Please opt for Gettysburg

[seton1996]

I don't think we will ever really know the true impact Russia had on 2016. I'm not mad Hillary lost. She wasn't a good candidate and didn't run a great campaign, but had Russia not hacked the DNC and Podesta, I am not sure if the outcome would have been the same or not.

But we need to separate what the media is doing from what the president is doing. Hillary and Obama could have spent the period from the election to the inauguration casting doubts on the process. Hillary could have refused to concede etc...

That didn't happen because it would have been wrong. The right thing to do, and what we have expected from every sitting president is a smooth transfer of power to the clear winner. That was Trump in 2016, and that is Biden in 2020.

Are you implying the Russians actually changed the vote counts or hacked the election in some way, or just used "influence" to get people to vote a certain way? Because I have seen no evidence they in any way changed election results? People voted how they wanted to vote.

While foreign influence in an election is unacceptable, unfortunately it has been going on forever, by the US government and many other governments. But in the end, it is just influence, really no different than information (or misinformation) being provided by writers, tv personalities, celebrities, pollsters, bloggers, social media, etc.. , people still had to vote and they didn't like Hillary. People have to make their own conscious decision on how they want to vote.

 

[Merge]

Wow. People are not bright or intentionally one sided if they don’t see that the collusion crap was the manifestation of dems believing that the election was stolen.

lol... No. The collusion story was because Russia helped Trump and Trump's campaign was acting very shady in regards to their contacts with Russia. The far majority of the collusion narrative was Trump's own fault.

 

[Merge]

Are you implying the Russians actually changed the vote counts or hacked the election in some way

No. Their goal was to help Trump win. They did that by hacking the DNC and Podesta and releasing their e-mails and by targeted campaigns to influence voters. Just saying, we don't know how effective those campaigns were specifically.

While foreign influence in an election is unacceptable, unfortunately it has been going on forever, by the US government and many other governments. But in the end, it is just influence, really no different than information (or misinformation) being provided by writers, tv personalities, celebrities, pollsters, bloggers, social media, etc.. , people still had to vote. People have to make their own conscious decision on how they want to vote.

Absolutely true. I am not trying to relitigate 2016.
My point was that Obama and Hillary could have made Russian interference a much bigger issue during the transition but they didn't because that is what we expect of politicians. We should expect the same from Trump.

 

[donnie_baseball]

Absolutely, but it did have an impact on the election.

How many votes did it alter?

 

[donnie_baseball]

Obama and Hillary could have made Russian interference a much bigger issue during the transition but they didn't because that is what we expect of politicians. We should expect the same from Trump.

agree.

 

[seton1996]

No. Their goal was to help Trump win. They did that by hacking the DNC and Podesta and releasing their e-mails and by targeted campaigns to influence voters. Just saying, we don't know how effective those campaigns were specifically.

So, similar to negative stories dropped before this election that made Trump look bad.

NY Times releasing stories in late September / early October that Trump paid little taxes in 2017.

Negative interview clips released from Woodward book about Trump and Covid.

Not saying these things weren't news worthy, they are, just like I feel Hillary's emails were newsworthy.

These type of "influential" stories appearing before elections have happened forever; long before cable TV, the internet, social media, and probably long before even radio existed.

 

[Merge]

How many votes did it alter?

Like I said, there is no way to know the impact but more than zero. I personally know two 2016 Bernie supporters who voted 3rd party because of the DNC leak. The Trump campaign thought the hacks would help them which is why they were communicating with wikileaks.

 

[Section112]

If I was a Bernie supporter I would have been pissed at the DNC too. They threw the primary to Hillary and did all they could to make sure Bernie was not the candidate and he may have in fact won. So now whose fault it that? The Russians? Or the corrupt DNC?

Then they did it again this last election. The DNC was a complete fraud and even gave questions to Hillary before the debate. They were caught.

 

[HALL85]

If I was a Bernie supporter I would have been pissed at the DNC too. They threw the primary to Hillary and did all they could to make sure Bernie was not the candidate and he may have in fact won. So now whose fault it that? The Russians? Or the corrupt DNC?

Then they did it again this last election. The DNC was a complete fraud and even gave questions to Hillary before the debate. They were caught.

The Houston Astros of politics

 

[Merge]

If I was a Bernie supporter I would have been pissed at the DNC too. They threw the primary to Hillary and did all they could to make sure Bernie was not the candidate and he may have in fact won. So now whose fault it that? The Russians? Or the corrupt DNC?

Then they did it again this last election. The DNC was a complete fraud and even gave questions to Hillary before the debate. They were caught.

Agree, but we only knew that because one side was hacked by another country and one side was coordinating with wikileaks to time the release of that information.

Obama and Hillary could have been harping on all of that stuff during the transition period but they weren't. They weren't yelling about a rigged, stolen election etc... Hillary conceded once the outcome was certain in a much closer election than this one and delivered a concession speech calling for unity and said that we owe Trump an open mind and a chance to lead. All I am saying is that we should expect that as a bare minimum from the president and I think it is petty pathetic that our standards for the presidency have been lowered so much that people here think it is unreasonable to expect the president to not gaslight on his way out.

 

[Hallsome]

Agree, but we only knew that because one side was hacked by another country and one side was coordinating with wikileaks to time the release of that information.

Obama and Hillary could have been harping on all of that stuff during the transition period but they weren't. They weren't yelling about a rigged, stolen election etc... Hillary conceded once the outcome was certain in a much closer election than this one and delivered a concession speech calling for unity and said that we owe Trump an open mind and a chance to lead. All I am saying is that we should expect that as a bare minimum from the president and I think it is petty pathetic that our standards for the presidency have been lowered so much that people here think it is unreasonable to expect the president to not gaslight on his way out.

The defense of Dems On here is sickening, myopic and naive but predictable and another example of why I can’t currently affiliate with or support the party although I did in the not so long ago past. The staunchest of republicans here can see fault with their own and don’t spin literally everything. Keep selling rainbows and ignore the harm that liberal policies create when compared. Nose wide open with Maddow and Lemon etc

 

[Merge]

The defense of Dems On here is sickening, myopic and naive but predictable and another example of why I can’t currently affiliate with or support the party although I did in the not so long ago past. The staunchest of republicans here can see fault with their own and don’t spin literally everything. Keep selling rainbows and ignore the harm that liberal policies create when compared.

I said in this thread that Hillary was a bad candidate and ran a bad campaign... Yet I can't see fault from democrats? I have been critical of democrats many times on this board. I am not a democrat. I just have a more liberal belief system that tends to line up more with democratic politicians.

I really don't care who you choose to affiliate with. I am not defending dems right now as much as commenting on present day issues and it just happens that Trump has hurt the republican party.

 

[Hallsome]

I said in this thread that Hillary was a bad candidate and ran a bad campaign... Yet I can't see fault from democrats? I have been critical of democrats many times on this board. I am not a democrat. I just have a more liberal belief system that tends to line up more with democratic politicians.

I really don't care who you choose to affiliate with. I am not defending dems right now as much as commenting on present day issues and it just happens that Trump has hurt the republican party.

I didn’t call you out specifically but if the shoe fits wear it Cinderella

 

[Merge]

I do love a well fitting shoe.