Muhammad Final 5

[The_Wolf]

How many scholarships does Seton Hall have available? Powell-Gill-McKnight graduated, and Thompson and Brodie are transferring so that is 5 open scholarships, right?

Dimingus Stevens and Jahari Long enter as two freshman, and Bryce Aikens enters via grad transfer.

Unless I'm wrong doesn't Seton Hall have two available scholarships making it possible to land Sanogo and one more transfer?

1.) Cale
2.) Sandro
3.) Obiagu
4.) Nelson
5.) Rhoden
6.) Samuels
7.) Reynolds
8.) Molson
9.) Aiken
10.) Stevens
11.) Long

 

[hallgrad80]

It was cool to have to much size last year but look at the NBA or basketball in general. It is a guard dominated game now. Most teams are rocking 3 or even 4 guards and then like a PF or SF out there with them. IMO, above is exactly how our roster should be constructed.

The BE is not the NBA and the teams we face in conference have size and while we’ll probably not agree let me just add to my argument that we became a much better team this season because of what Ro was able to give us not only defensively but equally important as another offensive option.

 

[SHUHOOPS5]

How many scholarships does Seton Hall have available? Powell-Gill-McKnight graduated, and Thompson and Brodie are transferring so that is 5 open scholarships, right?

Dimingus Stevens and Jahari Long enter as two freshman, and Bryce Aikens enters via grad transfer.

Unless I'm wrong doesn't Seton Hall have two available scholarships making it possible to land Sanogo and one more transfer?

We lose a scholarship as punishment for the Thompson tampering case

 

[The_Wolf]

We lose a scholarship as punishment for the Thompson tampering case

Wow that really sucks. I think Seton Hall is better off going with Sanogo over Muhammad or the Wichita State transfer.

I think it's important because he's a big man which Seton Hall now needs and will need even moreso once Obiagu transfers. Sanogo is good, and a legitimate top 50 prospect from NJ and would hopefully a help a little bit with in-state recruiting.

Seton Hall also has plenty of guards on the roster moving forward- Molson, Nelson, Long, Stevens, and I'm sure they'll add more via transfer or incoming freshman in the future.

I think the ideal scenario would've been to use 2 scholarships to land both Sanogo and Burton from Wichita State, but that's not possible.

 

[hbkmyr]

Wow that really sucks. I think Seton Hall is better off going with Sanogo over Muhammad or the Wichita State transfer.

I think it's important because he's a big man which Seton Hall now needs and will need even moreso once Obiagu transfers. Sanogo is good, and a legitimate top 50 prospect from NJ and would hopefully a help a little bit with in-state recruiting.

Seton Hall also has plenty of guards on the roster moving forward- Molson, Nelson, Long, Stevens, and I'm sure they'll add more via transfer or incoming freshman in the future.

I think the ideal scenario would've been to use 2 scholarships to land both Sanogo and Burton from Wichita State, but that's not possible.

Why do you think Obiagu is transferring?

 

[thehall07]

Keep seeing that Ike is transferring , the only way I see it is if they waive the sit out year for next season. No way he leaves otherwise .

 

[RUTravesty]

If it came down to Sanogo or Muhammad I would take Sanogo and it's not really close. Sure he is an elite defender but there were stretches of the season where Muhammad was a straight up liability on offense. In a few years Sanogo could be dominant on both ends of the floor

 

[statenman]

I want whoever Willard wants as a transfer. He is batting around .900 with bringing in impact transfers who also represent the university well. I saw LM was suspended a few games last year, so if Willard wants him badly, then I hope we get him. Otherwise I’m good with who we have plus a 4* center.

 

[dehere23]

Truth be told I don’t know. But if you read the tea leaves I think it is obvious. Not faulting anyone; HC’s job is to win, winning helps his career, and fans prefer to win above all else irrespective of circumstances. Sometimes the notion is put out there that our particular staff wouldn’t recruit over a kid to effectively push them out. I’ve never thought that was true and I think it is proving to be true now.

What makes you think he or anyone is being pushed out? Maybe he wants to leave? Maybe it’s mutual?

 

[hbkmyr]

Keep seeing that Ike is transferring , the only way I see it is if they waive the sit out year for next season. No way he leaves otherwise .

I would agree. It just curious that the staff is pushing for multiple bigs (ie the Purdue grad transfer).

 

[shu09]

And this is the scenario that those pushing for outright FA cite in support of their argument. For arguments sake let’s say it is Nelson who is told to leave to make room, he now has to sit a year? Because the paramount interest for the HC and the fans is getting the best players in the door, even if that means pushing a kid out who will then have to waste a year on the sideline. The HC and fans interest conflicts with the kid in this respect, and yet the kid gets penalized when the primary goal should be to safeguard their interest. But this is what the proponents of the proposed rule point to on why it should pass.

Terrible take. Nobody is being forced out.

 

[dehere23]

Why do you say that?

Terrible take. Nobody is being forced out.

 

[shu09]

Why do you say that?

Because if we were in the business of forcing people out, Brodie and TT would have been gone this time last year.

If you paid attention to the games this year, you know there is one player who isn't exactly fitting in and may look for greener pastures.

 

[HallBall02]

Why do you say that?

Exhibit A: TT staying on team last year?

Willard does not seem to ever force a player out but with the no sit transfer rule, that may change the tone of discussions.

When talking about about kids future at end of year...maybe it is a more beneficial option to the player and thus the coach presents it that way...

 

[dehere23]

Sure, I don’t pay attention to the games.

Perhaps the reason why TT was around last year still had to do with other factors, including that he might contribute. Perhaps there wasn’t an attainable player the staff thought was worth getting rid of Brodie for (many here were clamoring for Juiston who went to a better program anyway).

I want to make sure I understand this if everything plays out how folks think (which IMO is a very good thing for next year and the foreseeable future).

When other programs “‘make room” to bring in more talented players, they are scumbags.

When we bring in an influx of talent to help mitigate against as big of a single season talent loss we’ve had in a while, we don’t push anyone out, but miraculously it happens to work out in our favor that 3 kids who were non-factors “decide” to move on.

There are plenty of ways to send a message that someone isn’t welcome when you think you can bring in the type of talent you need to sustain success. And to be clear I have no problem with that conceptually. I just don’t ignore reality. And I get why folks think this means kids should be allowed to move freely.

Because if we were in the business of forcing people out, Brodie and TT would have been gone this time last year.

If you paid attention to the games this year, you know there is one player who isn't exactly fitting in and may look for greener pastures.

 

[HallBall02]

Wolf how do you have inside info about Ike transferring and at the same time not know about the Hall’s scholarship situation?

Is your team recruiting one of the players we are trying to get?

BTW, I don’t see Ike transferring unless we get both Sanogo and there is no forced sit out for transferring (June NCAA change).

Wow that really sucks. I think Seton Hall is better off going with Sanogo over Muhammad or the Wichita State transfer.

I think it's important because he's a big man which Seton Hall now needs and will need even moreso once Obiagu transfers. Sanogo is good, and a legitimate top 50 prospect from NJ and would hopefully a help a little bit with in-state recruiting.

Seton Hall also has plenty of guards on the roster moving forward- Molson, Nelson, Long, Stevens, and I'm sure they'll add more via transfer or incoming freshman in the future.

I think the ideal scenario would've been to use 2 scholarships to land both Sanogo and Burton from Wichita State, but that's not possible.

 

[shu09]

Sure, I don’t pay attention to the games.

Perhaps the reason why TT was around last year still had to do with other factors, including that he might contribute. Perhaps there wasn’t an attainable player the staff thought was worth getting rid of Brodie for (many here were clamoring for Juiston who went to a better program anyway).

I want to make sure I understand this if everything plays out how folks think (which IMO is a very good thing for next year and the foreseeable future).

When other programs “‘make room” to bring in more talented players, they are scumbags.

When we bring in an influx of talent to help mitigate against as big of a single season talent loss we’ve had in a while, we don’t push anyone out, but miraculously it happens to work out in our favor that 3 kids who were non-factors “decide” to move on.

There are plenty of ways to send a message that someone isn’t welcome when you think you can bring in the type of talent you need to sustain success. And to be clear I have no problem with that conceptually. I just don’t ignore reality. And I get why folks think this means kids should be allowed to move freely.

You just like to stir up fake controversy, that's the real story here.

 

[Blue Bloods]

Because if we were in the business of forcing people out, Brodie and TT would have been gone this time last year.

If you paid attention to the games this year, you know there is one player who isn't exactly fitting in and may look for greener pastures.

And this is why the old adage 'things will work themselves out' does not always apply.

 

[dehere23]

Yes, that’s it. Or perhaps I recall the lengthy Juiston threads last year when the few of us suggesting we make a hard run at him getting mocked at the notion that our staff - which has higher morals than everyone in college basketball apparently - would never entertain that notion.

So this is a win win. Because if it plays out as I hope our team becomes much much stronger and the morality police are forever silenced.

You just like to stir up fake controversy, that's the real story here.

 

[hallsoccer03]

The staff will not force someone out. But if they see that the big picture that playing time will be extremely hard to come by and are being recruited over then their best move may be to transfer. Staff told. Roxie and Tt what was going to happen and they were ok with it.

 

[hallgrad80]

With more transfers announcing every day who is thinking about transferring at SH or any school has become a guessing game and rather then speculate who, if anyone , at SH is transferring let’s wait until their decisions are made public.

As to whether Kevin is forcing players out, I don’t see that as a practice he would follow. What I can see him doing is sitting down with each player and discussing what he envisions their role as next season and based on those discussions a player may feel that there are other schools which he would be better suited for.

 

[deheremike]

They dont do that.

Agreed. It means the staff is going to push someone else out.

 

[lloyde dobler]

It cracks me up now people watch the team play two games a week and think they have everything figured out, never mind what goes on seven days a week, behind the scenes and in practice.

Truth is that none of us do. We see that guys don’t get a lot of minutes, and some of it can be figured out and some of it can’t. But to make crazy assumptions with little or no logic seems kind of foolish.

 

[LeftCoastPirates]

Ok no inside knowledge here, but let’s look at things logically.

1. Prior to Aiken making his announcement, Nelson, the most tenured point guard on the roster got 5 mpg over his final 9 and and essentially got 3 DNPs to end the season.
Aiken did not come to Seton Hall over Michigan, Maryland, and Iowa St because he was going to split time at PG for his grad transfer season.
That is the definition of being recruited over.
Nelson can and should make whatever decision that best suits him, but he will only have 1 season at SHU to potentially play a major starting role at pg barring injury.
Tea leaves or no tea leaves, common sense would tell you that you would replace a guard with a guard. So if Nelson were to move on Burton or Mohammed make sense whether they are immediately eligible or a sit 1 play 2 scenario.

2. In terms of Sanogo and Ike. Sanogo does need to be the next priority target. Ike would not be transferring this year without the immediate eligibility waiver rules changing. the opportunity to play is there for Ike so a transfer would not be logical.
However, with Sandro graduating after next year; the concept of Ike doing a grad season transfer could come into play.
Hypothetically, if Sandro logged major minutes at the 5 to make room for Samuel to play at the 4, and Sanogo earned minutes over Ike, that would lead towards Ike being a bench player this year and being behind Sanogo in the rotation for his senior year. Hence a transfer in the future is possible.
Also the concept of being mentioned with Haarms should tell you all about the immediate confidence in Ike to start next year.

The fluid nature of transfers needs to be acknowledged and respected. It’s a part of the game / business that both players and programs use to their benefit now. To not think about how the puzzle pieces could align in the following years would be considered unprepared. It should be explored and that is what you are seeing with all the names mentioned.

 

[ivyhillparkk1963]

Just don't get Ike transferring. where would he go?

 

[Blue Bloods]

There has been zero chatter about Burton on here from our so called insiders. That leads me to believe we are out of the race for him.

 

[lloyde dobler]

Recruited over is a misleading term. It’s a lot like the term mid-major in that there’s no true meaning to it.

I had a friend who was a high school All-American basketball player. She went to a ACC school and made the ACC All-Rookie team. But through no fault of her own, because of some major internal problems within the team, they had a historically bad season. Because the coach was looking to get the best recruits available, even though my friend was coming off a good season, they signed another All-American that happened to play her position, and a lot of her minutes vanished and she ultimately transferred. Was she over-recruited? Maybe, depending on how you view the situation. But the coach saw that other girl as too good pass up, and it’s the coach’s job to win the ACC. It’s ultimately a rough business for everyone. As Willard himself said this year, it’s a not a charity, and minutes have to be earned.

 

[lloyde dobler]

Just don't get Ike transferring. where would he go?

Nowhere

 

[HallPirate]

Recruited over is a misleading term. It’s a lot like the term mid-major in that there’s no true meaning to it.

I had a friend who was a high school All-American basketball player. She went to a ACC school and made the ACC All-Rookie team. But through no fault of her own, because of some major internal problems within the team, they had a historically bad season. Because the coach was looking to get the best recruits available, even though my friend was coming off a good season, they signed another All-American that happened to play her position, and a lot of her minutes vanished and she ultimately transferred. Was she over-recruited? Maybe, depending on how you view the situation. But the coach saw that other girl as too good pass up, and it’s the coach’s job to win the ACC. It’s ultimately a rough business for everyone. As Willard himself said this year, it’s a not a charity, and minutes have to be earned.

Yes, isn’t this the definition of being recruited over?

 

[HALL85]

If a player is not progressing, adapting to the system and putting forth 100%, then a coach needs to do what he needs to do.

 

[lloyde dobler]

Yes, isn’t this the definition of being recruited over?

It all depends on how you view it ... in the eyes of the player or the program.

 

[dehere23]

I agree 1000% with what you said in the last two posts and I think you said it well. In the past when we missed on a kid or didn’t upgrade it was viewed as us not wanting to do something that others would do. I’ve always thought that was nonsense. Willard wants to win more than anyone - because that helps him and his family - and he will do whatever is needed. I’ve always thought that and especially since 2014. Because of success this year and some good fortune (Aiken’s case) we are positioned to get some real impact grad transfers and/or our best HS prospect in a while, and you can get he’s going to move anyone he thinks he needs to, whether overtly, under the guise of sincerity or otherwise.

And, again, this is a big reason why the proposed FA rule is out there. Because kids routinely get recruited over or expressly shown the door and folks think it is not fair to make them sit when that happens.

It all depends on how you view it ... in the eyes of the player or the program.

 

[williaza01]

ASU

 

[hallstorm]

I agree 1000% with what you said in the last two posts and I think you said it well. In the past when we missed on a kid or didn’t upgrade it was viewed as us not wanting to do something that others would do. I’ve always thought that was nonsense. Willard wants to win more than anyone - because that helps him and his family - and he will do whatever is needed. I’ve always thought that and especially since 2014. Because of success this year and some good fortune (Aiken’s case) we are positioned to get some real impact grad transfers and/or our best HS prospect in a while, and you can get he’s going to move anyone he thinks he needs to, whether overtly, under the guise of sincerity or otherwise.

And, again, this is a big reason why the proposed FA rule is out there. Because kids routinely get recruited over or expressly shown the door and folks think it is not fair to make them sit when that happens.

I think what most posters—at least on this current thread—are suggesting is that the option to move on is something either a player or coach is entitled to. A coach may not say it outright, but if he is forthcoming and tells a player that he will not play due to roster changes, is that forcing that player out the door? Would it be better to string a kid along and not say anything knowing that he isn’t what the coach thought he’d be?

I think these same posters believe that if a coach leaves, any kid on the roster can leave and deserve immediate playing time. That should go unsaid in my opinion.

The reason the proposed rule of not sitting out is being contemplated is because the NCAA doesn’t want to pay players and this is a pseudo compromise. Trust me, the NCAA isn’t doing it because they want to see kids have the ability to play for 4 different schools in 4 years.

 

[Fzacsattac]

Horse's mouth. Although things can change with the possible waiver situation and something else I can't reveal here.

With this whole virus thing I believe the NCAA will allow everyone to play this upcoming year but will leave the sit-out option up to the schools and players. Imagine all the players that want to be closer to home in case something happens or have a sick family member. Would not behoove the NCAA to be so callous.This is just my opinion and not from a source......lol

 

[Fzacsattac]

If he would sit out RU bound
Since wants to play next year SHU bound
I believe he wants to come home
Great defender

Rutgers not on the list....Reading is fundamental. Lol

 

[hbr1103]

If only you knew RU is not on his list by their choice not his

 

[dehere23]

Why wouldn't Rutgers want him? He absolutely can help them next year and the following.

If only you knew RU is not on his list by their choice not his

 

[anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0]

Why wouldn't Rutgers want him? He absolutely can help them next year and the following.

Rutgers was mentioned by literally nobody. I think hbr is making stuff up in his own head

 

[dehere23]

"I think these same posters believe that if a coach leaves, any kid on the roster can leave and deserve immediate playing time. That should go unsaid in my opinion."

Agree with you wholeheartedly and have been saying that for years. How the NCAA jerked that kid on SJU around last year was comical; the kid sat an entire year and then the coach he transferred to play for was fired, but the school was still holding him up from going elsewhere and he still had to sit for a period.

I also think you and I are in the minority on this from what I've read over the years here.