OT: Tom Coughlin
- Thread starter Piratz
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Yes those players did fail them but ownership and the GM failed him and the Giants even more. The D is atrocious and its not coaching (Coughlin or Spags). Players have to make plays. But virtually every position on the D needs attention (even corner).
The offense produced in spurts. Not as efficient as it should have been in the red zone. When they get in the red zone the play calling is the most curious in my mind but they did enough to win more games. McAdoo did a good job but his failures came in the red zone in my opinion. He is a future star but I'm not 100% sold he is there yet. He is certainly worth keeping if he will stay as the offense and Eli have improved greatly.
This organization needs to make some big moves in talent evaluation and player development IMO. Reese should be shown the door first but I fear that will not happen. If so it will be HUGE MISTAKE by the Giants. The team is simply devoid of talent and the drafts have not been good. In addition every year the Giants seem to have really big injury problems. Is that just too many games? Is it the league? Is it the strenght and conditioning coaches?
And I think noone knows it more than Tom Coughlin that the Giants need a change at head coach. He gave the Giants everything he had and I think most fans appreciate that very much. He was a terrific coach and we could do a lot worse.
I would not be surprised for Coughlin to lobby for one of the existing coordinators to get the HC job. I wish him luck as he is a very good man, hard working and he did change his ways over the years as the league changed. Not easy to teach an old dog new tricks but he adapted and brought us two Super Bowl wins.
The offense produced in spurts. Not as efficient as it should have been in the red zone. When they get in the red zone the play calling is the most curious in my mind but they did enough to win more games. McAdoo did a good job but his failures came in the red zone in my opinion. He is a future star but I'm not 100% sold he is there yet. He is certainly worth keeping if he will stay as the offense and Eli have improved greatly.
This organization needs to make some big moves in talent evaluation and player development IMO. Reese should be shown the door first but I fear that will not happen. If so it will be HUGE MISTAKE by the Giants. The team is simply devoid of talent and the drafts have not been good. In addition every year the Giants seem to have really big injury problems. Is that just too many games? Is it the league? Is it the strenght and conditioning coaches?
And I think noone knows it more than Tom Coughlin that the Giants need a change at head coach. He gave the Giants everything he had and I think most fans appreciate that very much. He was a terrific coach and we could do a lot worse.
I would not be surprised for Coughlin to lobby for one of the existing coordinators to get the HC job. I wish him luck as he is a very good man, hard working and he did change his ways over the years as the league changed. Not easy to teach an old dog new tricks but he adapted and brought us two Super Bowl wins.
If Tom is gone , I hope both Reese and especially Marc Ross is gone. The Reese / Ross combo in the last 6 drafts has produced the following results:
42 Draft Picks
11 Starters
12 Backups
19 Out of league or on other teams
13 released before end of rookie contract.
Those numbers will get worse as a number of the draft picks are free agents and some will not be re-signed.
42 Draft Picks
11 Starters
12 Backups
19 Out of league or on other teams
13 released before end of rookie contract.
Those numbers will get worse as a number of the draft picks are free agents and some will not be re-signed.
Breakups are tough - this one particularly so. From all accounts, Coughlin is a great man and one who will one day enter the Giants Ring of Honor. It's an unfortunate end to a great career.
For me, the current state of the Giants and Coughlin's age dictate a lot of my thinking. This team is not going to contend for a Super Bowl next season barring some huge improvements in the roster and some of the current players stepping up their game. Because of that, I would rather bring in a coach who can contribute to the rebuild and take this team where it needs to go in 2-3 years. If the team were built to win now I'd retain Coughlin for the next couple seasons, but since they're not I think it's best if they move on.
With that said, Reese has to go. This needs to be a complete house-cleaning and Reese is as much to blame for the current state of the Giants as anyone else. If they force out Coughlin and retain Reese I will be livid.
For me, the current state of the Giants and Coughlin's age dictate a lot of my thinking. This team is not going to contend for a Super Bowl next season barring some huge improvements in the roster and some of the current players stepping up their game. Because of that, I would rather bring in a coach who can contribute to the rebuild and take this team where it needs to go in 2-3 years. If the team were built to win now I'd retain Coughlin for the next couple seasons, but since they're not I think it's best if they move on.
With that said, Reese has to go. This needs to be a complete house-cleaning and Reese is as much to blame for the current state of the Giants as anyone else. If they force out Coughlin and retain Reese I will be livid.
Lombardi, Landry, Shula Parcells etc. can't win consistently without good players. Going back to the days of george Young as GM, it was and is the scouts and GM who have the final evaluation of players, and the GM who makes the draft selections. the coaching staff may lobby for a position/player, but the GM is going to make the decision who to select based largely on how HIS scouting staff ranked the players.If I were Mara/Tisch, Reese and the scouts go immediately. I Coughlin wants to stay, I give him another year with a gentleman's agreement that absent noticeable improvement next season,he'll resign. The new GM comes in knowing this, and has the year to judge personnel both players and coaches
I don't see how Tom Coughlin could be the only held accountable for these past 3 seasons.
Coughlin has been a tremendous representative for the Giants. The organization and its fans should be forever grateful for what he accomplished here. I'd sign right now for two Super Bowl championships in the next 12 seasons from the new coach.
Coughlin has been a tremendous representative for the Giants. The organization and its fans should be forever grateful for what he accomplished here. I'd sign right now for two Super Bowl championships in the next 12 seasons from the new coach.
While it was time for Tom to go , unless you change who is responsible for building the roster , especially one as flawed as the Giants is, how much of an improvement can you expect from a new head coach. Listening to some of the sports media commenting on the TC decision , including several former Giants, all spoke to the level of talent that he had over the last three years .
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It looks like he still wants to coach.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...resigns-as-giants-hc-latest-comments-reaction
Paul Schwartz@NYPost_Schwartz 13m13 minutes ago
Coughlin: "I informed (the owners) that is in the best interest of the organization that I step down as head coach.''
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...resigns-as-giants-hc-latest-comments-reaction
Paul Schwartz@NYPost_Schwartz 13m13 minutes ago
Coughlin: "I informed (the owners) that is in the best interest of the organization that I step down as head coach.''
The bottom line is if in the 5 games where his team had the lead with 75 seconds to play had he had won 3 of them he would still be the coach. Then they would have to add another year to his contract to avoid lame duck status. The entire coaching staff has to go and Carl Banks talked about McAdoo's system limitations after the game particularly in the red zone and with Spags they were just trying to catch lighting in a bottle (again).
Mara has scheduled a 10:30 press conference for tomorrow.
This Reese stuff is just mind-boggling. Press conference tomorrow at 10:30 am with Coughlin, Mara, Tisch , and Reese. Hopefully he proves me wrong, but this is a terrible decision in my mind. What more do you need to see from Reese at this point?
If Reece is staying, why bother doing anything? Reece and Tom should have been sacked 2 years ago so they could have a new team try to rebuild one more good team before Eli retires.
I admire the NYG loyalty, but it is not helping their team.
I admire the NYG loyalty, but it is not helping their team.
Oh well I guess it was time. Excellent tenure as coach and now it's time to move on. I think
Reese should go also. Let's see how this plays out. We are in a different era from the Wellington
Mara' days. I pray that they don't go with McAdoo to save on a big salary. Plus Reese/McAdoo seem
like they are made for each other.
Reese should go also. Let's see how this plays out. We are in a different era from the Wellington
Mara' days. I pray that they don't go with McAdoo to save on a big salary. Plus Reese/McAdoo seem
like they are made for each other.
Carl Banks said exactly that about the red zone problems how McAdoo's system has limitation when the down and distance are in tight spots. Funny how the team ran for over 200 yds yesterday and the past few weeks the run game has been good once they committed to it.. He and Bob Papa also talked about how Pugh is better at RT. I can't believe they kept going with Newhouse. Randel with his 4th straight game with a TD catch. It was posted here he is a bust, but based on his production he is not. The staff really needed to straighten his head out. They have not made any announcements yet about the rest of the coaching staff which is strange. It should be an interesting press conference tomorrow.
Randle is no better than a 3rd receiver on most NFL teams. He comes and goes during the game - kid has potential but how many times did he stop running his route this year only to have Eli throw the ball for an INT or incompletion. The guy had the opportunity to make so many more catches with how much the Giants pass the ball and how much teams focus on Odell but he did not do it. He has potential but does not have the smarts. I think he thinks he's a No 1 guy but he would not even get playing time on teams with good WRs like the Steelers, Jets, Cardinals and many more.[/
I think you are 100% dead on here. McAdoo has done nothing to warrant him being the head coach. Giants fans can't be happy if this actually happens. Beckham is basically saving Reese's job. Just don't understand how you fire Coughlin and not Reese too.
Reese stays, Coughlin out?
Man. Oh well. My love affair with the Giants has already been pretty much extinguished anyway, just another indicator that it does not matter any more - for me that is, just for me.
See ya, Jints, it was fun.
Man. Oh well. My love affair with the Giants has already been pretty much extinguished anyway, just another indicator that it does not matter any more - for me that is, just for me.
See ya, Jints, it was fun.
I think it all traces back to Eli. They handle him with kid gloves. It's the reason they kept Coughlin last year. They don;t want to make him change systems again. They try to piece everything together to keep him happy. I think that might be what we'll see happen now. Reese stays on so they can transfer the HC to McAdoo (who doesn't deserve it) so everything is status quo. They can't bring in a new GM and force a coach on him.
I think you're going to see a lot of the players turned over too. I know you have felt all season that a better coached team would've pulled out those games, but I also think blame lies on the players. Many of them are not good and you saw it all season long in big moments where they needed a game-winning play.
You don't fall off a cliff and go from 3 consecutive winning seasons and SB (2010-12) to 3 consecutive losing seasons (2013-15) because of coaching alone.
You just want to make sure they get these next hires right otherwise it'll be a bigger mess with you start tacking on more losing seasons.
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Saving Reese's job and also the justification for McAdoo taking over as head coach. While the Giants offense has been much improved over the past two seasons, how much of that is the system and how much Beckham's otherworldly talent?
The 4 RB committee and consistent failures in the red zone over the past two seasons stick out. Not that I think McAdoo has done a bad job, I just don't believe he's who the Giants should hire as head coach.
Focusing on the wrong areas by zeroing in on the offense. You could nitpick every offense in the NFL, none of them are perfect. It's the defense. No team can carry a unit that performs that poorly and win. It will even out over time. You saw what happened what that terrible unit stopped getting turnovers. Couldn't stop anyone.
The offense put up 30 points yesterday and lost. 49 in New Orleans and lost. 35 against Carolina and lost. I mean, c'mon.
The offense put up 30 points yesterday and lost. 49 in New Orleans and lost. 35 against Carolina and lost. I mean, c'mon.
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2015 NY Giants Defensive Rankings
32nd in yards
32nd in yards/game
30th in yards/play
32nd in 3rd Down percentage
30th in sacks
30th in sack percentage
It doesn't matter how great your coach is, how great your offense and ST's are, you are not going to get away with running this kind of unit out there.
32nd in yards
32nd in yards/game
30th in yards/play
32nd in 3rd Down percentage
30th in sacks
30th in sack percentage
It doesn't matter how great your coach is, how great your offense and ST's are, you are not going to get away with running this kind of unit out there.
It was time for a change. Coughlin goes down as one of the best Giants' Head Coaches of all time, but the fact is besides the 2 SB championships, the rest of the time looks medicore in many respects. Team should have been good enough to win the NFC East this year as weak as it was and instead ends up with a poor 6 and 10 record.
Best of health to Coughlin in his retirement.
Yet despite the consensus that there is a serious lack of talent on the defense , the architects of this roster Jerry Reese and Marc Ross keep their jobs. The Giants are painting themselves into a difficult position. Since the new head coach will be a Reese hire, if next year shows no improvement and Reese is let go you have a coach who was not hired by the new GM but his predecessor , never a good situation.
I think coach is going to be hired by John Mara. And I would like to see if his brother and nephew would be let go as part of Ross and the scouting dept. failures being held accountable. And for UFAs, I completely agree with your earlier post that the organization will have to focus on quality over quantity not Chris Mara putting a rating and value on contracts for guys like Schwartz and Harris. On defense they need a FA who could produce something like 8-10 sacks or an LB who all over the field with tackles for losses and can cover. If they give the job to McAdoo it will be almost as ridiculous as George Young hiring Ray Handley and saying it was going to be him the entire time over Belichick.
It's been a major issue for a few years now as the old core grew older and moved on (Tuck, Osi, Kiwi, Rolle, etc). Mara himself said they needed to address it last year and they did nothing. Literally. Not a single impact player was signed or drafted.
Their defense has ranked 31st, 8th (flukey Beason/Hill year), 29th and 32nd in these four consecutive non-playoff seasons. And they've had two different coordinators. A mess.
Having Reese up there on that dais with Coughlin tomorrow is an insult. Yes, it's probably time for Coughlin to go. But for him to take the fall while Reese remains? Infuriating, disgusting, despicable...I could go on. John Mara went WAY down in my estimation today.
Many of Coughlin's former players are posting some really thoughtful testimonials to him on various social media. Players like Tuck, Rolle, O'Hara, Jacobs, and Weatherford in particular, among others across the game. Even Eli choking up. Check it out. You don't see this often in professional sports.
Those will be the groups that come back to the stadium and get the ovations in years to come. Coughlin left a great legacy and it will be celebrated the way Parcells' run was in the future.
Think the team has deteriorated from just that run? It could get worse from here with these guys running the show. We'll find out. So they've fired the offensive coordinator in 2013, the defense coordinator in 2014, and now the head coach in 2015. Reese is next.
Only 14/46 players dressed yesterday where drafted by the GM, who has had 9 drafts. Unreal.
Graziano nails it: http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york-gi...le-for-giants-predicament-as-tom-coughlin-was
Those will be the groups that come back to the stadium and get the ovations in years to come. Coughlin left a great legacy and it will be celebrated the way Parcells' run was in the future.
Think the team has deteriorated from just that run? It could get worse from here with these guys running the show. We'll find out. So they've fired the offensive coordinator in 2013, the defense coordinator in 2014, and now the head coach in 2015. Reese is next.
Only 14/46 players dressed yesterday where drafted by the GM, who has had 9 drafts. Unreal.
Graziano nails it: http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york-gi...le-for-giants-predicament-as-tom-coughlin-was
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For the second year in a row the Giants have a top 10 draft pick ( last year #9 ) and they really need to bring in a player who can start and make an immediate impact preferably on defense. It's also essential that they sign the type of free agent you cite in your post .
Piratz
What continues to puzzle me is how Mara and Tisch cannot accept that a significant part of the Giants' problem is the result of the poor job of talent evaluation , draft picks and free agent signings by Reese and Ross and not make a change.
I don't think the door is closed on this yet.
Also, Accorsi is consulting for the open Detroit Lions GM position and likely eventual HC position assuming the new GM wants to hire his own guy instead of keeping JIm Caldwell. Giants assistant GM Kevin Abrams will be interviewed. Remember Accorsi as consulting with the Carolina Panthers when they lured away Dave Gettleman.
Abrams was hired while Accorsi was GM of the Giants and I believe was their Salary Cap guy at the time. That's one of the areas the Giants' FO is well managed, LOL.
The Lions are also a team that could desperately need someone like Tom Coughlin should TC have another 2-3 seasons in him.
I had posted earlier that I thought Coughlin should stay ( if he wanted to ) and that Reese and HIS scouting staff needed to go. In furtherance of that thought, how many of Resse's draft picks FA signings, have gone on to spend a season with another team, let alone being somewhat of an impact player?
Coughlin was a tremendous coach and leader. The Giants have their work cut out for them in finding the right coach to deal with everything that comes with this job and then obviously figuring out what's salvageable and what needs to be totally dismantled from this roster.
This is the first go around for Mara, Tisch, and Reese on finding the lead guy.
The problem is that group of players that won with Coughlin ran their course and the team was ill-prepared to replace them because of poor drafts. That's how you fall off a cliff like this. There's a strong chance not a single player from the 2011 or 2012 drafts will be on the team anymore. There are only 3 left; Prince, Randle, and Hosley, who was inactive many times this year already.
You pay for that dearly in the NFL because you have zero depth in a sport so easily and regularly impacted by injuries and Salary Cap.
The FA's over that span have been weak, IMO. Only Ayers, Harris, and Vereen have been any good. The others have been average like Cullen Jenkins or JT Thomas, to downright disasters like Beason, Schwartz, and Thurmond. Not to mention all the money given to players like Beason and Cruz. A far cry from the days of adding impact players like Pierce, Burress, and Rolle.
That doesn't count the street FA's or undrafted guys they've had to pick up during the season, but mostly all toast except maybe Jasper Brinkley (Parker, Nicks, Dahl, Cofield, Meriweather, etc.). Turned out to be an alarmingly high number of those on the roster.
The drafts? Not much depth or quality here recently. Look at the difference compared to early-to-mid 2000's: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/draft.htm
This is the first go around for Mara, Tisch, and Reese on finding the lead guy.
The problem is that group of players that won with Coughlin ran their course and the team was ill-prepared to replace them because of poor drafts. That's how you fall off a cliff like this. There's a strong chance not a single player from the 2011 or 2012 drafts will be on the team anymore. There are only 3 left; Prince, Randle, and Hosley, who was inactive many times this year already.
You pay for that dearly in the NFL because you have zero depth in a sport so easily and regularly impacted by injuries and Salary Cap.
The FA's over that span have been weak, IMO. Only Ayers, Harris, and Vereen have been any good. The others have been average like Cullen Jenkins or JT Thomas, to downright disasters like Beason, Schwartz, and Thurmond. Not to mention all the money given to players like Beason and Cruz. A far cry from the days of adding impact players like Pierce, Burress, and Rolle.
That doesn't count the street FA's or undrafted guys they've had to pick up during the season, but mostly all toast except maybe Jasper Brinkley (Parker, Nicks, Dahl, Cofield, Meriweather, etc.). Turned out to be an alarmingly high number of those on the roster.
The drafts? Not much depth or quality here recently. Look at the difference compared to early-to-mid 2000's: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/draft.htm
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