Was talking to my dad yesterday about the game tonight and said the same thing about Atkins. He will probably be a nightmare and in the backfield all night. Hopefully we see a lot of quick screens and slants tonight. I don't think Eli will have enough time to get much going down the field.
OT: NY Giants
- Thread starter Piratz
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Was talking to my dad yesterday about the game tonight and said the same thing about Atkins. He will probably be a nightmare and in the backfield all night. Hopefully we see a lot of quick screens and slants tonight. I don't think Eli will have enough time to get much going down the field.
I just don't like how they play. This has been going on for years now because the personnel is never aligned to enable them to have balance on the offensive end.
The fact that they have been near dead last in the NFL in rushing yards/attempt for most of these 4-playoff-less seasons isn't a coincidence.
The fact that they have been near dead last in the NFL in rushing yards/attempt for most of these 4-playoff-less seasons isn't a coincidence.
Was also talking to my dad about this - do you think Tuck belongs in the Ring of Honor?
Without question. Tuck could have been named a super bowl MVP if not for Eli.
Piratz said: ↑
Good stuff. The line played better against the Philadelphia than I expected. They (finally) seemed to switch up looks and formations as well a bit. But the line remains a weak until the tackles step up. If you cannot run, you can never put a game away. It was the same problem last year.
Pro Football Focus has Flowers rated the 32nd tackle in the league (42nd pass block, 18th run block) and Hart 62nd (59th pass block, 54th run block). Not good. Justin Pugh the best guard, John Jerry 22nd. Weston Richburg #25 at center, so he's been a bit down.
Pugh is not even close to as good as Marshal Yanda, Osemele Kelechi, Trai Turner, Josh Sitton Gabe Jackson, Zach Martin, Kevin Zeitler, Evan Mathis or even Collins from Dallas to name a few. If Pugh were really so good the Giants would be able to run the ball better as they run to the left side most times.
Good win last night. Collins and Shepard look like excellent draft picks and Eli Apple rebounded off a horrible game. It does not look like to me that Roger Lewis is ready to take PT away from Victor Cruz.
It is all there for the Giants now. Go 5-2 the rest of the way. Nice introduction by Strahan for Coughlin into the ROF.
It is all there for the Giants now. Go 5-2 the rest of the way. Nice introduction by Strahan for Coughlin into the ROF.
Giants next 3 games are against Chicago, Cleveland and Pittsburgh who have a combined 6 wins this year. Gotta take 2/3 at least.
If Jennings can start getting these 1-2 bursts a game for 10 yards or more, that helps take heat off of Eli more than anything.
If Jennings can start getting these 1-2 bursts a game for 10 yards or more, that helps take heat off of Eli more than anything.
I've been one of Reese's biggest critics but Collins and Shepard look like great picks. Gotta give him credit for that. Right now the Giants have a negative point differential and a negative turnover margin but are 6-3 and in contention for a playoff spot. Crazy stuff.
I agree. It was a great night for the Giants. The ROH ceremony was great. Love those Coughlin speeches.
Collins' maturity has been outstanding. To be fair, he and Shepard are high-2nd Round picks and should be contributors. But with Reese's history nothing should be taken for granted, lol. Good picks.
This team is the polar opposite of last year; they are making plays late instead of blowing it. They are 6-3 despite a negative point different and -8 turnover rate. That is unheard of. It's all because of the defensive improvements. Spags and staff deserve a TON of credit.
Below are some key stats from this year versus last year. And that's why you don't have those heartbreaking last minute collapses this year:
Yards/play = 7th vs. 30th
Rush yards/attempt = 6th vs. 24th
Net pass yards/attempt = 9th vs. 29th
Opp completion % = 5th vs. 27th
Red Zone = 1st vs. 12th
3rd Down = 15th vs. 32nd
Still a one dimensional offense offense as they rank next to last in rushing accumulating only 668 yards thru 9 games, a 74.4 yards per game average . Spags and his staff do deserve a ton of credit for the improvement on defense. Loved the crazy spread formation the Bengals ran to score their first TD.
I agree and that's what's keeping them on the high wire act both in terms of game flow and points scored. Despite 6-3 I feel like they could easily be 3-6 too.
After they wrap up with the lowly Bears (2-7) and Browns (0-11), they have a very tough schedule. They still have to play at Pittsburgh, at Philadelphia, at Washington, and home against Detroit and Dallas, too.
I could see them at 8 - 3 after the next two games and then finish the year at 8-8 or 9-7 given their last five opponents.
i do. He meets all of my criteria: Team leader, star player (Pro Bowl level), longevity with the Giants, and championships.
They've now put in Tuck, Umeniyora, and Snee from that 2005-12 group who won the 2 SB's. They all fit that critera, and I think Diehl deserves it too. We can probably debate Rolle and Bradshaw. Others like Webster, Jacobs, Kiwanuka, MacKenzie likely fall short.
When I had posted this, I wasn't 100% certain of who was in the Ring of Honor to date. After looking through the names and seeing Osi and Snee listed, I feel Tuck absolutely belongs to be in there.
My issue isn't really with Tuck or the Giants, it's with most of the professional teams in general. John Lynch was inducted into the Broncos Ring of Honor a few weeks ago - why? He played the last 4 years of his 15 year career there and will be remembered as a Buccaneer. By honoring all these players it cheapens the accomplishment, IMO.
With that said, I have no issue with Tuck being inducted.
Remarkable statistics:
In 2014 and 2015 the Giants finished 6-10 both seasons, 12-20 overall. Of those 32 games, 16 of them were decided by one possession and the Giants were 3-13 in such games, including 0-3 in games decided by one point.
This year they are 6-2 in games decided by one possession, 2-0 in games decided by one point.
In 2014 and 2015 the Giants finished 6-10 both seasons, 12-20 overall. Of those 32 games, 16 of them were decided by one possession and the Giants were 3-13 in such games, including 0-3 in games decided by one point.
This year they are 6-2 in games decided by one possession, 2-0 in games decided by one point.
This is where I think it'll be as well. They're just not a complete team but we'll see.
Gotta make those PAT's . It changes the dynamic of the game because in many cases instead of a four point lead a team only has a three point lead . In end of game situations that means your opponent doesn't have to go for a TD but only needs a FG to force overtime.
My first chance to comment on the Giants in a long time. The good news
will be that the Giant's situation will improve in both of the early games on
Thanksgiving no matter what happens. It would probably be better if
the Vikings fizzle out so the Big Blue can stay ahead of them in the WildCard
race. Looks like The Giants, Redskins and Vikings will compete for those 2 spots. GB
would need to run the table in my opinion.
They could still win the division if the Cowboys go in to a tailspin. A win today over
the Redskins will be a big step for the Cowboys sealing the division. A loss and
the Giants could finally force the Cowboys to feel some heat. The Giants have
to beat the Browns and probably have to beat the Steelers for a realistic chance.
The Cowboys really should have lost to the Eagles and Steelers, so they're not a
perfect team either.
I'm not sure what the Giants really are this season. They look like an 8-8 or 9-7 team
in a normal year. The schedule is creating some of their success. They are trending up
though and the investment in the defense is paying dividends. Their defense is better plain
and simple. I believe they will make the playoffs with 10 wins. So they need the Browns'
win and then 2 more. They must beat Detroit at home and any other game. If they go back
to that absurd conservative play calling with the lead like they did against the Bears it will bite
them next time. So they have to improve their running game and play selection.
will be that the Giant's situation will improve in both of the early games on
Thanksgiving no matter what happens. It would probably be better if
the Vikings fizzle out so the Big Blue can stay ahead of them in the WildCard
race. Looks like The Giants, Redskins and Vikings will compete for those 2 spots. GB
would need to run the table in my opinion.
They could still win the division if the Cowboys go in to a tailspin. A win today over
the Redskins will be a big step for the Cowboys sealing the division. A loss and
the Giants could finally force the Cowboys to feel some heat. The Giants have
to beat the Browns and probably have to beat the Steelers for a realistic chance.
The Cowboys really should have lost to the Eagles and Steelers, so they're not a
perfect team either.
I'm not sure what the Giants really are this season. They look like an 8-8 or 9-7 team
in a normal year. The schedule is creating some of their success. They are trending up
though and the investment in the defense is paying dividends. Their defense is better plain
and simple. I believe they will make the playoffs with 10 wins. So they need the Browns'
win and then 2 more. They must beat Detroit at home and any other game. If they go back
to that absurd conservative play calling with the lead like they did against the Bears it will bite
them next time. So they have to improve their running game and play selection.
Generally speaking, the Cowboys dictate tempo and are doing just enough in situational football on defense and the two become interconnected. They are either #1 or #2 in TOP.
Cannot believe Kirk Cousins went 41/53 with 3TD and the Redskins put up more than 500 yards of offense and lost, but that's what happens when you're only 2/5 in the RZ in this league. That speaks to the point made above. I think it's something like only the 4th time in NFL history a team has put up that amount of offense and lost.
Cannot believe Kirk Cousins went 41/53 with 3TD and the Redskins put up more than 500 yards of offense and lost, but that's what happens when you're only 2/5 in the RZ in this league. That speaks to the point made above. I think it's something like only the 4th time in NFL history a team has put up that amount of offense and lost.
I don't know what is being said at halftime, but the last several games the Giant defense seems to me to be playing faster and with more intensity in the second half. The offense to me seems performing below expectations going into the season. While their OL wasn't going to be as good as the line for the Cowboys, Its possible the Giant's injuries on the OL have prevented them from developing the necessary chemistry. I agree with the post above, the Giants' record could just as well been reversed.
The difference with the Giants this year is really the money poured into the defense. Those guys have been outstanding and have really stepped up when they needed to. The offense is worse because the line is worse than last year, despite upgrades at WR. Last year they scored 30+ points 7 times; 0 yet this year.
Last year at this time they were 5-5 with a +20 point differential, including two one-point losses (Dallas, New England).
This year they are 7-3 with a +4 point differential, including two one-point wins (Dallas, Cincinnati).
That's the improvement you see when you import new defensive personnel.
Last year at this time they were 5-5 with a +20 point differential, including two one-point losses (Dallas, New England).
This year they are 7-3 with a +4 point differential, including two one-point wins (Dallas, Cincinnati).
That's the improvement you see when you import new defensive personnel.
Good piece here on the Giants' strengths and weaknesses. I'm sticking with my prediction from a few weeks ago - they struggle in these next 5 games and somehow miss the playoffs or they win the Super Bowl.
https://theringer.com/are-the-new-y...ham-jr-landon-collins-cbba2f521587#.1vlppyb14
https://theringer.com/are-the-new-y...ham-jr-landon-collins-cbba2f521587#.1vlppyb14
A
anon_4htvdezyfe7k9
Guest
I don't see them winning the next two @ Pitt and home against Dallas. Then 3 toss-up games home vs. Detriot, @ Philly and @ Washington. Without looking at every other playoff contenders remaining schedules, I'll respect Francesa's opinion that two more wins get them in as a WC, and possibly hosting a WC game. I'd sign up for that now knowing that Eli always has a chance to make some magic happen in the playoffs.
I don't know what they are. The defense is good enough to be a playoff team for sure, probably even good enough to be competitive there. It is not a great defense yet, nor does it have the type of ferocious, deep pass rush that the 2007 or 2011 teams had.
The offense is the really weak part. It looks so unorganized, still one-dimensional, and I think that is finally going to haunt them against these really good teams down the stretch.
They are still in "11" personnel 93% of the time, which is a shocking number. They still cannot run the ball (30th in yards/carry). They are very easy to defend. A far cry from the days of Jacobs/Bradshaw alongside a potent passing game with tandems like Burress/Smith and Cruz/Nicks.
I would've felt better had the dictated the pace and game against Chicago (2-10) and Cleveland (0-12). Instead they were hanging on for dear life in one-possession games late. I feel they are a pitcher with a sparking W/L record but 5 ERA and correction is coming.
The offense is the really weak part. It looks so unorganized, still one-dimensional, and I think that is finally going to haunt them against these really good teams down the stretch.
They are still in "11" personnel 93% of the time, which is a shocking number. They still cannot run the ball (30th in yards/carry). They are very easy to defend. A far cry from the days of Jacobs/Bradshaw alongside a potent passing game with tandems like Burress/Smith and Cruz/Nicks.
I would've felt better had the dictated the pace and game against Chicago (2-10) and Cleveland (0-12). Instead they were hanging on for dear life in one-possession games late. I feel they are a pitcher with a sparking W/L record but 5 ERA and correction is coming.
The 11 personnel thing may be the most bizarre stat I've ever seen from a coach who is supposedly an offensive-minded coach? I get they really don't have enough talent on the O line and at TE and at RB but wouldn't you think they would use more motion and different combinations to try and confuse the defense a little more than they do? It just does not make any sense. But I will take the W's all day long.
We will now see what they are made of the next few games. They are going to have to put up points against both these teams to win -at least 30 pts IMO to come away with a W. They will not hold these two offenses down completely. And our offense is going to have to have much more urgency because the possessions may not be there against these two ball control teams either. Gonna have to value their possessions and score some points instead of the usual 3 and outs in the first half and then warming up in the second.
Winning ugly! Going to have to step it up on all cylinders. Even with the defense making plays last week it was against the Browns.
Well they're at the predictable 8-3 we talked about the last couple of weeks and face five games that will define their season. They could lose all five but I feel that they'll go 2- 3 giving them a 10-6 record which should get them into the playoffs however if they fall to 9-7 by only winning one game of the five getting into the playoffs is less certain.
Several things that worry me are all on the offensive side of the ball and I'll list them in order of importance to me:
1. Manning doesn't look comfortable in the pocket and he's just missing too many open receivers .
2. We have no return game at all and to play ODB there is insane as he's the key to the offense.
3. How the hell can you not target Shepard at all and the first time he touches the ball is when you run an end-around with six minutes left in the fourth quarter , ditto with Cruz. All a defense has to do is take ODB out of the game and our offense disappears.
4. The OL is weaker then ever with the injuries there and Flowers could be called for holding on just about play.
5. McAdoo's play calling leaves so much to be desired and is so predictable.
6. Will someone tell Reese and Ross that having a quality TE is vital to an offense's success especially for a team that can't run the ball.
Could not agree more with your entire list, hallgrad80.
I think the stagnation and incompetency of the offense is because McAdoo is now the HC and has not delegated properly. Of course the OC is Mike Sullivan, who was more Coughlin guy than McAdoo. When he returned to the Giants last year he didn't even know McAdoo's offense. Strange setup, as usual with the Giants.
Truly bizarre because it is hurting them schematically.
I think the stagnation and incompetency of the offense is because McAdoo is now the HC and has not delegated properly. Of course the OC is Mike Sullivan, who was more Coughlin guy than McAdoo. When he returned to the Giants last year he didn't even know McAdoo's offense. Strange setup, as usual with the Giants.
Truly bizarre because it is hurting them schematically.
Giants look mediocre beating bad teams. For a few seasons, Eli's accuracy was really terrific, seems to be slipping. But I cannot remember an offensive player who is such a game changer as ODB. It is like watching a high D1 bound player in a HS game sometimes. The returning punts scares me too. But the man returns punts! They just threw a flag for my post ---Clipping.
If Harris returns ODB won't be returning punts anymore. Remember what happened to Jason Sehorn? Ugh!
I think they'd do themselves a favor by winning 3 games and that will be tough. So
the more realistic path is winning 2 of the 5. Best chances are home to Detroit and
at Philly. The Detroit game is the must in my opinion.
Beating Dallas may not get them the division but it's much needed for the win total. Plus
we want to see Dallas on a downswing going into the playoffs.
This defense can get us into the playoffs. Now we'll see if they are overrated in the next
5 contests. JPP's play is great to see.
The offense is above average because of Beckham Jr. The running game is just awful. Lining
up in that one back formation on almost every play is puzzling. Why not go with 2 wides on certain
plays just for a change of pace. Plus a regular pro set can at least disguise some options. If Perkins
can block for Eli then he can block for Jennings and vice versa. That trap play to Jennings on most
first down plays makes you want to throw something at the television.
They can still win the division, but they'll need help and probably would need for 4 of the remaining 5. The wild card is more realistic. The Vikings & Washington can't afford any slipups. GB needs to run the table and Tampa Bay has a long road to the playoffs.
the more realistic path is winning 2 of the 5. Best chances are home to Detroit and
at Philly. The Detroit game is the must in my opinion.
Beating Dallas may not get them the division but it's much needed for the win total. Plus
we want to see Dallas on a downswing going into the playoffs.
This defense can get us into the playoffs. Now we'll see if they are overrated in the next
5 contests. JPP's play is great to see.
The offense is above average because of Beckham Jr. The running game is just awful. Lining
up in that one back formation on almost every play is puzzling. Why not go with 2 wides on certain
plays just for a change of pace. Plus a regular pro set can at least disguise some options. If Perkins
can block for Eli then he can block for Jennings and vice versa. That trap play to Jennings on most
first down plays makes you want to throw something at the television.
They can still win the division, but they'll need help and probably would need for 4 of the remaining 5. The wild card is more realistic. The Vikings & Washington can't afford any slipups. GB needs to run the table and Tampa Bay has a long road to the playoffs.
I think Eli's been very jittery this year because that line is bad. That paired with the lack of diversification in formations and routes eliminates a lot of quality reads and availability, so you're not seeing a lot of those deep throws.
Right now his completion % is the highest of his career for a single season (63.2%), but his average yards is down again for the third consecutive year (7.34, 7.18, 7.03). That MVP-like 2011 season was 61% but 8.38 yards/attempt, wow.
Right now his completion % is the highest of his career for a single season (63.2%), but his average yards is down again for the third consecutive year (7.34, 7.18, 7.03). That MVP-like 2011 season was 61% but 8.38 yards/attempt, wow.
Yup , he married a good looking woman in Angie Harmon. Oh , you mean the injury he suffered returning punts.
A
anon_4htvdezyfe7k9
Guest
I never think too much about Special Teams, but why not throw Beckham out there at this stage in the season? They need a power play like that IMO. Missing me some Dave Meggett.
On the Special Teams note, please get rid of the kickoff. I know it's more commercial and $ time for the NFL, but hopefully they do it soon. Another small example of over saturating the game.
Heard there is talk of killing the Thursday Night games. Hope they make the right choice with that too.
On the Special Teams note, please get rid of the kickoff. I know it's more commercial and $ time for the NFL, but hopefully they do it soon. Another small example of over saturating the game.
Heard there is talk of killing the Thursday Night games. Hope they make the right choice with that too.
10 wins should get the Giants into wildcard game. 11 without a doubt would give them wildcard game at home. Conflicted on who I want to win Dallas/Minnesota game Thursday night. Minny has a pretty easy schedule after Dallas and has the tiebreaker since they beat the Giants. Think I would rather put Minny to bed but could go either way with who would be better to lose here.
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