No , what happened was a series of really , really bad drafts beginning in 2009 and continuing thru the 2013 draft.
OT: NY Giants
- Thread starter Piratz
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No , what happened was a series of really , really bad drafts beginning in 2009 and continuing thru the 2013 draft.
Donnell is lost. He and Tye are showing why they were undefeated, unfortunately. Hope that changes.
I feel like Reese did a half-assed line rebuild after the aging vets were finally toast in that 2013 season.
Pugh and Richburgh are legit. Flowers looks lost so far and is on his second position coach. Literally did nothing to fix the other side.
So the passing game is out of whack and the run game is nonexistent.
And on defense the usage rates for Vernon and JPP are so high and leading the league due to lack of depth, will be a miracle they don't wear down.
Not much confidence in what I see from them even with a winning record at 4-3. Still a bad point differential. Let's see how they self-scout during bye week.
Thru 7 games the Giants are averaging 70.3 Yrds per games rushing the football , last in the NFL. Also strong rumors circulating that McAdoo may give up play calling and turn it over to his OC.
Further to this, the Giants rank 29th of 32 teams in yards per rush and 30th in attempts per game. BAD.
The lack of running game kills them in 3rd down conversion and red zone TD%, both of which they are also terrible.
Plus other then Shepard they have gotten little help from their 2016 draft with injuries hindering Apple and Thompson.
If they're going to be a winning team, a playoff team, that offense needs to find more balance. Teams are playing them well because they can cover deep and get a consistent rush against that line. You have to use more of the rushing attacked.
*They are 30th in RZ TD%. Part of that is inability to maneuver in the short field (and weak TE play)
*They have the 4th highest % of passing plays in the NFL
And yes, I understand that certain screens, quick-hitters can be an extension of a run game, but it's a weak extension because it doesn't move the defense to adjust players down into the box really and it's not physical.
The defense is good enough to get them to 8-9 wins, and their ST's are pretty good. That unit is decent, not great. They're not going to be dominant without a better pass rush and they are gassing their only two legit rushers, so that's a concern. Still issues in middle coverage as well. But overall enough to win.
*They are 30th in RZ TD%. Part of that is inability to maneuver in the short field (and weak TE play)
*They have the 4th highest % of passing plays in the NFL
And yes, I understand that certain screens, quick-hitters can be an extension of a run game, but it's a weak extension because it doesn't move the defense to adjust players down into the box really and it's not physical.
The defense is good enough to get them to 8-9 wins, and their ST's are pretty good. That unit is decent, not great. They're not going to be dominant without a better pass rush and they are gassing their only two legit rushers, so that's a concern. Still issues in middle coverage as well. But overall enough to win.
And they just cut Josh Brown after he and the team released conflicting statements. Even re-releasing a statement by Brown without the part where he denies ever physically striking his wife.
Two people in sports who I don't want to see or hear from are Roger Goodell and John Mara.
Two people in sports who I don't want to see or hear from are Roger Goodell and John Mara.
Any criticism that anyone wants to level against Goodell or Mara or any other sports executive who don't take the right action in DV cases is well justified. There is one common theme in far, far too many of these cases that occurs over and over again and that is the failure of both law enforcement, prosecutors and the courts in imposing appropriate sanctions. How does Brown not face any legal sanctions with a history of multiple domestic violence incidents over an extended period of time.
Another circus. Meanwhile the GM who re-signed the guy STILL remains. Poor drafts, bad FA signings, losing records, now this? Unreal. Just unreal.
Good read. So much for the offensive guru as HC. Maybe he needs to delegate more?
http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-g...nse-starts-with-targeting-odell-beckham-early
http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-g...nse-starts-with-targeting-odell-beckham-early
The one thing that stood out to me was the observation that Reese in his 9 years as GM has never made a move at the trade deadline and yet he keeps his job.
For some reason Mara is infatuated with Reese. I don't get it. And Reese is likely here for a while because they just changed the coach.
So let's say they end the season out of the playoffs again. Maybe even a losing record. In addition to the Josh Brown fiasco. Is Mara going to fire Reese then create an Idzik/Rex Ryan situation with McAdoo?
So let's say they end the season out of the playoffs again. Maybe even a losing record. In addition to the Josh Brown fiasco. Is Mara going to fire Reese then create an Idzik/Rex Ryan situation with McAdoo?
If it plays out that way and Reese is retained my interest in the Giants will go straight to the bottom out of the teams I follow and it will stay there until Reese is gone.
Given Mara's recent track record of making bad decisions why not.
If that scenario does unfold Reese is going to say I traded up to get Collins in the 2nd round and how has he looked especially after the Rams game? Then he is going to say that if the HC could have gotten his star WR to control his emotions against Washington we would have won that game, too. And how has the signings of Snacks looked along with the drafting of Hankins to stop the run? And while Vernon does not have the sacks stats, he plays with a great motor.
Reese did not decide to spend 100MM on his own after years of signing mid level FAs like Harris, Schwartz and Casillas. And JJP was resigned because as Mara said 2 years ago we want him back, at the right price. Now he got the right price and it's this JPP not the old JPP.
There really is no defending the front office and I think hall80 is correct about Ross. It was said that George Young modernized the Giants scouting dept. in 1979 when he became GM. I think that it needs to be done again because for the most part the Giants are playing with 1980s and 90s players if you ask me. Just like when Mara's father was involved in player selection and scouting.
McAdoo leaves a lot to be desired. I am not sure if trying to still run the offense while being the HC is too much right now for him since he's still a novice, but this really reflects poorly...
The Giants are in the 3-wide/“11” formation 96% of the time!!! 9-fn-6!!! What is McAdoo doing? This is nuts.
According to this, the next closest single formation is in the 70’s percentile and that’s the Dolphins.
The Giants are in the 3-wide/“11” formation 96% of the time!!! 9-fn-6!!! What is McAdoo doing? This is nuts.
According to this, the next closest single formation is in the 70’s percentile and that’s the Dolphins.
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Apparently, Reese is refusing to answer any questions regarding Josh Brown. Giants beat writer Dan Graziano had some strong words for him:
"Jerry Reese was in charge of the decision to re-sign Josh Brown. Ben McAdoo wasn't. Victor Cruz wasn't. For Reese to refuse questions on the issue while people in his employ do it for him is irresponsible and cowardly. He should be ashamed of himself."
http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0584785498183048693-4
http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0584785498183048693-4
"Jerry Reese was in charge of the decision to re-sign Josh Brown. Ben McAdoo wasn't. Victor Cruz wasn't. For Reese to refuse questions on the issue while people in his employ do it for him is irresponsible and cowardly. He should be ashamed of himself."
http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0584785498183048693-4
http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0584785498183048693-4
It's also not a very smart decision. It keeps alive the Josh Brown story as it started to fade into the background and , even worse , it creates the impression that the Giants have something to hide . That decision by Reese is also puzzling when you take into consideration that McAdoo and several players have publicly talked about Brown but the person most responsible for hiring him takes the " no comment" route.
Question is if Giants don't make playoffs again does Reese keep his job? Conventional thinking is no but something tells me Mara keeps him around. Problem is if you fire Reese the new GM should be able to pick his head coach and doubt Giants are going to let new GM do that and fire McAdoo after a year. That's asking for trouble.
That was always the issue with firing Coughlin and retaining Reese and why they both should have went last year. Mara seemed to put Reese on notice going into the season, but I'm not really buying much of what he says anymore. Unfortunately, I think the Mara's and the Lakers' Buss families are very similar - Wellington and Jerry were great owners, but their sons are both in over their heads.
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Personally I believe that Mara doesn't want to fire either Reese or Ross but if the Giants miss the playoffs again I don't think he has any choice but to let Reese , and hopefully Ross as wel go. if the rumors are true that Tisch wanted both Reese and TC out last year but agreed to give Reese another year at Mara's urging then no playoffs no Reese.
A
anon_4htvdezyfe7k9
Guest
I really think it's time for them to accept the fact that this team needs a major overhaul and rebuild. I know you don't necessarily ever "rebuild" in the NFL, but time to face the facts. Eli is 35 and will be 36 before the SB is played. Their best player clearly has some emotional issues that have as good a chance of continuing to negate his value as they do to be resolved. There aren't a whole lot of bright spots anywhere on either side of the ball.
I think it's time to clean house from Reese to the entire coaching staff and start to look at targeting a future franchise QB, among many of the other glaring needs. If that requires trading the few players with value they have in the offseason, so be it. That includes Eli and Beckham. They are already behind Dallas and Philly, and probably even Washington now when it comes to having a legit QB of the future. They held that distinction for a while and it paid off.
I think it's time to clean house from Reese to the entire coaching staff and start to look at targeting a future franchise QB, among many of the other glaring needs. If that requires trading the few players with value they have in the offseason, so be it. That includes Eli and Beckham. They are already behind Dallas and Philly, and probably even Washington now when it comes to having a legit QB of the future. They held that distinction for a while and it paid off.
I don't get the Ledger anymore but read today's Ledger while waiting for my car to be serviced and Politi did a real number on Reese and his refusal to take questions about Josh Brown.
The roster is better this year than it was last, but still needs major reinforcements along both lines. A crafty GM can make them quickly and get this team moving.
The other question is McAdoo. I have no idea if he's any good or not yet. So far I see him as ho-hum and probably not seasoned enough to be HC yet.
The other question is McAdoo. I have no idea if he's any good or not yet. So far I see him as ho-hum and probably not seasoned enough to be HC yet.
Hard to judge the coach with this terrible line, TEs and RBs. With that said how they lined up in the same formation almost every single time tells me that as a O coordinator he is either over his head or the players are not getting it or both.
Don't think a rookie head coach should be calling offensive plays as well. Too much too soon if you ask me.
To show how bad the Reese/Ross drafts have been in finding RB's and TE's here's a quick recap of those choices beginning with the 2009 Draft.
Running Backs
Andre Brown - Round 4 ,2009
DaRel Scott - Round 7, 2011
David Wilson - Round 1, 2012
Michael Cox - Round 7 , 2013
Andre Williams - Round 4, 2014
Paul Perkins - Round 5, 2016
Tight Ends
Travis Beckum - Round 3, 2009
Adrian Robinson - Round 4,2011
Jerrel Adams - Round 6, 2016
Piratz, 80 and 112,
Check out this article onthe Giants OL. Piratz about your comment on Hart being small for an OT it seem the Giants do not play or even draftOL that are huge 340lb types especially at OT.
http://www.northjersey.com/sports/football/giants/giants-showing-patience-faith-in-o-line-1.1688208
Check out this article onthe Giants OL. Piratz about your comment on Hart being small for an OT it seem the Giants do not play or even draftOL that are huge 340lb types especially at OT.
http://www.northjersey.com/sports/football/giants/giants-showing-patience-faith-in-o-line-1.1688208
TD82
Just one observation , if the line is doing the job as Reese argues why is Eli so uncomfortable in the pocket and why isn't he going downfield more. I would suggest the answer is the OL isn't giving him the time he needs nor opening any holes for the RB's.
If I remember correctly in another post you raised the question that it may be time for the Giants to overhaul the way they evaluate talent and I couldn't agree more. As to Hart he was drafted as a RB and converted to play the OL and that certainly could explain his lack of size.
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Regarding Jerry Reese, consider even a stopped clock is right twice a day. He should've been let go last season.
80, I think Eli still is comfortable going down field as he was yesterday. But, it did seem starting with the Minnesota game where he was throwing the ball into the ground it was the start of something weird. No question this OL can't run block well enough. Some of my observations yesterday Flowers got a bogus holding call and on that play and several others he put Connor Barwin a legit pass rusher on the ground.
.As far as Reese to me he does not draft like Ernie or even a GM who was a hands on college scout. He has the same kind of conviction about drafting players like Young and Ernie, but the reaching for players like Stinsom, Beatty, Brewer, Austin and even Pugh is unbelievable. I have no idea what Ross could have seen in players like these at least as such high draft picks.
If Young or Ascorsi were still here you would not have Mara involved with the draft and FA like this. Thing of some of the comments from Mara the last few years and then the actions? The offense is broken. We have a whole lot of holes especially on defense. We certainly want JPP and Rolle back, at the right price etc.
Bobby Hart played in some big games at FSU at RT.
CAREER NOTES:
- Three-year starter was forced into the lineup because of injuries as a 17-year-old true freshman in 2011 and steadily improved…Started 37 games in his career, including 28 in a row at right tackle in 2013014, when he earned consecutive All-ACC honors.
2014:
- Started all 14 games at right tackle…All-ACC 3rd team…Dominant down the stretch for the Seminoles, with an average grade of 84 over the last 4 games, including a team-best 89 at Miami…Leader of one of the nation’s top offenses, which averaged 33.7 points and 441.4 total yards...Helped pave the way for FSU to pile up 574 yards of total offense vs. the nation’s then-top-ranked defense at Louisville...Key protector of QB Jameis Winston, the NFL’s No. 1 overall draft choice, who led the ACC in passing yards and total offense...Opened holes for Dalvin Cook to set the FSU freshman record for rushing yards (1,008) and became the 1st Seminole rookie back to rush for 1,000 yards.
I can't help to be jealous of the Cowboys and Raiders offensive lines. They are huge, athletic and are at the heart of both teams resurgence. Very different from our O line. Yesterday the Giants O line seemed to do a little better with pass protection. But Eli also got the ball out of his hands quickly for most of his throws. He moved around in the pocket better yesterday buying a little time which he needs to do more of. His interception was awful on that last drive. The O line did not make many holes for the running game though and allowed a lot of backfield penetration. Still a major work in progress but won the game between two middling teams. I'm still not a believer yet but I do like the fact that the D held onto the game and made 3 very key stops on 4th down. A few puzzling choices by Pederson to not take the points and that helped the Giants in a big way.
Was in Philly yesterday and listened to the post-game radio show in the car and had a fun time listening to the cry-baby Eagle fans. It was great! What is the difference between a baby and a Philly fan? A baby stops whining after a while...
Was in Philly yesterday and listened to the post-game radio show in the car and had a fun time listening to the cry-baby Eagle fans. It was great! What is the difference between a baby and a Philly fan? A baby stops whining after a while...
TD82
I still believe that a big part of the problem is what attributes the Giants value when they are looking to draft players or acquire them in free agency especially at some of the positions where they can't seem to get it right like running back, tight end, linebacker and even the OL. Just too many misses particularly when they've been in a relatively high draft position like last year when they went for Apple instead of an offensive lineman.
I still believe that a big part of the problem is what attributes the Giants value when they are looking to draft players or acquire them in free agency especially at some of the positions where they can't seem to get it right like running back, tight end, linebacker and even the OL. Just too many misses particularly when they've been in a relatively high draft position like last year when they went for Apple instead of an offensive lineman.
Pugh has been great this year. He and Collins have been Pro Bowl caliber.
The team is going to play all of these high wire acts until they can run the ball and dictate situationally. Don't think that will happen.
The defensive improvements are why they are 5-3 and winning these games they lost last year.
The team is going to play all of these high wire acts until they can run the ball and dictate situationally. Don't think that will happen.
The defensive improvements are why they are 5-3 and winning these games they lost last year.
Good stuff. The line played better against the Philadelphia than I expected. They (finally) seemed to switch up looks and formations as well a bit. But the line remains a weak until the tackles step up. If you cannot run, you can never put a game away. It was the same problem last year.
Pro Football Focus has Flowers rated the 32nd tackle in the league (42nd pass block, 18th run block) and Hart 62nd (59th pass block, 54th run block). Not good. Justin Pugh the best guard, John Jerry 22nd. Weston Richburg #25 at center, so he's been a bit down.
I do not like the match-up against Cincinnati tomorrow. Geno Atkins could have a field day with Pugh out.
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