Wow - Flu stat

[donnie_baseball]

Exactly. Masks help, but are not 100% effective

If they didn't help, they would ALL have covid because of how contagious it is.

N95 > Surgical > cloth > nothing

I'm not denying that they "help," but you keep saying they "work." They work poorly, and help slightly. Many, many colleagues who work in the acute care setting got COVID, despite the best of properly worn PPE. Yes, it is very contagious, and that is the problem. But masks work poorly. We've been in masked lockdown for a year, now, and have had ~500,000 deaths. Compliance has been good, the masks work poorly. You can tell me how many more cases and deaths we would have had, but it's pure speculation. If we had no flu vaccine, we'd have rolling pandemics every year, except with that virus, masking has been incredibly effective.

 

[Merge]

I'm not denying that they "help," but you keep saying they "work." They work poorly, and help slightly. Many, many colleagues who work in the acute care setting got COVID, despite the best of properly worn PPE. Yes, it is very contagious, and that is the problem. But masks work poorly. We've been in masked lockdown for a year, now, and have had ~500,000 deaths. Compliance has been good, the masks work poorly. You can tell me how many more cases and deaths we would have had, but it's pure speculation. If we had no flu vaccine, we'd have rolling pandemics every year, except with that virus, masking has been incredibly effective.

In all seriousness though, Doctors and nurses are around covid patients constantly. As masks are not 100% effective, of course some would still get Covid... but they would ALL be sick if masks didn't work.

Every study about the effectiveness of masks shows that they help. I'm not trying to quantify anything other than saying that they help and were our only tool outside of distance.

And yes, they would be more effective for he flu since flu droplets are larger and do not hang around in the air as long.

 

[SHUSA]

I'm not denying that they "help," but you keep saying they "work." They work poorly, and help slightly. Many, many colleagues who work in the acute care setting got COVID, despite the best of properly worn PPE. Yes, it is very contagious, and that is the problem. But masks work poorly. We've been in masked lockdown for a year, now, and have had ~500,000 deaths. Compliance has been good, the masks work poorly. You can tell me how many more cases and deaths we would have had, but it's pure speculation. If we had no flu vaccine, we'd have rolling pandemics every year, except with that virus, masking has been incredibly effective.

isnt it just as much speculation to say they work poorly? speculation to say we wouldnt have twice the amount of cases/deaths without masks? lucky we decided to err on the side of caution since masks really arent too hard to wear for a year.

lots of documentation up earlier in the thread that shows theyre perhaps a bit better than poor.

 

[SHUSA]

what is with the moronic logic that just because its super effective for the flu doesnt mean it cant be effective for anything else? outrageous logic.

copd meds and anticoagulants are super effective for their specific indication, and somewhat effective for covid treatment. yea lets toss em and treat with nothing instead. same big brain logic.

 

[donnie_baseball]

In all seriousness though, Doctors and nurses are around covid patients constantly. As masks are not 100% effective, of course some would still get Covid... but they would ALL be sick if masks didn't work.

Every study about the effectiveness of masks shows that they help. I'm not trying to quantify anything other than saying that they help and were our only tool outside of distance.

And yes, they would be more effective for he flu since flu droplets are larger and do not hang around in the air as long.

Agreed, before the vaccine we had nothing else. And until the vaccine is widely distributed, that is still the case. It's not simple, though. I got COVID in July, and was on 2 long car rides (unmasked, obviously) with my family, and in the same bed as my wife, and I was the only one who got sick. I have seen this numerous times, too.

I'm pointing out the significant shortcomings of the measures we have taken because the hope is that we handle this differently next time -- which may be next fall, with a variant. Vaccinate the high risk and health care workers; the elderly and those at risk with comorbidities should stay home, and shop-from-home services be made readily available to them, specifically. Businesses should not be shut down or limited, and those who are otherwise healthy or low risk can make their own decisions. Among those, they should be advised to AVOID family that has been advised to stay home.

 

[donnie_baseball]

isnt it just as much speculation to say they work poorly? speculation to say we wouldnt have twice the amount of cases/deaths without masks? lucky we decided to err on the side of caution since masks really arent too hard to wear for a year.

lots of documentation up earlier in the thread that shows theyre perhaps a bit better than poor.

They work piss poorly. So poorly, in fact, that now you're supposed to layer one on top of another. I haven't seen anyone make your second point, that because they work for flu, they don't work for anything else? Two different particles.

 

[SHUSA]

They work piss poorly. So poorly, in fact, that now you're supposed to layer one on top of another. I haven't seen anyone make your second point, that because they work for flu, they don't work for anything else? Two different particles.

no, dont wanna check that against any of the numerous studies?

layering it doesnt prove anything. if the mask works 50% effective but you want 100%, put on another. doesnt mean it isnt helping. because the drawback is you have to wear a mask for 10 mins. aka no drawback at all

just like the vaccine... is the first one so piss poor that you have to get another? by your logic yes. oops! 93% efficacy for shot #1!! why are we giving a 2nd? some bad bad logic being thrown out.

shu09 has made that argument this entire time, and you also threw out flu/masks as just a coincidence im sure. if theyre separate than stop talking about them. but you havent so you must think it supports your stance.

 

[donnie_baseball]

no, dont wanna check that against any of the numerous studies?

layering it doesnt prove anything. if the mask works 50% effective but you want 100%, put on another. doesnt mean it isnt helping. because the drawback is you have to wear a mask for 10 mins. aka no drawback at all

just like the vaccine... is the first one so piss poor that you have to get another? by your logic yes. oops! 93% efficacy for shot #1!! why are we giving a 2nd? some bad bad logic being thrown out.

shu09 has made that argument this entire time, and you also threw out flu/masks as just a coincidence im sure. if theyre separate than stop talking about them. but you havent so you must think it supports your stance.

A vaccine and it's booster are not even a reasonable comparison to putting a second mask over the first. And putting on a second mask doubles the efficacy? I would question that, as well.
To me, recommending a second mask means that wearing one is not doing well enough. I wear my mask everywhere I'm required to, and don't see any downside to wearing one. I think SHU09 listens to Bill Spadea (morning show on 101.5FM), and while I respect the devil's advocate point of view, I think that it goes too far in that case.

Comparing flu cases is fair because we have pretty much had no flu season this year, and I think it's because of mask-wearing, and the good overall compliance with it. By the same token, we've had 2 bad peaks of COVID while masking and locking down, which begs the question of how effective the masks have been.

 

[Merge]

Comparing flu cases is fair because we have pretty much had no flu season this year, and I think it's because of mask-wearing,

I don't really take issue with that. Everything we have done to prevent the spread of covid has also helped prevent the spread of the flu but I do think you are leaving a pretty major factor.

Studies have shown that you are more likely to spread Covid earlier before the onset of symptoms compared to the flu. In years before this one, how likely would you be to walk around in public when you started to feel sick?
How likely would you have been to go to work while you feel sick? Do you think people are out and about with symptoms like they were in previous years? Are kids going to school with the sniffles like they would have in previous years?

The simple step of not going out when you feel sick by itself would help with flu transmission if we all agreed to just do that... however, that would not be the case with Covid.

 

[donnie_baseball]

I don't really take issue with that. Everything we have done to prevent the spread of covid has also helped prevent the spread of the flu but I do think you are leaving a pretty major factor.

Studies have shown that you are more likely to spread Covid earlier before the onset of symptoms compared to the flu. In years before this one, how likely would you be to walk around in public when you started to feel sick?
How likely would you have been to go to work while you feel sick? Do you think people are out and about with symptoms like they were in previous years? Are kids going to school with the sniffles like they would have in previous years?

The simple step of not going out when you feel sick by itself would help with flu transmission if we all agreed to just do that... however, that would not be the case with Covid.

True, and that cultural shift should improve all infectious disease numbers in the future, the one silver lining in all of this, perhaps? Even still, 29mil confirmed COVID cases to date versus how many of flu? 1500? (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm)

Logically, you could say that with all the interventions (patron limitations, mask mandates, working remotely, school closures/hybrids, distancing, etc.) we have essentially no flu activity (yet), and got hit hard twice (at the end of flu season last year, and the beginning of flu season this year) by COVID, but flu has been nearly non-existent.

You could also argue that ALL of these measures are failing, relatively. But I'm not arguing against any or all of them. You have to TRY to do something. So what it boils down to is, IMHO: Is compliance with all of the measures much, much worse than we think? Or is this a virus, with no vaccine or effective treatment for months, that was going to infect most of our population regardless of the measures taken to control it?

 

[shu09]

Texas and Mississippi to end the mask mandate and open all businesses 100%. Freedom is on the march.

 

[shufan1993]

Texas and Mississippi to end the mask mandate and open all businesses 100%. Freedom is on the march.

I hope history does not look unkindly on these decisions.
@Merge Are you fine with texas and Mississippi opening up 100%?

 

[Merge]

I would have waited until they had the time needed to at least vaccinate those in the higher risk groups.

I think it was a bit premature.

 

[SHUSA]

Texas and Mississippi to end the mask mandate and open all businesses 100%. Freedom is on the march.

thats great texas competely bungles emergemcy relief, power logistics, etc but the people will forget all that because they got to take the mask off!

 

[shu09]

thats great texas competely bungles emergemcy relief, power logistics, etc but the people will forget all that because they got to take the mask off!

One has nothing to do with the other.

Also, you can still wear your mask in Texas if you want to. Nobody is stopping you. The point is the government shouldn't be telling people they have to. If you want to wear one, great! Have at it. If you don't, fine.

 

[SHUSA]

One has nothing to do with the other.

Also, you can still wear your mask in Texas if you want to. Nobody is stopping you. The point is the government shouldn't be telling people they have to. If you want to wear one, great! Have at it. If you don't, fine.

yes i know. i wonder what the % of people that still wear masks once mandates are over

 

[Merge]

Also, you can still wear your mask in Texas if you want to. Nobody is stopping you. The point is the government shouldn't be telling people they have to. If you want to wear one, great! Have at it. If you don't, fine.

Like pants...

The mask is not a personal choice. It is a tool for providing some level of protection within a community, but since they are not incredibly effective by themselves, they only work at all if almost everyone is wearing them. I support them until we have have had a chance to protect those who are most at risk through vaccinations.

We are very close. It's just a bit early.

 

[shu09]

Like pants...

The mask is not a personal choice. It is a tool for providing some level of protection within a community, but since they are not incredibly effective by themselves, they only work at all if almost everyone is wearing them. I support them until we have have had a chance to protect those who are most at risk through vaccinations.

We are very close. It's just a bit early.

No, not like pants. Stupid comparison.

 

[Merge]

No, not like pants. Stupid comparison.

The government shouldn't be telling people they need to wear pants. If you have an aversion to seeing naked guys walking around, you can stay home.

 

[shu09]

The government shouldn't be telling people they need to wear pants. If you have an aversion to seeing naked guys walking around, you can stay home.

It's a societal standard of decency. Wearing a mask is not. You're smarter than this.

 

[Merge]

It's a societal standard of decency. Wearing a mask is not. You're smarter than this.

So, pants are a societal standard of decency because people won't want to see naked people walking around but a mask is not a societal standard of decency during a global pandemic which has killed hundreds of thousands of Americans and millions of people globally?

 

[shu09]

So, pants are a societal standard of decency because people won't want to see naked people walking around but a mask is not a societal standard of decency during a global pandemic which has killed hundreds of thousands of Americans and millions of people globally?

Correct.

 

[Hallsome]

Like pants...

The mask is not a personal choice. It is a tool for providing some level of protection within a community, but since they are not incredibly effective by themselves, they only work at all if almost everyone is wearing them. I support them until we have have had a chance to protect those who are most at risk through vaccinations.

We are very close. It's just a bit early.

All this progress has happened this winter

no further progress on racial injustice or I guess it was solved

democrats head fake better than Gillespie

 

[Merge]

Correct.

A wildly inconsistent take.

 

[Pirata]

I would have waited until they had the time needed to at least vaccinate those in the higher risk groups.

At risk people can quarantine themselves.

 

[SHUSA]

Correct.

lmao! ok.

 

[shu09]

lmao! ok.

I'm offended!

 

[Merge]

At risk people can quarantine themselves.

Look, if this was day 1 with a couple people dead, I would understand that take... a year later and 520,000+ people who have died from the virus? No. That take is wrong.

At risk people are typically older and rely on others to help care for them. You would need the people who are risk, AND anyone who comes in regular contact with at risk people to quarantine AND anyone who comes in regular contact with them.

Because people feel that a mask is too much of a burden for a few more weeks while we work on vaccinating people?

 

[shu09]

You would need the people who are risk, AND anyone who comes in regular contact with at risk people to quarantine AND anyone who comes in regular contact with them.

Laughable, simply laughable. By the way, what's the average age of those 500,000 deaths? How many over age 70?

 

[Merge]

Laughable, simply laughable. By the way, what's the average age of those 500,000 deaths? How many over age 70?

Yes, you haven't been shy about hundreds of thousands of deaths being bad as laughable.

That is why 520,000 people are dead. You can't just tell at risk people to stay home to avoid risk If they come in contact with anyone, then those people also need to quarantine.

Average age? Probably pretty high.
About 100k have been under 65. Another 100k between 65-75. The rest over 75.

We should care less because it's mostly old people?

 

[shu09]

In New Jersey, 80% of the deaths are 65+. 95.6% over age 50.

People of old age can die from anything because they're naturally at risk. If this virus was killing 18-40 year olds left and right (like Spanish Flu did), then I'd be worried because of the huge impact on our society.

 

[Merge]

In New Jersey, 80% of the deaths are 65+. 95.6% over age 50.

People of old age can die from anything because they're naturally at risk. If this virus was killing 18-40 year olds left and right (like Spanish Flu did), then I'd be worried because of the huge impact on our society.

I guess if I only viewed human worth based on current and future economic input, I might share your view.

Unfortunately, I think old people deserve a little more care/concern than that.

 

[SHUSA]

I'm offended!

at the very least i have some comfort knowing that tho theres a lot of differing opinions, nobody is really offended here. because we realize we may be similar in other opinions (like basketball)

 

[shu09]

at the very least i have some comfort knowing that tho theres a lot of differing opinions, nobody is really offended here. because we realize we may be similar in other opinions (like basketball)

Of course. I'd probably enjoy meeting most (can't guarantee all, LOL) of the people who post on this website.

 

[HALL85]

The thought of Marge walking around today without pants made me quite ill.

 

[anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0]

520,000 dead and people still acting like the virus is nothing lol.

 

[shu09]

520,000 dead and people still acting like the virus is nothing lol.

Out of 330 million. 99% recovery rate. But yeah, let's keep everything shut down!

You know anyone who got it? Anyone who had serious issues? I know a bunch of people who got it. Only one had to go to the hospital and he was home within 2 days.

If you're young (like you are) and not overweight, you're going to be just fine. This really goes for anyone under age 50. Unless you're 45 and 300 lbs., you're at low risk of a bad outcome.

 

[shu09]

 

[SHUSA]

View embedded media

is there an A/B test? what kind of analyst makes this conclusion? imagine the same trend, but on a bigger scale. thats what not wearing a mask would do.

 

[Merge]

what kind of analyst makes this conclusion?

The kind that wants to find support for their belief rather than taking the time to try and understand what the alternative would look like.