I own a piece of a horse who is on the Also-Eligible list for the Derby. Neither my horse nor Repole's horse will win.
Richmond has left the building
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You are not a very good student of human nature. The lived reality of what big money does to people, especially the young, has a large sample size. The NBA has seen that....
Not all that glitters is gold.
Copying my same Trove post here for S's & G's...bathe in my wisdom
I don't begrudge him for maximizing money. That's the system now. However, going to St. John's would be an open checkbook for him to get absolutely lambasted and booed relentlessly when he returns to Prudential Center just like Cooley at Providence. He doesn't have to care and likely won't, but it's silly to not expect the fan base to get their pound of flesh so to speak. Since we play in the Devils arena, I'll equate it to him getting the Scott Gomez treatment after he left as a free agent to the Rangers. He's a pro now. Deal with it.
I don't begrudge him for maximizing money. That's the system now. However, going to St. John's would be an open checkbook for him to get absolutely lambasted and booed relentlessly when he returns to Prudential Center just like Cooley at Providence. He doesn't have to care and likely won't, but it's silly to not expect the fan base to get their pound of flesh so to speak. Since we play in the Devils arena, I'll equate it to him getting the Scott Gomez treatment after he left as a free agent to the Rangers. He's a pro now. Deal with it.
I agree with almost all of this. The sticking point, and it's a philosophical one, is that I don't agree they were "used." Maybe some were, but by-and-large, even in the modern era with the options of G-league, NBA and Europe directly from high school, the pay for play was a free education, and it was a mutual agreement, not indentured servitude.
That and the above the table perks of housing and meals, clothing, shoes, and gear. Not to mention, at the P6 level, access to top-notch strength and conditioning, coaching, and the platform to showcase it all on national TV.
The counter to this, of course, is that this is a pittance compared to what the NCAA and member schools raked in, not to mention the coaches and even certain strength and conditioning professionals. Fair enough, but then why isn't the organization that used them, the NCAA, responsible for profit-sharing, rather than forcing fans to carry that burden? So then you have the schools with the Repoles, Knights, the rutgers whats-his-name, and Texas oil men with a distinct advantage. In addition, these bags of money, in most cases, have no strings attached (apparently), certainly not name, image, and likeness, and perhaps not even for a full year when the inmates running this asylum force the NCAA to give up the last feeble attempt at control.
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If he plays like Scott Gomez on the rangers, it would make a lot of SHU fans happy. It's worth noting that Gomez came crawling back to the Devils a few years later, for much less money.
It's a reasonable opinion, but I think the "use" goes a little deeper than just the top kids. I would also say that every kid's situation was unique and that the value proposition between athlete and program varied widely.
For some, particularly the end-of-bench kids, the free tuition room, and board (as well as all the other perks/swag) were ample compensation for what they brought. But there were also innumerable superstars who made millions for their schools, conferences, and the NCAA, as well as for CBS, ESPN, etc., who got the same deal. And even the "good" players who were never threats to make any real money as pros still made a lot for the programs and the NCAA (and coaches). And they were almost completely exploited.
In all cases, it was a mutual agreement, but it's not like the athletes typically had much leverage. There was a time when they could not go right to the NBA, and even once they were, that wasn't realistic for the vast majority. They also weren't developed enough to play for pay oversees. With the NBA and NCAA conspiring to limit their options, this was the only one. Yes, they did receive development and a platform to showcase themselves, but that certainly wasn't done with charity in mind by the programs. The schools and programs used these kids up until they had nothing left to give in terms of eligibility, and then all of the accommodations they made for them when they had value suddenly evaporate. Many programs knew a lot of these kids were coming from places that did not equip them to be true students, so they played games to keep them eligible, but once that's gone, the concern was too. So when I say "used," it's mostly in that vein.
Cripes. Who knows what the source was. Wonder if we could have retained Dre Davis if we knew Richmond was out.
Even with the NIL insanity still some things remain the same. In the old days we'd get beat by under the table 💰 💰 💰 . Today we get beat by over the table 💰💰💰. In the end we're still screwed.
Fair enough, and thank you for expounding. I agree that the guys who were great college players, but not NBA material (Powell, Whitehead) got the worst end of the deal. The sure-fire NBA guys now get to double dip.
Maybe I'm unaware of the NBA and NCAA conspiring, but I'm with you 100% that neither does anything out of the goodness of their hearts. Now, we just need a judge to rule that the NCAA has to profit share, and we can correct a some of the wrong that is currently going on.
The marriage of pfp and unlimited transfers is the real issue.
It’ll be interesting to see how he handles the vitriol after he has one of his 2-11 shooting games and they lose.. doesn’t seem like the kind of kid that wants attention.. well, it’s coming now
I disagree with a basic premise here
The money going to the players is coming from guys like Repole at St. John's. It's the equivalent of money going to a new building or to a named professorship. It has little to do with the TV revenues for March Madness and more about personal clout of the people donating
"innumerable superstars who made millions for their schools" --> this has nothing to do with the Walton family subsidizing Arkansas NIL.
The money is coming from individuals and groups who want to see their school do well, or people who have a lot of money who want to gain whatever kind of influence from donating more. I'm not saying that athletes were or were not being "exploited" (your term) but the money that's now flowing into their pockets is coming from a completely different source. BTW - I think this is what explains the NCAA's laissez-faire attitude towards NIL.
Seton Hall very obviously should be dumping money into NIL and not trying to be shoestring here. Basketball visibility is its easiest way into increasing applications/visibility and catapulting it higher in university rankings and so on generally. But that money wouldn't be coming from March Madness revenues or the "profitability" of college basketball gate revenues or whatever... it would be a strategic investment from the university and its donors ... and instead of going into new buildings, or professors, or administrators, or athletic facilities, or whatever it now goes into basically a grafted-on professional basketball team.
I would like a lawyers or accountants views on this,. I know in business there are a host of accounting, financial, and legal standards about what is "reasonable". You cant pay a vendor 10X the going market rate for a good or service they are providing without running into a host of complications.
How would NIL be any different? From my understanding the underlying service is based on the "Name Image and Likeness" of the person. How could you reasonably conclude that paying Kadary 100k to show up for a half hour to a booster's son 8 year old birthday party is "reasonable". It makes sense for someone like Oliva Dunne/Caitlin Clark where their marketability can be assumed to have an ROI for the company giving them millions..
The issue is the political class knows the masses loves their college football so their is no incentive to use the common standards used in other places.
We don't really disagree, at least on the first few paragraphs. (A few times, I've written long-winded posts about how there really is no correlation between athletic success and raising a university's academic profile. There's a ton of research on this, and I'll spare everyone the entire spiel. Suffice to say, in the case of basketball, achievement had to really spike to produce anything noticeable -- say, a surprise Sweet Sixteen or Elite Eight run -- and even then, you're only talking about a temporary surge in applications, and not only does the quality of the applicant not rise, but it barely moves the needle on conversions -- getting kids to enroll.)
With the money, you're absolutely right that the money kids are earning is not coming from any of those millions being made by the programs, conferences, and, networks, and the NCAA. It's all the largesse of boosters, disguised as "NIL" value. A misnomer and a sham, but it is what we have today. And I couldn't agree more that the NCAA is somewhat unmotivated to change this. First, they can't. No court would now permit the players' earning ability based on the value of their name, image, or likeness to be capped or restricted. And second, the longer there is a model in place that puts the onus on fans to pay player instead of the NCAA itself or the universities that sponsor these money-making fronts, they happier they are.
Maybe I give human nature the benefit of the doubt. I find your take pretty crappy.
I offered McBride and Company to do complementary financial wellness seminars with the kids to handle this newfound income. I was told it was taken care of, so I can only assume that Genwealth is somehow involved.
I see a windfall for someone like Kadary as an opportunity to improve his life. With the right guidance, he can do good with the funds. Bucket it out, spend some, save some, improve his family’s situation.
You see it as evil and just another way for Kadary to fall into bad influence. As a man of faith, that’s a pretty shitty take. Maybe you should reflect and try seeing the good a young man can do for himself, his loved ones and his community instead of using your prejudice to point to the bad.
I've long advocated for people to lay off college kids when they have an off game, but now that they're becoming paid millionaires that argument loses a little steam doesn't it?
Sad, but true. When I enrolled in August of 1989, 4 months after the National Championship (game), we were told that we were, to date, the largest class, with the highest average SAT score, from the largest pool of applicants in history. I think that in the case of Seton Hall, a good case could be made that basketball paved the way for a regional commuter school to become a national university.
Just curious about this mentality across the country. Did Wusu or Posh get lambasted when they returned to SJU? I don't recall that.
You can invest, like you suggest, but not many do so. If he invested and lived frugally the money would definitely provide something good for him and his family for years to come. But he's in his early 20's! Have you been young? It's not likely he invests and lives frugally.
I don't think CM is rooting for it, or expecting it. The annals of history are replete with examples. Look at many of the stories of mega-lottery winners.
You're a full-grown adult with a vehicle north of $75K that has 500HP, per a post from awhile back. At eighteen, I might have killed myself with the same truck. And I don't think it's singling out Kadary, I'll be the first to admit that I probably would have been a threat to myself with a windfall like that at 18-22.
In this new era of college sports it’s all about survival. To put it as simply as possible, if the players poached from our team struggle, it can only benefit Seton Hall. If they thrive, it will only hurt us.
It’s nothing personal, but I hope Kadary is a massive letdown for whoever lands him. I value the success of Seton Hall over players who willingly left the program.
It’s nothing personal, but I hope Kadary is a massive letdown for whoever lands him. I value the success of Seton Hall over players who willingly left the program.
The NCAA conveniently allowed this as to not revenue share their own and go through that process. And they keep losing in court anyway.
Contracts is all that will solve this. NIL like this is still a new thing but at some point the NIL money should be tied to a contract. I mean Repole is handing over cash with no strings attached? Then the contracts are NIL, entirely outside NCAA. Sounds kike some out there already may do this but it’s not universal.
Contracts is all that will solve this. NIL like this is still a new thing but at some point the NIL money should be tied to a contract. I mean Repole is handing over cash with no strings attached? Then the contracts are NIL, entirely outside NCAA. Sounds kike some out there already may do this but it’s not universal.
I get that and agree. I hope these kids do get the guidance and it’s why, as a CFP, I offered my time to work with the athletic department and help each of them.
I don’t care much about picking up a few small accounts and likely a lot of money will be spent right up front - no doubt. I was in it to give back to the school and provide education.
But if someone could get in their ear early, educate them on schedule C (as SPK said, there will be potential write offs against income), pay taxes, PAY YOUR FUTURE (read - invest some), and buy yourself a few treats in the moment for your hard work, this could be, dare I say, life changing money.
I had a change of heart and traded in the Durango SRT…
Opted for the 700+ HP of the Durango Hellcat. 😂
Jokes aside, you’re 100% right. These kids WILL NOT inherently make good decisions without guidance. They need the right people with the right intentions in their ears, and I’d put that responsibility on the schools/collectives. But maybe that’s being naive thinking a small Catholic university would care. Big state school? NFW
Look, we used to have a light touch regarding players because they were young. Not anymore! They are now professionals. They are getting paid better than the G-League pays. So they should be treated as professionals. Have to sign contracts. No soft pedaling. Multi year contracts with performance clauses. Don’t perform, don’t get paid. Get hurt, unless you are insured too bad. If the coach feels you are not working out mid season. Pull the contract. Scholarships? Why? They are playing for pay. Why should the school fund their education. If they want to be student athletes, then as a student they should pay their way. They will get paid their NIL money. This is no longer a college/player relationship. It is a professional worker college relationship. They have to do their jobs or get out. The coach needs to bring back the control. It is no longer a situation where the “student “ needs to have control. They are not students. They are guns for hire. They should be treated that way. Sorry but I think some really tough stances need to be taken. No love. Just show up, do your job or get the hell out!
If you're referencing my comment, that isn't what I said. Had Holloway known Richmond was going elsewhere, despite our best offer, would there have been enough NIL to keep Davis?
Assuming this is true, I can't imagine it's even possible for us to make the numbers close enough for the decision to be difficult. He's best player in the portal, one of the best players in the sport, and some of the biggest money schools (Arkansas and Kentucky chief among them) are starting from scratch with their rosters. I don't even think St. John's can afford him. .
Yes, this was alluded to in several places when Wusu was being recruited here last year. Now that he's apparently moving on, the story is Wusu physically assaulted a team manager. Anderson swept it, and numerous other things that weren't good, "under the rug" so to speak. When SJU's new President -- whatever his name is, but the guy from Providence that our Providence poster here speaks glowingly about -- apparently found out about this and stuff going on with the team, he was aghast.
Yes, but we didn't have to take them because of the "time honored" tradition of not taking a kid from another conference school. They could have played at plenty of other schools. Once the first shoe dropped with a kid going to another in-conference school, the door was open and there's no looking back.
I figured, all things being equal, KR would have preferred to stay with Sha. But obviously all things were not going to be equal.
The reality is that it's not for us to judge how these players spend their newfound wealth. This is simple capitalism at play; they have the right to earn as much as they're offered.
Agree. I’m sure it’ll be very soon where a player sues a school and/or ncaa for mandating class/gpa requirements (however low that may even be). Considering he can call himself an employee of the basketball team. Separate from a student.
What kind of contract would have that kind of clause? SMH.
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