What da ya think?

[Halldan1]

Maybe I'm bias but here's how I would rank the Big East coaches currently

1. Hurley
Three peat?

2. Pitino
Not likable but still a blue blood

3. McDermott
Quietly just keeps on keeping on

4. Smart
Found a home

5. Holloway
With more money he would be battling Hurley at the top

6. Miller
Look out this season

7. Cooley
Shine off the rose?

8. English
Moving on up

9. Matta
On past performance

10. Holzman
Ditto

11. Neptune
Hot seat?

 

[dehere23]

Love Sha. Don’t like Sean Miller. Do not fathom how objectively how one could list Sha ahead of Miller at this stage.

Agree with your first two. Honestly I don’t know how anyone could not have these as the top 2. They objectively have resumes that no one else, including McDermott or Smart, comes close to touching.

I am not a big Cooley guy anymore, but I think if he was our coach and Sha was Gtown’s, most would have a major, major problem ranking Sha ahead.

To me, Sha is firmly with English as a coin flip. I think English did every bit as good of a job last year as Sha when you consider what they lost and where they were projected.

IMO the easiest choices on this list are the first tier/top 2 and Neptune last. I don’t see how anyone but Neptune could be at the bottom.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

I'm not really sure how one judges coaches anymore these days. Without continuity, talent tends to win out. Coaches literally have 10 months with a player then he searches for a new school for 2 months, then some other coach has him for 10 months and the process repeats itself. Sha showed what he can do with guys in his system multiple years. Make no mistake about it the Dawes who was solid in the NIT was a completely different Dawes vs Depaul in the BET the prior year. Same goes for Kadary and Davis. It took 20 months with Sha for things to click.

I've always loved watching the development of players like Whitehead, Carrington, Auda, Copeland, Laing, Rimas, A. Griffin, Greene, Ramos, etc. That's where you said that coach made that player and that team better. Now it's how much talent can you acquire in those 2 months with NILs, put something together in 10 months, and hope it works out because you start from scratch after the last game as opposed to developing, creating a system and creating a culture.

 

[Seton75]

Pitino is one of the greats but is he still one of the greats? I have a show me attitude this year.

 

[dehere23]

Pitino is one of the greats but is he still one of the greats? I have a show me attitude this year.

His record last year in year 1 was actually better than how he’s done historically at other rebuilds. They were picked 5th and finished 5th. If he underperformed at all, it was modest because they were a projected bubble/borderline and finished that way, and anyone who actually follows college basketball saw how they ended was as a NCAA worthy team that probably would have done some damage. When you account for the roster turnover in year 1 plus the injuries they had, and that he won at Iona like usual immediately before, I don’t see anything factually that leads me to conclude the all time great still isn’t great.

 

[NittanyPirate]

His record last year in year 1 was actually better than how he’s done historically at other rebuilds. They were picked 5th and finished 5th. If he underperformed at all, it was modest because they were a projected bubble/borderline and finished that way, and anyone who actually follows college basketball saw how they ended was as a NCAA worthy team that probably would have done some damage. When you account for the roster turnover in year 1 plus the injuries they had, and that he won at Iona like usual immediately before, I don’t see anything factually that leads me to conclude the all time great still isn’t great.

Comparing a rebuilding job in 2023 to a rebuilding job 25 years ago is ridiculous IMO.

I am with Seton75 on Pitino: one of the all time greats, but I have my doubts that he still fits the mold. We will see.

 

[SHUSource]

Love Sha. Don’t like Sean Miller. Do not fathom how objectively how one could list Sha ahead of Miller at this stage.

Agree with your first two. Honestly I don’t know how anyone could not have these as the top 2. They objectively have resumes that no one else, including McDermott or Smart, comes close to touching.

I am not a big Cooley guy anymore, but I think if he was our coach and Sha was Gtown’s, most would have a major, major problem ranking Sha ahead.

To me, Sha is firmly with English as a coin flip. I think English did every bit as good of a job last year as Sha when you consider what they lost and where they were projected.

IMO the easiest choices on this list are the first tier/top 2 and Neptune last. I don’t see how anyone but Neptune could be at the bottom.

I guess it depends on whether you consider cumulative history, or snapshot in time today, or today plus recent past. Taking it all in total, it's hard to top Quick Rick on this list, but there isn't anyone better than Hurley right now.

English looks like a fine coach, but he's not been to an Elite Eight yet, which Holloway had done recently (and at a program where it is virtually impossible). You could also say English contends with Neptune at the bottom of the list (which is more of a testament to the coaching depth in this conference than a harsh judgment on either guy), given that while he seems to be a comer, he's really accomplished very little as a head coach. I'd slot Neptune behind him, but mostly because he's accomplished very little for a season longer than English.

 

[Seton75]

His record last year in year 1 was actually better than how he’s done historically at other rebuilds. They were picked 5th and finished 5th. If he underperformed at all, it was modest because they were a projected bubble/borderline and finished that way, and anyone who actually follows college basketball saw how they ended was as a NCAA worthy team that probably would have done some damage. When you account for the roster turnover in year 1 plus the injuries they had, and that he won at Iona like usual immediately before, I don’t see anything factually that leads me to conclude the all time great still isn’t great.

Yup, and I still have a show me attitude. He is an old guy, he is an arrogant guy and he is not the given to me that he once was. If he kills it it wont shock me and if he doesn't that wont either.

 

[Seton75]

I guess it depends on whether you consider cumulative history, or snapshot in time today, or today plus recent past. Taking it all in total, it's hard to top Quick Rick on this list, but there isn't anyone better than Hurley right now.

English looks like a fine coach, but he's not been to an Elite Eight yet, which Holloway had done recently (and at a program where it is virtually impossible). You could also say English contends with Neptune at the bottom of the list (which is more of a testament to the coaching depth in this conference than a harsh judgment on either guy), given that while he seems to be a comer, he's really accomplished very little as a head coach. I'd slot Neptune behind him, but mostly because he's accomplished very little for a season longer than English.

Many SHU fans just love those PC coaches. I had to check some posts from years gone by to see if they were talking cooley or wooden lol

 

[SPK145]

This is really difficult to do but how is a guy who made the NCAA's 7 out of 13 years ranked 10th????

 

[mspaeth]

Pitino ahead of Hurley.......The jerk knows basketball

 

[Seton75]

Today, Hurley is the dominant coach in men's college hoops. Is that even debatable?
My list on the rest is based o n today, not career
McD - been doing it for a long time at CU and no sign of slowing down
Shaka - Does he have it or did the guys he lost give it to him? I think he has it
Pitino - An ATG -seeing him in a presser after Sha kicks his ass again would be a season highlight lol
Miller - like him or not a great coach
Sha - how can the Great Shaeen be only sixth?
English - looks like a comer
Cooley - does he still have/want it?
Holtman - an ahole but like SPK said, he cant be 10, so I say 9
Neptune - who knows
Matta - like this guy but does he still have it

I strongly doubt I will see this list the same next summer

 

[cams555]

Maybe I'm bias but here's how I would rank the Big East coaches currently

1. Hurley
Three peat?

2. Pitino
Not likable but still a blue blood

3. McDermott
Quietly just keeps on keeping on

4. Smart
Found a home

5. Holloway
With more money he would be battling Hurley at the top

6. Miller
Look out this season

7. Cooley
Shine off the rose?

8. English
Moving on up

9. Matta
On past performance

10. Holzman
Ditto

11. Neptune
Hot seat?

You have done this before and I have disagreed but I think you nailed it this time.

 

[Halldan1]

This is really difficult to do but how is a guy who made the NCAA's 7 out of 13 years ranked 10th????

The issue I had doing this was current vs past history.

In his day there is no doubt that Holtmann was special. But his last 2 seasons at Ohio State were very poor (30-30) and got him fired. And that 30-30 was even worse in league play -- 12 under .500 in total although he was fired before the end of the team's 9-11 season.

 

[dehere23]

Comparing a rebuilding job in 2023 to a rebuilding job 25 years ago is ridiculous IMO.

I am with Seton75 on Pitino: one of the all time greats, but I have my doubts that he still fits the mold. We will see.

Easier to reload quicker now, perhaps, but not easier than say Kentucky even coming off probation or Louisville coming off a down period.

 

[Burnsly]

If Holtmann makes the next 7 out of 10 NCAA's with Depaul he should be considered the greatest Big East coach of all time.

 

[TheHall87]

By career winning percentage:

Miller 465-184 - .716 - Four Elite Eight
Matta 471-187 - .716 - Two Final Fours - One Runner-Up
Pitino 731-303 - .707 - Seven Final Fours - Two Championships - One Runner-Up
Smart 346-172 - .668 - Final Four
Hurley 292-163 - .642 - Two Final Fours - Two Championships
McDermott 605-355 - .630 - Elite Eight
Holtmann 251-171 - .595 - Sweet Sixteen
Cooley 343-245 - .583 - Sweet Sixteen
English 55-43 - .561 - NIT First Round
Holloway 106-81 - .555 - Elite Eight
Neptune 51-49 - .510 - Two NIT First Round

By winning percentage at current school:
Smart 75-30 .714
Hurley 141-58 - .709
McDermott 325-160 - .670
Miller 43-28 - .606 (Current tenure only) Overall at X 163-75 - .685
Pitino 20-13 - .606
Holloway 42-28 - .600
English 21-14 - .600
Matta 56-41 - .577
Neptune 35-33 - .515
Cooley 9-23 - .281
Holtmann 0-0 - .000

 

[dehere23]

Thanks for posting this list.

I forgot that Pitino has been to 7 Final Fours, with 3 different schools. Remarkable. And can you even imagine if he stays longer at Kentucky what that number looks like? Tubby Smith's title was basically Pitino's third.

 

[MBF72]

If Pitino rates highly because of what he had done, Cooley should be 3 or 4.

 

[dehere23]

If Pitino rates highly because of what he had done, Cooley should be 3 or 4.

Apples and bowling balls when comparing their resumes though. Cooley did a good job at Providence, but with Pitino you are talking about someone universally regarded as one of the best all time. I think Cooley will be successful at Gtown, but last year is a stain on his resume because that team was awful and it’s not a reach to say many other coaches in the league would have done better with their roster.

 

[HallGuy23]

Maybe I'm bias but here's how I would rank the Big East coaches currently

1. Hurley
Three peat?

2. Pitino
Not likable but still a blue blood

3. McDermott
Quietly just keeps on keeping on

4. Smart
Found a home

5. Holloway
With more money he would be battling Hurley at the top

6. Miller
Look out this season

7. Cooley
Shine off the rose?

8. English
Moving on up

9. Matta
On past performance

10. Holzman
Ditto

11. Neptune
Hot seat?

If we’re going by coaching performance and history then Cooley needs to move way up.

 

[MBF72]

Good points, Dehere. But let's not forget, with an unlimited checkbook and a roster superior to Georgetown's, Pitino also dropped the ball last year AND [unlike Cooley] deposited his team beneath the proverbial bus.

 

[Halldan1]

If we’re going by coaching performance and history then Cooley needs to move way up.

Criticism is warranted and welcomed. But if you criticize pls do so with your own particular list.

 

[dehere23]

Good points, Dehere. But let's not forget, with an unlimited checkbook and a roster superior to Georgetown's, Pitino also dropped the ball last year AND [unlike Cooley] deposited his team beneath the proverbial bus.

See I disagree Pitino dropped the ball last year. They essentially performed exactly how they were projected. When you account for the injuries and all the new players, they were right where the BE coaches picked them (5th) and right where most of the national media picked up (bubble/borderline NCAA team). Maybe a slight, slight underachieve, but not even so with the injuries.

And no way based on that roster last year did Pitino have an unlimited checkbook. You look at their roster and it wasn't reflective of that. Seems their NIL was in much better shape this year, than last, much like ours is in better shape this year than last.

Cooley did an awful job at Gtown last year and got a pass from many on this board and the media generally. They weren't supposed to be good, but they weren't supposed to be that bad either. Anyone else in the BE East besides Stubblefield and Neptune would have done much, much more with that roster. I bet you Gtown spent more last year on NIL than everyone else in the league besides Uconn, Nova, Marquette, Creighton and maybe Xavier.

 

[HallX2]

Comparing a rebuilding job in 2023 to a rebuilding job 25 years ago is ridiculous IMO.

I am with Seton75 on Pitino: one of the all time greats, but I have my doubts that he still fits the mold. We will see.

Pitino belongs in the wing of the HOF reserved for cheaters.

 

[TheHall87]

If Pitino rates highly because of what he had done, Cooley should be 3 or 4.

Cooley has done nothing relative to most of his peers. Eighth in winning percentage and tied for eighth in deepest NCAA run.

The two guys behind him in the latter category have a combined six years coaching experience.

 

[Seton75]

Pitino belongs in the wing of the HOF reserved for cheaters.

And for once this is true...That's what she said

 

[dehere23]

Pitino belongs in the wing of the HOF reserved for cheaters.

And yet if he was coaching us at any point over the last 3+ decades, no one that's a fan would have cared one iota.

 

[Seton75]

And yet if he was coaching us at any point over the last 3+ decades, no one that's a fan would have cared one iota.

We had our huge donors go to jail for things not related to our program and it bothers and embarrasses me greatly.

 

[dehere23]

We had our huge donors go to jail for things not related to our program and it bothers and embarrasses me greatly.

When we were winning and getting top recruits because of that, it didn’t seem to bother anyone much. And I can point to countless other examples with our program when it comes to this category, including with our current HC. Ultimately they all bended the rules when we had rules. You may be embarrassed now by what those guys did, but absolutely no one would have complained if Pitino was coaching our program over the past 35+ years.

 

[HallX2]

And yet if he was coaching us at any point over the last 3+ decades, no one that's a fan would have cared one iota.

And that proves what? I would say that I believe in what Msgr Sherhan said, athletics doesn’t exist to besmirch the reputation of the university.