Wisconsin
- Thread starter Hallsome
- Start date
I don't know the answers either. But your premise that taking down an assailant physically is easy is waaay off base especially now with police having little or no backing and so many restrictions on this kind of hold and that kind of hold etc. Shooting them in the back is certainly worse but police training doesn't always encourage police to get in hand to hand combat because you know what can happen? The assailant gets hold of the gun and that is it for the officer.
If this guy listened to the officers he would be alive today and that is the case in so many (not all) of these instances. Sad all around.
My full post cited the rarity of officers firing their weapons. You are posting "no-bullet" videos. Approx 0.001% of police interactions in NYC involved a police office discharging his weapon. Would it stand to reason that there will be more videos not involving bullets. (99.999%)
I see no value in posting those videos and adding any inference.
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anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0
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Show me a situation where someone complies with a police officers requests/commands and gets shot. Every instance is someone not complying and what the hell is a cop to do when someone is ignoring their commands AND now is reaching into their car. Sorry these officers want to make it home to their families. Whether you're white or a minority you need to comply with the police, and of story.
"Legal Issues???" How about facing 9 years in prison with a felony warrant issued.
I would venture a guess that when they ran his plate it came back with the warrant and possible other warnings about the potential danger he posed. Unfortunately the warnings did not include that he was stupid.
In the course of the interaction, the cop draws his weapon and points it at the guy. Anyone in the right mind at that point would comply with the cops commands. The cop knowing that this guy is facing prison might have some cause for concern when thy guy ignores his command and goes back to car to reach for something.
Are you suggesting the cop should calmly wait for the guy to turn around to see if it was a gun? "Oh Mr Blake, I see you have a gun in your hand. Please put that down," yeah right.
If you get your police training from Hollywood, (as evidenced by your post) you might think there is time for speeches and other crap. For shits and giggles, have someone point a loaded gun (one in the chamber) at you and tell me how you feel and how you would act.
My NYPD detective father told me at an early age, "if someone has a gun on you, they own you".
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Do we know the background to this that his vehicle was stopped and they ran the plates? Thought it was presumed that he attempted to intervene in a conflict and then the police came and the skirmish took place.
I guess my pov is that there was one of him and multiple officers, he never should have been allowed to get back to a standing position and circle the vehicle, use a taser, cuff or tie his hands/feet...just because one gets cuffed doesn't mean you are automatically miradized and arrested...now if they run his ID and see outstanding warrant I comprehend that
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anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0
Guest
Ah the fake news narrative that the felon facing 9 years in prison is now a peacemaker until the big bad police showed up and shot him for no reason. Only a sheep believes this bullshit narrative the media pedals.
That may or may not be true. I don't know and I don't care to research it. My response was to a poster 'on your side' who used the stat as an argument to that very debate.
Dont put words in my post KP...i wasnt calling the big bad police showing up nor am i saying the shooting victim sought to be a peacemaker, he clearly intervened into a situation now will a full report be accurate with what lead to patrol being dispatched and all subjects involved?
I don’t have a side, I just stated the fact that more white men are killed by police than black men. Facts don’t have sides.
Suspects are usually only mirandized if they are interrogated. Suspects are rarely read their rights on scenes such as this.
Facts may not have sides, but the purveyor certainly does.
Yeah sure white men are killed more. You win. Let's forget that there are roughly a hundred million more white males than black males.
i agree with this. but i also see a problem with one shot vs 7 in vital areas. is that the plan b for not complying? lol. those arent bean bags. obv tough to truly weigh in if you never served but id have to guess there is a happy medium.
Nobody wins. My post was in response to another poster who seemed to believe that if the suspect was white this would not have happened.
If we are to discuss percentages of population there must be additional factors that include interactions with police and not simply race.
movies and TV warp people’s thinking. Once a police officer decides to shoot, he is trained to empty the Clíp. The amount of shots taken are almost always irrelevant. It’s all about the reasonableness of the police officer’s actions to shoot in order to prevent a life threatening situation. There are so many unknown facts in this case that have to be fleshed out before anyone can say this was a good shoot or bad shoot. Even if a bad shoot, then the question was it criminal. Very facts sensitive. That’s why people who don’t comply with an officer’s commands automatically escalate the situation to be dangerous. I’d like to know more facts before making a judgment.
I agree with this on almost all points, however police are not trained to empty their magazine. They are trained to stop the threat.
Fair point. But it stands that additional percentages also includes population breakdowns. You originally said that was moving the goal post but I don’t think tracks with the post I just quoted.
Good question.
What was the perpetrators prior record?
What was being said to the cop?
What was being seen by the cop?
Where is this video from?
What are the local police procedures?
Lots of questions.
Stats show less than a 1 and 3 chance of a round fired under stress hitting its target. Firing 6 shots is not unreasonable.
Adrenilin has an affect also. I was discussing this yesterday with a colleague. He spoke about cops being interviewed after shooting their weapon. When asked how may rounds they fired they recall shooting 3 buy the actual number was say 7 or more. this was just a conversation so take it FWIW
I found this link which talks about cops not remembering firing at all.
http://www.aele.org/no-recall.html
This link also provides some insight.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/why-police-shoot-so-many-times-to-bring-down-a-suspect-1.5079592
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We do not.
I wrote "I would venture a guess". I was providing a potential scenario in response to your post questioning why deadly force was used.
The reason I mention the plate was because the video showed the police car was parked behind the SUV. Running the plate is routine.
The information available to police in their cars has continued to increase. "Officer Safety" is an often used buzzword justify funds for technology efforts to provide more information. One example is "interest markers". The plate gets run and a warning comes back. "Owner known to have loaded weapon in glove box". This is in addition to the other info such as stolen vehicle, outstanding warrants, etc.
Having said all this, the truth is we do not know the full story and can't make any conclusions on 30 seconds of internet video. It was not my intent to state any of the possibilities as certain.
This is exactly why so many people should not judge an incident until they know the full details. And it shows why it is so hard to be a police officer because the situation can change in a split second. The taser did not work and they used it multiple times. The police showed ridiculous restraint here and as a result may not go home to their families after this incident ever again. This guy resisted and the officer frankly should have shot him after resisting multiple times and faced a jury of peers instead of surgery and likely loss of life or ability to walk around again. The officers were professional, showed no racism at all and could have been killed but I guess they get no credit for doing their difficult jobs.
Blake never listened to the officers, continued to defy their requests, the taser did not work and he was also putting his own family in danger. Would shooting him in the leg have stopped him? Likely not. Should the officers have waited until he turned on them with a gun or knife so they could be killed or injured or a member of his family too? Shooting him multiple times stopped him from hurting anyone else and the officers. You resist repeatedly, act in a crazy manner and appear to be going after a weapon, you pay the price. And that goes for any color, race or creed offender.
I would venture to guess that if these officers had bodycam's they would be cleared after a detailed investigation which is necessary in cases like this. Sad situation for all involved.
For the most part body cams protect the officer. I am a firm believer that all police officers should wear body cams.
Here are some numbers for you:
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/table-43
13% of the population committing 53% of the murders and 54% of the robberies.
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anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0
Guest
Im embarrassed to say I’m a democrat when I read posts like yours and some others here.
Part of the solution IMO is finding a way to provide more job opportunities and more importantly, improve education and trade opportunities to minority communities to improve these statistics. I really believe this can lead to less crime especially for minority men. We have to do better and consider more long-term solutions.
Moderate/unaffiliated/independent is the way to be these days. Don't let a political party define you.
Why? I am unaffliliated. I have voted across both major parties and 3rd parties as I have seen fit based on past elections.
If the shoe was on the other foot I would call it the same way vs the Dems. The house passed this bill, its been sitting on Mighty Mitch's desk going on double digit weeks, put it to vote on the floor.
Instead we have republican senators going on on anti china rhetoric when we all know its more than just the nba and our country is bleeding from the heart.
Our country is not bleeding. A few thousand loud people want you to think that.
You tend to have very liberal viewpoints-was calling him Mighty Mitch 3x a compliment?
Much of the substance of the bill is unnecessary. Police functions are supposed to be within the domain of states unless you’re talking about federal LE
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