2,000 dead is 2,000 dead and unfortunately it’s going to get worse. Why not US/NATO gone them a fighting chance followed by sanctions?
SOTU
- Thread starter HALL85
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Maybe we considered alternatives and deemed them to be a greater risk?
Not saying 2k is good but again, none of us here have any understanding of the intelligence involved, what our options were, what was offered or asked for etc. Everyone here thought Russia would just steamroll their way through, and I don't think we really understand why they didn't. Maybe 2k is the alternative from a path where its 50-100k. None one us know that.
You’re missing the point. How does giving Ukraine more support create more casualties?? This is what Zelensky was begging for.
We did give support and a decent amount of it. Like I said, we just don't know what doing more really means.
Maybe more makes Putin more aggressive? Maybe the other countries aren't as responsive to the sanctions and a unified response which again could make Putin more aggressive.
You're just only viewing this as something bad happened so the alternative must be better but we have no idea if that is true or not.
keep in mind the outrage with this number is coming from someone who has not been nearly as adamant about the hundreds of thousands extra deaths from covid.
Keep in mind that you're an idiot. I never minimized the deaths from COVID...contrary, some of the decisions that were made that led directly to unnecessary deaths (nursing homes in NY State for instance) are criminal, but carry on....
Half correct IMO.
Garland's softened directive to "work with" was in direct response to the NSBA letter which said parents should be considered Domestic terrorist. While NBSA subsequently apologized for the language, IMO the message sent by the Biden/DOJ response was a failure.
So I am happy to revise my CRT failure claim. We have some big issues with local school districts centered on CRT. CRT is not popular with many parents. It is divisive. Biden appoints a CRT activist to his cabinet. Biden's DOJ launches an unprecedented "work with" directive to the FBI. How about just saying that threats and such will not be tolerated and will prosecuted accordingly.
Instead of, "In the coming days, the Department will announce a series of measures designed to address the rise in criminal conduct directed toward school personnel."
I would prefer to see:
In the coming days, the Department will announce a series of measures designed to address the rise in criminal conduct directed toward police officers, looting of retail stores, and other crime.
The message I get, is you can shoot cops, loot stores by don't get out of line at a school board meeting. That is failure.
yea you essentially have. constantly pushing your biased point about the horror of mandates essentially ignores the 800k+ people who died of , you know the actual virus.
and if you think youre still correct, just know thats how youve come across. right or wrong. much more up in arms about the 2k ukrainians. not even willing to entertain merges point that it could be worse, but so quick to point out how covid policies made things worse. you see?
Nope, that's in your hollow head. Two separate issues; both horrific...thousands dead and now over a million refugees, with no sight to a near term end in Ukraine. If you think that's not a big deal, I can't help you.
but you have trouble seeing merges point. you cant apply the same logic. why is that? perhaps any additional policies/support etc could make it worse than 2000. why dont you jump lightspeed on that research like you did for the covid mandates? he could very well be right.
and that's the thing. I'm not arguing that he is 100% wrong.
I just don't think any of us have a real understanding of the environment, the intelligence, how much we sent previously, why we sent that much, Putin's plans, etc...
To be critical of Biden somehow because there are 2k dead is really just a short sighted view of something that may not have been preventable and could have potentially been worse. Need to understand the alternative paths to have that discussion, but none of us here have any understanding of that.
Nothing. We shouldn't be involved in a regional conflict.
Not happening. Inflation will continue because the price of crude and oil is going up or will continue to stay very high which will lead to higher transportation costs, higher heating costs and has already lead to huge increases at the pump (45-48% since Biden became President). It's a done deal right now for a while until this administration actually does something.
This administration is doing everything they can do to limit US production because they don't want to piss off the green folks in their party while our economy is still largely dependent on fossil fuels. They released a tiny bit from our reserves that will do nothing for the price of gas. Instead now they are doing a deal with who you say IRAN - WTF? Let's not deal with those foreigners in Texas and Oklahoma that can produce a ton of oil, let's instead make a deal with a rogue state to help them fund their nuclear ambitions? Our administration has still not come out and said let's cut Russian oil purchases. Instead the US oil companies are doing that now. This is our current administration which still has deep ties to China and Russia through the likes of Hunter Biden, Pelosi family members and others. Not only is Europe deep in bed with Russia but so are we. These are the people that run the world and they are "leading us" (on or over a cliff) while getting rich doing it. And its not just Dems because they have the presidency either.
We can be energy independent by allowing more US production but they have done everything to go to war with the US oil and gas industry. This is not helping.
Never said I was 100% right. We clearly could have done more to prepare the Ukrainians to defend themselves (U.S. and NATO). There has been a build-up for weeks...it was pretty obvious Putin was moving in after the Olympics ended (which now seems to be confirmed). Like a hurricane moving up the coast and waiting to buy a generator after the storm hits. Zelensky has been asking for help...it's been drips and drabs with NATO. My opinion is that he should have done more to help them. We have Afghanistan as an example of too little too late and being surprised by the enemy. So this isn't the first time.
None of that is really true though.
There was a blip caused by the pandemic, but we're producing way more than we have historically. We are importing less and we are exporting more.
We are buying more oil from Russia the last few years that is a fact and there are reasons for it that make sense but now those reasons have to go. It is all true. Is it true we shut down the pipeline? Is it true that since Biden has been in they have made it harder to get new wells approved? All true and part of the green initiative when we don't have enough green alternatives to invest in. And why do you think they want more EVs but they won't give rebates and incentives for any EV producer that isn't union?
But even on this board people were assuming Russia steamrolls through before they went in. We weren't surprised that this was going to happen. We were helping them prepare.
I just think it's wrong to place blame on this administration for not doing more. Like I said, maybe our response helped to keep that 2k from being 50k. None of us know.
It's harder to get new leases because they don't need new leases when they have this much production and are not utilizing the leases currently available. The pipeline was shut down, but again - That was not US oil.
There are rebates and incentives for non-union EVs. I have two and the incentives were great. They wanted additional incentives for union made cars to encourage the cars being made by companies that have foreign manufacturing to build them in America.
No one will ever know if the administration should have done more. They have to be careful with the guy who has nukes.
At the same time, it is very telling how many Euros and Americans with deep political ties are close to Russia and Putin and Xi Jinping for that matter. Dem or Republican, these ties should be questioned significantly but the press won't do it nor will this current administration. Do those ties have consequences on how we acted and how we are acting now? You better believe they do. Follow the money...
Maybe, but I personally would tend to be more concerned with what the opinions of US intelligence experts were.
We've provided weapons, supplies, money, intelligence etc. It's a war. People are going to die and that sucks. I just don't agree with saying we didn't do enough because there is no possible way you can know if that is true or not.
That’s why I said we have to agree to disagree. Personally I don’t think we’ve provided nearly enough. And I think Zelensky is probably in a better position to determine what he needs.
Not for anything but Zelensky wants the US and NATO in the war. Their first effort is to get us to do a no-fly zone. Essentially, the first confrontation puts us at war with Russia. While that May be something Zelensky wants, I don’t think the US wants to start a war over Ukraine.
And I think, the US and NATO believes they can strangle Russia. I expect Russian oil will be barred by next week. I think the American public will risk higher gas prices for this purpose.
His primary requests have been for weapons all along, in fact he’s been pretty consistent about NOT wanting us in Ukraine.
I guess seeing innocent civilians dying on TV makes paying a little bit more for gas palatable. Is that the strategy? How many thousands of lives are worth the time it takes for the strangle to take effect?
