This is incredible to me. Of their past 8 1st Round picks, only 2 are still on the team. Good Lord.
Giant fans......
- Thread starter Halldan1
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This is incredible to me. Of their past 8 1st Round picks, only 2 are still on the team. Good Lord.
This.
Whether it was a consensus, an influence, or an outright directive from ownership, the Giants organization took a swing at competing in 2018. I don't really fault them for it. It's the NFL. Heck, the play a little cleaner and they're still in contention right now; the difference is that tight in this league.
It didn't work. The OL revamp wasn't good enough. That's the reason they are 1-6. You put an average OL in there and the team is 4-3 or better right now.
I feel like we haven’t gotten decent value in either of these trades.
Giants moving defensive pieces for minimal future draft considerations now this is because mara wanted to hear a narrative the team can win and make playoffs now and new gm and hc believed it could happen but now with what you have would have been better to try to reset before draft. Not saying you don't take barkley or sign odell longterm
The Giants screwed this entire situation up so badly it is almost comical. First, they hired an older GM who followed ownership's belief that this was a win-now team. Then, they based all of their decision this past offseason on that premise.
Now, they're realizing that they were terribly wrong and are getting ready to tear the entire thing down, but they've already drafted a RB at #2 overall, signed Beckham to a massive contract, signed Solder to a massive contract, hired an older GM who may not be the best fit for a full rebuild, and wasted another season when the rebuild should have begun a year ago.
They really have become one of the poorest run franchises in football.
Now, they're realizing that they were terribly wrong and are getting ready to tear the entire thing down, but they've already drafted a RB at #2 overall, signed Beckham to a massive contract, signed Solder to a massive contract, hired an older GM who may not be the best fit for a full rebuild, and wasted another season when the rebuild should have begun a year ago.
They really have become one of the poorest run franchises in football.
Absolutely. You can't get a 2nd round pick for an all pro in Snacks where there is also an out on his contract?
Are extra 4th, 5th & 7th round picks really going to make this team better. Gettlemen has a lot of moving up in the draft to do.
This is one of those good news , bad news stories . The good news is that the Giants are finally facing reality and recognizing that a total rebuild is necessary. The bad news is that missed out on getting their next franchise QB; they are getting little in return for the trades they’ve made; they have a 67 year old GM who may be the wrong person to oversee a total rebuild relying primarily on the draft; and as they trade off some key assets like Harrison and I hear Jenkins could be next, they create more holes to fill. Plus , they still face the dilemma of what to do with Eli and their QB position.
Giants’ fire sale takes twist with ‘Snacks’ Harrison trade
By Paul Schwartz
Damon HarrisonAnthony J. Causi
MORE ON:
NEW YORK GIANTS
Giants coach: Field commentary isn't frustration at Eli Manning
One good sign for the Giants' offensive line, but it's a small one
Eli Manning: 'I haven’t thought about the trade scenario'
Blow up the Giants, with one exception
There are rebuilds and then there are fire sales, and what the Giants are doing with their deconstruction project is going to be hard to sell to the remaining players in their locker room.
This franchise in transition packed up massive defensive tackle Damon “Snacks’’ Harrison on Wednesday and shipped him to the Lions for a 2019 fifth-round draft pick. ESPN was first to report the move. This trade comes a day after cornerback Eli Apple, the team’s first-round pick in 2016, was sent to the Saints for a 2019 fourth-round draft pick and a 2020 seventh-round pick.
Harrison, dubbed “Snacks” by former Jets coach Rex Ryan when Harrison was an undrafted player with the Jets, was part of the 2016 free-agent spending spree that refurbished a lousy defense. Former general manager Jerry Reese gave Harrison a five-year, $46.25 million contract, knowing full-well Harrison was largely a one-dimensional player — a run stopper. He is dominant in that one dimension, though.
This trade will resonate more deeply with Harrison’s now-former teammates. Safety Landon Collins tweeted “#Maaaaannn” and then “#Brrrrrooooo” upon hearing the news. When Lions linebacker Devon Kennard — who spent the past four years with the Giants, tweeted “Let’s go Snacks,” Collins responded with “Bruh go to sleep.”
The new coaching regime did not seem to warm up to Harrison, and this move has a different vibe than the one a day earlier for Apple, who was still playing on his rookie contract. Harrison was scheduled to count $8.6 million on the 2019 salary cap and $10.85 million on the 2020 cap. Looking ahead, it is clear general manager Dave Gettleman did not view that as money about to be well-spent. Without Harrison, the Giants will save $4 million on the 2019 cap and have $3.2 million in “dead” money.
Once the front office looked ahead and did not see Harrison as part of the future plans, moving him now and getting something in return was deemed wiser than cutting him after the season for nothing.
Ridding the organization of Harrison is more about his cost and his attitude in the locker room — the new coaching staff ultimately did not buy into his act. Harrison groused with team media relations members about speaking with the media and more than once declared he is not a leader. Head coach Pat Shurmur has repeatedly said that some of the best leaders on the team can be the youngest players, even rookies. The priority of this trade is certainly not acquiring assets, as all the Giants got back is a fifth-round pick. Consider this an addition by subtraction decision by the Giants.
Still, Harrison did have a constituency in the locker room, where Apple really did not.
Harrison, 29, is a 355-pound man-mountain and remains one of the NFL’s top interior defensive linemen, but this season he was getting on the field only about half the snaps, as he offered little as a pass rusher. He played 30 snaps Monday night in a 23-20 loss to the Falcons. The Giants, through seven games, are allowing 113.9 rushing yards per game, a disappointing 20th in the league. Harrison is Pro Football Focus’ seventh-highest defensive lineman and fourth best against the run. He is only 43rd in snaps among defensive linemen.
The Giants do believe they have some promising young defensive tackles. Rookie B.J. Hill was a Day 1 starter, as was Dalvin Tomlinson, the 2017 second-round pick. R.J. McIntosh, a 2018 fifth-round pick, is working his way back after coming off injured reserve and should be able to play some time after the Week 9 bye.
In the short term, this unquestionably hurts the Giants’ defense, as Harrison’s rare ability to take on double teams, cause disruption up front and often make the tackle are traits that cannot be duplicated by anyone on the roster. When a team loses six of its first seven games, radical changes are in order, and add this one to the list.
By Paul Schwartz
Damon HarrisonAnthony J. Causi
MORE ON:
NEW YORK GIANTS
Giants coach: Field commentary isn't frustration at Eli Manning
One good sign for the Giants' offensive line, but it's a small one
Eli Manning: 'I haven’t thought about the trade scenario'
Blow up the Giants, with one exception
There are rebuilds and then there are fire sales, and what the Giants are doing with their deconstruction project is going to be hard to sell to the remaining players in their locker room.
This franchise in transition packed up massive defensive tackle Damon “Snacks’’ Harrison on Wednesday and shipped him to the Lions for a 2019 fifth-round draft pick. ESPN was first to report the move. This trade comes a day after cornerback Eli Apple, the team’s first-round pick in 2016, was sent to the Saints for a 2019 fourth-round draft pick and a 2020 seventh-round pick.
Harrison, dubbed “Snacks” by former Jets coach Rex Ryan when Harrison was an undrafted player with the Jets, was part of the 2016 free-agent spending spree that refurbished a lousy defense. Former general manager Jerry Reese gave Harrison a five-year, $46.25 million contract, knowing full-well Harrison was largely a one-dimensional player — a run stopper. He is dominant in that one dimension, though.
This trade will resonate more deeply with Harrison’s now-former teammates. Safety Landon Collins tweeted “#Maaaaannn” and then “#Brrrrrooooo” upon hearing the news. When Lions linebacker Devon Kennard — who spent the past four years with the Giants, tweeted “Let’s go Snacks,” Collins responded with “Bruh go to sleep.”
The new coaching regime did not seem to warm up to Harrison, and this move has a different vibe than the one a day earlier for Apple, who was still playing on his rookie contract. Harrison was scheduled to count $8.6 million on the 2019 salary cap and $10.85 million on the 2020 cap. Looking ahead, it is clear general manager Dave Gettleman did not view that as money about to be well-spent. Without Harrison, the Giants will save $4 million on the 2019 cap and have $3.2 million in “dead” money.
Once the front office looked ahead and did not see Harrison as part of the future plans, moving him now and getting something in return was deemed wiser than cutting him after the season for nothing.
Ridding the organization of Harrison is more about his cost and his attitude in the locker room — the new coaching staff ultimately did not buy into his act. Harrison groused with team media relations members about speaking with the media and more than once declared he is not a leader. Head coach Pat Shurmur has repeatedly said that some of the best leaders on the team can be the youngest players, even rookies. The priority of this trade is certainly not acquiring assets, as all the Giants got back is a fifth-round pick. Consider this an addition by subtraction decision by the Giants.
Still, Harrison did have a constituency in the locker room, where Apple really did not.
Harrison, 29, is a 355-pound man-mountain and remains one of the NFL’s top interior defensive linemen, but this season he was getting on the field only about half the snaps, as he offered little as a pass rusher. He played 30 snaps Monday night in a 23-20 loss to the Falcons. The Giants, through seven games, are allowing 113.9 rushing yards per game, a disappointing 20th in the league. Harrison is Pro Football Focus’ seventh-highest defensive lineman and fourth best against the run. He is only 43rd in snaps among defensive linemen.
The Giants do believe they have some promising young defensive tackles. Rookie B.J. Hill was a Day 1 starter, as was Dalvin Tomlinson, the 2017 second-round pick. R.J. McIntosh, a 2018 fifth-round pick, is working his way back after coming off injured reserve and should be able to play some time after the Week 9 bye.
In the short term, this unquestionably hurts the Giants’ defense, as Harrison’s rare ability to take on double teams, cause disruption up front and often make the tackle are traits that cannot be duplicated by anyone on the roster. When a team loses six of its first seven games, radical changes are in order, and add this one to the list.
I get the gist of your post, but what have you seen from the qb’s drafted after the Giants picked Barkley that has you convinced they are franchise qbs?
I have no problem with the way the Giants are handling this. Management felt they had a playoff caliber team going into the season & like Piratz said earlier, a break here or there & they could be still in the hunt for the NFC East. Now that it's obvious that it's not going to happen, they are cleaning house & clearly in re-build mode. Key now is to get OBJ to buy in.
They are 27-44 since he was drafted so its not like they've been doing a whole lot of winning anyway, lol.
For me both Darnhold and Mayfield have shown enough to believe that they have the skill sets to be a 10 year QB an opinion widely shared by many professional talent evaluators who have seen them play this season.
Mayfield was gone at #2 so that's a moot point... So once again it's Darnold comparison...
For me, a franchise QB is the hardest thing in sports to find. The Jets have been looking for one my entire life. What I'd do is take as many shots as I can, especially at the top of the draft where most are found. Darnold may or may not be a franchise QB, but I'd rather roll the dice and hope that he is instead of kicking the can down the road and hoping to find my QB through some other avenue.
There's a chance that it "works out" for the Giants and they end up with Barkley and the top pick this year that would allow them to draft their QB. But if they don't, they're going to be going into full rebuild mode without a QB, while wasting Barkley, Shephard, Engram and Beckham's best years. It could be a disaster.
I watched Darold play in SC’s two biggest games last year, Notrs Dame and Ohio St. SC got blown out of both games and Darnold was the biggest reason why. Fast forward to last Sunday’s 17-42 1 td and 3 int performance and I’m seeing a pattern developing but I guess time will tell
How did they miss out? They'll be at the top again with Herbert being better than anyone in the last class.
And what if the Raiders get the first pick or the Broncos trade up ahead of them and take Herbert?
In the NFL today, a rebuild can happen in one year. They tear this down, build a line and get their QB in draft, they already have the skill players. 2020 can be back at top.
Maybe they have their QB on the roster in Lauletta. Is it likely, probably not, but could be. More than a few experts were high on him coming into the draft. I'm sure we'll find out soon enough. If he plays well, the Giants might not even be in the market for a QB come draft day.
In the NFL today, a rebuild can happen in one year. They tear this down, build a line and get their QB in draft, they already have the skill players. 2020 can be back at top.
Exactly. Rams & Eagles both sucked just a few years ago until they committed to building a line & drafted exceptionally well.
Exactly. Rams & Eagles both sucked just a few years ago until they committed to building a line & drafted exceptionally well.
It's been a complete disaster. 50-50? You are a very generous guy, 112.
A blind man could have seen Saquon Barkley was awesome, including every scout, GM and astute NFL observer. But to take him #2 when you have no offensive line and a 37-year-old QB on the downside was the height of ineptitude and has now become the joke of the NFL as every April critic's warning has played out exactly. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I can't say I have much faith in him based on what he's done so far.
They are in Year 1 of new leadership. You’ll know more by midway through the second season, but really need 3 seasons to evaluate fully.
1). Solder is hurt, I think. He is better than this. He was not worth the money, but that was the market available to him. The Patriots did offer him a huge contract as well.
2). People don’t want to hear it because they were furious Gettleman gave up picks for him, but Ogletree has been good for this team and will continue to be.
3). Omameh and Stewart turned out to be really bad moves. Fluker should’ve been kept over Omameh. The move to go with Curtis Riley at FS was brutal as well. All 3 could be easily jettisoned in offseason, although maybe you keep Omameh for depth. Brutal.
4). Gettleman’s draft looks like the team’s best in years. Barkley (1st), Hernandez (2nd), Hill (3rd) and Carter (3rd) are players. We’ll see Lauletta (4th) and maybe DT McIntosh (5th) later.
1). Solder is hurt, I think. He is better than this. He was not worth the money, but that was the market available to him. The Patriots did offer him a huge contract as well.
2). People don’t want to hear it because they were furious Gettleman gave up picks for him, but Ogletree has been good for this team and will continue to be.
3). Omameh and Stewart turned out to be really bad moves. Fluker should’ve been kept over Omameh. The move to go with Curtis Riley at FS was brutal as well. All 3 could be easily jettisoned in offseason, although maybe you keep Omameh for depth. Brutal.
4). Gettleman’s draft looks like the team’s best in years. Barkley (1st), Hernandez (2nd), Hill (3rd) and Carter (3rd) are players. We’ll see Lauletta (4th) and maybe DT McIntosh (5th) later.
People on here keep harping on the decision to skip over the qbs, but this team now wouldn’t be any better and obviously the Giants front office didn’t believe enough in the future of the qbs. Just because you draft a qb #2 overall doesn’t guarantee success
The free agent moves Gettlemen made were based in large part on the premise that they could be a playoff team by upgrading the O- Line, add a pro at running back to provide depth and be a mentor to Barkley, get help at linebacker and find a couple of DB’s to shore up the secondary. As you so rightly point out Omameh and Stewart were huge mistakes , Solder has disappointed and in evaluating his free agency moves you would have to give them a poor overall grade and a big fat F on their premise that this was a playoff team.
The question really isn’t whether the team would be any better had they drafted a QB but would they be better positioned for future success because they had their QB of the future. Of course if you were a fan of Darnold your answer would be yes, if you’re not a fan of him or any potential QB the Giants could have drafted, then your answer would be no.
Agree with his draft. When was the last time Reese had any 3rd round picks even get on the field never mind do anything? However his big 3 splurge on free agents were a disaster compared to Reese's big 3. That being said is an extra 4th, 5th and 7th round pick really going to make an difference in rebuilding?
Now if these moves had the Giants with two 2nd, 3rd (including Beal) and two 5s next draft I would have no problem with the fire sale.
Also the experiment with Flowers and signing a LG and moving him to RG were the same kind of mistakes Reese made.
They will have more than $50M available in cap space by the time the next year league calendar begins. They have $33M now, plus Eli’s $17M upcoming alone, barring any more trades. Thanks to the woeful drafting of Reese, they only have one upcoming player to work out a contract for, Landon Collins.
They will then have 9 draft picks, although only 2 of them are Rounds 1-3. They could earn a 10th (extra 4thRounder) if they cut Latimer (IR) by Week 10. Plus recovering CB Sam Beal (3rd) from this year’s haul who did not play in 2018.
They will likely have a top-10 pick, but will have to trade up for a QB they like. The only viable FA option would be Teddy Bridgewater. Unless, of course, they like Lauletta?
They will then have 9 draft picks, although only 2 of them are Rounds 1-3. They could earn a 10th (extra 4thRounder) if they cut Latimer (IR) by Week 10. Plus recovering CB Sam Beal (3rd) from this year’s haul who did not play in 2018.
They will likely have a top-10 pick, but will have to trade up for a QB they like. The only viable FA option would be Teddy Bridgewater. Unless, of course, they like Lauletta?
Problem is no one is going to give up a high pick for a 30 yr old DT with a big contract. I wish they had gotten more, but the extra pucks will hopefully allow them to build depth, which has been sorely lacking in recent years, and sheds some salary
The biggest question is what happens if the Giants don't finish high enough in the draft , a very real possibility, in order to get Herbert assuming of course that he's in the draft. If he's not in the draft and they don't see a QB worth what their draft position is , especially in a draft that's weak at that position, I could see them trading down, getting extra picks especially in the 2020 draft and hope they get a shot that year at the " Throwing Hawaian " at Bama
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Would the Raiders trade Carr? I’m not very high on him but he’s still young and maybe a change of scenery would help. The question is what would the Raiders expect in return. Plus, I don’t know his cap numbers but I’m assuming their high so might not make sense for the Giants anyway. The one thing I don’t want the Giants to do next year is play a stop gap QB. If you draft one, he needs to play from day 1.
I would be shocked if he isn't cut after this season.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/derek-carr-14445/
