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Brady's Four Game Suspension Will Stand

Nobody asked you to. You choose to offer your opinions and clearly lacked some basic knowledge on the subject. I pointed it out. Nobody forced you to chime in.

Once again, you are factually inaccurate. There is a history. Spygate. There was no lying whatsoever. You are entitled to your own opinions. You are not entitled to your own facts. Don't worry, no homework will be assigned.

I've been more than rational and objective here. Within this thread I have called the actions of Brady and the equipment dorks suspicious. I have refused to proclaim his outright innocence and questioned those who choose to do so. I've referred to the damage done to Brady's reputation and called it earned. I'm looking at every angle. I'm biased, because I correct your misinformation? Sure.
So Belichek was forthcoming in the Spygate incident and didn't attempt to claim he misunderstood the rules? I believe I read otherwise, but apparently my memory is failing me in my old age.

Again, my original point was that I felt like there was enough evidence with or without the destroyed? replaced? upgraded to 6s? cell phone to warrant a suspension, but that 4 games was an overreach, and that they have a history of breaking rules and getting caught. If my saying they lied is "factually inaccurate", or just a matter of semantics, that's fine. It can be interpreted in different ways based on what I've read.

Maybe you are unbiased, but as you said I'm entitled to my opinion.

I'm sure you posted this somewhere, but serious question, do you feel that Brady should not receive any suspension?
 
Steve, maybe a better gauge might be the survey reported by ESPN of NFL players. A strong majority do believe (as do I) that Brady was complicit. But those same players don't think it's that big of a deal and that it probably happens throughout the NFL.

That's how I feel as well and believe the overblown penalty is a result of two things.

1. Goodell wanting to show minorities and lesser skilled players he punishes equally

and

2. Brady's unwillingness to cooperate when the subject was first broached.

I think the survey was telling. If air was taken out of any football, I'd be shocked if Brady didn't know about it. I'm ruling out definitely did and definitely didn't do it. I can argue probably did/didn't equally. Neither would surprise me. I read the article and don't dismiss the thought, but feel it's ancillary. My guess:

Main Motivations
Power
Bend the knee or Roger will take your leg and an arm for good measure. Lack of cooperation - unfair.
PR/Appearances.

Secondary
Bad blood - Goodell and Kraft were buddies (not anymore), but there has been a rift between the Pats front office and NFL front office for some time.
Lack of cooperation - fair.
(Edit)Throw some shade on the Kraft relationship and thought he gives Pats preferential treatment and went easy on them on Spygate.
Your point #1.

Definitely not
Integrity of the game.
 
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I'm sure you posted this somewhere, but serious question, do you feel that Brady should not receive any suspension?
The first thing you do is handle it better from the moment the Colts raised a concern and nip it in the bud right then and there. Make it abundantly clear to both teams, you'll have no shenanigans whatsoever and then ensure it. That wouldn't have been hard. Since that didn't happen...

You have to be (or at least should be) consistent with your established policies. Since there is no punishment for being "more probable than not generally aware" of wrong doing, what can you do? You have established player and team equipment violations. Those are paltry fines. You have lack of cooperation. Brett Favre was fined $50K for DickPicGate. Ok, that's not what it was officially called, but it should have been. Goodell attempted to suspend players for lack of cooperation in the Bountygate fiasco and that backfired badly. If you hit Brady with a big fine for lack of cooperation and hit the Pats with a big penalty (which he did), you can get away with it. Otherwise, you end up in court. So, no suspension.
 
Holy crap. clicked on this thread to see why the heck it was still top three thinking this is just about the dumbest sports topic in years and years. And this is what I find.

Guys. Stop. Find someone else to argue with over something that actually matters. This is embarrassing.
 
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Round Three goes to Brady!

Berman says
Berman said:
U.S. District Judge Richard M. Berman said NFL commissioner Roger Goodell went too far in affirming punishment of the Super Bowl-winning quarterback, criticizing him for dispensing "his own brand of industrial justice."

It will be interesting what the Appeals court decides. This is a very curious precedent for other NLRB collective bargaining disputes.
 
Should never have gotten this far.

My take.

1. He did it.

2. Most all QB's do as well.

3. Past Pat's incidents forced Goodall to over pursue this.

4. Brady should have gotten off with a fine.

5. Pat's should have been heavily fined. And maybe lose a mid round draft pick.

6. If Brady didn't act like an ass it would have never come to this.

7. I expect the initial ruling/penalty, unfair as it is to be reinstated.
 
Both the NFL and Brady showed their true colors in all of this. They are made for each other and wasted a Federal Courts valuable time in a matter that has no benefit to society.
 
Berman's ruling basis on procedure not facts:

Berman said:
The Court is fully aware of the deference afforded to arbitral decisions, but, nevertheless,
concludes that the Award should be vacated. The Award is premised upon several significant legal deficiencies, including (A) inadequate notice to Brady of both his potential discipline (four game suspension) and his alleged misconduct; (B) denial of the opportunity for Brady to

examine
one of two lead investigators, namely NFL Executive Vice President and General
Counsel Jeff Pash; and (C) denial of equal access to investigative files, including witness interview notes.

Very Solomonic
 
In the "court of public opinion" -- outside New England and the diaspora --- how will the non-reversed "facts" of the case impact Brady's Hall of Fame vote --- at least on the first ballot?
 
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In the "court of public opinion" -- outside New England and the diaspora --- how will the non-reversed "facts" of the case impact Brady's Hall of Fame vote --- at least on the first found?
It won't impact his Hall of Fame status one bit. He'll be voted for induction the second his name is first brought up at the committee meeting.
 
In the "court of public opinion" -- outside New England and the diaspora --- how will the non-reversed "facts" of the case impact Brady's Hall of Fame vote --- at least on the first ballot?
Being a murderer isn't going to impact Ray Lewis' induction, so a bunch of deflated footballs from a cheater??? lol
 
Berman's ruling basis on procedure not facts:

Very Solomonic

He wasn't going to rule on anything else. Berman kicked the NFL's teeth in, on multiple occasions in his courtroom, regarding their investigation and handling of the appeal. Those in attendance noted he clearly was disgusted and appalled with the NFL's actions. Procedure is what will hold up on appeal.
 
He wasn't going to rule on anything else. Berman kicked the NFL's teeth in, on multiple occasions in his courtroom, regarding their investigation and handling of the appeal. Those in attendance noted he clearly was disgusted and appalled with the NFL's actions. Procedure is what will hold up on appeal.

In my experience, a judge seeking a negotiated settlement will almost always accent the negatives of the more powerful party.

The settlement is fair. The Judge found a technical loophole to fly through. Sloppy work by NFL lawyers --- which would not be surprising for Goodell personally, but his lawyers are paid enough NOT to commit such technical oversights.

But the legal foundation had nothing to do with the investigation, the report nor whether or not it was thorough or sloppy. It was all based on the technical "notice" and "access".

This might not even be appealed due to this egg on their faces.
 
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Should never have gotten this far.

My take.

1. He did it.

2. Most all QB's do as well.

3. Past Pat's incidents forced Goodall to over pursue this.

4. Brady should have gotten off with a fine.

5. Pat's should have been heavily fined. And maybe lose a mid round draft pick.

6. If Brady didn't act like an ass it would have never come to this.

7. I expect the initial ruling/penalty, unfair as it is to be reinstated.

Mine...

1. Possibly. Berman's ruling doesn't make Brady innocent. Still a lack of evidence of Brady's guilt.

2. I think and know first hand there are all types of shenanigans by players in the gamesmanship/minor violation category. If I'm arguing he did it, this is my number one argument. I think PED use is prevalent, yet largely undetected. The world's leading authorities on catching the drug cheaters all admit they're losing the battle.

3. Hubris, pure and unbridled.

4. Yep.

5. Yep.

6. Meh. NFL could have nipped it in the bud by handling it appropriately from minute one and many minutes that followed. The NFL had no intention of being fair or appropriate.

7. I don't.
 
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Being a murderer isn't going to impact Ray Lewis' induction, so a bunch of deflated footballs from a cheater??? lol
Brady will and definitely should get into the HOF.

Between this and the travesty of Spy-gate I would not fully discount the whims of some portion of the all-powerful press-representatives who have the voting power which "protects the sanctity" of the game, to perhaps --- though unlikely --- not give Shady a first year pass.

But you are definitely right about the height of the threshold.
 
In my experience, a judge seeking a negotiated settlement will almost always accent the negatives of the more powerful party.

The settlement is fair. The Judge found a technical loophole to fly through. Sloppy work by NFL lawyers --- which would not be surprising for Goodell personally, but his lawyers are paid enough NOT to commit such technical oversights.

But the legal foundation had nothing to do with the investigation, the report nor whether or not it was thorough or sloppy. It was all based on the technical "notice" and "access".

This might not even be appealed due to this egg on their faces.

Apparently their stupidity knows no boundaries. They're in it to lose until the bitter end!
 
Brady will and definitely should get into the HOF.

Between this and the travesty of Spy-gate I would not fully discount the whims of some portion of the all-powerful press-representatives who have the voting power which "protects the sanctity" of the game, to perhaps --- though unlikely --- not give Shady a first year pass.

But you are definitely right about the height of the threshold.

Spygate is Belichick, not Brady. No shot Brady doesn't get in on first ballot. Haters gonna hate.
 
Lying Tom Brady proves that cheaters do win

By Steve Serby

September 3, 2015 | 6:47pm

tb.jpg

Tom Brady Photo: Getty Images

Teflon Tom Brady got himself a free pass when his four-game NFL suspension was overturned Thursday.

Just because Judge Richard M. Berman ruled in favor of your appeal does not mean that you are not guilty in the court of Roger Goodell and the NFL, or in the court of public opinion.

If you are not convinced this signals Vindigate for Teflon Tom — and you should not be — then you have no other conclusion to reach than:

Crime pays. In this case, the crime of cheating.

The truth is Teflon Tom lied about his balls, and virtually everyone outside New England knows it.

Teflon Tom had his cell phone destroyed, obstructed NFL justice by keeping electronic transmissions from the league during the Deflategate investigation. Judge Berman’s ruling hardly means he is innocent here. His balls were deflated in the AFC title game.

You can make the argument Teflon Tom did not deserve four games, but he deserved something other than exoneration.

Nowhere in his ruling did Judge Berman declare Teflon Tom innocent.

No, it was the NFL being guilty of not adequately finding Teflon Tom guilty.

Guilty, in Judge Berman’s courtroom, of giving Teflon Tom no specific notice he would be suspended, withholding evidence of its own, not making NFL general counsel Jeff Pash available to be questioned by Teflon Tom, among other procedural and strategic gaffes.

Guilty of abuse of power in disciplinary matters given him by the collectively bargained agreement with the players union.

Guilty of an investigation that was independent only in the eyes of Goodell’s NFL.

Balls well that ends well. But Deflategate doesn’t end well with Teflon Tom and Patriots Nation celebrating Elategate.

It ends with Teflon Tom playing quarterback for the Patriots, starting Thursday night against the Steelers when the 2015 NFL season kicks off.

rg.jpg

Roger GoodellPhoto: AP

It leaves us with the image of the commissioner of the NFL tripping during his backpedal trying to bat down another touchdown pass thrown by Teflon Tom, and called for pass interference by Judge Berman.

For Teflon Tom, this is a sudden death overtime victory that probably feels every bit as good as hoisting his fourth Lombardi Trophy.

But only because Goodell and the NFL fumbled during their maniacal obsession with their everlasting stated goals of upholding the integrity of the league and protecting the shield to the point where they made Teflon Tom a sympathetic figure and target of a witch hunt in some circles.

Goodell, with the backing of most of the golden-goose owners, is determined to follow Teflon Tom to the gates of hell and continue to try to sack him, saying, “We will appeal today’s ruling in order to uphold the collectively bargained responsibility to protect the integrity of the game.”

But enough time and money has been spent, starting with the Wells Report. Enough vitriol — between the NFL and the NFLPA, between the NFL and the Patriots, forever in the crosshairs because of Spygate — has been spewed on both sides.

Goodell should leave “Winning Isn’t Everything, But It’s The Only Thing” to Vince Lombardi.

He’d rather be right than commissioner, although with his earnings ($35 million in 2013), he might want to reconsider.

The adversarial relationship between Goodell and the union needs to end. It’s a better league when there is conciliation rather than confrontation. When the union and the Judge Bermans do not reach the verdict that Goodell’s heavy-handed brand of justice is arbitrary and unfair.

Patriots owner Bob Kraft decided to stand down and take his punishment — first- and fourth-round draft choices and a $1 million fine — for the good of the league (and the Patriots, of course), and Goodell should think twice about doing the same.

“Now we can return our focus to the game on the field,” Kraft said.

Where it belongs. With Teflon Tom throwing passes — with properly inflated balls — instead of receiving them.
 
The arrogance of Roger Goodell

By Dan Wetzel 16 hours ago Yahoo Sports


New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft conceded defeat, two draft picks, a million bucks and incalculable prestige – and the commissioner still couldn't resist pushing for more.

Tom Brady too, and, now, after getting slapped around Thursday by U.S. District Court Judge Richard M. Berman, it's Goodell who is the one walking out of here wounded and Brady gliding into the season as some kind of unsuspended martyr.


Oh, Roger had it all in his hands back in May. Kraft magnanimously/foolishly dropped the threat of litigation for the good of the NFL. He accepted the Wells report as fact, indefinitely suspended two locker room attendants and was just going to hope time heals all reputations. It was a terrible move; one Kraft himself has admitted was a mistake and even apologized for.

All Goodell had to do was the gentlemanly thing, the thing Kraft expected, and that was make a global settlement offer that included dropping Brady's conclusion of guilt and four-game suspension. It would have quickly and effectively ended the quarterback's appeal and further discovery into the NFL's conduct in the case.

The NFL machine had won, beaten even the mighty Patriots in a battle that was more about public relations than the actual facts around whether the footballs were tampered with during the AFC championship game. Public perception had been flooded by false, yet highly prejudicial stories that the NFL refused to correct, a narrative that made it almost impossible for the Patriots to fight back.

The Wells report was still believed to be "independent" because at that point no one knew that the NFL's general counsel had actually edited it, meaning it wasn't independent at all. Rival owners, fans and players were united.

Goodell was going down in history as the victor, refusing to play favorites even with his favorite owner. All those that were screaming about the flaws in the Wells report would have been dismissed with Pat the Patriot logoed tin foil hats.

Goodell's NFL, however, has the tact of a falling safe, a strange cowboy culture where it must push for every last drop of blood, no matter how imprudent it is to continue the battle.

This is how the whole thing started, after all.

____________________

Troy Vincent, the NFL's executive vice president of football operations, didn't know anything about Ideal Gas Law back on Jan. 19. As such, the investigation into how footballs became deflated during the AFC championship game in January between the Patriots and the Indianapolis Colts began with the belief that any football measured that night below 12.5 PSI was a sign of purposeful cheating, rather than natural deflation. And any number that was well below 12.5 – say in the 11s – must therefore be the result of a big, grand conspiracy.

That belief framed everything else. New England was running a scheme and the NFL gumshoes would prove it.

Only once they learned otherwise, once they found out that a ball can, quite naturally, be measured at 11.5, or that protocol after that game had two pumps with varying measurements that made the entire experiment worthless, or noted that no one ever cared about ball inflation levels before this and the rulebook was indifferent, or thought hard after none of the equipment guys cracked, or when no firm evidence was uncovered, or when there was nothing tying Brady to the possible deflations that night, they should've backed down.

A smart league office would have acted like a smart district attorney and expressed frustration at the lousy facts and poor police work and simply declined to prosecute because the case was weak. It happens.

There are plenty of suspicious things about the footballs that night, enough to look, enough to wonder, even still. There wasn't enough to prove guilt though.

And that's the big difference.

Instead the league tried to bulldoze along. It was enough to get Kraft to quit. It was time for Goodell to take a knee.

Instead he went after Brady, and forever and ever Roger Goodell is going to regret picking that fight.

____________________

Misread the tailored suits and furry Uggs and styled haircuts at your own peril. The guy is tough.

Tom Brady wouldn't quit, wouldn't rattle, wouldn't back down.

Tom Brady wouldn't concede an inch and thus, by bringing in the lawyers, by bringing in the brilliant Jeffrey Kessler, he was able to get the whole ball of nonsense into Richard M. Berman's court of law, a place that lives far from riotous cable television debate shows and Internet message boards.

Brady's appeal hearing with the NFL had been a complete farce, so outrageous that Goodell himself misrepresented Brady's own testimony in his decision, finding him guilty of something he never even said. Comparative punishments were invented, levels of guilt shifted, basic fairness was trampled upon.

For instance, there is no written notice, or precedent of any kind, that a player can be suspended for being "generally aware" of someone else's actions. And Goodell couldn't just arbitrarily make up the corollary that being generally aware of someone else's equipment violation was akin to getting busted for performance-enhancing drugs.

Per NFL rules, even if Brady was guilty he should have only faced a $5,512 fine, the judge said, not a quarter-season suspension.

It was further wrong of Goodell to prohibit Brady from asking questions of NFL counsel Jeff Pash simply because Goodell himself pre-determined Pash's testimony would be "cumulative." How would Goodell know what Pash was going to say? And how arrogant is the NFL that it thinks it can just suppress a witness?

"[Due to Pash's] designation as co-lead investigator with Ted Wells, it is logical that he could have valuable insight into the course and outcome of the Investigation …," Berman aptly noted.

How about that the NFL was obligated to share evidence, a concept so basic and intrinsic and obvious that it was an actual punch line in "My Cousin Vinny."

"It's called disclosure," Mona Lisa Vito, Bill Belichick's favorite character, says, mocking Vinny's legal education.

"Fundamentally unfair," is how Berman put it in his decision.

(Let's a take a second here to note that the NFL lost a case in which it was outraged over Brady's supposed lack of cooperation and unwillingness to hand over evidence, in part because it was uncooperative and unwilling to hand over evidence. Seriously.)

Berman decided that Goodell also couldn't, during an appeals hearing, re-rule on the league's own original decision and determine new levels of guilt for Brady just because he felt like it. Gee, you think?

There was so much here that showed how the NFL, because it went after a speeding ticket like a homicide case, kept acting progressively more desperate as everything crumbled around it.

Yet none of it reaches the cool, considered environs of a federal courtroom if Goodell had just let Brady walk.

And then, even when it does get to Judge Berman, and he is so confrontational with the league that he sounds like a co-defense counsel, the NFL still refused to make any meaningful movement on a deal with Brady. It was the league's final failure to comprehend the cliff it was driving off.

__________________

The league is living in a bubble in which it doesn't matter what's real, it's all about what it can get people to believe is real, including its owners.

Just this week a smart guy named Bob McNair, who happens to own the Houston Texans, sounded stupid when he publicly carried Goodell's water for him in a radio interview. How long do these billionaires want to keep doing that? That's the $44 million-per-year question.

What will it take for the league to revamp its disciplinary process into one that is more equitable and transparent and credible? When does it realize what even the NCAA has realized: Being the bully isn't good for business.

If you paid close enough attention, deflate-gate was a giant circle of nonsense. The NFL banked on almost no one paying close attention.

Yet Goodell, by taking on Brady, all but assured it would wind up on the desk of someone paying extremely close attention: a learned, intelligent, federal judge.

It was ignorance of Ideal Gas Law that got this started. It was arrogance about how a fair mind would rule that ended it.

So Tom Brady plays in Foxborough next Thursday. And a rattled and embattled Roger Goodell has to stay home and watch on TV.
 
Being a JETS fan I am certainly no fan of Tom Brady. However this has been a farce from day 1. The fine and loss of a draft choice were sufficient punishment. Brady should never have been suspended.

Tom K
 
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