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shu09 said:
Joe is delusional, out of touch, or both. No vision for a second term, just talking points and overstating what he's done in 3.5 years.

Sounds like the Dems aren't stupid though and will rally to get him out of the race soon. House Dems meeting Sunday and another one came out tonight calling for Joe to drop out. The governor's meeting wasn't exactly a vote of confidence either. Only three went out to talk to the media (none named Newsom, Whitmer, or Pritzker), which was telling.
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https://www.axios.com/2024/07/06/biden-abc-interview-house-democrats-reaction

Toast.

His decline has been obvious and so many examples to point to over the last year. The running line continues to be that he’s the only Dem that can beat Trump. What does that say about the Dem bench when you have the most polarizing candidate in Trump on the other side?
 
As Julian Epstein former dem committee lawyer recently said Newsome is a lightweight with a horrible record.He can’t get it anyway race card would insure Trump election same reason Shapiro ( their best candidate) can’t be nominee.
 
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I’ve said it plenty of times, Newsom is dollar store charismatic. Anyone who’s not a solid Dem will see right through him.

IMO Dems best chance to win would be with Warnock. Articulate, Black, and Senator from a crucial swing state. Even he would have an uphill battle though - the election is Trump’s to lose at this point.
 
SOpirate said:
I’ve said it plenty of times, Newsom is dollar store charismatic. Anyone who’s not a solid Dem will see right through him.

IMO Dems best chance to win would be with Warnock. Articulate, Black, and Senator from a crucial swing state. Even he would have an uphill battle though - the election is Trump’s to lose at this point.
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I don’t see Warnock as an option. Unlikely they would put forth a Senator and he has only been one for a few years. No National profile and it doesn’t matter who the Democratic candidate is, as they will get 98% of the black vote.
 
HALL85 said:
I don’t see Warnock as an option. Unlikely they would put forth a Senator and he has only been one for a few years. No National profile and it doesn’t matter who the Democratic candidate is, as they will get 98% of the black vote.
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Dems will not get 98% of the black vote lol. And the national percentage is irrelevant to the outcome of the election anyway. What Dems (should) be most concerned about is juicing black turnout in swing state cities. There was record levels of black turnout in Philadelphia, Detroit, Milwaukee, and Atlanta, each of which helped swing those states from Trump in 2016 to Biden in 2020 by incredibly close margins.

I don’t see Newsom, Harris, Shapiro, or any of the other names that have been floated being able to replicate that level of inner city turnout. And as a result, none of them will be able to beat Trump. Warnock would be a long shot too, but he’s their best bet IMO.
 
with the way news travels these days, idk if i buy the "no name recognition" argument. especially when a to. of the country would vote for "literally anyone else"

if a guy like shapiro is picked he'd wipe the floor with trump in a live debate as an ex-attorney general
 
SHUSA said:
with the way news travels these days, idk if i buy the "no name recognition" argument. especially when a to. of the country would vote for "literally anyone else"

if a guy like shapiro is picked he'd wipe the floor with trump in a live debate as an ex-attorney general
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Then why are Dems so panicked about nominating anyone but Biden? If another candidate could “wipe the floor”, they would be there.
 
SOpirate said:
Dems will not get 98% of the black vote lol. And the national percentage is irrelevant to the outcome of the election anyway. What Dems (should) be most concerned about is juicing black turnout in swing state cities. There was record levels of black turnout in Philadelphia, Detroit, Milwaukee, and Atlanta, each of which helped swing those states from Trump in 2016 to Biden in 2020 by incredibly close margins.

I don’t see Newsom, Harris, Shapiro, or any of the other names that have been floated being able to replicate that level of inner city turnout. And as a result, none of them will be able to beat Trump. Warnock would be a long shot too, but he’s their best bet IMO.
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No way they are going to skip over VP Harris, she can read off a teleprompter and checks off more boxes. Not to mention she polls better than Biden vs. Trump. Most Dems would line up to vote for her. Skipping over Harris would be a big mistake. She’s also very good on a debate stage. Remember most people are not paying attention to anything she’s said or done for the last 3 1/2 years. She would most likely win in November.
 
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SHallguy2 said:
No way they are going to skip over VP Harris, she can read off a teleprompter and checks off more boxes. Not to mention she polls better than Biden vs. Trump. Most Dems would line up to vote for her. Skipping over Harris would be a big mistake. She’s also very good on a debate stage. Remember most people are not paying attention to anything she’s said or done for the last 3 1/2 years. She would most likely win in November.
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I agree that she seems formidable on paper until you remember that she failed to crack 1% in her own hapless presidential campaign (her biggest accomplishment was calling Joe racist on the debate stage)

like you said she checks a lot of boxes which makes her the perfect VP on a ticket, but she was never cut out for the big job.
 
To skip over a black female for a male of any color, especially a woman who is second in command will not happen, goes against everything Democrats stand for. She has a way with words and can talk in circles that alone will resonate with the Democratic base. There will be voters who feel she is not cut out for the job who will vote for her anyway. More than 70% of the population have no idea and will vote based on what they hear on the news. The bar for being President has been set very low. The last debate should tell us everything, if people had any common sense or cared 2 other candidates would have been at the last debate. We are Living in strange times.
 
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HALL85 said:
Then why are Dems so panicked about nominating anyone but Biden? If another candidate could “wipe the floor”, they would be there.
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idk what they are doing tbh. i dont even know how much reality there is in biden stepping down. they could very well still win with him.
 
If Biden manages to survives another week without any prominent dems going public against him, he’ll be the nominee. Trump would still be clearly favored at this point, but I think many (myself included) have underestimated Biden’s ability to bounce back. There’s over 100 days until the election. Trump is also prone to self inflicted wounds so there’s always the potential he blows up his own lead.
 
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SOpirate said:
If Biden manages to survives another week without any prominent dems going public against him, he’ll be the nominee. Trump would still be clearly favored at this point, but I think many (myself included) have underestimated Biden’s ability to bounce back. There’s over 100 days until the election. Trump is also prone to self inflicted wounds so there’s always the potential he blows up his own lead.
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The next couple of days are critical. Conference call today with Congress. Congress back tomorrow. Polls is going in the wrong direction. The Biden team is unwilling to put him in position where he can dispel the health concerns.

I don’t think he survives the week.
 
I think he survives at this point because it’s a Catch-22 for the party.

If your slogan is democracy on the line, how can you (a) create the perception you pushed him out, since he was the one elected in the primary and last time and (b) reconcile pushing him out now with the absolute vitriol and backlash shown to anyone who questioned this guys mental acuity over the past several years. If D is on the line, how can the nominee be selected by big donors at a convention? It’s so contradictory.

There is no way the debate was some isolated incident. But if you’ve been pummeling anyone and everyone who raises this issue repeatedly over the last 3+ years, you can’t use those 90 minutes as grounds to replace him because you will look like both a fraud and anti-democratic.

As far as Kamala, she checks boxes on paper but her reputation is as an awful VP, a self promoter who climbed through the ranks because of things other than merit, and has been a mess half the time in public debate settings or speaking engagements. She’s almost as bad a word salad as Biden. But I agree they run into trouble if they try to skip over her.
 
HALL85 said:
The next couple of days are critical. Conference call today with Congress. Congress back tomorrow. Polls is going in the wrong direction. The Biden team is unwilling to put him in position where he can dispel the health concerns.

I don’t think he survives the week.
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Politics

Power
Prestige
Ego
 
SOpirate said:
If Biden manages to survives another week without any prominent dems going public against him, he’ll be the nominee. Trump would still be clearly favored at this point, but I think many (myself included) have underestimated Biden’s ability to bounce back. There’s over 100 days until the election. Trump is also prone to self inflicted wounds so there’s always the potential he blows up his own lead.
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Ultimately, he needs to make the decision. It’s remarkable (and sad) that he and his inner circle put him in this position. And then Harris needs to make her decision if he says he’s not going to run. I don’t think it’s a given that she will automatically want it.

Dem voters will stick with and vote for Biden even if he’s on life support. Republicans are already sticking with Trump despite the convictions.

What are independents going to do? In the swing states especially.
 
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More Congressional members calling for him to step down from race….including Nads.
 
Any member of Congress or media type who is asking him to step down based on the debate needs to answer for their silence over the past however-many years and should be cross-examined with any publicly available clips of them defending his mental acuity and the like.

If anyone wants high comedy, go YouTube the Morning Joe mashup of the principal anchor’s comments literally like a few weeks ago compared to what he said the morning after the debate. These people have no shame.
 
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dehere23 said:
Any member of Congress or media type who is asking him to step down based on the debate needs to answer for their silence over the past however-many years and should be cross-examined with any publicly available clips of them defending his mental acuity and the like.

If anyone wants high comedy, go YouTube the Morning Joe mashup of the principal anchor’s comments literally like a few weeks ago compared to what he said the morning after the debate. These people have no shame.
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Morning Joe is the Tucker Carlson of the left. Probably even more shamelessly biased. Joy Reid as well - these people are a big part of why our public discourse is in shambles.
 
Robot_Man said:
It probably has to be Harris, for this reason.
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This. 100%. Also, the ramifications of putting somebody on the top of the ticket who did not compete in the primaries this year is understated. If Kamala is on the top of the ticket, you can at least argue that voters in the primary were sophisticated enough and understood that by voting for the Biden/Harris ticket, there was a decent chance that Harris would have to step in at some point if they won re-election.
 
MooneyHall07 said:
This. 100%. Also, the ramifications of putting somebody on the top of the ticket who did not compete in the primaries this year is understated. If Kamala is on the top of the ticket, you can at least argue that voters in the primary were sophisticated enough and understood that by voting for the Biden/Harris ticket, there was a decent chance that Harris would have to step in at some point if they won re-election.
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They will get flack, but not as much for the reason you state, I agree. Still hard to have the “democracy is on the line” slogan and have a nominee who wasn’t subject to an open primary and chosen by the donor class instead of actual voters.

The bigger question with Harris, besides all her substantive and political flaws, is how she answers the main question on complicity in the cover up.
 
dehere23 said:
They will get flack, but not as much for the reason you state, I agree. Still hard to have the “democracy is on the line” slogan and have a nominee who wasn’t subject to an open primary and chosen by the donor class instead of actual voters.

The bigger question with Harris, besides all her substantive and political flaws, is how she answers the main question on complicity in the cover up.
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Absolutely agree. It's also hard to argue that the other guy is unfit for office when you put forward an 82 year-old who is cognitively declining in office. I guess it's a case of "choose your hard."

Harris is completely flawed, but in 2020 she ran with Biden who at the time was well past the age of life expectancy of males in the United States. They still won the election. Yes, it will be different with her at the top of the ticket, but that leads in to the bigger question you posed. I think the answer to that question is that once Biden is gone she will get a pass from the media, who will focus more on her positive attributes and her history-making candidacy and laser-focus on Trump's heavy negative attributes.
 
MooneyHall07 said:
Absolutely agree. It's also hard to argue that the other guy is unfit for office when you put forward an 82 year-old who is cognitively declining in office. I guess it's a case of "choose your hard."

Harris is completely flawed, but in 2020 she ran with Biden who at the time was well past the age of life expectancy of males in the United States. They still won the election. Yes, it will be different with her at the top of the ticket, but that leads in to the bigger question you posed. I think the answer to that question is that once Biden is gone she will get a pass from the media, who will focus more on her positive attributes and her history-making candidacy and laser-focus on Trump's heavy negative attributes.
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Agreed. She and everyone else complicit will be come up with some BS "nuance" argument that's insulting to our collective intelligence, and the mainstream media will give them a gigantic pass.

I would much prefer if they just came out and said, look, we were wrong, it was wrong, everyone we went after for questioning this guys mental acuity gets a gigantic apology, we are all frauds who just want to keep power, but you should still vote for us because we aren't Trump. At least that's intellectually honest.
 
all nonsense. where is the objective line drawn for "unfit"?

the country did not blow up, dare i say it some positive things have even happened. id say his 4 years easily come off as "fit"

cognitive declines can happen fast. they can just chalk it up to a fast decline .
 
SHUSA said:
all nonsense. where is the objective line drawn for "unfit"?

the country did not blow up, dare i say it some positive things have even happened. id say his 4 years easily come off as "fit"

cognitive declines can happen fast. they can just chalk it up to a fast decline .
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There have been numerous stories written by the WSJ, New Yorker, etc. in the last few days that provide sources, stories and events that are very concerning and were ignored. His decline has been visible over the past year.
 
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SHUSA said:
all nonsense. where is the objective line drawn for "unfit"?

the country did not blow up, dare i say it some positive things have even happened. id say his 4 years easily come off as "fit"

cognitive declines can happen fast. they can just chalk it up to a fast decline .
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And there it is. Please. I will never vote for Trump, so you don't need to convince me, but it is an insult to everyone's intelligence to imply this "decline" just started within the past few weeks because "cognitive declines can happen fast". And if it so bad, who is running the country and making the most important decisions that impact everyone's life. If he can't be the nominee anymore, he can't run the country as I type this post. Not months down the line. Now.
 
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dehere23 said:
And there it is. Please. I will never vote for Trump, so you don't need to convince me, but it is an insult to everyone's intelligence to imply this "decline" just started within the past few weeks because "cognitive declines can happen fast". And if it so bad, who is running the country and making the most important decisions that impact everyone's life. If he can't be the nominee anymore, he can't run the country as I type this post. Not months down the line. Now.
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not sure what you dont understand. perhaps you see what first hand decline looks like.

put it this way. trumps current mental acuity is similar or worse than bidens 4 years ago when he was voted in. and half the country will vote for him. just as fit as biden was 4 years ago. yet you dont hear anything about that do you? and republicans actually had some viable candidates in the primary. and they would have won.

also, all the maga idiots are also huge reagan fans. guy was literally weekend at bernie's running the country. oops i guess we all forgot about that too! mental decline all around!
 
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HALL85 said:
There have been numerous stories written by the WSJ, New Yorker, etc. in the last few days that provide sources, stories and events that are very concerning and were ignored. His decline has been visible over the past year.
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and this sort of condition doesn't get worse over the course of a year? i think it went from "let's let it play out and hope for the best" to "yep definitely is not the best"
 
SHUSA said:
not sure what you dont understand. perhaps you see what first hand decline looks like.

put it this way. trumps current mental acuity is similar or worse than bidens 4 years ago when he was voted in. and half the country will vote for him. just as fit as biden was 4 years ago. yet you dont hear anything about that do you? and republicans actually had some viable candidates in the primary. and they would have won.

also, all the maga idiots are also huge reagan fans. guy was literally weekend at bernie's running the country. oops i guess we all forgot about that too! mental decline all around!
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Now you are deflecting. Trump had to go through a primary where every voter could assess him and his current mental state. Like it or not, the voters chose him as the nominee.

The party that is “saving democracy” cannot pull Biden based on a 90 minute debate and annoint some successor chosen by “delegates” at a convention (ie, big donors) without explaining the timeline here. The output of that debate performance doesn’t happen overnight. You don’t go from being the best person for the job - which everyone was unified behind the day before the debate - to being unfit to serve based on 90 minutes, especially for a guy who has been a constant gaffe machine his entire life. If you don’t see the issue there, we can be done with this discussion because it tells me all I need to know.
 
SHUSA said:
put it this way. trumps current mental acuity is similar or worse than bidens 4 years ago when he was voted in.
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I don't agree with that, Biden was pretty well gone back then too. Trump is too old though as well, I wish he'd nominate what I would consider a good VP candidate but I don't think that is going to happen. If he did, I'd vote for him, hope he wins, and that his VP takes over soon due to mental acuity or legal troubles.

SHUSA said:
also, all the maga idiots are also huge reagan fans. guy was literally weekend at bernie's running the country. oops i guess we all forgot about that too! mental decline all around!
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Reagan's decline came much after he was president.
 
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SPK145 said:
I don't agree with that, Biden was pretty well gone back then too. Trump is too old though as well, I wish he'd nominate what I would consider a good VP candidate but I don't think that is going to happen. If he did, I'd vote for him, hope he wins, and that his VP takes over soon due to mental acuity or legal troubles.


Reagan's decline came much after he was president.
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trumps campaigning videos are definitely bad. lots of gibberish nonsense and made up sentences.

republicans actually have candidates i would vote for over biden. they just didn't nominate any of them.
 
The common denominator here is money in politics.

If either part had put up a semi-viable candidate under the age of 70, they would’ve coasted to the White House. Yet they both had no choice but to double down on their octogenarian candidates because a handful of billionaire donors decided that’s what they wanted.

Say what you want about RFK Jr. but at least he’s largely outside of the control of the donor class.
 
SHUSA said:
trumps campaigning videos are definitely bad. lots of gibberish nonsense and made up sentences.

republicans actually have candidates i would vote for over biden. they just didn't nominate any of them.
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So why don't you vote for RFK, Jr? Do you think Biden is better than him?
 
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