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DEBATE LIVE THREAD.

SHUHoopsFan said:
From my view she's saying, they were attacked, and like any country who is attacked they should and they do have a right in going after their attacker....who she wants is left unsaid and I believe left unsaid for a reason to make sure she doesn't lose the far left nutjobs from coming out to vote.
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It wasn't unsaid. Who she wants left is two states, Israel and Palestine each with security and self-determination.

"What we know is that this war must end. It must when, end immediately, and the way it will end is we need a cease-fire deal and we need the hostages out. And so we will continue to work around the clock on that. Work around the clock also understanding that we must chart a course for a two-state solution. And in that solution, there must be security for the Israeli people and Israel and in equal measure for the Palestinians. But the one thing I will assure you always, I will always give Israel the ability to defend itself, in particular as it relates to Iran and any threat that Iran and its proxies pose to Israel. But we must have a two-state solution where we can rebuild Gaza, where the Palestinians have security, self-determination and the dignity they so rightly deserve."
 
SPK145 said:
Kamala is far left and will remain that way. She told us all that with her statement that her values haven't changed. That's dog-whistle for don't believe what I am saying now, I'll say anything to get elected, and then go back to my far left roots.

Really looks like the Senate will go to the repubs. As for the House, anybody's guess.
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Are you worried for ted cruz or rick scott?
 
Merge said:
It wasn't unsaid. Who she wants left is two states, Israel and Palestine each with security and self-determination.

"What we know is that this war must end. It must when, end immediately, and the way it will end is we need a cease-fire deal and we need the hostages out. And so we will continue to work around the clock on that. Work around the clock also understanding that we must chart a course for a two-state solution. And in that solution, there must be security for the Israeli people and Israel and in equal measure for the Palestinians. But the one thing I will assure you always, I will always give Israel the ability to defend itself, in particular as it relates to Iran and any threat that Iran and its proxies pose to Israel. But we must have a two-state solution where we can rebuild Gaza, where the Palestinians have security, self-determination and the dignity they so rightly deserve."
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Yawn. Longwinded nothing burger. You want to twist ability to defend itself as rooting for. Nothing in there says I want Israel to win this war. Just like Trump didn't say I want Ukraine to win this war. You may respond back well Trump was asked that question point blank and Harris wasn't, which is why I would have wanted her to be asked point blank by the moderators.
 
Merge said:
fwiw, I don't see that at all.
Her record as DA and AG was not far left at all and the far left was not a fan of that/

I don't think a record in the senate translates as well. You're either voting in line or against your party and she was in line.
Not arguing that's a good thing, I just don't see it as an indicator of how she would lead as president. I don't see a hard left turn for her honestly and she would want a 2nd term so would be unlikely to stick her neck out for things that are unpopular.



This election would not be close right now if it was Harris vs Desantis or Haley. A shame that Trump has such a hold over the party.
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Agree with your last statement.

There were a few watchdog lists that listed her as the Senator with the most left leaning voting record. Some of those posts have been taking down.

Also according to GovTrack she was the 4th most left leaning Senator.

She's a clear heavy left leaning politician based on her record.
 
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SHUHoopsFan said:
Yawn. Longwinded nothing burger. You want to twist ability to defend itself as rooting for.
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This isn't as clear cut as a country vs a country because "I want Israel to win" can be interpreted as a win against Hamas, or a land takeover of Palestinian territory.

She wants Israel to defeat Hamas and a two state solution when it's over. I'm not sure what else you want her to say.
 
Section112 said:
There were a few watchdog lists that listed her as the Senator with the most left leaning voting record. Some of those posts have been taking down.
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Right. I just don't see a voting record as indicative of much honestly.

What we she sticking her neck out for in office, what bills was she pushing on her own, what did she sponsor, what became law?

Her record is more of being fairly ineffective and voting the party line rather than a far left politician.
She didn't accomplish much in the senate.
 
Merge said:
This isn't as clear cut as a country vs a country because "I want Israel to win" can be interpreted as a win against Hamas, or a land takeover of Palestinian territory.

She wants Israel to defeat Hamas and a two state solution when it's over. I'm not sure what else you want her to say.
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It's a little funny how people look at the 2 wars. Ukraine-Russia, just beat Russia there's no ifs, ands or buts. Israel-Hamas, well we want Israel to defeat Hamas but we want them to do it in such a way so we can thread the needle. She also didn't say I never met Putin. She mentioned he lies, but never said I didn't meet with Putin. It was almost like she avoided saying a full truth.

Speaking of Russia, surprised no pushback from Trump on Harris for her Putin would eat you for lunch comment. There's actually 4 years of record. We really don't have to imagine. Surprised Trump didn't make her explain how Putin ate him for lunch the first time around.
 
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SHUHoopsFan said:
's a little funny how people look at the 2 wars. Ukraine-Russia, just beat Russia there's no ifs, ands or buts. Israel-Hamas, well we want Israel to defeat Hamas but we want them to do it in such a way so we can thread the needle.
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Wanting Israel to win and for Palestine to exist with their own state was her answer.
I am not confused about where she stands.

What would have been an adequate statement for you?
 
Merge said:
Wanting Israel to win and for Palestine to exist with their own state was her answer.
I am not confused about where she stands.

What would have been an adequate statement for you?
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I support Israel defeating Hamas.

You're twisting her words to say what you want them to say. Because if you can say where you quoted that first sentence from I'd be happy to see where she directly says it. All I want to see is her flat out say it. If China invaded Russia tomorrow, I think you'd be for Russia's ability to defend itself. That wouldn't dictate who you want in the war.
 
SHUHoopsFan said:
You're twisting her words to say what you want them to say. I just want her to flat out say it. If China invaded Russia tomorrow, I think you'd be for Russia's ability to defend itself. That wouldn't dictate who you want in the war.
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Right - but assume you're talking about Chinese terrorists attacked and in response Russia starting talking about permanent occupation of Chinese land which is only going to make the situation between the two get worse.

The question of who you want to win all of a sudden becomes a little more nuanced. It's not as clear cut / black and white as you want it to be.
 
Merge said:
Right - but assume you're talking about Chinese terrorists attacked and in response Russia starting talking about permanent occupation of Chinese land which is only going to make the situation between the two get worse.

The question of who you want to win all of a sudden becomes a little more nuanced. It's not as clear cut / black and white as you want it to be.
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You go with who you want to win the war and then deal with what you have to after. There's never going to be a solution that solves everything. We still had issues to deal with after every war we ever fought.
 
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SHUHoopsFan said:
You go with who you want to win the war and then deal with what you have to after. There's never going to be a solution that solves everything. We still had issues to deal with after every war we ever fought.
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Right and she has said she wants Hamas defeated many times. You just want her to say something other than what she has already said. I'm just not sure what that is.

"Let me be also very clear, as I’ve said before: We cannot conflate Hamas with the Palestinian people. Hamas is a brutal terrorist organization. Hamas has vowed to repeat October 7 until Israel is annihilated. No nation could possibly live with such danger, which is why we support Israel’s legitimate military objectives to eliminate the threat of Hamas. "

You can seriously look at that and wonder who she wants to win?
 
Merge said:
Right and she has said she wants Hamas defeated many times. You just want her to say something other than what she has already said. I'm just not sure what that is.

"Let me be also very clear, as I’ve said before: We cannot conflate Hamas with the Palestinian people. Hamas is a brutal terrorist organization. Hamas has vowed to repeat October 7 until Israel is annihilated. No nation could possibly live with such danger, which is why we support Israel’s legitimate military objectives to eliminate the threat of Hamas. "

You can seriously look at that and wonder who she wants to win?
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You got one phrase from 9 months ago. Can we take all of her positions from 9 months ago. She'll lose in a heartbeat if we go on everything she said 9 months ago.
 
SHUHoopsFan said:
You got one phrase from 9 months ago. Can we take all of her positions from 9 months ago. She'll lose in a heartbeat if we go on everything she said 9 months ago.
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She's been consistent since then on this issue.
How about 11 days ago?

"Hamas is an evil terrorist organization. With these murders, Hamas has even more American blood on its hands. I strongly condemn Hamas’ continued brutality, and so must the entire world. From its massacre of 1,200 people to sexual violence, taking of hostages, and these murders, Hamas’ depravity is evident and horrifying. The threat Hamas poses to the people of Israel—and American citizens in Israel—must be eliminated and Hamas cannot control Gaza."

Maybe it's more that she has also been critical of Israel and if they are doing enough to protect the innocent civilians in their bombings that bothers you?
 
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Merge said:
She's been consistent since then on this issue.
How about 11 days ago?

"Hamas is an evil terrorist organization. With these murders, Hamas has even more American blood on its hands. I strongly condemn Hamas’ continued brutality, and so must the entire world. From its massacre of 1,200 people to sexual violence, taking of hostages, and these murders, Hamas’ depravity is evident and horrifying. The threat Hamas poses to the people of Israel—and American citizens in Israel—must be eliminated and Hamas cannot control Gaza."

Maybe it's more that she has also been critical of Israel and if they are doing enough to protect the innocent civilians in their bombings that bothers you?
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There's so much out there where you feel one day she leans this direction on the issue, the next day you read something and she believes something else and she gets out once a month to talk to people, you really don't know where the hell she stands. So yes I was hoping for something real definitive other than the basics of a 2 state solution that has been talked about since Clinton was in office.
 
Section112 said:
She won the debate by not answering any questions and baiting him. He took the bait far too often. It could move the needle for folks who don't follow the issues.

IMO Trump is going to lose the election based on all the dumb stuff he continues to say and just keeps giving the left leaning media more ammo. He's so stupid when it comes to what he says. This election should be an easy win if he just focused on the 1) economy/inflation and 2) the horrible border situation and tried to pin her down on those two issues. But he can't help himself. He has no one else to blame but himself.

I am afraid of how far left Kamala is. She will say all the right things to win but then go hard left once she is in office. My hope is that the Senate is split or leans Republican to slow her down.

The big picture for the Republican party is they need to get rid of Trump in order to move forward IMO. He's taking the whole party down a ridiculous rabbit hole and the party will continue to lose elections under his power. The result if she wins and controls the Senate will be the country will move hard to a liberal globalist strategy which is not good for anyone.
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trump cant focus on the border issue/ he goes complete lunatic if he does. he can't help himself. they're eating peoples pets! i would REALLY like a republican rehaul. my god its in such a bad place.
 
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SHUSA said:
sounds like people are getting upset that kamala isn't coming across as advertised. and that trump is.
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She didn't answer 1 question. She didn't have a word salad. My opinion she was mediocre at best. Her opponent was better on the economy and then horrible. He couldn't even keep on message with his closing argument which started out why haven't you done anything in 3.5 years which was good, then he went off the rails. It's not like she was excellent and he was terrible. She didn't answer a question, but she didn't have to in order to be better than him. She won the debate, election is far from over.
 
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Turned the debate off after 15 minutes and watched the Liberty v Wings WNBA game. I actually wasn't going to watch the first debate, but my wife was watching on her laptop (we had a power failure) and I could hear Biden disintegrating and asked her if looked as bad as it sounded....).

At least the first 15 minutes went as I thought which is why I dropped. Trump is Trump and this is like a repeat of every other debate going off on rants. Harris did a good job memorizing a bunch of stuff...no word salad, but neither inspires any confidence.

If leadership is your priority, neither one gets my vote. As for our national security, I don't think either gives me any sense of confidence and it should be a grave concern. I was at a meeting in Europe several weeks ago and one of the guest speakers was Chris Miller (Chip War). Interesting he said the greatest threat to the U.S. isn't South American countries that are pumping illegals; not Russia; and not Iran....It is China as they could shut down chip exports from Taiwan (TSMC) with a blockade. 95% of the advanced chips come from Taiwan and it would grind our economy to a halt. Not firing a single shot or detonating a bomb. Another speaker was General Michael Claesseon who is the Chief Deputy of Defense in Sweden (their Lloyd Austin). In his presentation he shared a comparison of the Chinese and U.S. navy over the past 50 years which should also be of concern.

I couldn't care less about who won that debate. We are in trouble either way.
 

This might be the reason she needs the second debate. 6 of 10 undecided voters going Trump's way after last night. Did people feel he was being treated unfair being fact checked and nothing Harris said was fact checked? His numbers increase every time the system seems to be against him. Did people walk out still clueless as to what she believes? Do people still think they were better 4-8 years ago than they do now?
 
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SHUHoopsFan said:
She didn't answer 1 question. She didn't have a word salad. My opinion she was mediocre at best. Her opponent was better on the economy and then horrible. He couldn't even keep on message with his closing argument which started out why haven't you done anything in 3.5 years which was good, then he went off the rails. It's not like she was excellent and he was terrible. She didn't answer a question, but she didn't have to in order to be better than him. She won the debate, election is far from over.
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mediocre is a lot better than embarassing live speaker which what was advertised. sooo many posts ragging how she had no live speaking engagements for a reason. so many. thats put to bed for now.

the biggest knock is that she was able to outsmart the other candidate.

i was actually excited trump was calm and starting off great about the economy. then 3 minutes in he looked up at the ceiling and the script was thrown out
 
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SHUSA said:
mediocre is a lot better than embarassing live speaker which what was advertised. sooo many posts ragging how she had no live speaking engagements for a reason. so many. thats put to bed for now.

the biggest knock is that she was able to outsmart the other candidate.
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Everything she said was cliche and rehearsed lines. Go take questions every day and you're going to get a lot of unknown questions. The economy, border, abortion were known topics. Which topics caught you by surprise. Trump was not prepared at all, but nothing he did last night was something an undecided voter didn't know about him. There was nothing the democratic candidate offered that said this is why you vote for me as opposed to against him. I don't think that strategy wins in 2024 like it did in 2020 because she's in office now and doing nothing about the issues.
 
SHUHoopsFan said:

This might be the reason she needs the second debate. 6 of 10 undecided voters going Trump's way after last night. Did people feel he was being treated unfair being fact checked and nothing Harris said was fact checked? His numbers increase every time the system seems to be against him. Did people walk out still clueless as to what she believes? Do people still think they were better 4-8 years ago than they do now?
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i thought he was treated very fair. if not favored at times with how much they let him get in. think they wanted to avoid the whole "it was rigged" rhetoric.

they fact check trump because he lies more and says absurd things. its not that hard
 
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SHUSA said:
i thought he was treated very fair. if not favored at times with how much they let him get in. think they wanted to avoid the whole "it was rigged" rhetoric.

they fact check trump because he lies more and says absurd things. its not that hard
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he lies more. correct. fact check shouldn't be 5-0. Are you telling me nothing Kamala said was worthy of fact check? Sorry when you don't go after her misleading claims once, it's not a good look.
 
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A consistent criticism of Harris was her inability to speak extemporaneously. She acquitted herself reasonably well in the debate. it shows a capacity to improve which bodes well for her, and us, should she win
 
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SHUHoopsFan said:
he lies more. correct. fact check shouldn't be 5-0. Are you telling me nothing Kamala said was worthy of fact check? Sorry when you don't go after her misleading claims once, it's not a good look.
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Post birth abortions, immigrants eating pets, crime being through the roof as it’s coming down were pretty ridiculous lies but you’re right that they skipped opportunities to correct Harris that they should have taken.
 
Let's examine Harris' whopping lie on trade deficits. Here they are for the years ended 12/31/2013 through 12/31/2023 (in billions):

Obama
2013 = -478.453
2014 = -508.9
2015 = -524.32
2016 = -503.272

Trump
2017 = -543.329
2018 = -593.077
2019 = -578.504
2020 = -626.391

Biden
2021 = -858.239
2022 = -979.119
2023 = -1062.111

This should get much more play.

U.S. Trade Balance 1960-2024

External balance on goods and services (formerly resource balance) equals exports of goods and services minus imports of goods and services (previously nonfactor services). Data are in current U.S. dollars.
www.macrotrends.net www.macrotrends.net

International Trade in Goods and Services | U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA)

www.bea.gov www.bea.gov
 
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knowknow456 said:
A consistent criticism of Harris was her inability to speak extemporaneously. She acquitted herself reasonably well in the debate. it shows a capacity to improve which bodes well for her, and us, should she win
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Not really sure that’s true. She had rehearsed statements on topics and didn’t answer the question. Not sure how her unexplained opportunistic economy and the fact she grew up middle class answers the question are people better off now. It was just a rehearsed phrase.
 
Merge said:
Post birth abortions, immigrants eating pets, crime being through the roof as it’s coming down were pretty ridiculous lies but you’re right that they skipped opportunities to correct Harris that they should have taken.
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Didn’t the FBI say crimes in places like NYC and LA aren’t in the numbers?
 
SHUHoopsFan said:
Not really sure that’s true. She had rehearsed statements on topics and didn’t answer the question. Not sure how her unexplained opportunistic economy and the fact she grew up middle class answers the question are people better off now. It was just a rehearsed phrase.
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Debates are structured events for the most part so memorization and rehearsal are inherent in the event. She did well in the debate.

I'm sure she is working on how to successfully answer questions in an unstructured atmosphere.
 
listen she's not going to be the best president if she wins. potentially a pretty bad one. but people here are allergic to giving any kind of credit.

1) As the debate went on people here said the moderators were setting it up for kamala. In reality it was catering much more towards trump.

2) guys like hall85/shuhoops simply can't come to terms that she had such a decisive victory in a debate. flabbergasted. have to discredit the "memorized speech" instead of calling it how it is. you know who memorized his speech? trump and his vocabulary of 3 words that he yells over and over and over
mesmerized

this might just be kamala derangement syndrome.
 
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knowknow456 said:
A consistent criticism of Harris was her inability to speak extemporaneously. She acquitted herself reasonably well in the debate. it shows a capacity to improve which bodes well for her, and us, should she win
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all of a sudden this point that was hammered to death has evaporated into "she memorized the entire hour long debate" . deflect on to the next talkikg point. we got guys turning off the debate after 15 mins because they simply cant come to terms with it.
 
SHUHoopsFan said:
Didn’t the FBI say crimes in places like NYC and LA aren’t in the numbers?
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Yes. The reporting is changed and not all cities responded so they are not included in the FBI report, though they do still report it. Just need to look it up elsewhere if your curious about city by city... That said many cities were included are have been showing decreases. There will be some increases as well but overall crime is on a downward trend since 2020. Weather than decrease ends up at 15% or 5% once the data is no longer preliminary, it is still going to show a decrease. Not rising through the roof.
 
SHUHoopsFan said:

This might be the reason she needs the second debate. 6 of 10 undecided voters going Trump's way after last night. Did people feel he was being treated unfair being fact checked and nothing Harris said was fact checked? His numbers increase every time the system seems to be against him. Did people walk out still clueless as to what she believes? Do people still think they were better 4-8 years ago than they do now?
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To be clear, this was 10 people total. I thought maybe that "6 of 10" was a fraction of the total number of undecided voters they surveyed, but no. I don't necessarily think the Harris campaign is losing sleep or desperately seeking another debate over a sample size of 10 undecided voters (three of whom sided with Harris, and one still undecided) compared to the rest of the post-debate reaction.

SHUHoopsFan said:
Going back to Charlottesville that Jake Tapper has debunked about 10 times for about 7 years isn’t outrageous? Ok
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The moderator excuse is the equivalent to getting on a game thread and blaming the refs.

Sure, they could’ve thrown a few more fact checks Harris’s way if they were inclined to. But that doesn’t excuse Trump’s total lack of preparation. The slightest bit of discipline and he could’ve fact checked her himself or called out her non answers to various questions. Instead his meltdown made her mediocre performance look like JFK vs. Nixon.

If he loses this election he will have no one to blame but himself. Totally fumbled this.
 
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