While I don't believe Congress needs to be voting on issues like this and don't know of a solid argument as to why it shouldn't be allowed, the act of Congress voting on something like this actually is our system of government at work. Separation of powers is a good thing.
Roe v Wade
- Thread starter Pirata
- Start date
Yep, exactly.
Had Thomas not hinted that the court should revisit Griswold, this vote would be unnecessary. Since he mentioned it specifically in his opinion, congress realized they need a law to protect access to birth control. That is why they had the vote, and it is exactly what they should be doing.
They voted against a totally meaningless bill that was nothing but a political ploy. To say they voted to ban contraceptives is an obvious attempt to deflect and misinform. Is that what you heard on MSNBC? Nice job.
BTW..... not to worry.... if you are NJ a woman can get an abortion right as the baby's head is crowning..... proud of that?
...even if she's 13 and from Nebraska.
More political theater with the midterms coming up.
a ploy? its a fact. it just happened. the bill is available to all.
this is a convo on birth control. why are you strawmanning it? strawman should be the jumpman logo of the brain trust here.
gotta remember some of the ones youre speaking to will never have pull out as a prospect
Not really. Justice Thomas said the right to contraceptives is not a right in his view. Dems want to codify the right.
In NJ, the decision to have an abortion will be decided between a woman and her doctor. Not by government bureaucrats.
With no parental consent, without regard for resident status, and at any time up until birth. Oh, and subsidized by taxpayers. That isn't reasonable legislation.
You didn't have any problem when Grewal was filing suit after suit versus the Trump administration. Most AG's are political hacks.
I am not supportive of abortion on demand, but disagree with the Ohio law, if it has not been amended since 2019.
You think a girl who is not responsible enough to make a decision on her own to have an abortion is responsible enough to raise a child?
and on late term abortions, Buttigieg said it well.
"Let’s put ourselves in the shoes of a woman in that situation. If it’s that late in your pregnancy, that means almost by definition, you’ve been expecting to carry it to term. We’re talking about women who have perhaps chosen a name, who have purchased a crib. Families that then get the most devastating medical news of their lifetime. Something about the health or life of the mother that forces them to make an impossible, unthinkable choice… As horrible as that choice is, that woman, that family, may seek spiritual guidance, they may seek medical guidance, but that decision is not going to be made any better, medically or morally, because the government is dictating how that decision should be made,"
NJ And You, Perfect Together: Come For The Abortion, Stay For the Beaches
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anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0
Guest
No, I support exceptions for that. I don't support exceptions for some idiot who decided to get pregnant on a whim. Abortion is not birth control.
because theyre a child who made a mistake. they cant vote why? why are they treated differently, explain please
No straw man..... the dem phony vote on contraception was precipitated by the roe v wade decision. Pointing out that even with the decision you can still get an abortion right up to the moment of birth.... The "convo" was about Roe v Wade.... abortion.... making the discussion of the contraceptive vote the straw man
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Deciding to get pregnant at that age is not a mistake. It's a conscious decision and an incredibly serious error in judgement that has consequences.
Because the Supreme Court held that abortion should go back to the states, Justice Thomas was using the same logic to say that contraception perhaps should also go back to the states. He did not say that contraception should be banned. A poster above called the Dem vote to codify "political theatre"..... a very apt description.
Regarding your comment on my second point:
It is interesting to me how abortion apologists never address how abortions take place. I don't want to upset anyone's sensibilities and describe how abortions become more invasive the further along a pregnancy progresses. Suffice it to say that NJ allows the most barbaric and inhumane methods to be used on living and breathing human beings to satisfy "a woman's right to choose". You can couch it in any spin you want to but there is something wrong with that picture.
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i brought up a new topic on this thread. the vote on the conreaception bill.
how was it phony? and why did reps vote against it? do u disagree with anything in the bill specifically?
i dont want a strawman answer. i want specific answers to what i just asked. thx
they arent deciding to get pregnant thats the thing. if kids always make good concious decisions then why cant they vote?
is it because their brain scientifically isnt done maturing?
why arent they tried as adults? im just really dying for the answers to these.
youre not even getting backed up by the brain trust on this one. you dont remember what it was like to be that age because youre so ungodly boring you were never given the opportunity to make a bad decision apparently. and you dont have kids, so youll never actually understand that side of the coin.
kids have hormones, they makw bad decisions, they cant comprehend consequences of all their actions. they can tell right from wrong, but thats not the case here.
everyone is pretty much in agreement njs stance is ridiculous. im pro abortion with restrictions, which is how most states operate and makes the most sense. i dont know many people if at all that support abortion at 9months. unless something is found to be dangerous health wise that could really harm the individual. its a massive decision, 9 months may be quick to come to a decision in that regard. but its not overnight. sometimes decisions have to be made. make them before the pregnancy goes too far.
if i was in nj i would strongly support changing their law.
https://www.axios.com/2022/07/22/gop-senators-weigh-supporting-bill-protecting-birth-control-access
Good summary as to why the pushback and alternative bi-partisan efforts.
Good summary as to why the pushback and alternative bi-partisan efforts.
An example of a mistake is forgetting to turn in your homework on time, not deciding to have a child and then aborting it. That's more like willful neglect.
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Thanks.
From that piece:
“Between the lines: Democrats are eager to force Republicans on the record as not supporting birth control in the wake of the Supreme Court overturning the federal right to abortion — and only months before the midterm elections. But there's a chance that a messaging bill could wind up being something more.”
getting pregnant is absolutely a mistake. im sorry you never had the opportunity to make that mistake. is doesnt mean you were smart and mature at that age.
kids dont realize how easy it is to get pregnant. sometimes BC doesnt work (because they dont understand how scheduled medicine works either) , condoms fail, pullouts fail. teenagers dont think more than 1 min in the future. and think about how poor sex education is. adults have "oops" babies more than you would think. probably half of them. its just that they are well equipped to handle it.
if teens can never make mistakes, why dont we charge them as adults? i mean, crime is straight up right vs wrong which is pretty cut and dry for them. yet we wipe their record at age 18. why?
im sensing a little bit of vindictiveness from you
Glad you oppose the NJ law. I am in NJ and I didn't see a groundswell of opposition to the Bill. It was passed in NJ legislature by Dem assembly and senate. We'll see in next round of statewide elections if those who voted for the bill remain in office. Even though NJ almost got rid of Murphy last go round..... I am not convinced yet we'll have a red wave in NJ especially at the state legislator level.
So tell me at what point do you break with your pro choice stance....... when does a woman not have the right to get abortion on demand..... 8 months? 7 months? 6..... 5? When a heartbeat is detected? When the baby feels pain?
Nothing but excuses. Yes, I do think they should be charged as adults for serious crimes. They sometimes are. Not enough IMO.
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anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0
Guest
Teenagers dont have the intent to get pregnant. Things happen and it doesnt make them a bad person, with that said I am pro-life.
They're also smart enough to realize what could happen, yet too many simply excuse it as if it's equivalent to getting in a fender bender.
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anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0
Guest
If you're talking about grown adults I fully agree and think sick people use abortion as a contraceptive. I disagree when we're talking 16 year old kids. I still dont endorse abortion in that situation.
Thomas said a previous decision should be revisited to overturn what is now a right of everyone in the country. If we want that to continue to be a right for all, we need a new law according to Thomas. That is what congress is supposed to do.
I’m personally against abortion. I just don’t buy into the narrative that these are just irresponsible women who are being lazy and wait until they are 8 months pregnant before having an abortion. It’s extremely rare when it occurs and it isn’t just because they don’t want a baby at that point.
I just don’t think the decisions on why and when should be up to me, or anyone else other than a woman and her doctor really.
Im sure politics is a large part, like most bills… but there would not have even been a vote on this if Thomas didn’t call it out specifically, in a bill which reversed an established precedent. Let’s not pretend Dems are just pushing this for no reason.
Maybe for teens there should be a requirement for them (and their parents), to discuss all options. There is nothing wrong with providing education and information that might preserve a life.
I get that... but you then deny that a child in the womb has any rights. You're saying it's up to the mother and doctor to arbitrarily determine that? This is a thorny issue for sure but those "who personally are pro life" but recognize only that the doctor and mom can determine when that life begins are ignoring the other half of the equation...... the child. They are also denying what science has been able to determine regarding the child's development in the womb.
Then they should be required to get the education/information in advance of any decision on their own.
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