on Creighton's home court, backing into a three way tie.
- 2021: 10-5 in league play through mid-February, lost the final four regular season games to blow another NCAA bid.
- 2022: No major screwups during the season aside from the aforementioned blowout to St. John's at Walsh (one of only two SJU wins in New Jersey in the 21st century), but Kev saved the best for last with the embarrassment against TCU in the NCAA first round.
I can easily do both wins and losses. Our second to last podcast episode broke down Willard’s tenure. I know that seems like forever ago. Good listen…still one of the only two episodes still out there.
Plenty of Positives and Celebratory moments. There were also plenty of missed opportunities and growing pains.
I have always said really good coach, not great coach.
The debate on the board always creates posts that are very one sided. Very rarely do I see the left and right on this topic meet somewhere closer to the middle.
in between these moments were strange suspensions, nauseating press comments, and a pretty cowardly exit.
well if it’s easily you can do both since you did the losses, you might as well easily do the wins too.
Oh I thought that was done already when one poster decided to just list every time we beat a noteworthy nonconference P6 opponent. He did forget Miami, Georgia, Louisville, Penn State, Cal, Iowa St, Indiana, Vanderbilt, Iowa, Mississippi, Wake Forest, Alabama
Forgot to mention losses to:
- Rhode Island (2)
- Oregon (2)
- Oklahoma
- Northwestern
- Nebraska
- Stanford
- Florida
- Georgia
- Wichita
- George Washington
- St. Louis
- Washington
- LSU
- Xavier
- Clemson
- Iowa St.
He had a good run that had its ups and down throughout. Whether they were individual games, swoons, or runs…there were good and bad based on perspective.
The important thing with Willard these days is how the Maryland people regard him compared to Turgeon. And I have no idea how that’s going.
Go listen to the episode. I have said my peace on his success and failures in volumes.
https://on.soundcloud.com/v4gmsrPkK5hGuxDb7
But I will not build him a statue like others would like to do. So when people talk like he could do no wrong I will always be a part of the responses that counter balance.
Writing his positives is not building a statue. Writing his negatives for everyone to see but making people listen to podcast to hear his positives???? No agenda or bias or hatred on your end. The guy was far from perfect but it’s okay to admit he had a long list of big wins in his time here. It didn’t amount to tournament wins but it was the second best span in 70 years. Thats pretty damn good. If you can take the time twice to list the losses you can take the time to list the wins if you’re so objective. Not just make people listen to a podcast from 2 years ago nobody wants to listen to in 2024
Everything on here gets divided between good or bad.
In the case of Willard, it really should be good, not great. And considering what he took over for, that’s alright.
I think where he didn’t help himself was with his personality. Seton Hall and personable coaches go well together. Think Regan, Raftery and P.J.
Willard was too aloof. He was here over a decade, yet never gave a vibe of being a Seton Hall guy. Fair or not, that doesn’t help his legacy with the fan base.
In the case of Willard, it really should be good, not great. And considering what he took over for, that’s alright.
I think where he didn’t help himself was with his personality. Seton Hall and personable coaches go well together. Think Regan, Raftery and P.J.
Willard was too aloof. He was here over a decade, yet never gave a vibe of being a Seton Hall guy. Fair or not, that doesn’t help his legacy with the fan base.
His aloofness hid his defensiveness from the voices saying he got where he was because of Ralph and Rick. Just saying that’s in his head.
Sha is the master of leftover timeouts. I agree with your sentiment but don’t agree that Sha uses his timeouts well.
Absurd to say that 5 CONSISTENT top 25 programs left and then we magically became successful? Come on, you can’t be that much of a homer.
As I’ve said, i was a big Willard supporter, read my old posts. But to not acknowledge the aforementioned fact is what is absurd. Yes we gained other quality programs but they were nowhere near our recruiting area.
The programs that left plus St. John’s and Rutgers generally being trash during that time left us as the only destination in the area.
SHU gave him more than he deserved after rumors of Holy Cross and getting simply embarrassed by Marquette. They stuck with him and i dont think for one bit he appreciated that.
Why do people insist on focusing on the negative. We regained relevancy under KW. He had more than few great wins. Two BE banners. When was the last time that happened? Five NCAAs. Yeah, unfortunately only one win, but it was the first win since 2004. Yeah, be miserable. Focus on the negative and under value the good stuff.
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you got people who just can’t type the positives of the Willard era, yet they’ll tell you they are objective. Typed 5 times on this thread, second best run in 70 years of SHU basketball. Hopefully Sha outdoes Willard but until then, it’s ok to admit Willard had this program playing in big games and won many of those big games. He didn’t get it done in the tournament but he got there which most SHU coaches can’t claim, mostly because SHU’s an extremely difficult job.
How many final 4 or even Elite 8s have the “replacements” had. The issue with Willard wasn’t scoring the occasional upset. It was the late season swoons and underachievement in the NCAA.
Won many? Did I miss some NCAA runs or did he win 1 NCAA game in 12 years? He was ok. Let’s not make him out to be PJ. He won a lot of regular season games in a weakened conference and lighter OOC to overtake his win count but he should not be mentioned in the same breath as PJ.
The only big games are not just NCAA games. And nice job of not responding to my posts with the rule book on out of bounds plays.
Yes let’s strengthen the conference back with BC Pitt Cuse VT and Louisville.
Once again another misguided comment. 🤦♂️
STOP with this idea that the Old BE wasn’t hard to win in.
What the heck does the success of these programs today have anything to do with evaluating what they brought to the BE while they were a part of it. We all recognize that leaving the Big East for football money ultimately hurt their standing in basketball.
But that has nothing to do with their contributions to the Big East.
Let’s review the teams you highlight.
1. Virginia Tech and Boston College left at the end of the 2003-04 season. They left along with Miami when the BE had 14 teams at the time. They were NEVER a part of the mega 16 team power house conference, nor were they ever a part of the conference when Kevin Willard began coaching at Seton Hall. So I have zero idea why you even bring them up.
2. Louisville joined in 2005-06. Here was their BE resume under Rick Pitino before they left for the ACC at the end of the 2012-13 season
Record: 213-76 (.737)
- 3 BE Regular Season Titles
- 4 BE tournament titles
- National title
- Final four
- 2 elite 8s
- 7 out of 8 tournament berths
- Top 4 seed like 5 times
Also left the conference for the ACC after the 2012-13 season.
Here is their resume from 2003-04 under Jamie Dixon until that departure
Record: 242-86 (.738)
- 2 BE Regular Season Titles
- 1 BE tournament title
- 9 out of 10 tournament births
- 1 elite 8
- 1 sweet 16
- Top 4 seed like 5 consecutive seasons
- #1 seed twice
Do I really need to defend Jim Boehiem’s track record?
- 10 BE Regular Season Titles
- 5 BET championships
- 4 coach of the year awards
- 47 players sent to the NBA
- 4 final fours
- 1 National Title
So when someone says it was more challenging to win in the old BE powerhouse 16 team conference compared to the NBE consisting of 10 teams, they aren’t talking out their A$$. They are talking FACTS.
Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Louisville, UConn, Notre Dame and Cincinnati with where their programs were at the time were world class above what we added in Xavier, Creighton, and Butler.
Still don’t believe me that it was easier to win in the NBE.
Villanova from 2005-06 to 2012-13 (16 team league) - 8 years
Record: 203-90 (.692)
- 1 Final Four
- 1 BE Regular Season Title
- 1 - 30 win season
9 seasons
Record: 263- 53 (.832)
- 2 national titles
- 3 Final Fours
- 7 BE regular season titles
- 5 BET championships
- 5 - 30 win seasons
Even with the special Isiah Whitehead recruiting class it would have been much much harder for Seton Hall to finish in the top 3 for 5 consecutive years like they did in the NBE. That doesn’t make Willard a bad coach, but it would have been harder for him to have the same success he enjoyed over the final years of his tenure if the landscape remained the same. The Big East was a POWERHOUSE back then.
🎤 drop
Michigan State and Oregon should have been wins and weren't.
Arkansas in tournament should have been a win and wasn't.
There’s a post by @shu09 a couple months ago .that actually shows there was little difference is the teams in the old big east vs the new big east. Nobody said the old big east wasn’t hard to win in, just the new big east has as many tough games as the old one did. There was just more teams you played once as opposed to playing everyone twice. Sad you mic drop yourself. The following is some great work by this guy. Your facts are based on what??? Your opinion LOL. See facts below. I’m really missing how the league dropped off. And my point on those teams is if they were here now would the big east be better? Not what they did in the past. Glad you wasted your time, feel good about yourself, mic dropped yourself on something nobody was talking about. I hope you flexed in the mirror after you posted. And not just a bicep flex, chest flex, and an Eric Dickerson type thigh flex too with big time grunts that woke up the neighbors. You earned that buddy. Big man of the message board. But in the end nothing in there is a proven fact that the new big east dropped off from the old big east. The new teams are having success. 3 national titles in 10 seasons. Huge drop off from the 7 national titles that you make it sound like the big east won every 10 years, that never happened. But in the previous 10 years before the BE broke up it was 3. The previous 25 years was before the new big east was 5. 1 program UConn with 3 of them so spare me the BS that it was only Nova carrying the torch in the postseason, because for the most part it was Calhoun dominating the tournament for the big east.
And to top it off if you're best argument is the 2 time national champs wouldn't be world class in the old big east, it's time to get off the west coast because whatever Gavin Newsom is letting you guys do out there is messing with your brain big time. The only thing your post was missing....KNIBB HIGH FOOTBALL RULES!
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This team were hurt by leaving more than the league was hurt. We have to thank Nova for winning 2 chips which kept the league near the top of college basketball.
Name all the teams that won national titles for the big east in the 25 years prior to the breakup. It’s not like one program carrying the league in that department is new.
The next post somebody says we had no business winning a game that we won will be the first. Willards last regular season game at Creighton. Kadary out in the first 5 minutes. No Aiken or even Long to go to. Harris plays the point, at one point Myles Cale was running the point because Harris was on the bench. Yeah that's a recipe for a win in Omaha of all places.
I will take that level of underachieving vs. the Blaney years or Gonzalez. Do I hope Sha exceeds it? Absolutely! But needs to match it first.
Some here strut around like Sha’s Elite 8 is on our record. Newsflash, it’s not.
We’re trending up but once Sha reaches Kevin’s level of success here, we can then look to surpass.
There are so many flaws in your response. I just don’t have time to be bothered anymore.
But yes I did flex in the mirror…felt good too.
💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪
Even gave myself a fist bump. 🤛
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You literally have no time to debate facts. Your perception is all that matters. No different thant the generation who said the Babe was way better than Mantle. And the generation that says my day was better than this day. Sounds good in your head, but when you look how often you play tournament caliber teams in the new big east as opposed to old big east, not much changed. Probably performed the impossible act of procreation upon yourself after the fist bump to. Big man on campus, I mean message board.
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You always try to create a straw dog argument. No one here said that KW was PJ. You’re the only one who brings up that comparison. He had the best run since PJ and was good for SHU. That’s it. All in on Sha.
Thank you for getting the stats. How people to try to make a counter argument is just plain denial. We were an afterthought in the old big east. It’s not rocket science.
We were an after thought the first 2 years in the new big east. Players like Whitehead and Powell changed us from being an afterthought not the new conference.
And not having to go thru all those other teams enabled those players to have success. Maybe in the old big east they finish 4th? Certainly not winning the BE Title multiple times
They finished 3rd in the new big east, so one spot is a big difference. An we beat the national champs to win that title and went through #5 Xavier to do it, what more would the old big east have had. And in the old big east there’s no guarantee you play those big time teams twice.
