Giant fans......

[NYC Pirate]

Mixed review from me on both the coach and GM.

I’d say the GM did well in the draft. Time will tell. No experiments and guys with football skills. So off to a good start. He also shed some bad apples right after he took the jjob. His free agent signings have been poor. An old running back in Stuart to mento Barkley was a waste. The OL guys added have not fixed the problem. Solder can still be valuable if he’s playing injured unless they cut him, probably not realistic from a money standpoint. Now he’s getting rid of guys that can’t help in the long run while giving a chance for some other guys to gain valuable experience.

I still feel comfortable with the GM. The coach walks the part and looks the part, but
Is he an NFL coach? Not sure and more data is needed. He hasn’t done a great job in his pro coaching career to date. In fairness they know way more than all of us and still can’t figure a way to get the ball down field with this pathetic line. I’m not sold on him to date.

What’s clear is they seemed to have gone through that door to the rebuilding mode.i hope they sell off a few pieces before the trade deadline and accumulate some more picks. Then the Eli decisions will be on the docket. When do they sit him? Does he get released in the off season if he doesn’t accept a trade now?

The last point is the OBJ issue. This guy can’t be further away from our perception of what NY Football Giant Culture should be. On the other hand it’s 2018 and maybe our perception Is outdated, not what modern society views as important. Sad , but probably true. It’s not early 1960’s Yankee Stadium or 1980’s Giant’s Stadium culture anymore. So how do we deal with this kid? Are we making him out to be worse than he really is? What he calls self motivation and what appears to be a whack job on the sidelines is a tough gig moving forward. Would we care if we were 5-2 instead of 6-1? Is he a huge distraction or do the Giants stink so much that he becomes the easy target?

 

[jim34238]

Start Lauletta NOW! Let's see what he's got.

 

[Potbelly407]

The biggest question is what happens if the Giants don't finish high enough in the draft , a very real possibility, in order to get Herbert assuming of course that he's in the draft. If he's not in the draft and they don't see a QB worth what their draft position is , especially in a draft that's weak at that position, I could see them trading down, getting extra picks especially in the 2020 draft and hope they get a shot that year at the " Throwing Hawaian " at Ole Miss.

I like this idea. I wanted them to trade down this past draft, but oh well. Btw, Tua is the QB at Bama, not Ole Miss

 

[hallgrad80]

I like this idea. I wanted them to trade down this past draft, but oh well. Btw, Tua is the QB at Bama, not Ole Miss

You're right it is Bama , but I still like him as a QB despite that. As to trading down this is a draft deep in O-Linemen , with some mock drafts showing as many as 7 going in the first round .

 

[Potbelly407]

You're right it is Bama , but I still like him as a QB despite that. As to trading down this is a draft deep in O-Linemen , with some mock drafts showing as many as 7 going in the first round .

It’s sad, but the next draft in April is all Giants’ fans have to look forward to at this point in the season. This is what Jets’ fans usually go through I guess, lol

 

[hallgrad80]

It’s sad, but the next draft in April is all Giants’ fans have to look forward to at this point in the season. This is what Jets’ fans usually go through I guess, lol

You know what’s really sad is that there are potentially six other teams just as bad , if a couple are not worse then the Giants in the Raiders, Bills, Cardinals, 49ers, Colts and Browns and the Giants might not get the first , second or even third pick in the first round . If the Raiders get a higher pick then the Giants and Herbert is there I think Gruden wants to dump Carr and draft his own QB .

 

[flconticello]

People on here keep harping on the decision to skip over the qbs, but this team now wouldn’t be any better and obviously the Giants front office didn’t believe enough in the future of the qbs. Just because you draft a qb #2 overall doesn’t guarantee success

If you drafted a QB last season it could very likely have been a wasted pick with this line. You don't have to go back very far to see an example of a "franchise" QB ruined by getting beaten to a pulp because of a terrible line. See exhibit A. David Carr.

 

[Piratz]

You know what’s really sad is that there are potentially six other teams just as bad , if a couple are not worse then the Giants in the Raiders, Bills, Cardinals, 49ers, Colts and Browns and the Giants might not get the first , second or even third pick in the first round . If the Raiders get a higher pick then the Giants and Herbert is there I think Gruden wants to dump Carr and draft his own QB .

This is what’s interesting to me. The Giants had a brutal schedule to start the year. They have lots of winnable games.

Redskins x 2
@ 49ers
Bucs
Titans
Colts
Cowboys
Bears

 

[hallgrad80]

This is what’s interesting to me. The Giants had a brutal schedule to start the year. They have lots of winnable games.

Redskins x 2
@ 49ers
Bucs
Titans
Colts
Cowboys
Bears

And who is going to block Khalil Mack when the Giants play the Bears . Also watch JPP when they play Tampa Bay try to prove the Giants were wrong on him.

 

[hbkmyr]

If the Giants won 2 of those games I’d be surprised

 

[Potbelly407]

You know what’s really sad is that there are potentially six other teams just as bad , if a couple are not worse then the Giants in the Raiders, Bills, Cardinals, 49ers, Colts and Browns and the Giants might not get the first , second or even third pick in the first round . If the Raiders get a higher pick then the Giants and Herbert is there I think Gruden wants to dump Carr and draft his own QB .

If the Giants won 2 of those games I’d be surprised

Somehow they always manage to heat the Redskins at least once, but at this point, I wouldn’t care if they lose the rest of their games. I’d rather go 1-15 than 3-13 and get that number one pick

 

[HALL28]

I'm hoping we see Kyle Lauletta soon. The most egregious part of last season was not getting Davis Webb even a few games just to see a glimpse of what he could do. I would also scale back Saquon's touches a bit and get Gallman more involved. This is a lost season, treat it as such.

 

[hbkmyr]

I'm hoping we see Kyle Lauletta soon. The most egregious part of last season was not getting Davis Webb even a few games just to see a glimpse of what he could do. I would also scale back Saquon's touches a bit and get Gallman more involved. This is a lost season, treat it as such.

This is a main reason why I don't see them winning many games the rest of season. Who knows what this team will look like week 10. The defense could be totally gutted and there may be multiple guys getting snaps offense to see what they have.

 

[dcPirate]

It's been a complete disaster. 50-50? You are a very generous guy, 112.

A blind man could have seen Saquon Barkley was awesome, including every scout, GM and astute NFL observer. But to take him #2 when you have no offensive line and a 37-year-old QB on the downside was the height of ineptitude and has now become the joke of the NFL as every April critic's warning has played out exactly. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I can't say I have much faith in him based on what he's done so far.

Without Barkley there might be no reason to even watch the NYG...

 

[PosterFormallyKnownAsShuathelete]

just tank for a QB. odds are you get a QB as good or better than darnold AND have generational talent in saquon.

 

[hallgrad80]

If you want to get a perspective on how bad the draft under the Reese/Ross era was and why the Giants are in the state they are today consider this.
1.There are 53 players on the active roster, 10 on the practice squad , 7 on injured reserve and 2 on non football related injured reserve which adds up to 72 players.
2.There are only 14 players the Giants drafted on the active roster.
3.There are 2 drafted players on non football related injured reserve.
4. There is 1 drafted player on the practice squad.
5. There is 1 drafted player on injured reserve.
To sum up of the 72 players under contract to the Giants only 18 were drafted by the Giants and 7 of those were drafted by Gettlemen this past year which is why the next couple of drafts are so important to the Giants rebuild and why adding extra picks in the draft can only help.

 

[Piratz]

Incredible numbers, hallgrad.

The question to me is what happens before Tuesday with these 3 players as these are the only impactul options on the roster:

1). Landon Collins is part of the rebuild. Teams have called the Giants on him and he's probably the only player that would get a premium pick in return, but I would not trade him. Ditto for Sterling Shepard and Evan Engram.

2). Janoris Jenkins is a mercurial player. He's really good when motivated, really bad when not. He's the 89th-ranked CB in the NFL this year and has a HUGE contract. I'd trade him if I could. You will not get a premium return, but it will open savings and roster flex, similar to Damian Harrison.

3). Odell Beckham is a wild card. Do Gettleman/Shurmur believe he'll be a good citizen and a true leader or a continued self-promoter? They see him every day. If he's too much of a distraction, he has to go. Cannot have those types around, talent be damned. Barkley is a better front man anyway. Need a culture here where sum > parts. They needed to sign him to take a swing at begin competitive, but what now?

Olivier Vernon's contract is too crazy to move, plus you need a premier pass rusher on the roster. I don't think they are trading Eli Manning. He's going to play and then that's it in the offseason. Hopefully they handle December well. He has earned a day.

Rest of the guys are part of the rebuild and evaluation.

 

[hallgrad80]

Incredible numbers, hallgrad.

The question to me is what happens before Tuesday with these 3 players as these are the only impactul options on the roster:

1). Landon Collins is part of the rebuild. Teams have called the Giants on him and he's probably the only player that would get a premium pick in return, but I would not trade him. Ditto for Sterling Shepard and Evan Engram.

2). Janoris Jenkins is a mercurial player. He's really good when motivated, really bad when not. He's the 89th-ranked CB in the NFL this year and has a HUGE contract. I'd trade him if I could. You will not get a premium return, but it will open savings and roster flex, similar to Damian Harrison.

3). Odell Beckham is a wild card. Do Gettleman/Shurmur believe he'll be a good citizen and a true leader or a continued self-promoter? They see him every day. If he's too much of a distraction, he has to go. Cannot have those types around, talent be damned. Barkley is a better front man anyway. Need a culture here where sum > parts. They needed to sign him to take a swing at begin competitive, but what now?

Olivier Vernon's contract is too crazy to move, plus you need a premier pass rusher on the roster. I don't think they are trading Eli Manning. He's going to play and then that's it in the offseason. Hopefully they handle December well. He has earned a day.

Rest of the guys are part of the rebuild and evaluation.

Excellent questions here’s my take on the three .
OBJ , despite all his antics , is not traded.
Jenkins is put on the block but the Giants will want a good return for him and not give him away on the cheap.
Collins is due for a big payday with an expiring contract and how what he will cost fits into their cap space will be a factor in what they do with him .
I agree that keeping Shepard and Engram make sense.
As to Eli I think he’s untradeable and he’s released after the season. My hope is that he retires and leaves with his head high and not try to play another year.

 

[its haLL baLL]

Incredible numbers, hallgrad.

The question to me is what happens before Tuesday with these 3 players as these are the only impactul options on the roster:

1). Landon Collins is part of the rebuild. Teams have called the Giants on him and he's probably the only player that would get a premium pick in return, but I would not trade him. Ditto for Sterling Shepard and Evan Engram.

2). Janoris Jenkins is a mercurial player. He's really good when motivated, really bad when not. He's the 89th-ranked CB in the NFL this year and has a HUGE contract. I'd trade him if I could. You will not get a premium return, but it will open savings and roster flex, similar to Damian Harrison.

3). Odell Beckham is a wild card. Do Gettleman/Shurmur believe he'll be a good citizen and a true leader or a continued self-promoter? They see him every day. If he's too much of a distraction, he has to go. Cannot have those types around, talent be damned. Barkley is a better front man anyway. Need a culture here where sum > parts. They needed to sign him to take a swing at begin competitive, but what now?

Olivier Vernon's contract is too crazy to move, plus you need a premier pass rusher on the roster. I don't think they are trading Eli Manning. He's going to play and then that's it in the offseason. Hopefully they handle December well. He has earned a day.

Rest of the guys are part of the rebuild and evaluation.

I’d trade Beckham tomorrow but I think we are stuck with him for at least 3 seasons. I’m not a cap expert, but I think we have to absorb a bunch of dead money if they move him prior to that. I hope I’m wrong though.

 

[flconticello]

They will have more than $50M available in cap space by the time the next year league calendar begins. They have $33M now, plus Eli’s $17M upcoming alone, barring any more trades. Thanks to the woeful drafting of Reese, they only have one upcoming player to work out a contract for, Landon Collins.

They will then have 9 draft picks, although only 2 of them are Rounds 1-3. They could earn a 10th (extra 4thRounder) if they cut Latimer (IR) by Week 10. Plus recovering CB Sam Beal (3rd) from this year’s haul who did not play in 2018.

They will likely have a top-10 pick, but will have to trade up for a QB they like. The only viable FA option would be Teddy Bridgewater. Unless, of course, they like Lauletta?

You say top 10. By the looks of this team top 3 offs more likely and would not have to trade up.

 

[NYC Pirate]

First, Landon Collins: Id keep him. In fairness we just don’t get to see the guy in important or meaningful games. He may be able to elevate if given that chance. He is not up to par with his play from a couple of years ago, a difference maker and one of the best defensive players in the league. Still young and has leadership skills.

Jenkins: I think we’ve seen his best of him. At the top of his game he’s a really good defender. Comes with some baggage, but a playoff team could inspire him. I say trade him for a 3 or 4 if possible.

Engram: 50/50 on this guy. He may be injury prone. If the QB has time he is a matchup problem. Can he block? They say he’s getting better. If you trade him then you have to find another TE probably in the draft. Does that make sense at this point? Doesn’t seem to be a headache to the coaching staff.

OBJ: Impossible Situation. The guy will probably be a Hall of Famer. Will he ever play in another playoff game, probably,but it could be 2 or 3 years at least. I just feel if you trade him you can get some nice draft picks at minimum and get him out of the locker room. He is an exceptional talent, but history shows they can win without this level of talent at the wideout spot. I’ll take Cruz and Nicks over him any day. As stated the contract makes it almost impossible to move him. Perhaps they can send him on a camping or fishing retreat with Carson, Banks, Bavaro and Martin to mentor him.

 

[The Crows Nest]

If you drafted a QB last season it could very likely have been a wasted pick with this line. You don't have to go back very far to see an example of a "franchise" QB ruined by getting beaten to a pulp because of a terrible line. See exhibit A. David Carr.

Well I’m watching Oregon and first time I’m seeing them but if this is your savior, good luck

 

[TomD82]

Well I’m watching Oregon and first time I’m seeing them but if this is your savior, good luck

That is not at all inaccurate. As one NFL scout has posted he would hate to have to take a QB in this upcoming draft. But, like the link below says the Giants will because they have to. The same way they got stuck and had to take Flowers, Pugh and Richburg. BTW, how does Pugh look with Arizona?

https://247sports.com/nfl/new-york-...nts-scouts-say-how-to-fix-the-team-123704264/

 

[Potbelly407]

That is not at all inaccurate. As one NFL scout has posted he would hate to have to take a QB in this upcoming draft. But, like the link below says the Giants will because they have to. The same way they got stuck and had to take Flowers, Pugh and Richburg. BTW, how does Pugh look with Arizona?

https://247sports.com/nfl/new-york-...nts-scouts-say-how-to-fix-the-team-123704264/

It would be incredibly foolish to take a qb because you “feel you have to”. Keep your options open. Rebuilding the o-line should be priority #1 if you feel there’s not a franchise qb. More than likely, they’re going to have two picks in the top 40. This is supposed to be a strong draft for olinemen. I would consider spending both on o line. With the skill position players they have, a revamped oline can help a new qb, whether it’s Lauletta, a FA, or a traded guy

 

[hallgrad80]

The frustrating issue for me about the Giants finding their next QB is that most NFL talent evaluators were predicting that the 2019 class was going to be weak on QB’s but strong on the O-Line , edge rushers and defensive players and that if you needed a QB the 2018 class was a place to look for one. Yet despite that they convinced themselves that Eli was still a playoff QB and passed on drafting one and no QB looks special in the upcoming draft putting them in a real bind and hopefully they won’t waste a pick on drafting a QB that is a risk.

 

[its haLL baLL]

This team stinks.

 

[Section112]

This team stinks.

Ya think?

Offense is just painful. No protection but Eli is also glued to the pocket. Teams know he can’t move and he becomes easy to rush. No worries about him running or even moving in the pocket. Makes it even harder for an O line to protect him. Most of his passes continue to be at the line of scrimmage. Little or no downfield passing. And of course somehow the offense comes alive late in the 4th quarter. Where is the sense of urgency early?

Defense played good enough to win again.

 

[TomD82]

Eli cannot come back next year. This is just too pitiful watching this. Even if he is easy to rush the OL is overwhelmed at the point of attack on every play. Even Charles Davis commented on how fast the pass rushers are on Eli.

The owner declared the offense was broken 4 years ago. Are you kidding me? Ernie Accorsi was being kind when after the super bowls he did not want to take credit and said this is Reese's team. No, this is Reese and Gettlemen's teams for the last 6-7 years.

BTW, the Giants defense can make a 33 yr old Peterson look like a 22 yr old Barkley.

 

[NYC Pirate]

I didn’t feel Eli was the problem today aside from that crucial pass in the red zone.

Wideouts with dropped passes and of course the line was pathetic again.

Odell played very well and the defense more or less did what t they had to.

Brutal brutal season and only half finished.

 

[hallgrad80]

Add Engram to the list of players the Giants should trade, he is not a clutch receiver, too many balls go thru his hands and he seems to lose focus and doesn’t seem to make the big catch when the Giants need one. The Giants o- line may actually be worse then last year and Solder is a huge disappointment and is not getting the job done. Jenkins is not the player he was last year and the best way to describe this team is that they will find a way to lose which is the mantra of a bad team..

I watched part of the pregame show and Bill Cowher was talking about Eli and his comment was right on the money and one I had never heard before. He said that Eli is taking too many “ Ghost Sacks “ in that he goes to the ground too often when he feels pressure and he’s missing opportunities to do something with the ball.

 

[TomD82]

I didn’t feel Eli was the problem today aside from that crucial pass in the red zone.

Wideouts with dropped passes and of course the line was pathetic again.

Odell played very well and the defense more or less did what t they had to.

Brutal brutal season and only half finished.

Regardless, Eli cannot come back next season. And this defense cannot even get a QB to the ground for a sack when they get to the QB. How many times did Smith get the pass off or get away?

And how about that missed tackle by the LB on Peterson's TD pass. The Giants LB has a name like stupid. And how about the roughing the punter penalty by the guy wearing Carl Bank's old number? Please.

Gettlemen has a lot of work to do and he so far has done a lot of the same crap as Reese. Solder looks worse than Schwartz and Flowers. Solder has been playing hurt? He has been playing like this since preseason.

 

[NYShoreGuy]

Regardless, Eli cannot come back next season. And this defense cannot even get a QB to the ground for a sack when they get to the QB. How many times did Smith get the pass off or get away?

And how about that missed tackle by the LB on Peterson's TD pass. The Giants LB has a name like stupid. And how about the roughing the punter penalty by the guy wearing Carl Bank's old number? Please.

Gettlemen has a lot of work to do and he so far has done a lot of the same crap as Reese. Solder looks worse than Schwartz and Flowers. Solder has been playing hurt? He has been playing like this since preseason.

Eli is a gentleman I think he would pass the chance to play elsewhere and just retire or if he wants to play he will be released and sign elsewhere

 

[Piratz]

Forget Eli, he’ll be gone. What is Shurmur doing?!? 14 rush attempts?

 

[hallgrad80]

Eli is a gentleman I think he would pass the chance to play elsewhere and just retire or if he wants to play he will be released and sign elsewhere

I think Eli thinks that on a team with good receivers , a running game and a solid o-line he could take a team to the playoffs like Peyton did and he wants to go out on a high note not a low note.

 

[NYC Pirate]

Looking at the rest of the schedule the Giants should pick between 4th and 7th. That’s with Eli starting, probably winning 3 or 4 more games. For sure they could do worse than that especially if they trade off more players this week. Should they start Lauletta and do a quasi Tank Job then it could be top 1-3 pick in the draft.

Assuming there is only one marquee QB in the draft it should be interesting.

The Giants are competing with Oakland, SF, Arizona, Cleveland, Buffalo and Indy at this point.

 

[TomD82]

Looking at the rest of the schedule the Giants should pick between 4th and 7th. That’s with Eli starting, probably winning 3 or 4 more games. For sure they could do worse than that especially if they trade off more players this week. Should they start Lauletta and do a quasi Tank Job then it could be top 1-3 pick in the draft.

Assuming there is only one marquee QB in the draft it should be interesting.

The Giants are competing with Oakland, SF, Arizona, Cleveland, Buffalo and Indy at this point.

5 of those 6 teams are not drafting QBs after taking one last year and having Jimmy G and Luck.

Gettlemen needs to come out of the draft with 2 OL who could start, a pass rusher and a LB that can cover and makes plays. And he better have all the draft capital he needs to do it. I don't care if Shurmur called 140 run plays they could not gain anything. Anybody see the play where Hernandez pulled and the defender was already in the hole and on the RB? Anybody see how there is no separation from defenders by any of the receivers on almost every pass play? Negative yards on pass plays that did not start behind the LOS?

This team is devoid of talent compared to almost every team in the league. No sacks today and 7 turnovers in 8 games. The Giants give up those numbers every week

 

[TomD82]

FWIW, I loved Charles Davis doing the game on Fox. Anybody hear his basketball analogies during the game? And the Giants drafting and FA signingss to me are a parallel to SHU prior recruiting and the turn around with the Whitehead recruiting class.

 

[NYC Pirate]

How would this Eli do on this Patriot team with that coach?

Playoffs?
Conference Championship?
Super bowl Game?

I’d say playoffs.

 

[Section112]

The offense is killing this team. Eli doesn’t make anyone better around him and can rarely bye time to find an open receiver like 90% of the other NFL QBs do. Shurmurs coaching has been bad. I mean Barkley should have had more touches today. Receivers with talent are dropping passes. No sense of urgency. And I’ve been harping in this all year, why don’t they go uptempo during the game when it’s not the two minute drill? No adjustments that seem to work and players aren’t stepping up to make plays. Not good football to watch either. Painful.

 

[Section112]

How would this Eli do on this Patriot team with that coach?

Playoffs?
Conference Championship?
Super bowl Game?

I’d say playoffs.

Disagree. Eli is punch drunk at this point. I feel bad for him but he’s done and the league is not one where Eli can be successful anymore at his current skill level.