Well then it’s Sha!!UConn? They absolutely were. No. 6 in the AP poll and No. 5 in the Coaches poll.
2023-24 Coaches Poll Men's College Basketball Rankings, Preseason - ESPN
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Big East COY
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Not as easy as you say, since Danny only has 66.7% of their losses.
I think it’s Hurley, but remember. If we win and MU/CU loses, we finish tied for 2nd in the league even though we’re the 4-seed. Just like we won the BE but we’re a 3-seed in the canceled tournament.
Just an observation. Would be cool to finish tied for 2nd.
Just an observation. Would be cool to finish tied for 2nd.
Damn, I used the wrong year.UConn? They absolutely were. No. 6 in the AP poll and No. 5 in the Coaches poll.
2023-24 Coaches Poll Men's College Basketball Rankings, Preseason - ESPN
Find the complete NCAAM Preseason rankings on ESPN. Includes the full votes and trend for the top 25 NCAAM teams.
It’s still Danny though.
Sha has certainly done a great job and the team has far exceeded expectations.
On the other hand, it's tough to go against a guy who might go 18-2 and win the conference by four games.
On the other hand, it's tough to go against a guy who might go 18-2 and win the conference by four games.
I never really prescribed to the idea that the coach who has a 1st place ranked team finish 1st should automatically be given the award. Hurley is a great coach, there's no question about that. But who actually coached their ass off this year? People outside of the conference looked at our team and program as a throwaway this year. Our own conference brethren put us at the bottom. In fact, the only teams they put us in front of are proverbial D2 team in Depaul and Butler.
Despite the naysayers, despite the lack of money, despite one of the weaker home court advantages in the conference (sorry, it's true), despite the fact our team was viewed as one of the most devoid of talent and depth, Holloway has literally coached these kids to the upper third of the conference, one of the best BE conference records in decades, and put them on the doorstep of the tournament.
Knowing what he did at St. Peters, seeing what he did this year...you can't tell me another coach in this conference has done what he's done at a level higher than him. He deserves his flowers for this season no matter what happens, but particularly if we're in the NCAA tournament.
Fair, but look who he rolls out onto the court and look who he has on his bench. Then look out our side of the court. Recruiter of the year? Maybe. Check writer of the year? Possibly? Hell of a Coach? Certainly. But he and his team are doing what's expected of them. It's not the most successful coach award, nor is it the most valuable coach award, to me it's the award that personified the term "coach" more than any other this year.
A great coach understands each of their athletes, their strengths and weaknesses, what drives them, and how to get the best out of each athlete or player. Hurley got out of his players what everyone expected he should get out of them. Holloway, on the other hand has literally wrung and squeeze every drop of talent, grit, and determination out of our kids to get them where they are at. I don't believe there's another Coach in this conference that could have done the job he did. So, for me, Holloway wins this award and it's not close. Hurley did nothing wrong, there's no knock on him - but I don't think he had to go the lengths that Sha did this year.
Ok, you convinced me. I was on the fence until I read this post and your next one. Well said. Sha is the Big East COY.
I agree with a lot of what you said. But I think the statement that another coach in the league couldn't have done a similar job is wild given the resumes of the Big East coaches. I think a few things can be true at the same time with how the conference season unfolded. (1) Sha did a helluva job.; (2) We were extremely fortunate on the injury front compared to most of other Big East peers, because that helped our lack of depth not be exposed; and (3) our talent came together in a way that few objective people thought would occur, whether it be Richmond actually taking a leap (I think many thought that was the most likely), Dre taking a huge leap, Dawes being good Dawes more than bad Dawes, and Bediako being way, way better than most thought. I think all 3 things had to align to get us here.
I find COY to be an odd award comparatively because historically you see many of the names you'd expect, and then also some real outliers that happened to win the award when they were picked near the bottom and the stars aligned. Example - I think Mike Anderson won it a few years back, only for his tenure to go downhill horribly not long after.
How are you not attributing point #3 to the coach. Literally all of those things are because of Sha.
So for those who dismiss Danny as COY, are you saying that any coach of a team that is picked in the top 3 and then performs at a top 3 level, even if they miss a star player for a few games, should not be able to win coach of the year, even if they dominate the league, because one of the other 8 or so programs might have one exceed expectations?
UConn has lost 3 games, something 2 other teams in the nation have done. One OOC against a top 10 team, one in a game where he lost one of his best players (we were up 4, 6 if you count the free throws, when he lost Clingan - game was nowhere near a given) and one at a top 10 team where it is difficult to win. He won every other game, some adjusting without that “best” player.
I would love to see Sha share the COY, but have no problem with him coming in second.
UConn has lost 3 games, something 2 other teams in the nation have done. One OOC against a top 10 team, one in a game where he lost one of his best players (we were up 4, 6 if you count the free throws, when he lost Clingan - game was nowhere near a given) and one at a top 10 team where it is difficult to win. He won every other game, some adjusting without that “best” player.
I would love to see Sha share the COY, but have no problem with him coming in second.
Danny and Sha are the only two in the conversation with different arguments. If either wins or share it, so be it.
One other thing about coaching up talent. I did a quick back of the envelope comparing rosters of UConn, Marquette and Creighton. How many of our guys would start on those rosters? The answer is Not Many.
One other thing about coaching up talent. I did a quick back of the envelope comparing rosters of UConn, Marquette and Creighton. How many of our guys would start on those rosters? The answer is Not Many.
I agree, and if Sha wins I’ll be both thrilled and understanding.
It’s a cop out, but co-COY might make sense this year. But that’s tougher to pull off with 11 teams unless one of them is voted 3rd on one ballot.
I'm not dismissing him, I don't understand how these conversations always have to be so "one end of the spectrum" or another. Danny is a heck of coach. What I'm saying is he walked into this season with a pair of aces. Shaheen walked in with a pair of deuces, figuratively (and no, I'm not talking about individual players. I'm talking about hands they are dealt in totality). Both did an incredible job, Shaheen did it with far less at his disposal.
And my statement wasn’t “one end of the spectrum”.
You say Shaheen did it with far less at his disposal, but Sha’s “it” and Danny’s “it” are worlds apart. We’re on the bubble, Danny might go 37-3. If we had just beaten Creighton, I would say Sha in a landslide. Imagine coming in 2nd. Or maybe if we didn’t get destroyed in our away losses.
It’s tough when you’re not starting the year with a level playing field. But I give the edge to the coach who was picked by his peers to finish third but is running away with the league and possible the whole damn thing. It’s outperformance that is the main argument for Sha, but isn’t UConn outperforming the same ranking?
If Creighton and Marquette weren’t top 10 teams and UConn was a unanimous pick for #1, then I’d give less credit for the 18-2 (projected) record. But that Marquette and Creighton have lost 6 and maybe 7 games in the Big East shows that the league, despite DePaul’s and Georgetown’s efforts, is still a gauntlet and UConn will have a probably 4-game gap. I call that outperformance for a team projected 3rd.
Remember, when we shared with Creighton and Villanova, all were 13-5. It’s damn hard to go 18-2 in the Big East, regardless of the starting hand.
UConn literally won the national title last year and is once again a top team. We crapped out last year and were picked 9th in the preseason poll and have a shot to finish tied for 2nd in the conference. There is no question to me who should win… Shaheen Holloway.
Danny lost five key players from the national title team: his top two scorers and three others. He was picked third in the preseason poll because of it, not receiving a single first place vote. He's going to win the league by three games at worst, probably four. That's a HUGE margin. Not to mention this year's UConn team looks better than last year's team. What he has done is remarkable. Easily the winner.
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I think there might be a little something to this, too. People say Danny is not popular among his peers — I have no idea if that’s true or not — but it might be good for “business“ for the Big East to elevate the star power of its coaching lineup by having the reigning national champ and odds-on favorite to repeat still lose out on COY to another deserving coach. In terms of visibility, it only makes the league look better, deeper, and tougher if it becomes that hard to win this thing.
It’s a great debate, for sure. I have no beef whoever comes away with it, and the fact that either way it’s a Seton Hall alum is all the sweeter. Pulling for Sha, who has an outstanding case, but it certainly no crime if Danny takes it.
Wouldn't it be something if Holloway snags Big East COY and Hurley National COY.
I would settle for that.
I would settle for that.
Only because he can't vote for himself.
I would love it if the vote was attached with names. But you know that's not ever going to happen.
I addition to the dislike for DH, we’ve heard many coaches recently speaking pretty highly of what Holloway has done this year.
When you start off a reply with people "dismissing" Danny Hurley, then yes...in my mind you are taking the "other end of the spectrum" because nobody here dismissed him, that I can see. We're having a conversation about the merits of both and terminology like that is simply inaccurate, imo.
I don't disagree with most of what you are saying. But where I disagree with you is comparing Sha's overachievement to Danny's. Seton Hall was predicted to be in the gutter of the conference.
Danny was preseason ranked 6th in the country. Whatever ranking he received in the conference was widely viewed as an under ranking. We can't pretend that being ranked 6th in preseason and being ranked in the Top 3 at the end of the year was some uplifting story and coaching masterclass - the guy basically did what he was expected to do. If you asked any of those ranking analysts, nationally or in the BE, or any BE coaches for that matter....if you asked them what was much more likely to happen, Danny going from 6th to 3rd nationally and going from 3rd to 1st in the BE or Shaheen going from the basement to the NCAA tournament, I think we all know what the answer would be.
So no, if we're talking levels of accomplishment here....again, my feelings are that Shaheen did far more with far less. And just so we're clear, once again, I think Danny did a tremendous job this year. It's ok for two men to have done a tremendous job - the guy that finishes first doesn't always have to get the flowers too, though.
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That feels right.
It would be like beating Villanova in the 2016 Big East Championship and then they won the national championship.
Kinda like when we won the BET and Nova the natty? Certainly would sit well with both fan bases if Sha/BE and Danny/NCAA won COY.
Why would Danny get National COY after SHU wins the National Championship???
Of course he gets some. That was baked into Point 1. And the kids get credit too. Turns out many of us were wrong for not buying some of the Kool Aid that Dan was selling preseason on the talent ceiling.
Castle on Uconn looks like a wildly different player than just a few months ago. Spencer looks 10x better as an all around player than when I saw him at RU. Is that only because of Hurley? No. It’s part him/staff, part kid, and part the talent just developing organically. We have seen a bunch of old-old kids make a leap or two as seniors. Not the first time that’s happened.
this 100%
im choosing holloway over hurley. returning nat champ team gets first place in the BE. i think sha has done more with much less
ehh that preseason poll should hold weight. juggernaut team ends up being juggernaut.
meanwhile sha has island of misfit toys in the dance. in a tough league.
Agreed. When it comes to the game of basketball, Sha might be one the hungriest guys there is, period.
