It’s a shame you can’t have a dialogue without insulting the other side of the argument. All I asked is that you respectfully stop calling them temper tantrums. It is a term you are using to talk down to and belittle the other side. You can make your point without that. But obviously you prefer your approach.
Most Americans now agree with Colin Kaepernick’s anthem protest
- Thread starter Halldan1
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It’s a shame you can’t have a dialogue without insulting the other side of the argument. All I asked is that you respectfully stop calling them temper tantrums. It is a term you are using to talk down to and belittle the other side. You can make your point without that. But obviously you prefer your approach.
There is a difference between a peaceful protest and a temper tantrum. I tried to spell it out for you but you either do not understand or refuse to.
Ray Lewis was part of a murder case and pled down to lesser charges. He won a Super Bowl a year later, spent another decade in the league and is now in the Hall of Fame.
If Colin Kaepernick hadn't taken a knee he would still be somewhere in the NFL whether as a starter or backup. He's clearly not worth the distraction as a backup but San Francisco didn't give him a contract worth potentially $126 million because he couldn't play.
BTW, in his last season with SF, he was solid statistically for a bad team. He had his highest yard per carry as a runner (6.8), threw his fewest interceptions (4 in 331 attempts) and had a 90.7 QB rating. That rating was middle of the league but better than Phillip Rivers, Carson Palmer, Jameis Winston, Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, Carson Wentz and Cam Newton among others.
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I don't dispute that he'd be in the league. But if he was viewed as an upper tier starter when this all started or at any point thereafter, he would be on a team. Lewis is just one of many examples as to why I think we can say that with relative certainty. Michael Vick -- who was incredibly toxic -- is another.
If Kap had started this at the start of 2014 when he got that contract, he would have continued to start or if he had been released, been scooped up immediately by any team that had cap space or could reach an agreement. By 2016, when this all started, he was coming off 3 surgeries and viewed as trending downward. He chose to opt out of the last year of his deal to become a FA in 2017.
https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/...0200614-p6tyuytcv5fx3bk4w2etwv4wqu-story.html
The restart of sports is the perfect time to end the national anthem ritual before games
By STEFAN BONDY
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS |
JUN 14, 2020 | 9:30 AM
Without fans for its restart in Orlando, Major League Soccer confirmed it won’t play the national anthem before games.
We’re guessing the NBA will do the same. Opening up the bubble to anthem singers just doesn’t make sense.
What this experiment can become then is an opportunity to finally do away with a silly ritual. Permanently. Forget, for a moment, the player protests during the anthem, which adds another layer to the argument (more on that later). The reasons for performing this song before every game are just silly, and they create a false equivalence between patriotism and sports. One has nothing to do with the other.
For fans, sports are entertainment events. You pay for a performance. Same with the movies. Or Broadway shows. Or comedy clubs. But we don’t hear the national anthem before a showing of “Cats.” A round of “Escape Room” with your friends doesn’t require you to stand and remove your hat until ‘Hooooome of the Brave’ is complete.
Everybody at Yankee Stadium knows they’re in America. These aren’t international events. And shooting a basketball into a hoop is hardly akin to going to war. There are moments in time, like directly after 9/11, when it felt more appropriate. The anthem is also fitting at the Olympics, or the World Cup. But there’s really no connection between The Star Spangled Banner and two teams playing football from Philadelphia and East Rutherford.
Two U.S. Navy F-18 Super Hornet Jets fly over Yankee Stadium as part of pregame ceremonies that include playing of the national anthem. (Michael Heiman/Getty Images)
American sports has a long history of forcing patriotism and military down our throats.
Fighter jets and B-52 bombers, weapons of war, fly above stadiums during pregame ceremonies. Baseball teams use and sell army camouflage uniforms. It seems every league has a relationship with the military and a Military Appreciation Night.
According to a government report in 2015, the Department of Defense spent at least $53 million of taxpayer money on at least 50 teams to stage military-themed events. Their goal is to inspire potential recruits in the stands or watching on TV. (For instance, the Wisconsin Army National Guard paid the Brewers $49,000 to play “God Bless America” at games in 2014 during the seventh-inning stretch). In other words, patriotism at sporting events is a paid commercial, with the anthem as the free warm-up act. (And on second thought, I’ve figured out the connection — money).
Colin Kaepernick was banned for supposedly disrespecting this. He was called anti-American and a segment of fans bought into it because of this ingrained and faulty connection between military and sports. Donald Trump pounced, and ignited the rage of his base. Now we’re waiting for the next controversy to emerge because of a misplaced ritual. Just get rid of it.
The restart of sports is the perfect time to end the national anthem ritual before games
By STEFAN BONDY
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS |
JUN 14, 2020 | 9:30 AM
Without fans for its restart in Orlando, Major League Soccer confirmed it won’t play the national anthem before games.
We’re guessing the NBA will do the same. Opening up the bubble to anthem singers just doesn’t make sense.
What this experiment can become then is an opportunity to finally do away with a silly ritual. Permanently. Forget, for a moment, the player protests during the anthem, which adds another layer to the argument (more on that later). The reasons for performing this song before every game are just silly, and they create a false equivalence between patriotism and sports. One has nothing to do with the other.
For fans, sports are entertainment events. You pay for a performance. Same with the movies. Or Broadway shows. Or comedy clubs. But we don’t hear the national anthem before a showing of “Cats.” A round of “Escape Room” with your friends doesn’t require you to stand and remove your hat until ‘Hooooome of the Brave’ is complete.
Everybody at Yankee Stadium knows they’re in America. These aren’t international events. And shooting a basketball into a hoop is hardly akin to going to war. There are moments in time, like directly after 9/11, when it felt more appropriate. The anthem is also fitting at the Olympics, or the World Cup. But there’s really no connection between The Star Spangled Banner and two teams playing football from Philadelphia and East Rutherford.
Two U.S. Navy F-18 Super Hornet Jets fly over Yankee Stadium as part of pregame ceremonies that include playing of the national anthem. (Michael Heiman/Getty Images)
American sports has a long history of forcing patriotism and military down our throats.
Fighter jets and B-52 bombers, weapons of war, fly above stadiums during pregame ceremonies. Baseball teams use and sell army camouflage uniforms. It seems every league has a relationship with the military and a Military Appreciation Night.
According to a government report in 2015, the Department of Defense spent at least $53 million of taxpayer money on at least 50 teams to stage military-themed events. Their goal is to inspire potential recruits in the stands or watching on TV. (For instance, the Wisconsin Army National Guard paid the Brewers $49,000 to play “God Bless America” at games in 2014 during the seventh-inning stretch). In other words, patriotism at sporting events is a paid commercial, with the anthem as the free warm-up act. (And on second thought, I’ve figured out the connection — money).
Colin Kaepernick was banned for supposedly disrespecting this. He was called anti-American and a segment of fans bought into it because of this ingrained and faulty connection between military and sports. Donald Trump pounced, and ignited the rage of his base. Now we’re waiting for the next controversy to emerge because of a misplaced ritual. Just get rid of it.
It is semantics but Kaepernick opted out at least in part because he was going to be released. Kyle Shanahan had already decided that Kap would not be a fit for the offensive system he was installing.
Based on his numbers his 2016 season, Kap showed he was healthy and if he was trending downward it wasn't nearly as steep as decline as, say, Joe Flacco.
Right.
But then it gets into the issue of production v distraction. NFL owners have consistently been willing to deal with the latter if they think the production outweighs the alternative. No one obviously thought it would with Kap.
No disrespect but why should a black american, whose ancestors were forcibly taken from their own country only for generations to live below the poverty line, be proud of the flag? I am not white, neither am I black. I’m proud to be here and I respect the flag. But it’s hard to put yourself in the shoes of a minority.
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It is not semantics though that he would have earned $14.5 million of injury money and could have earned $7M per year with Denver. Let's not make him a martyr here he could have earned a lot of money but thought he was worth more and was wrong.
He would not have earned injury money for 2017. He wasn't injured in 2016 and the restructured contract he and the 49ers agreed to wiped that clause away. See attached story.
If you want to argue that he overplayed his hand as a free agent, I think that's fair. You are worth what someone is willing to pay for you. I don't think there's any question that any number of teams could have used a QB with his talent at any point over these past four seasons if they were so inclined. At the same time, said player needs to make a decision about what he's willing to play for.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/15/...start-colin-kaepernick-contract-injuries.html
Elway offered $7M per year and a two year contract. He definitely overplayed his hand. Agree.
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We also don’t know his own views on how much longer he wanted to play and under what circumstances. He made a significant amount of money playing football. After the injuries he experienced plus the long term effects of football that we know exist, was it a smarter play for him to proceed as he has? He’s been able to monetize the kneeling/protest movement and gain celebrity - plenty of people didn’t know who Kap was pre-2016/2017 but certainly do so now. Every time he goes through a dance about potentially returning - like he did either last year or the year before with the open workouts (I forget the timing) - his celebrity and fame only increases leading more potential options for him to make money through other channels.
OK here goes. In 1994 , my elderly parents -Dad was 79, drove into Manhattan from Aberdeen to see a Wednesday Broadway matinee,
Parked at Port Authority. While walking on the street to the theatre, they were surrounded by a group of black boys. Dad was shoved to the ground as my mother watched in horror. They took his wallet snd watch and ran off. He was badly shaken and was given money for the parking garage by a young cop who came on the scene..
My dad, a strong man -immigrants son, depression, just 2 years of high school-to work to help the family-WWII Navy-union
shop steward was crying when I went to see him that night. He kept asking, “ Why did they do this?
They did it because those boys were not taught right from wrong. And I bet had no father presence to instill that ideal.
That was 26 years ago but the latest statistic shows that 75% of black babies are born out of wedlock. Without a father presence.
This is the primary cause of black poverty, crime infested neighborhoods like Chicago Southside - and getting leapfrogged by the newly arrived Asians ,Hispanics and people from India and Pakistan. They are not caucasian and many don't speak English when they get here. But because of nuclear families they have gotten on the Great American Dream Train. But few people want to acknowledge any of this.
Improving police tactics, taking a knee, giving preferential treatment in schools, subsidizing food and shelter are band aid tactics that don’t get to the core problem. And looting and burning businesses or stealing from a 7/11 doesn’t get sympathy from fair minded people like me.
Obama could have brought attention to Building Black Families or Black Families Matter but instead he resorted to the wimpy “ Trayvon could have been my son” and Black Lives Matter approaches.
Well so could those 5 kids who beat up my father.
But I didn’t march in protest, loot stores or burn down buildings in anger.
Cause Dad would not have wanted that.
And to get back on topic, he also would have disowned me if I ever disrespected the flag.
Parked at Port Authority. While walking on the street to the theatre, they were surrounded by a group of black boys. Dad was shoved to the ground as my mother watched in horror. They took his wallet snd watch and ran off. He was badly shaken and was given money for the parking garage by a young cop who came on the scene..
My dad, a strong man -immigrants son, depression, just 2 years of high school-to work to help the family-WWII Navy-union
shop steward was crying when I went to see him that night. He kept asking, “ Why did they do this?
They did it because those boys were not taught right from wrong. And I bet had no father presence to instill that ideal.
That was 26 years ago but the latest statistic shows that 75% of black babies are born out of wedlock. Without a father presence.
This is the primary cause of black poverty, crime infested neighborhoods like Chicago Southside - and getting leapfrogged by the newly arrived Asians ,Hispanics and people from India and Pakistan. They are not caucasian and many don't speak English when they get here. But because of nuclear families they have gotten on the Great American Dream Train. But few people want to acknowledge any of this.
Improving police tactics, taking a knee, giving preferential treatment in schools, subsidizing food and shelter are band aid tactics that don’t get to the core problem. And looting and burning businesses or stealing from a 7/11 doesn’t get sympathy from fair minded people like me.
Obama could have brought attention to Building Black Families or Black Families Matter but instead he resorted to the wimpy “ Trayvon could have been my son” and Black Lives Matter approaches.
Well so could those 5 kids who beat up my father.
But I didn’t march in protest, loot stores or burn down buildings in anger.
Cause Dad would not have wanted that.
And to get back on topic, he also would have disowned me if I ever disrespected the flag.
So sorry to hear that happened to your mom and dad. That wasn’t right, no one should ever suffer like that, especially little old people.
Sorry your father got mugged and robbed near times square/port authority area in 1994. Rudy G's tenure as mayor cleaned up events like that in areas like that. With that being said, all black boys that grow up fatherless do not venture into criminal activity. A lot of teenagers and young 20 somethings are not mature enough to deal with sex and what the outcome 9 months later could be. Moreso, I think your fatherless claim is more from the generation you grew up in. Children grow up without mothers too. Nowadays you may be a child of a two women or two men household although I am sure it shakes the boots out of most who participate on this board. By the way, the children of George Floyd and Rayshard Brooks are now fatherless.
A lot of deflecting there. I think the point is that the lack of a nuclear family with the proper support mechanisms has a more significant impact on how a child turns out than any other factor. If a community is not going to even recognize that, than I think we can all understand why many people are not going to be as passionate to support other requests they may have.
On a separate, but related note, finished watching the Netflix series on Epstein. Preyed on hundreds of minors that the majority came from one parent or broken homes.
And how about all the females that went into sex work (porn, strippers, escorting) that went to private/catholic school for 13 years, doesnt have to work both ways? Btw, obviously sex trafficking is totally disgusting as is any person who preys on minors.
I am sure there is numerous analytical evidence/stats that skew negative from growing up in a non nuclear enviroment. However there are outstanding success stories as well...Lebron James, Kevin Durant, Christina Aguilera, Samuel L. Jackson, Keanu Reeves....
Would you rather have a nuclear family dyamic filled with hostility and remorse or a divorce with good co parenting? Divorce and relationship seperation happen too...it isnt a magnet just to african americans or hispanics.
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anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0
Guest
Do you think it is not a big problem that 75% of black kids grow up without a father around? You cannot fathom how this might foster the gang culture and street life that so many fall into?
LeBron James and Kevin Durant are the rare exception, tons of talent and they got out. Many talented kids fall victim to the street and their life ends up a cautionary tale. Unfortunately LeBum doesn't use his ginormous platform to promote improving black family units or improving their neighborhoods to not allow young men to kill one another. He just stokes the flames of white man bad.
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anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0
Guest
You're spot on with this take. It's grounded in the reality of what fosters this huge problem in black culture.
I dont think every black teenage boy that has no father figure in their life is blasting tupac and screaming thug life
George and Rayshard werent killed because they potentially grew up in fatherless enviroments.
Go watch the multi part series that Jay Williams was involved in with the Newark Blue Devils high school hoops team a few years back. Bad black Newark, eptiome of crime, poverty and children out of wedlock. Maybe you take something from it.
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anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0
Guest
You're right Rayshard died because he turned an ordinary DUI arreat into a violent event by resisting arrest, stealing a teaser and trying to tase the officer.
I guess you think he should of been allowed to drive home and kill someone with his car.
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anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0
Guest
Lmao yes nobody is claiming every single kid who grows up without a father is doing this. But with 75% of the population growing up with no father it's a big problem, one of the large roots of black troubles.
You know damn well that he was weaponless until.the point of getting the taser and was running from apprehension, you really feel he had to be shot to conclude this story...running away from 2 officers, disoriented trying to deploy a taser...can you speak on why they chose to do nothing for 2 plus minutes after he was shot? They surely werent feeling threatened at that point...you dont feel that these two officers could have been any more effective pre melee?
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anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0
Guest
Omg they treated with him great respect for 30 minutes while following protocol before attempting to handcuff him, you should watch the video. How the heck could they have done any Better? You just have to put the blame on the police who conducted themselves fine, not the criminal whose literally punching officers and stealing their taser. If he could of stolen their guns I am sure he would of. This just shows you hate cops and put zero responsibility on a man for his actions, who just happens to be black.
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Seems to me that grabbing the taser and running away are key points, yet you minimize them. Why is it so difficult to understand? Don't run away. Don't resist. Yet people do this all the time. You can't fix stupid.
This guy rolled the dice and the officers did what they had to do.
More deflecting and pointing to exceptions. What does going to Catholic school have to do with growing up in a one parent family?
The reality is that you are more much more likely to grow up with a good value system in a strong nuclear family and avoid being a violent criminal that the poster was referring. You can't seem to accept that.
If you get a chance see THE RULE - a documentary about St Benedict's in Newark. Fr Ed takes in mostly black kids and the school acts as surrogate father for 4 years. High discipline coupled with counseling.
Some kids don’t play by the rules and leave but most stay.
Fr Ed says he measures success by the numbers of alums who come back WITH THEIR CHILDREN. Not money, job or celebrity. FAMILY.
This is the kind of a movement that must take precedence over all others.
That means a public crusade acknowledging the problem, giving school choice especially to young men, enforcing workfare, and reducing dependence on the govt for daily living and out of wedlock births. February should be Black Family Month not Black History Month. Look forward not back. Put energy and public discourse into that. Taking down Confederate Flags etc may give a momentary lift but it won’t help the black community in any way.
Not one politician on either side of the aisle has the onions- thanks Raf- to speak out like this. Which by the way is an argument for term limits.
But that’s for another thread.
Stay safe and Go Pirates.
Some kids don’t play by the rules and leave but most stay.
Fr Ed says he measures success by the numbers of alums who come back WITH THEIR CHILDREN. Not money, job or celebrity. FAMILY.
This is the kind of a movement that must take precedence over all others.
That means a public crusade acknowledging the problem, giving school choice especially to young men, enforcing workfare, and reducing dependence on the govt for daily living and out of wedlock births. February should be Black Family Month not Black History Month. Look forward not back. Put energy and public discourse into that. Taking down Confederate Flags etc may give a momentary lift but it won’t help the black community in any way.
Not one politician on either side of the aisle has the onions- thanks Raf- to speak out like this. Which by the way is an argument for term limits.
But that’s for another thread.
Stay safe and Go Pirates.
Thoughtful opinion piece here. Makes some good points.
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/left-silences-silent-majority-watch-november-liz-peek
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/left-silences-silent-majority-watch-november-liz-peek
60 Minutes did a segment on St. Benedicts a couple of years ago that was pretty inspirational for the reasons that you mentioned. I often wondered that if Zuckerburg gave his $100 million donation to St. B's rather than participating in the clown show with Booker, Christie and Oprah. It would have had the most positive significant impact on Newark's African American community in my lifetime.
The posters here that don't have any interest in solutions would be wise to do some research on the subject if they truly care about advancing the community.
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anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0
Guest
When do the protests start for this senseless loss of black life?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-protester-oluwatoyin-salau-19-143915474.html
https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-protester-oluwatoyin-salau-19-143915474.html
How did Rudy clean up the theater district? Broken window policing. Doesn't that make him a racist?
64 didn't say that all fatherless black boys become involved in crime, did he? That's a really weak retort.
What he's saying bristles you, and you attribute it to his "generation," because it's not politically correct. But the proof is in the pudding, and the sociologists have verified it. Yes, you can be the child (not progeny) of two women or two men, but I'm willing to bet that they are well-to-do couples, not living in housing projects. Aaand, it's a fairly recent phenomenon, so we will see what becomes of the generations engineered from same-sex parents.
This happened in 2013, but this guy(who is Caucasian) was high on mushrooms, wrestled with several officers, grabbed an officer's firearm and shot at him and somehow he made it out alive without officers feeling the need to apply deadly force. If this was a person of color its very likely it would be a different story.
https://www.today.com/video/caught-on-camera-suspect-punches-cop-grabs-gun-39233603547
https://www.today.com/video/caught-on-camera-suspect-punches-cop-grabs-gun-39233603547
How long did it take you to go back seven years to find that?
Yeah “Siri, find me a story of a white guy that got away without being shot, that a black guy would have in my opinion, seven years ago?
Or did you just search it on CNN?
Or did you just search it on CNN?
Hey guys. Just saw that an ACC coach wants majors to play Historically Black Colleges on MLKJ Day.
How will this help the black community advance economically, socially or politically?
To me this is another patronizing story that doesn’t help in any way.
Gotta get more grass rootsier than that.
Like Duke starting a School For Black Advancement and endowing the hell out of it. Or something like that.
How will this help the black community advance economically, socially or politically?
To me this is another patronizing story that doesn’t help in any way.
Gotta get more grass rootsier than that.
Like Duke starting a School For Black Advancement and endowing the hell out of it. Or something like that.
