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Checkmate

D
batts said:
Thank goodness for Leftcoast Pirates trying to curb the negativity about Sha's coaching and recruiting. It's all about the lack of NIL funds and having to take gambles to compete in the Big East against Teams which dwarf our NIL budget. Sha took a St. Peters Team to the final 8 but somehow has forgotten how to coach college basketball. Really? When things go wrong with our Team, the negative posters come out of the woodwork and spew doom and gloom nonsense. They are not going to be happy until Sha leaves for a program with a decent NIL budget.
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In my opinion Sha could not handle working in another power conference job. Let’s say he got the Louisville job you think he would be able to get away with not allowing the media to see the team practice, not holding any interviews over the summer, no open practice for fans, plus he probably wouldn’t be a fan of going to a bunch of fundraiser events. That’s not his personality Seton Hall is the perfect place for him.
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Mutiny on the Bounty

donnie_baseball
JCB11 said:
Think next year might be the last benefit of the doubt season before its rational for everyone to make some changes at all levels.
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Yeah, let's jettison a favorite son who just won 25 games, and is really the only guy I can think of who can turn NIL lemons into some kind of lemonade. My guess is he's going to have a lot of people in his ear from programs who can buy him better teams. Then when he leaves, the same people (also the same folks who killed Willard during the good years), will call him a traitor.
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Juan Gone!

S
Soto can hit but he can' t run and is not a very good outfielder. So good riddance. Use the money saved to actually surround Judge with sound ballplayers who can run, field and hit! Baseball is a team support where you need more than a couple of hitters to win. Pitching is the key part of the game that the yanks need to work on too.
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Felton

S
jcpetri said:
I felt this needed its own thread. What is going on with Felton. He was supposed to be our future point guard, but he is not been given a chance to play. I thought he gave us some good minutes in the time he's played so far but has been riding the bench lately. He will surely move on if Sha decides to keep him on the bench and next year some team is going to get a good point guard. Herein lies the mystery.
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I agree with you and not the negative people. From clips of him in high school and from the limited playing time he has been given I can see him becoming a stud point guard. Everyone on this team has made mistakes. Sure he has been somewhat tentative but he can handle the ball quite well for his size and has shown from HS clips he can score it too.

Why not bring him along and develop him when we have a down season? Now is the time to develop our frosh and soph players not next year.
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Juan Gone!

S
It's not exactly a bargain signing, but so what? It's pocket change to Steve Cohen. If he wants to keep Alonso too, he will.

Yankees fans didn't apologize for Steinbrenner signing every major free agent in the 90s/early 2000s and Mets fans shouldn't apologize for Cohen signing 1 major free agent now. It was a long time coming and they should enjoy it!
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Syria

P
Can't tell the players without a program...... From what I've read you have HTS as one of the groups of Syrian rebels with a history of ties to Al Qaeda.... they are identified as a terrorist group by US then there is the Syrian National Army which I understand is a collection of militias that are supported by Turkey. They have been at odds with each other over the years... and it's unclear how the power transfer will take place and who will govern Syria going forward. A bit of a mess. I'm sure there are more groups to mention, but these 2 are noted in a Guardian article.
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NCAA NET

P
Seton Hall is down to #210 today. What a disaster, man. You’d have a pulse at 8-2 without the 3 terrible losses. 🤯

Of note:

VCU = 68
----------------------
OK State = 85
Vanderbilt = 52
Hofstra = 188
Fordham = 221
Monmouth = 323

www.ncaa.com

DI Men's Basketball Rankings - NCAA Men's Basketball NET Rankings | NCAA.com

Get NCAA college basketball rankings from the Associated Press, USA Today Coaches poll and the NCAA NET Rankings.
www.ncaa.com www.ncaa.com
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Felton

jcpetri
I felt this needed its own thread. What is going on with Felton. He was supposed to be our future point guard, but he is not been given a chance to play. I thought he gave us some good minutes in the time he's played so far but has been riding the bench lately. He will surely move on if Sha decides to keep him on the bench and next year some team is going to get a good point guard. Herein lies the mystery.
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Dual & Middleton

B
SHallguy2 said:
Trust me he’s weeding out the losers, good players like coaches like Sha. He’s pushing them to be better, these guys need to be pushed. Are we watching the same games. We will be better by January because the kids he can push will be on the floor. Our coach knows what he’s doing, and he doesn’t care what any of us think. He has long term goals that include winning. Fans view the games under a microscope he has a vision of what they can become.
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So its going to take until January every year for the team to be watchable? Most of the team is going to turn over every year with NIL and the lack of transfer rules.
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Juan Gone!

SHUSource
rdefabri said:
And Bauer was cleared of any charges. He may be a tool otherwise, I don't know him, but man if I want to win - I don't care if you are a complete ass, let's just win. Reggie BITD was hardly a good teammate, but he helped win championships!
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Reggie had a monster ego and at a time fifty years ago when some people thought he should stay in his lane. No one would think twice about it now.

Bauer has serious personality issues, is unable to control his angry impulses, is probably a sociopath, likely a violent rapist (there is a difference between innocent and "not guilty," so "likely" is doing a lot of work here), and his teammates (no matter which team we're talking about) hated him. The guys on the Dodgers were thrilled to be rid of him; the few who ever spoke on his behalf were also unpopular. He just isn't worth whatever he brings, even if he can pitch, which isn't a sure thing after a few years away.

Fans might not care, but the guys who have to spend seven months with these idiots do care at some point.
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Checkmate

W
LeftCoastPirates said:
Just curious as to who is playing worse?

Wusu, feel like we know exactly what we have in Dylan. His skills haven’t gotten better or worse. Same effort on D, same mediocre ability to shoot the 3, does some dirty work on the glass and with steals. but yes it appears he is playing worse because Sha is asking him to play PG. This one is on Sha IMO. But Dylan is still fundamentally the same player he was last year and you saw that the last two games as Dual has played a lot more PG and Dylan moved back off the ball.

Coleman was injured and has been adapting to playing an Alpha role, but is he playing worse than last year? I don’t think so.

Jenkins has been a bright spot, so I would say not him.

Middleton last year average…
15 mpg and 4.4 ppg last year.
He isn’t shooting the three as well, but has started to pick up his overall game. Which kind of happens when you are a sophomore. So would not say him.

Dual last year…
18 mpg / 3.3 ppg / 40% 2-FG /25% 3 Pt
Shows athletic flashes that got him invited to the draft combine.
- Seems exactly what we have so far this year.

Toumi last year…
25 mpg / 10.6 ppg / 6.1 rpg /25% 3 pt /55% FT
- probably a fair example of a guy who might not be playing better than last year. But remember he comes from Evansville who went 7-33 in conference play while was there. So he was a contributing player on a bad mid major team. His FTs aren’t a shocker. I was concerned he would struggle with the physicality of bigger P4 schools. Today was a great example. Immediate foul trouble all day long.

Aligbe last 2 years averaged..
5.3 ppg / 40% FG / 22% 3 Pt / 3.8 rpg
Also his numbers declined as a sophomore
- I wasn’t excited about this pickup when first announced, and he is proving to be the same guy he was at BC when he was a role player off the bench for them. So not playing worse, just who he is. Probably not good enough to be a high D1 starting PF. best suited as a role player off the bench.

Okorofor last year…
1 ppg / 2.2 rpg / 55% FT
- he is exactly who he was last year.
Not sure why people were expecting so much more. Oh that’s right… Bediako did it, so that should be the norm or Sha can’t coach.

Tubek played 83 minutes last year. Feel like he has been better.

Yalden didn’t play. Nothing to compare his current performance to.

Godswill was supposed to be super raw out of HS. Most frosh seem lost, specifically on D. Everyone I talk to has been pleasantly surprised as to what they have seen from him. But that can’t be coaching that has helped him do that. Most likely not.

If you want to paint this picture that it is all “coaching” then please point out specific examples of which guys are doing worse compared to how they performed last year.
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This is well said and agree wholeheartedly on all of these points.

Let’s bucket players into these groupings

Exceeded - Godswill, Tubek, Chaunce (until recent swoon)

Met - Coleman, Felton (bizarre usage),

Underperformed - Middleton (rising though), Dual (same trending up), Wusu, Yalden

Disaster - Aligbe, Toumi, Harmon, Okorafor

This isn’t an abnormal hit/whiff rate. I think the issue lies more in Sha’s player evaluation and roster construction than it does on the staff’s player development
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Checkmate

S
getting shu to tourney consistently is a very good job.

i am the guy who coined "the great shaheen". he is far from blameless. i hate a lot of what he is doing. imo the offense is putrid and our style of plays is leading to dreadful results and boring the shit out of me. and the d is over rated.

it is early. most of the team is new.

we got taken apart by a team with 10 new players.

i remain hopeful that the level of play improves.
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Checkmate

LeftCoastPirates
Hall Berry said:
I think nutterforthree's point that nearly everyone is playing "worse" than last year is a bit hyperbolic, as you point out with each player, but why have nearly all players not taken any significant progress forward? Is there often not an "expected" jump between freshman and sophomore years, for example?

There were many who were excited when Middleton and Dual committed, but has Coach Sha really gotten anything more out of them than did Chris Holtman or Kim English?

Aligbe was the first commitment from Coach Sha in the off-season, for which I was intrigued. He's a junior now and does not look like he's taken any step forward at all. If you aren't going forward, you're going backward.

Toumi, a late commitment, was also viewed as someone who would contribute immediately in the front court, having averaged over ten points, six rebounds, the last two years. He even shot 54% from the field last year. This year, 5.7/3.5 in 20+ minutes per game.

And maybe Wusu doesn't look better or worse but, as you even point out, maybe he's not being put in a position to be most successful.

Keep in mind that all of this is against a strength of schedule thus far which KenPom currently ranks as 269th. One would expect better numbers now, with a regression to the mean later once conference play starts.

Believe me, I'm far from a negative poster (and do believe that the team will get better). But I think it is at least fair to ask 10 games in whether this team is being put in the best position to be successful.
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I think there is an expected jump if the same coach has had time to work with that player over that same time period.

Sha had Kadary, Dawes, and Dre Davis for two years and the improvement in all three was significant from year 1 to year 2.

All these players we are referencing now, Sha has had since the summer time to work with them. I don’t think that is an apples to apples comparison.

This is also why he is always saying they will get better by the end of the year. Because he believes he can coach them up. Unfortunately there might not be a year two under his coaching guidance to see that immense jump we saw from the players last year. Just not how the system works anymore.
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Dual & Middleton

SHUSource
Bud Boomer said:
Can definitely see the potential in Dual, Middleton and Coleman. Maybe we can sign those three to longer term contracts now, while their value is low? Is that even legal?
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Good question. My guess: It's legal, but probably unenforceable. So if their stock rises, they can head out just like anyone else. They just don't get what they were promised after that point per the deal. I guess the risk is that they don't develop and you're stuck with them, although I agree that all three seem to have a lot of potential.
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Checkmate

LeftCoastPirates
Hall Is Life said:
Leftcoast Pirates detested Willard so of course he will support Sha to the bitter end. Otherwise he’d have to walk away with egg on his face.
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lol. Detest is a very strong word.

I feel like Willard as Tom always says “left money on the table”, but was glorified for getting us to NCAA tournament consistency.

But Willard had gaps in recruiting depth at PG, issues with consistency running well organized offense, had his issues with the media when the team was struggling, and had internal player motivation issues that led to many players only meetings and the annual swoon. Many similar things that are we are seeing Sha.

I think many agree, Willard had rosters that over achieved and some really talented rosters that under achieved.

I didn’t want Willard run out of town. I just wanted a coach that wanted to be here. I wanted a coach who wasn’t getting complacent and constantly striving to reach the pinnacle of success. And I wanted a coach who didn’t always have one foot out the door looking for his next job.

Sha wants to be here. He wants to win so bad. He loves the university and all it stands for. His agent might leverage other schools to improve his clients salary. But deep down I think Sha has no intention to EVER go anywhere if he can be successful at Seton Hall. That isn’t easy to find in a head coach these days. I think we the fans, the school, the media, all have to support him in order to help him adjust in a totally new landscape of college basketball.

If he refuses to adjust and the whole Seton Hall athletic department approach refuses to adapt to this new age of NIL / transfer rules, then everyone needs to take a long look in the mirror.
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Big East Schools Endowment

SHUSource
hallgrad80 said:
Since this board raises the same question frequently that SH is lacking the financial assets to compete athletically here’s some numbers I was able to find , some of which may have changed since they were made public.

GT - $3.6 billion
Nova - $1.31 billion
SJU - $938 million
Marq -$917 million
DePaul- $907 million
Creg. -$745 million
UConn - $634 million
P- $321 million
SH - $318 million
Butler - $ 266 million
X. -$245 million
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For a place like Seton Hall especially, but in a lot of these cases, they aren't able to just spend down the endowment to fund things like athletics. They are largely untouchable, and the parts that are accessible are typically used to fund student aid and otherwise offset the cost of tuition.

If anyone ever has the chance to hear a VP of enrollment management speak on the formula institutions use to build a class, it's fascinating how they factor in the grades and scores of applicants, but also their ability to pay, how much aid they will need, where they are coming from, how much aid they can offer to attract students that would typically be looking at more prestigious schools, etc. There are so many moving pieces to building a class.
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