Omicron

[Merge]

That number is inaccurate. Is a ratio. The denominator is wrong. They use only documented cases when calculating the survival rate. The ACTUAL number of people who have had Covid could be over double the number of reported cases. Every death is confirmed as Covid positive. 10’s or even hundred of millions of people had and recovered are not reported because they survived. There are over 34 million documented cases. Some estimate that it’s likely over 150 million have actually contracted the virus but since many are asymptomatic or mild there aren’t documented. The survival number can only go up. ThIs is data on all cases. If you take those with co-morbidities is 99.99%

.25% of the US population died from Covid to date.

So that’s the floor here. the “remove comorbidity” stuff is nonsense. We don’t do that for any other illness that you would be comparing it to... and pretty much any adult is going to have at least 1 comorbidity.

Just be real with what it is. It’s not going to kill us all but it’s not the flu either. It was a threat that will likely end up killing a million Americans and caused serious illness in a couple million more. We were lucky that very effective vaccines were developed so quickly which has greatly mitigated the risk to all of us.

 

[HALL85]

.25% of the US population died from Covid to date.

So that’s the floor here. the “remove comorbidity” stuff is nonsense. We don’t do that for any other illness that you would be comparing it to... and pretty much any adult is going to have at least 1 comorbidity.

Just be real with what it is. It’s not going to kill us all but it’s not the flu either. It was a threat that will likely end up killing a million Americans and caused serious illness in a couple million more. We were lucky that very effective vaccines were developed so quickly which has greatly mitigated the risk to all of us.

First of all it’s not any comorbidity and not “pretty much everyone has” one comorbidity”. This is a disease that impacts the elderly and those with the specific comorbidities (hospitalizations and death) almost exclusively.

Yes, it’s much more serious than the flu; and we have vaccines and therapies to treat it now. It’s an endemic now. Continued restrictions are significantly increasing the risks for other life threatening issues (depression, mental illness, drug abuse and overdose deaths). All of those numbers are up dramatically. More and more vaccinated people are hospitalized each month. We need to message on ALL the ways to keep yourself healthy and out of a hospital. Two years in and we now have an unhealthier population than we started (which was bad to began with).

 

[Merge]

First of all it’s not any comorbidity and not “pretty much everyone has” one comorbidity”. This is a disease that impacts the elderly and those with the specific comorbidities (hospitalizations and death) almost exclusively.

I’m well aware of the data, but yes. Those who have died under 65 usually have something that is extremely prevalent in the US which is obesity. Around 200k deaths under 65 which dwarfs what we would see from the flu.

Flu deaths under 65 is like 10k per year.

It’s just a disingenuous talking point to say we need to remove comorbidities from the discussion. Over 40% of adults in the US are obese.

Yes, it’s much more serious than the flu; and we have vaccines and therapies to treat it now. It’s an endemic now. Continued restrictions are significantly increasing the risks for other life threatening issues (depression, mental illness, drug abuse and overdose deaths).

What restrictions are you even talking about at this point? Maybe some people have a difficult time coping with a global pandemic that has killed 800k+ Americans and millions globally?

More and more vaccinated people are hospitalized each month

Of course, because most people are vaccinated. proportionally it is a MUCH smaller percentage than the unvaccinated though.

We need to message on ALL the ways to keep yourself healthy and out of a hospital.

That is true.

 

[shu09]

Why do you normalize obesity? It's a major health problem. People who live healthy lives shouldn't be restricted from doing things because it may or may not protect obese people. They made their bed.

 

[Merge]

Why do you normalize obesity? It's a major health problem. People who live healthy lives shouldn't be restricted from doing things because it may or may not protect obese people. They made their bed.

acknowledgment is not normalization.

I’m just saying keep it in context. When you are saying, it’s a 99.9% survival rate without comorbidities, I think it’s important to add in the context how many people would be at risk of Covid. It’s not like 10% of adults. It’s everyone over 65 plus those who are obese, or have heart disease, or diabetes or lung disease.

I was in favor of restrictions to protect those people. Now that we have vaccines and treatments available, they can make their choice and we can, and have moved on.

 

[HALL85]

I’m well aware of the data, but yes. Those who have died under 65 usually have something that is extremely prevalent in the US which is obesity. Around 200k deaths under 65 which dwarfs what we would see from the flu.

Flu deaths under 65 is like 10k per year.

It’s just a disingenuous talking point to say we need to remove comorbidities from the discussion. Over 40% of adults in the US are obese.





What restrictions are you even talking about at this point? Maybe some people have a difficult time coping with a global pandemic that has killed 800k+ Americans and millions globally?




Of course, because most people are vaccinated. proportionally it is a MUCH smaller percentage than the unvaccinated though.


That is true.

Taking your number on obesity, wouldn’t the first place to start be eliminating (or at least reducing) that risk? Same with diabetes type 2. Instead we have restricted movement, not fostered improved eating habits, etc. Instead we have made an obese population more obese, less healthy and at risk with COVID.

And my point was that more vaccinated are being hospitalized and the data is going to show that the vast majority have comorbidities.

Finally, people’s lives have been and continue to be disrupted resulting in rapid rises in all mental health related problems. Restricted from seeing a parameter, businesses disrupted where someone has lost their job or livelihood or job and can’t cope, organizational mandates where people have lost their jobs, idleness that has led to drug abuse. The messaging continues to be about scaring people rather than encouraging good habits and living with the virus.

 

[flconticello]

Seriously, if the overall death rate is over 99% which it is including those with co- morbidities, why are we as a population so petrified of this virus. Why are we pushing an ineffective vaccine which has potential to cause more harm than good especially in the young? It’s fear porn that is a favorite tactic of he left. I won’t be fooled.

 

[Merge]

Taking your number on obesity, wouldn’t the first place to start be eliminating (or at least reducing) that risk?

No. You have to respond to the larger risk from the pandemic first.

Not saying we shouldn’t do more, but you can change 100 million people’s diets and exercise habits tomorrow and their risk profile doesn’t necessarily change until months down the line.

Finally, people’s lives have been and continue to be disrupted resulting in rapid rises in all mental health related problems. Restricted from seeing a parameter, businesses disrupted where someone has lost their job or livelihood or job and can’t cope, organizational mandates where people have lost their jobs, idleness that has led to drug abuse.

Lots of supposition there... the problem is that you are missing the idea that a global pandemic which has killed almost a million Americans may have had a mental health impact on its own regardless of restrictions.

Like I said previously, your theory would be fairly easy to prove out regarding mental health impacts by looking at areas with a lot of restrictions and comparing the results to areas with no restrictions.

 

[Merge]

Seriously, if the overall death rate is over 99% which it is including those with co- morbidities, why are we as a population so petrified of this virus. Why are we pushing an ineffective vaccine which has potential to cause more harm than good especially in the young? It’s fear porn that is a favorite tactic of he left. I won’t be fooled.

I’m not petrified.
the vaccines are very effective at preventing and death.
They do not pose more harm than Covid in anyone. How can you claim the left is fearmongering about the virus and then fearmonger about the vaccine?

Sorry, your posts here show you have been fooled.

 

[HALL85]

No. You have to respond to the larger risk from the pandemic first.

Not saying we shouldn’t do more, but you can change 100 million people’s diets and exercise habits tomorrow and their risk profile doesn’t necessarily change until months down the line.




Lots of supposition there... the problem is that you are missing the idea that a global pandemic which has killed almost a million Americans may have had a mental health impact on its own regardless of restrictions.

Like I said previously, your theory would be fairly easy to prove out regarding mental health impacts by looking at areas with a lot of restrictions and comparing the results to areas with no restrictions.

It’s been two years…not about changing risk profile tomorrow. And the he messaging essentially was to do the opposite. This should have been done and continued since the start.

750,000 deaths is obviously a toll, but the scare tactic messaging, disruption of lives, in many cases through arbitrary bureaucratic decisions IMO has created more of a problem. What about the small retail store that had to close while Home Depot got to remain open? The gym owner that lost his business. Those real life impacts dwarf a daily MSM death count.

 

[HALL85]

Some of these COVID protocols make no sense. Philadelphia Soul had to sit 11 players that tested positive and entire team is vaccinated. They lose in the Eastern final today.

 

[dehere23]

I’m not petrified.
the vaccines are very effective at preventing and death.
They do not pose more harm than Covid in anyone. How can you claim the left is fearmongering about the virus and then fearmonger about the vaccine?

Sorry, your posts here show you have been fooled.

There is still a big difference between how certain states and cities run by Ds are dealing with certain aspects of this, especially schools which is frankly one of the most important things in my life given the age of my kids (elementary school). It’s frustrating.

 

[Merge]

It’s been two years…not about changing risk profile tomorrow. And the he messaging essentially was to do the opposite. This should have been done and continued since the start.

750,000 deaths is obviously a toll, but the scare tactic messaging, disruption of lives, in many cases through arbitrary bureaucratic decisions IMO has created more of a problem. What about the small retail store that had to close while Home Depot got to remain open? The gym owner that lost his business. Those real life impacts dwarf a daily MSM death count.

I’m not arguing we got everything perfectly right. We didn’t.

I was just saying (to flconticello) to keep it in context when he is taking about 99.99% survival.

 

[Merge]

There is still a big difference between how certain states and cities run by Ds are dealing with certain aspects of this, especially schools which is frankly one of the most important things in my life given the age of my kids (elementary school). It’s frustrating.

Sure, there are some differences but I honestly can’t remember the last time I was actually unable to do something because of Covid.
Certainly nothing that would cause mental illness or drug use.. which was the point I was responding to.

my kids wear masks at school. Other than that my life is completely normal and has been for a while.

 

[shu09]

It's definitely different regionally. I recently was in the south (not Florida) and it's barely even talked about there. People have moved on. No masks (except for employees at businesses that require them for staff), very little discussion about it. Life felt normal. Then you come back to the NJ/NY area and you see people wearing masks everywhere, constant bombardment in the media with vaccine commercials, etc. It's like a religion here.

 

[shufan1993]

acknowledgment is not normalization.

I’m just saying keep it in context. When you are saying, it’s a 99.9% survival rate without comorbidities, I think it’s important to add in the context how many people would be at risk of Covid. It’s not like 10% of adults. It’s everyone over 65 plus those who are obese, or have heart disease, or diabetes or lung disease.

I was in favor of restrictions to protect those people. Now that we have vaccines and treatments available, they can make their choice and we can, and have moved on.

Aren't there still restrictions? Don't kids and staff in schools still need to wear a mask? Thats not a restriction?

 

[shufan1993]

Sure, there are some differences but I honestly can’t remember the last time I was actually unable to do something because of Covid.
Certainly nothing that would cause mental illness or drug use.. which was the point I was responding to.

my kids wear masks at school. Other than that my life is completely normal and has been for a while.

So you don't have to wear a mask at your doctor's office?

 

[dehere23]

Sure, there are some differences but I honestly can’t remember the last time I was actually unable to do something because of Covid.
Certainly nothing that would cause mental illness or drug use.. which was the point I was responding to.

my kids wear masks at school. Other than that my life is completely normal and has been for a while.

My life is pretty normal as well. A big reason for that is because that's how I roll. But the masks in school is still a huge issue for me and so it still has a significant impact on my family every day. The BS illogical "rules" are still there day-in, day-out when it comes to my kids, who play indoor soccer and basketball against others unmasked 50 feet down the same hallway where they have to wear a mask in class, because apparently COVID risk doesn't exist in the gymnasium but somehow does in the classroom. It's nonsense.

 

[flconticello]

I’m not petrified.
the vaccines are very effective at preventing and death.
They do not pose more harm than Covid in anyone. How can you claim the left is fearmongering about the virus and then fearmonger about the vaccine?

Sorry, your posts here show you have been fooled.

Really, do a little research. The vaccines do more harm than good. They cause terrible side effects in the young and promote mutation in the virus. That is fact. How effective is the Flu vaccine? On a good year the flu vaccine is 45% effective. This vaccine is is even less effective in preventing contraction than the Flu vaccine.

 

[flconticello]

I’m not arguing we got everything perfectly right. We didn’t.

I was just saying (to flconticello) to keep it in context when he is taking about 99.99% survival.

They actual number is 99.7% if you included the unreported cases. 99.99% is if you eliminate the people with co-morbidities. People like myself. 50’s in good health.

 

[Merge]

My life is pretty normal as well. A big reason for that is because that's how I roll. But the masks in school is still a huge issue for me and so it still has a significant impact on my family every day. The BS illogical "rules" are still there day-in, day-out when it comes to my kids, who play indoor soccer and basketball against others unmasked 50 feet down the same hallway where they have to wear a mask in class, because apparently COVID risk doesn't exist in the gymnasium but somehow does in the classroom. It's nonsense.

I agree the masks are unnecessary for kids at this point. Thankfully my kids don’t seem to mind it at all, and honestly, they haven’t been sick at all the last 2 years which has been nice.

 

[Merge]

Really, do a little research. The vaccines do more harm than good. They cause terrible side effects in the young and promote mutation in the virus. That is fact. How effective is the Flu vaccine? On a good year the flu vaccine is 45% effective. This vaccine is is even less effective in preventing contraction than the Flu vaccine.

I’ve done plenty of research. They do not do more harm than good. You’ve been misled.

It’s not less effective than the flu vaccine. It does wane over time but Covid doesn’t have the 4-5 month seasonality of the flu.

 

[shufan1993]

Really, do a little research. The vaccines do more harm than good. They cause terrible side effects in the young and promote mutation in the virus. That is fact. How effective is the Flu vaccine? On a good year the flu vaccine is 45% effective. This vaccine is is even less effective in preventing contraction than the Flu vaccine.

It seems like you have been mislead my right wing propaganda. Promote mutation in the virus? What's your source on that one?

 

[King of S]

Aren't there still restrictions? Don't kids and staff in schools still need to wear a mask? Thats not a restriction?

Same in South Carolina. Life 99% back to normal.

 

[flconticello]

It seems like you have been mislead my right wing propaganda. Promote mutation in the virus? What's your source on that one?

Infectious Disease Expert Dr. Leyla Best

“The creation of a vaccine for any new virus could also cause additional mutations.”

 

[Hallsome]

Thank God you're back. How is your rectal impaction? I know how busy you are and that you only post when you poop. I know when I get backed up, there's nothing like a high colonic to really clean things up. Although now that I'm looking at the time of your post, perhaps you were watching TV. Did you see Gonzaga lose? Alabama looks like the real deal and I always wonder what happened with Quinerly at Nova,

On Friday, the death rate was .9%. Perhaps during a slow moment in your next conference call you can learn how to calculate it yourself. Teach a man to fish and all. See you Thursday!

Never left but appreciate the monitoring

I’ve never claimed to be busy, never discussed a conference call, although I do read this on the toilet

I enjoy you posts and merge’s.

.9 or 1.99?

What’s Thursday?

 

[Hallsome]

Not really. It’s a nuanced discussion and age, comorbidity, vaccination status are all part of the discussion. I’ve given you good faith estimates in the past and have been reasonable all along. You’re not interested in nuance or good faith discussions here.

Good faith, yes, sure. I don’t doubt your good faith.
I doubt your sources which you’ve obviously picked up on give the points you direct back to me.

 

[Merge]

Good faith, yes, sure. I don’t doubt your good faith.
I doubt your sources which you’ve obviously picked up on give the points you direct back to me.

You can doubt my "sources" all you like, but based on my posting history you will see that my "sources" had a pretty good understanding of what was going on all along.

This from March 13, 2020 for example. Before it was really even hit us in the US and I had a relatively good idea where the mortality rate was at the time.

The lowest expectation I have seen so far has been .7% mortality which is still more than 7x that of the flu. Without containment we are talking about hundreds of thousands of deaths in the US and millions globally.

I was never on the panic train of inflating the rates. I assumed less than 1% and that was before the vaccines helped.

 

[SHUSA]

Some of these COVID protocols make no sense. Philadelphia Soul had to sit 11 players that tested positive and entire team is vaccinated. They lose in the Eastern final today.

Philadelphia Union. brutal way to go out. basically lost an entire team

 

[HALL85]

Philadelphia Union. brutal way to go out. basically lost an entire team

And there was really no reason for it. If I was a coach, I would be telling my players to stick the swabs in your ears....

 

[SHUSA]

idk im getting a feeling this one we should actually be wary of until it dies down. i know dozens of people who have covid now and are not having a great go of it.

 

[HALL85]

idk im getting a feeling this one we should actually be wary of until it dies down. i know dozens of people who have covid now and are not having a great go of it.

Not Omicron though...this is all still Delta as a hangover from Thanksgiving travel and get togethers.

 

[SHUSA]

And there was really no reason for it. If I was a coach, I would be telling my players to stick the swabs in your ears....

yea idk. having to bench covid positive players doesnt seem THAT outrageous i just dont know when it will be over

 

[flconticello]

If this was nipah virus or Ebola I’d be first in line for a vaccine experimental or not. This is not all that deadly. This should be no different than Flu vaccine. If you want it great if not it’s your own choice. These politicians are ruining our country for power.

 

[flconticello]

yea idk. having to bench covid positive players doesnt seem THAT outrageous i just dont know when it will be over

Did they bench Jordan when he had the flu?

 

[shu09]

idk im getting a feeling this one we should actually be wary of until it dies down. i know dozens of people who have covid now and are not having a great go of it.

Newsflash: Getting sick is a part of life.

 

[SHUSA]

Newsflash: Getting sick is a part of life.

yea but the cases i know arent just a few days of flu. boss just told me they had a death in the family male, 40s, healthy from covid.

im not trying to be scare tactics. but it seems to be a littl emore than just getting sick

 

[SHUSA]

Did they bench Jordan when he had the flu?

the guys in the nba getting sick from covid are getting hit too hard to play. cardiomyopathy also a big concern for that crowd

 

[SHUSA]

Not Omicron though...this is all still Delta as a hangover from Thanksgiving travel and get togethers.

thats good perspective. but does that mean delta is still going strong?

 

[shu09]

yea but the cases i know arent just a few days of flu. boss just told me they had a death in the family male, 40s, healthy from covid.

im not trying to be scare tactics. but it seems to be a littl emore than just getting sick

Exceptions do happen. But was this "healthy" person overweight? Many Americans say that obese people are healthy. Was he vaccinated?