Its the offensive line it's apparent I believe Eli would feel that way but what is that situation
No team that drafted a qb in last two seasons would want him for next season he can't go somewhere where the offense is changed or foreign to him
Giant fans......
- Thread starter Halldan1
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No team that drafted a qb in last two seasons would want him for next season he can't go somewhere where the offense is changed or foreign to him
I agree completely with you about Eli. I don't think he could be successful even if he had Denver's defense that his brother had in his last run.
On Shurmur I think he was sold a bill of goods with this team. He was spot on when he was saying to himself throw it to Odell and throw the ball downfield etc. The GM told the owner what he wanted to hear and they sold the coach a bill of goods. He is going to have to get better as an in game coach though.
If they draft a QB in the top 6 where they will probably pick, the organization is a hypocrisy. Herbert is a franchise QB but none this year were. Yeah right. If they draft a QB around where Rosen was drafted this year after filing a need and getting more draft stock for needs. I would have no problem with that move.
Would Coughlin take him in Jacksonville if they dump Bortles and draft a QB who could learn under Eli for a year?
I don't know about the coach yet. I like some of the things he does and how he handles himself, but can the guy lead a team? Jury's out.
I would also like to know why the team took Barkely #2 overall but they never commit to trying to run the ball. The goal should be 20 carries per game. He's averaging just over 12 and only been above 15 in 3 games, never hitting 20. Ridiculous.
Shurmur's career record is abysmal, yes. He's 11-30 (.268) as a HC in the NFL. The only caveat is it comes from coaching the Browns for two seasons and now this dumpster fire with the Giants.
Yes, I think he would. Jacksonville also needs a change. Jaguars have fallen off a cliff; they are now 3-5 and have lost 4-straight. It's a team coming off the rails with internal strife between the offense and defense. Coincidentally, they are also entering their bye week, so timing is perfect from that sense.
Eli would re-energize things down there. He's better than Bortles. Plus Leonard Fournette is returning after the bye.
But the financials make it difficult, even if Eli waived his no-trade.
Eli has repeatedly said he will not waive his no trade clause and wants to remain in NY. Whether that’s a bargaining chip , who knows. Either way Eli can’t be on the Giants roster next year he’s too much of a distraction and he’s just not a good QB any more. I could envision the Giants cutting him and then he signs elsewhere as a free agent .
Jax O line is not good either and is all banged up. I mean they just took a flier on Flowers. So yea it all sounds good because Eli and Coughlin have a great relationship and the press likes to write about it, but will Eli fare any better down there and get the "max" protection he needs to be effective? And do you think Coughlin is really that stupid to take a PTSD QB at this point who can't move his feet in today's NFL?
It’s so hard to judge a new coach on a team like the Giants whose offense is a mess and they were coming off a three win season . As to Barkley’s carries I believe the Giants are limiting his carries because they’re concerned that with an atrocious line he’ll get hurt. While they are limiting his carries they give him extra touches with the passing games which he excels at. Yesterday he had 13 carries , 9 receptions and I think there was two additional passes where he was the target but the pass wasn’t completed.Adding them all up that’s 22 times he had the ball in his hands and two times where he was the target. I personally think he is more dangerous as a pass catcher coming out of the backfield because he excels in making people miss in open space then trying to run the ball with a line that doesn’t open holes.
You make points that are difficult to argue with but I would just leave you with one thought on TC taking Eli, you and I have seen crazy personnel moves by GM’s that defy logic but teams will take crazy risks to try to improve their team.
One of the elements I liked about Shurmur was his commitment to running and using that to compliment varying formations, play-action passing, and so forth. This was in stark contrast to his predecessor.
Maybe that's the reason for it, idk. There is a fundamental difference between a running play and using a RB as a receiver. Running the ball balances the offense, allows you those varying looks, and gets the offensive line into a rhythm; it builds cohesion.
Every time they have the ball inside the 5 it should be Barkley, Barkley, Barkley. Its the only real chance a success. Instead it's a run, incomplete pass, and usually a 3rd incomplete pass that's not even thrown in the end zone.
Giants have allowed 30 sacks in 8 games, already more than last season. The most Eli has been sacked in one season is 39.
There are 8 games to play. Wow.
Ironically Eli has one of the best QB Ratings of his career (90.9), lol.
There are 8 games to play. Wow.
Ironically Eli has one of the best QB Ratings of his career (90.9), lol.
Sometimes a quarterback needs to avoid a sack... very, very hard to win with a statue in the pocket outside of Tom Brady.
If Eli plays one more game this season, you have to wonder what this organization is doing. Put Lauletta in, give him the 2 weeks of first team reps and see what he can do after the bye. If he stinks, he stinks, at least you have 8 games of evaluation.
Wonder if he’ll break David Carr’s record of 76 sacks in a season in 2002 with Houston .
Agreed to some extent, but 30 sacks? It's extreme. Eli is being called out relentlessly for this as he now embodies all the fury. I get it. There's no denying it. He has missed plays at an unacceptable rate and there's nothing to pick him up. The team does not play complimentary football. The running game is non-existent, the special teams are terrible (worst field position in the league), the defense is average at best.
My point is the team plays harder than the rollovers they did under McAdoo, but the fundamental issues are still there and worse than just QB. QB is probably #3 on the list, IMO, behind the two lines. It's going to be tough for Lauletta, but he definitely needs to play.
With the trade deadline coming up tomorrow rumors are swirling around the Giants and apart from Jenkins the hot name is Collins with a number of teams contacting the Giants about him. With no serious discussions on a contract extension an issue , the consensus is that he would bring a high second day pick, a two or three . As to OBJ , a number of teams have contacted the Giants but finances are a big issue in trading him and it looks like he’ll not be traded .
With injuries occurring at a high rate playoff contenders are looking to replace those players and predictions are that this will be a very active trade market with teams like the Raiders, Browns, Bills , 49ers and Giants looking to sell.
With injuries occurring at a high rate playoff contenders are looking to replace those players and predictions are that this will be a very active trade market with teams like the Raiders, Browns, Bills , 49ers and Giants looking to sell.
The point you understand I am sure but missing from your commentary is that an immobile QB who cannot make quick decisions is doomed in this league and that is what we are seeing. QB rating does not measure wins - who cares in the end if you have a QB that is rated lower that wins games. In the last 3-4 years Eli's play has been declining at a rapid rate. Part of it is definitely the poor O line. But Eli lacks the skill set to help himself and the O line in today's NFL - that is know when to move around in the pocket, buy a little time and to make quick decisions. I watch other QBs and the ball comes out quickly, they usually have a read to counteract a blitz and you never see that with the Giants offense. Almost ever team the Giants have played has had a QB that can run or buy time. A big part of an offense's success is the guy with the ball in his hands. Defenses have to account for a QB that can move in the pocket or that can run. They don't have to worry about any of that with Eli - it's always 11 defenders against 10 offensive players which makes their game plan so much easier. Just does not work anymore for 100% of the plays in the NFL. Eli has been a true professional for many years and the best QB the Giants have ever had but his last few years have been subpar at best and he doesn't fit anymore in the long term plans for any team - not just the Giants. The league is different and statues don't work with the speed of the defense.
The only thing Eli brings to the table anymore is that it gives the Giants a better chance to go into the tank and get a top pick in next year’s draft.
People have mentioned Herbert going back to college for his senior year, but that could potentially put him as the fourth best qb behind Tua, Fromm, and Haskins (if he returns).
I agree about Eli's skills. The combination of a QB in his late-30's combined with a shot line is toxic.
How do you beat the Patriots? Hit Brady, right?
It's a fine line. The best offenses in football right now have the best lines, that's still true. Ideally I'd like a QB with a big arm who can maneuver, keep a play alive. Like Roethlisberger does, like Goff goes, even Stafford, or how Keenum played for Shurmur in Minnesota last year. Guys who try to do too much of it usually get hurt because it's too many hits. I think of Wentz, Watson, Rodgers, Romo, etc.
I don't even think the lack of mobility in Eli is the big problem. It's his internal clock. It's totally off. He looks so disjointed and jittery. It's over.
Yea...in addition to his lack of mobility, he's lost all strength in the pocket. The Eli Manning of today would've never made the Tyree throw cause he would've gone down on the initial rush.
As Bill Cower commented yesterday Eli is taking “ Ghost Sacks “ going down too quickly and not staying up and looking to make a play .
Precisely what occurs in these situations when QB's have bad protection for a long time. It happens to every QB who goes through it. No exceptions.
This is why defenses are constantly trying to hit the QB.
People speak of the fear the Giants will waste the prime years of Odell Beckham and Saquon Barkley. That's true. Well, they just wasted the back half of Eli Manning's.
True which continues to boggle my mind and wonder what were Reese and crew thinking with their draft picks.
Eli's two biggest mistakes:
He should demanded a trade several years when the O line deteriorated to dog shit but he's too classy for that.
He also should have bailed when Coughlin was strong armed into hiring McAdoo. Eli's a drop back QB with great long distance accuracy. He's not a sprint out, scrambling, dink & dunk QB.
I still think he can be an above average QB but he needs the right offense & personnel. That's certainly not the Giants.
He should demanded a trade several years when the O line deteriorated to dog shit but he's too classy for that.
He also should have bailed when Coughlin was strong armed into hiring McAdoo. Eli's a drop back QB with great long distance accuracy. He's not a sprint out, scrambling, dink & dunk QB.
I still think he can be an above average QB but he needs the right offense & personnel. That's certainly not the Giants.
Eli is too classy to demand a trade?
do you remember what the first thing eli did when he was drafted?
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Of the 9 o-lineman under contract only 1 was a draft choice of the Giants and that was Hernandez who was a Gettlemen pick this year. You look at the Giants roster and how few draft choices are on it and then you look at a team that consistently drafts well like the Steelers who have 17 draft choices out of their 22 starters.
Yup! Which tells you the Maras were not paying attention to Reese and crew because their track record got worse every year. The Maras and former GM created this problem. Eli has gotten knocked around and is a shell of what he used to be. But the NFL has passed them all by at this point. Different league now and they are playing catch up and are behind by about 3 years at least.
The question is whether Gettlemen and his staff are the right people to turn the Giants around especially in the area of talent evaluation both in the draft and in free agency . While Gettlemen had a solid first draft his free agent signings of Solder and Omameh were huge mistakes both from the perspective of their play on the field and the financial hit the cap space took with their signings.
I don’t want Gettleman leading a rebuild. He wasn’t brought here to do that. Giants would be better off letting him go at the end of the season but they look even more foolish if they pull the plug after one year. Organization is just a complete mess. I really don’t know how or who is going to turn this whole thing around. I don’t trust Mara at this point to do anything right. Sad.
Of all people, I saw Marc Ross on the NFL Network this morning. When asked, he specifically pointed to the Giants moving on and having to bench Manning, not worrying about making people happy or protecting reputations. He was critical they are relying on a 4th Round QB now.
O'Hara was on the panel and went after him. Said he disagreed on Eli and Giants did a terrible job building the lines. Ross continued to blame Eli, said nobody has a good line, and the game has changed. Huh? Amazing to me the mindset Reese/Ross/McAdoo had to believe another QB would be better behind this mess. It's denial.
O'Hara was on the panel and went after him. Said he disagreed on Eli and Giants did a terrible job building the lines. Ross continued to blame Eli, said nobody has a good line, and the game has changed. Huh? Amazing to me the mindset Reese/Ross/McAdoo had to believe another QB would be better behind this mess. It's denial.
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The jury's out on the Gettleman/Shurmur combo to me. But to be fair, Gettleman did rebuild the Panthers, all the way to the Super Bowl. That team is still his guy.
I am done with Shurmur. His play calling is horrible,his in game decisions are just as bad and he has no clue on how to make any kind of adjustments.
In the NFL you can rebuild quickly, but it's damn near impossible when you don't have a QB, OL, or pass rush. The Giants are weakest at all of the premium positions. You typically can't fill the holes the Giants have in one or two draft classes and free agency periods.
Because of that, I'd trade anyone and everyone on the roster that teams inquire about outside of Barkley, but you could probably sell me on that if the haul was huge because I don't see the Giants being competitive any time soon.
This is what happens when you kick the can down the road for years and badly evaluate your own talent time and time again.
Because of that, I'd trade anyone and everyone on the roster that teams inquire about outside of Barkley, but you could probably sell me on that if the haul was huge because I don't see the Giants being competitive any time soon.
This is what happens when you kick the can down the road for years and badly evaluate your own talent time and time again.
I would trade Barkley if it brought back a nice package (very unlikely to get such an offer). He's awesome, no one would deny his ability but he makes no sense on this team at this time. Didn't make sense in April and he still makes no sense. The RB position is simply not valuable. The Steelers plugged in a mid-round draft pick for Leveon Bell and offensively, have not missed a beat, actually their YPC went up. When you have an offensive line you can put a mid-round RB or even an undrafted guy back there and be just fine. Try to do it the other way around and you can make an elite talent like Barkley look average.
Well I think Gettleman and Shurmur have their work cut out for them. Today will tell you a lot with the trade deadline. They can't just dump talent for low picks and settle either unless they are clearing cap space. Should be interesting.
Clearly time to thank Eli and work in Lauletta in the next few games. And focus more on the run game in the process to help either QB and hope the O line improves.
Clearly time to thank Eli and work in Lauletta in the next few games. And focus more on the run game in the process to help either QB and hope the O line improves.
