Mueller Report - Grab your popcorn
- Thread starter Pirata
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No, mostly they care about getting re-elected. My point is not just about political parties. At the conclusion of Lent, I sometimes think about the speck in your eye, ignoring the plank in my own.
It would better if people worried a little more about what is going on in their own house and a little less about what is happening in another.
The dossier itself? Probably not? Who do you think has oversight of the dossier?
The FISA warrants? Of course!
We should have confidence in the processes of our courts.
It's not going to suggest anything nefarious though. You don't need to prove something to obtain a warrant, just a threshold of probable cause.
There was plenty of probable cause to investigate the Trump campaign.
I don’t consider myself to be a member of either house, but I do believe in being responsible for my neighborhood.
I'm not saying he is guilty of money laundering. I am saying there is a risk based on his business dealings with people who have been charged with money laundering. We should have proper oversight to understand that risk.
Entirely possible, and maybe they show he is leveraged way above where he should be if he wasn't propped up by a foreign government.
We should understand that risk as well.
Before being sworn in, receiving TS briefings, the nuke football etc, Trump's tax returns, business dealings, etc were thoroughly investigated.
As a citizen, I do not expect the details of those investigations should be made public.
I've been through my own security clearance process twice. I can only imagine the ringer they put a president-elect through..
As a citizen, I do not expect the details of those investigations should be made public.
I've been through my own security clearance process twice. I can only imagine the ringer they put a president-elect through..
This^^^. But we know Merge needs more information to fuel new conspiracy theories...
Can I impose on you to clarify this?
What do you mean by "propped up by a foreign government"?
What are the risks as you see them?
They don't have to be public, but the president does not go through getting security clearance which is why I asked if he would have had trouble getting clearance in someone else's administration. Who has the proper oversight role? Is congress aware of the results of those investigations?
Dis Trump participate in illicit activity within his real estate dealings? If so, could public disclosure of those dealings cause legal issues for Trump and his family?
Does a foreign country have financial leverage over Trump due to large amounts of debt?
Do you think the Russians wanted to gain leverage over someone like Trump? Do you think they tried?
I cannot imagine any scenario where a foreign country would have leverage over a sitting president.
The notion that Putin calls up Trump and says, "Hey Don, if you don't pass that arms deal we're going to call in your debt", does not seem reasonable to me. If you have another scenario I'm all ears (except for my thingy, that's a foot)
Additionally, as I stated before, Trump was highly vetted before being allowed to take office.
The notion that Putin calls up Trump and says, "Hey Don, if you don't pass that arms deal we're going to call in your debt", does not seem reasonable to me. If you have another scenario I'm all ears (except for my thingy, that's a foot)
Additionally, as I stated before, Trump was highly vetted before being allowed to take office.
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What Trump essentially does with these properties is provide naming rights. I doubt that he’s investing much if anything into these deals. There are hotels with his names on them in something like 27 countries. Do we think the Philippines has something on him?
I mean, he is on tape conspiring to violate campaign finace laws and you guys think there is no possible scenario where he might have been willing to do something illegal?
You think in 30 years of dealings with Russians, they never tried to compromise him on something? Assume that the Trump tower meeting was just Putin getting a record of their campaign working with Russia to use as leverage at some point. He could release a conversation with the Russian lawyer talking about how they will provide the data to wikileaks as agreed.
What if Putin says threatens to release data showing Manafort's polling data was used by the Russian troll farm unless Trump does something he wants?
And no I dont think phillipeans has leverage over Trump because they didnt try and help Trump win, Trump didnt meet alone with Duterte and not keep any transcript of that conversation, He didnt stand next to Duterte and say he believes him over our intelligence community...
If Russians act as our intelligence community believes they do, they have absolutely tried to compromise Trump during the last 30 years.
You think in 30 years of dealings with Russians, they never tried to compromise him on something? Assume that the Trump tower meeting was just Putin getting a record of their campaign working with Russia to use as leverage at some point. He could release a conversation with the Russian lawyer talking about how they will provide the data to wikileaks as agreed.
What if Putin says threatens to release data showing Manafort's polling data was used by the Russian troll farm unless Trump does something he wants?
And no I dont think phillipeans has leverage over Trump because they didnt try and help Trump win, Trump didnt meet alone with Duterte and not keep any transcript of that conversation, He didnt stand next to Duterte and say he believes him over our intelligence community...
If Russians act as our intelligence community believes they do, they have absolutely tried to compromise Trump during the last 30 years.
Respectfully, that is absurd. 85 is right, too much Netflix. You should play more golf.
Except of course we know Russia was trying to expand recruiting of western people of influence in the 1980s. There were explicit instructions to find “U.S. targets to cultivate or, at the very least, official contacts.” “The main effort must be concentrated on acquiring valuable agents,”
A KGB questionaire included:
If “subject could come to power (occupy the post of president or prime minister)”? And an assessment of personality. For example: “Are pride, arrogance, egoism, ambition or vanity among subject’s natural characteristics?”
“Compromising information about subject, including illegal acts in financial and commercial affairs, intrigues, speculation, bribes, graft … and exploitation of his position to enrich himself.” Plus “any other information” that would compromise the subject before “the country’s authorities and the general public.”
None of that is from a TV show. I wish it was.
Russia has all of that top of mind, invites Trump to Moscow in 1987 and they never work him?
A KGB questionaire included:
If “subject could come to power (occupy the post of president or prime minister)”? And an assessment of personality. For example: “Are pride, arrogance, egoism, ambition or vanity among subject’s natural characteristics?”
“Compromising information about subject, including illegal acts in financial and commercial affairs, intrigues, speculation, bribes, graft … and exploitation of his position to enrich himself.” Plus “any other information” that would compromise the subject before “the country’s authorities and the general public.”
None of that is from a TV show. I wish it was.
Russia has all of that top of mind, invites Trump to Moscow in 1987 and they never work him?
The report was limited and does not include the counterintelligence conclusions into Trump at all.
Limited...lol. If there was any hint of your conspiracy they would have pursued it.
Page 13 of the report where the structure of Mueller's team is outlined:
"From its inception, the Office recognized that its investigation could identify foreign intelligence and counterintelligence information relevant to the FBI's broader national security mission. FBI personnel who assisted the Office established procedures to identify and convey such information to the FBI. The FBI's Counterintelligence Division met with the Office regularly for that purpose for most of the Office's tenure.
For more than the past year, the FBI also embedded personnel at the Office who did not work on the Special Counsel's investigation, but whose purpose was to review the results of the investigation and to send-in writing-summaries of foreign intelligence and counterintelligence information to FBIHQ and FBI Field Offices. Those communications and other correspondence between the Office and the FBI contain information derived from the investigation, not all of which is contained in this Volume."
Given that Trump is a KGB agent, the FBI likely won't disclose what they were told until close to the election. LOL
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Right, I am sure they did.... but it is not included in the report.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/na...tion-trump-team-russia-hasn-t-stopped-n996486
Exactly. It says it right there.
whose purpose was to review the results of the investigation and to send-in writing-summaries of foreign intelligence and counterintelligence information to FBIHQ and FBI Field Offices. Those communications and other correspondence between the Office and the FBI contain information derived from the investigation, not all of which is contained in this Volume.
FBI is reportedly going to brief the gang of 8 on the counterintelligence investigation soon. You think it's just going to be highlights of Mueller's report?
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/ju...-senate-gang-8-mueller-s-counterintel-n987111
What was Mueller's assessment of Trump 1-1 meeting with Putin? Or Trump overall at the Helsinki meeting?
There are also 14 referrals from the OSC of which we know 2... and you guys think we have a full picture.
Well you can stay on top of this over the next several months and report back if the findings support your conspiracy theory. I’ve got to go work on my short game, which will probably yield more material results.
Lol... There is an ongoing counterintelligence investigation and 12 matters that were referred from the special counsel that we dont yet know what they are. Somehow acknowlging that and wanting oversight of the exdcutive branch is a conspiracy theory.
So I'll repeat myself, so you can ignore me once again. I never said we shouldn't have oversight of the executive branch.
And we are all aware of the "12 matters". Somehow, if the President of the United States was in Putin's pocket, we wouldn't be further dragging things out and farming it out. It would strike me as an immediate and serious threat to our national security. Happy Easter. Take a break; you need it.
I think the following is where we think you are a tad over the top.
I read that as you believing Trump is KGB. Correct me if I am wrong.
Speaking of short game,
Merge,
You, me, and Pete can play golf. I'll round out the foursome with Jack Barsky. Jack plays at our club from time to time and I can arrange that. I am dead serious. I've met him twice. Nice guy. The FBI agent who arrested him is a member. You can ride in the cart with Jack and talk cool spy sh*t.
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Wouldn't it be better if Merge shared a cart with Robert Ludlum, Tom Clancy or Lee Child?
I dont believe he is KGB.
I believe there is a risk that Russia has leverage over him. The risk is not due to one thing but many instances which raise red flags over the course of the last 30 years. Does that mean I would bet my house that they do? No, but I do believe it is more likely than not that they do.
That's pretty cool. Watched him on 60 minutes and was thinking about picking up his book. He wouldnt want to be paired up with me though, I'm just some weird dude from the internet and a pretty bad golfer.
I agree they might have "dirt" on him but I do not see where that would provide any leverage. A regular citizen, yes, but not a sitting president of the USA.
Said another way, what could be exposed that would be any worse than what has already been exposed or alleged about Trump?
Who knows. If they have something, there is potential that it could be anything from embarrassing to illicit and how big of a risk it is depends on how much Trump wants to prevent disclosure of it.
Finally finished reading the Mueller Report and here is where I ended up on the Obstruction issues: There are some troubling issues, some perplexing issues, and some complete non-entities.
The non-entities first:
A. The Campaign's Response to Reports About Russian Support for Trump
B. The President's Conduct Concerning the Investigation of Michael Flynn
C. The President's Reaction to Public Confirmation of the FBl ' s Russia Investigation
D. Events Leading Up To and Surrounding the Termination of FBI Director Comey
K. The President's Conduct Involving Michael Cohen
Next, the perplexing issues:
E. The President's Efforts to Remove the Special Counsel
F. The President's Efforts to Curtail the Special Counsel Investigation
H. The President's Further Efforts to Have the Attorney General Take Over the Investigation
The question is why involve yourself in the above? The investigation had begun, only suspicion could be raised by involving yourself like this now. Not really obstruction in the legal sense but common sense-wise.
The troubling issues:
G. The President's Efforts to Prevent Disclosure of Emails About the June 9, 2016 Meeting Between Russians and Senior Campaign Officials
I. The President Orders McGahn to Deny that the President Tried to Fire the Special Counsel
These look like clear obstruction to me. Asking people to lie and/or suppress evidence is not OK. If it's not obstruction, it's corruption. Is this enough for impeachment? I don't think so given all the other corruption we've seen in the executive office through the years. Neither is the hush money to skanky porn star whores.
Personally I think he's got more to worry about over that fraudulent non-profit foundation (another favorite vehicle of the political elite) and potentially lying to banks.
The non-entities first:
A. The Campaign's Response to Reports About Russian Support for Trump
B. The President's Conduct Concerning the Investigation of Michael Flynn
C. The President's Reaction to Public Confirmation of the FBl ' s Russia Investigation
D. Events Leading Up To and Surrounding the Termination of FBI Director Comey
K. The President's Conduct Involving Michael Cohen
Next, the perplexing issues:
E. The President's Efforts to Remove the Special Counsel
F. The President's Efforts to Curtail the Special Counsel Investigation
H. The President's Further Efforts to Have the Attorney General Take Over the Investigation
The question is why involve yourself in the above? The investigation had begun, only suspicion could be raised by involving yourself like this now. Not really obstruction in the legal sense but common sense-wise.
The troubling issues:
G. The President's Efforts to Prevent Disclosure of Emails About the June 9, 2016 Meeting Between Russians and Senior Campaign Officials
I. The President Orders McGahn to Deny that the President Tried to Fire the Special Counsel
These look like clear obstruction to me. Asking people to lie and/or suppress evidence is not OK. If it's not obstruction, it's corruption. Is this enough for impeachment? I don't think so given all the other corruption we've seen in the executive office through the years. Neither is the hush money to skanky porn star whores.
Personally I think he's got more to worry about over that fraudulent non-profit foundation (another favorite vehicle of the political elite) and potentially lying to banks.
Thank for the summary.
My opinion is the obstruction was always real but there was nothing would be an impeachable offense.
Agree on most. I thought the Comey firing was more troublesome in the report, but not as troublesome as efforts to fire Mueller and asking people to lie which are considerably worse.
I don't think it's enough for republican senators to turn on him. If public support starts to turn on Trump that could change but for now he has some protection as long as he stays above 30% approval.
The money itself isn't a problem but I still think "Individual-1" will be indicted once he is out of office by the SDNY related to the campaign finance violation.
You're starting to sound like me with those conspiracy theories.
I get why you would think that. Not sure what I could say that would convince you otherwise, but this isn't about partisanship. I didnt buy into the Bush is evil stuff, ive stood and clapped for Christie through other people booing him arouns me. Trump is an entirely different animal for me.
You sre correct that people are looking I to him in that there is an ongoing counterintelligence investigation and 12 matters referred out from Mueller that we dont know about yet. If it looks to be on the worst case side and Trump was involved in some illegal activity, I'm not sure how it would reconcile against the OLC policy of not indicting a sitting president. Oversight here is the responsibility of congress.
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