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ill do the work and actually link itI would advise all to read this regarding covid 19 practice going forward.
ill do the work and actually link it
Great Barrington Declaration and Petition
As infectious disease epidemiologists and public health scientists we have grave concerns about the damaging physical and mental health impacts of the prevailing COVID-19 policies, and recommend an approach we call Focused Protectiongbdeclaration.org
the only issue i have is that "if youre sick stay home"
its proven that sick people dont stay home. especially when it comes to working from an office. i know personally of a super spreader event for my brother in law's sister's wedding. 200 people inside in virginia. Groom had covid. he going to stay home? is someone going to miss the wedding if they were sick?
people simply dont stay home. you can go to the doctors unless they find out you have covid. most people need to go to the doctors so they lie.
goes on and on. id like to see barringtons response that considers sick people wont stay at home.
you would think that but its not the case. people go to work when theyre sick. the more i hear about your experiences the more i realize you do not have the most realistic view of todays work environment. people dont want to use up that one sick day they get allotted. people dont want to have a day of work pile up for the next day. vacations dont mean you get a break from work, it means you have to backlog everything when you come back + do that weeks work. people dont want to fall behind the other coworkers by a day in fear theyll be a step back from that one promotion that is barely offered."If you're sick, stay home" is common sense. Most people don't even want to work when they're sick so I wouldn't be concerned about that. It's the least of our worries.
Per diem or attendance based compensation is gonna go and clock in. I think it is great that NJ has paid sick time/days now."If you're sick, stay home" is common sense. Most people don't even want to work when they're sick so I wouldn't be concerned about that. It's the least of our worries.
you would think that but its not the case. people go to work when theyre sick. the more i hear about your experiences the more i realize you do not have the most realistic view of todays work environment. people dont want to use up that one sick day they get allotted. people dont want to have a day of work pile up for the next day. vacations dont mean you get a break from work, it means you have to backlog everything when you come back + do that weeks work. people dont want to fall behind the other coworkers by a day in fear theyll be a step back from that one promotion that is barely offered.
and thats just work. you didnt even address anything else. are people going to stay home from weddings, doctors apts, sporting events, concerts, things they have planned or spent money on? answer is no.
you have a very naive view on this. people are inconsiderate. bottom line. they will not stay home. you say its the least of our worries? its enemy #1 from preventing this whole thing from working. hell we currently have people who know they have covid go out bars or other events. its a huge flaw to overlook and deny it.
i support the message, mental health is going down the tubes. we must get back. but we must take into account people will do their normal routine knowing they are sick.
i actually dont, im on your side we need to get things going. i just think we should do minimal things like wear masks (n95) for a bit. and take into account that people wont be courteous when making a plan.Your view is incorrect because you (and certain politicians) think you can control the behavior of every individual. You're wasting time and air talking about that. It's impossible.
"If you're sick, stay home" is common sense. Most people don't even want to work when they're sick so I wouldn't be concerned about that. It's the least of our worries.
Same for stds ehCompletely disagree. Viruses are everywhere, they do their thing. We really need to stop trying to blame people for passing it to others. It happens. You can't control it.
Completely disagree. Viruses are everywhere, they do their thing. We really need to stop trying to blame people for passing it to others. It happens. You can't control it.
"Viruses are everywhere, they do their thing"?
Well yeah, viruses are everywhere but please add the context.
Name the last virus to kill more than 200k Americans in one year and was stopped without a Vaccine.
This one is new. Err on the side of caution and mitigate the risk to give scientists the time to come up with the best treatment or a vaccine. Manage that risk in the full context of overall public health. and Again, I don't feel any restrictions right now. I just got my hair cut and picked up some items from a bakery.
I don't blame people for passing it to others, unless they are selfish a-holes and refuse to wear a mask in crowded places.
why were the ventilators bad?The Barrington Project is exactly what we should be doing. In my conversations with healthcare executives and clinicians are two things that are mentioned most on what we should have done. First of all, we should have strengthened our borders with tight restrictions on allowing travel into the country combined with aggressive contact tracing. That would not have reduce the spread but it would have delayed it and slowed it down dramatically. Essentially, buying time. Secondly, they all agree that we should have focused 100% of our effortson protecting those most at risk. Elderly and those with comorbitities. And then enable the rest of the economy and society to function as normally as possible.
By far, the biggest mistake that was made was treating the early patients with ventilators. That one decision probably killed more people than anything else.
i agree with merge in that we cant pretend it doesnt exist or have a normal impact. number of overall deaths are up. dont treat this as the flu. BUT dont treat it as a the apacolypse. where i disagree with merge is that bars and sports are leisure activities... that create thousands of jobs. the economy has many gears and we gotta get it going.My response was to shuathlete (or SHUSA now I guess lol).
i agree with merge in that we cant pretend it doesnt exist or have a normal impact. number of overall deaths are up. dont treat this as the flu. BUT dont treat it as a the apacolypse. where i disagree with merge is that bars and sports are leisure activities... that create thousands of jobs. the economy has many gears and we gotta get it going.
i like the barrington declaration, but i just am caught up on that one part. people who are sick dont stay home. flu? ok whatever, new virus that has increasd deaths? ok lets account for it.
trust me, as someone who was unfortunately affected on the jobfront its time to get back to normal as much as we can.
young people with the flu arent cautious about spreading it , young people with covid need to be cognisant of who they are in contact with that is vulnerable. yes 50+ or comorbidity must do as much as they can, but covid + has tesponsibility too.It should be treated as the flu for people under 50 or 60, because in those age groups it is no more deadly. For those in the vulnerable categories, they should look at it as something worse than the flu and take appropriate precautions.
where i disagree with merge is that bars and sports are leisure activities... that create thousands of jobs. the economy has many gears and we gotta get it going.
young people with the flu arent cautious about spreading it , young people with covid need to be cognisant of who they are in contact with that is vulnerable. yes 50+ or comorbidity must do as much as they can, but covid + has tesponsibility too.
It should be treated as the flu for people under 50 or 60, because in those age groups it is no more deadly.
i dont think you truly understood me. i wasnt saying the vulnerable shouldnt look out for themselves. of course they should. im saying its both that need to be cognizant in this scenario of covid. the vulnerable might think its ok to see a non-sick individual. or that that its ok to shop at a store because covid positive arent allowed in. that non-sick individual is actually out and about despite a positive covid test, well that needs to be punishable to actually get the sick to stay in.I believe it is up to those in the vulnerable category to choose how much risk they expose themselves to. The vulnerable need to be cognizant of who they're in contact with, not the other way around. If they're comfortable with seeing other people, that's fine and entirely up to them. If they aren't, that's fine too. Leave it up to the individual. For instance, my 90 year old grandmother has no problem with seeing me, my cousins or her own children (some of them in the "vulnerable" category). Other senior citizens might not be comfortable with that and that's fine too.
i dont think you truly understood me. i wasnt saying the vulnerable shouldnt look out for themselves. of course they should. im saying its both that need to be cognizant in this scenario of covid. the vulnerable might think its ok to see a non-sick individual. or that that its ok to shop at a store because covid positive arent allowed in. that non-sick individual is actually out and about despite a positive covid test, well that needs to be punishable to actually get the sick to stay in.
i guess my question is how. i never heard of that somehow.Because they were killing people.
you think sick people should hide the fact theyre sick and just go out to knowingly spread it? is that what youre saying? you cant budge from the deep end of your spectrum to admit there can be some precautions?No. Just no.
you think sick people should hide the fact theyre sick and just go out to knowingly spread it? is that what youre saying? you cant budge from the deep end of your spectrum to admit there can be some precautions?
ok.
That is not correct.
Covid deaths under 65 is around 5-6 times the number of flu deaths in 2019 in the same age group.
It should not be treated as the flu because in every age group above 14, it has proven to be more contagious than the flu, more deadly than the flu and we have vaccines and effective treatments for the flu.
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200415/ventilators-helping-or-harming-covid-19-patientsi guess my question is how. i never heard of that somehow.
Wrong. It is quite comparable to flu in the younger, less vulnerable age groups. Is it more contagious? Yes. But it is only marginally more deadly.
*should* is not a plan. they dont stay home and they wont stay home. if they did than the rate of transmission would be below 1. but lets not even start there, lets have it so we dont have videos of people bragging about being out and about while infected with covid.Sick people should stay home. I said that before. Sick people do stay home.
Who is the person who decides who is vulnerable and who is not? The person themselves? Problem is people are not responsible to do the right thing. If they were, perhaps that this would work to an extent. But the virus would spread very rapidly throughout the population then threatening those who stayed home. I don't think we should discount this all together with the upcoming second wave. However, this is not going to work without a serious amount of people dying. The rationale for the shutdown is prevent as many people from dying until we have the vaccine. The second wave is coming already. Hospitals have had a steady increase in CoVid patients and already converting units into Covid units.Completely disagree. Viruses are everywhere, they do their thing. We really need to stop trying to blame people for passing it to others. It happens. You can't control it.