Shaheen Holloway
- Thread starter MTOleBlue
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Are you saying that sarcastically or is there a specific starting lineup when everyone is healthy that you would to see?
I don't know (nor can anyone). I just know I don't like the entrenching of a narrative that it's all about the players he acquired, not what he has done with them. Accountability and changes are needed for both.
Agree. Willard lost to St Peters and FDU in a season, but this season is beyond bad is right.
And the year before that they were 3-15 in BE play and roster was young or lacked top talent.
Fu - Junior
Cosby - sophomore
Teague - Junior
Oliver - Junior
Mobley - Sophmore
Auda - Junior
Mayaan - Frosh
Plus Karlis, Geramipoor, Kevin Johnson, and Kyle Smyth
The difference is you could build off of the players growing into more experienced upperclassmen, combined with Sterlin Gibbs joining the roster as a sit out transfer.
And even then the team only progressed to 6-12 and included the St. Peter’s and FDU losses you mentioned.
Now, we are crossing our fingers that there is a plan to keep Isaiah Coleman, and then potentially keeping 1 or 2 other guys, but starting all over after that.
We could be patient and get behind what happened under Willard, because you saw development, got to know the players, cared about their future and the team’s future collectively.
None of these comparisons are applicable to today’s game.
And what Sha went through in years 1 and 2 isn’t comparable to year 3 because the landscape has so radically changed.
At the end of the year, Sha needs to be compared to other schools in 2024-25, from big conferences, with budgets less than their peer groups, and see how he stacks up in that capacity.
My guess is, it won’t look good. But if we are comparing him to schools who end up 4-16 in their conference and were an afterthought for the NCAA tournament, then maybe there is actually more to this NIL thing after all.
We are KP #170 today. That is by far our worst since 1997 which is the oldest data available. The precious worst was #117 with Willard in 2012-13.
Welcome to the abyss.
Welcome to the abyss.
and it might cause him to jump ship. i suspect he'll give next year a complete redo. and if money is an issue again he'll leave. and it wont matter for us. this season was rock bottom and nobody is going to come in and light the world on fire.
maybe the simple answer is that what the coaches are saying is true.
Maybe they like the fact that they now have 2 guaranteed wins every year?? Or is it a case of professional courtesy?
maybe, just maybe, we have no money. is that really that hard to grasp?
He makes $2.5 million per year, hasn’t made a tournament, and is overseeing the tanking of our program (we can debate all day if that’s his fault or not…not the point). Unless he is looking for a pay cut or life back in the mid majors, he’s not “jumping ship.”
Unfortunately, I don't see Coleman returning. I'd imagine he could get at least Seton Hall money at another "school" that has better post-season prospects.
No I was serious. There are many combinations of starting lineups that were never put on the court. Here is one as an example.
Center Spot: Mbaye starting with Godswill and Okorafor as substitutes
Forwards: Gus and Middleton starting with Tubek, Prince and Toumi as subs
Guards: Felton and Coleman starting with Wusu, Chaunce and Dual as subs
This is exactly it.
It’s what a lot of posters have trouble understanding: one season doesn’t make everything — great or horrible.
This board lives in extremes and wants to summarize careers or talents based on recency bias.
There are some that just don’t like players or coaches and wait to pounce. And then there are a bunch that can’t wait to confirm their “predictions” of a player being good.
Sha being both a good coach but having a horrible year are each true. He gambled this year with a theory he thought he could win by.
He’s losing big time with that idea.
But it also doesn’t mean he can’t learn, get guys that have talent and win.
The reason for concern is warranted. There was improvement from year 1-2 with a roster of main contributors from the previous staff. There were 2 transfer players brought in last year that contributed & Coleman who showed potential but also a few that were big time misses. Then this year happened.
Pitino has his eye$ on a few other former top-20 NYC guards who did a year of vacation down South with the co-eds and now may want to come back home and play for HOF coach and get ready for the pros
Why?
He will ne able to name his stats next year get paid decently and develop to a possible pro.
He can always chase the money his senior year.
Get transfers that come from winning programs.
Seton Hall's transfers came from programs that had a combined record of 134-142 last season for a winning pct. of 0.486.
Louisville's transfers came from programs that had a combined record of 335-153 last season for a winning pct. of 0.686.
Louisville was 8-24 last season. This season they are currently 15-5 and ranked 25th in the AP Poll.
Seton Hall's transfers came from programs that had a combined record of 134-142 last season for a winning pct. of 0.486.
Louisville's transfers came from programs that had a combined record of 335-153 last season for a winning pct. of 0.686.
Louisville was 8-24 last season. This season they are currently 15-5 and ranked 25th in the AP Poll.
You consistently assume that "getting stats" is best for a kid's professional prospects or developments, and I just don't think that's true based on what we see consistently and repeatedly with the NBA.
Moreover, why is staying at Seton Hall right now automatically best for any kid's development? That's an individual thing, no? And, while I love Sha, can you say with a straight face after watching the last few years that there is no other coach, staff and program in the country that can possibly offer better player development than Seton Hall? Again, love Sha, but I also try to be realistic on this stuff. Think of the coaches in the Big East alone.
There you go again with your logic and common sense take on things. How dare you!
Good points but who is to say whether or not what's right? Can you tell me if dre davis or Richmond would be a better players if they stayed at the hall?
No one knows .
If we have another season even close to this, nobody who matters will give a crap about Isaiah and his stats.
He'll be invisible anyway because no one will be watching.
He'll be considered a player who stayed with a bad program to pad his stats because somebody has to score on a bad team.
If he goes to a solid P4 and is a strong second or third option, he'll put up nice numbers and be noticed while also getting paid. In the right spot, he'll also get to play in the NCAAT.
When we were down 13 to DePaul and on the verge of 0-20 in the Big East, I wondered if Shaheen would or should offer to resign. Don't know if 1-19 is a lot better. If he did/does, though, are owe any better-off without him? I say no. Doesn't appear there is an Ed Cooley waiting in the wings.
Kevin Willard was given a 4th … and 5th year here to be the head coach. If you’re too young to remember the 2010-2015 Pirates teams we weren’t just bad at basketball, we were bad at recruiting, Willard ran some terrible offenses, he was bad at PR, and our players did some very embarrassing things.
As bad as things are right now, and it’s BAD, Holloway should absolutely be given a 4th and 5th year to try and set this ship on the right course. He bleeds SHU blue as much as anyone.
As bad as things are right now, and it’s BAD, Holloway should absolutely be given a 4th and 5th year to try and set this ship on the right course. He bleeds SHU blue as much as anyone.
I don't know if I would call 3 or 4 posters tearing down everything about the school, program, team and coach every day for most of the season a majority. What is clear is that they are not well, not gainfully employed, and not a significant positive force for the program on or off ($) this message board.
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Willard had intervention #1 to sell off assistant coaching positions that allowed him to survive until that 2014 class arrived. Then intervention #2 after that disaster of a first season with them in 2015. The rest is history with the second-best stretch in program history and he’ll be a HOFer at The Hall.
Times have changed. What Holloway tried to accomplish last offseason has proven to be an epic disaster and his frustration in coaching this group has been clear. Time for intervention #1. And get this man some legit money, this is ridiculous.
Yea, I get the frustration, but as I've posted numerous times, I don't get the desire to move on from Sha, or even the notion that Sha is somehow in "hot water". Sha is a long, long way from the so-called "hot seat". For tons of reasons. One can be critical of aspects of the coaching and player evaluation while, at the same time, believing Sha is still the guy to be here and deserves a long rope. Not to mention, what is the realistic alternative?
Every good coach takes a long look in the mirror every season, especially one like this. I'm sure Sha has already done that. I don't doubt his passion or commitment for a second.
nuff said. the one issue is we have 10+ more games we gotta sit through. but your sentiment should endure
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