GUNS
- Thread starter Muggsy Blue
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Good luck passing any gun legislation as we welcome ISIS across our borders....do we know who these shooters were yet?
I'm for background checks and confiscation of guns from anyone having a criminal background. Automatic jail time for possession of an illegal weapon.
I agree but I'd include mental health issues in addition to a violent criminal record.
Tom K
So now this event is looking more like a terrorist attack. The idiot in the White House jumps the gun yet again. He just needs to STFU....within hours, tries to politicize this being about gun control when this tragedy is turning out to be about the enemy from within. When is this country going to stop with the partisan bullshit and wake up?
To my original point, good luck passing gun legislation now...I'm not a gun owner, and think there are practical things that can be done (like Tom is suggesting). The minute the domestic Islamic terrorists are better armed than our citizens though, we're done. Does anyone want to talk about the bombs they had planted at the center and in their home? And surely, he's not funding all this artillery as a restaurant inspector. We also need to wake up on the threat of terrorism. This event wasn't the first (remember Brendan Tevlin?), but it's looking like our "Paris" moment.
To my original point, good luck passing gun legislation now...I'm not a gun owner, and think there are practical things that can be done (like Tom is suggesting). The minute the domestic Islamic terrorists are better armed than our citizens though, we're done. Does anyone want to talk about the bombs they had planted at the center and in their home? And surely, he's not funding all this artillery as a restaurant inspector. We also need to wake up on the threat of terrorism. This event wasn't the first (remember Brendan Tevlin?), but it's looking like our "Paris" moment.
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The problem is in the main part the easy access to guns, and the American wish to walk around like Wyatt Earp. The words of the repub candidates about guns tells you how f'ing crazy they think the right base is, not even saying that guys on no fly lists should not be able to buy guns.
But just like the Paris shootings, there is no solution to the problem. In America, anyone can get a gun and do what they wish, 8 to 80, blind cripple or crazy...And if any of them wants to pull up to a shopping mall and start shooting, all we can do is duck and run. Or I guess you can have a gunfight with them if you wish.
When I first saw Inherit the Wind, I remember thinking thank goodness we are not that crazy any more. And when we saw the shootouts in the OK Corral in the moves we probably were glad we have evolved to a higher level than that. Wrong on both counts.
IMO, this amendment and the 14th amendment are mis-interpreted, one by the right and one by the left, and neither helps this country.
I am sure we all remember those dinner table talks by your Dad, reminding you that if the govt militia comes for us, the guns are in the cupboard.
Both amendments were written for their time and only hurt us now.
But just like the Paris shootings, there is no solution to the problem. In America, anyone can get a gun and do what they wish, 8 to 80, blind cripple or crazy...And if any of them wants to pull up to a shopping mall and start shooting, all we can do is duck and run. Or I guess you can have a gunfight with them if you wish.
When I first saw Inherit the Wind, I remember thinking thank goodness we are not that crazy any more. And when we saw the shootouts in the OK Corral in the moves we probably were glad we have evolved to a higher level than that. Wrong on both counts.
IMO, this amendment and the 14th amendment are mis-interpreted, one by the right and one by the left, and neither helps this country.
I am sure we all remember those dinner table talks by your Dad, reminding you that if the govt militia comes for us, the guns are in the cupboard.
Both amendments were written for their time and only hurt us now.
I have often thought that the Second Amendment has outlived its usefulness. While this may be considered blasphemy by some, I believe it to be true. During the Revolutionary War, militias or organized groups of citizens did a lot of fighting against the British. However, in 2015, the US has a standing Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines that the founding fathers could not possibly imagine.
"I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors." Thomas Jefferson
That quote is on the Jefferson Memorial. No truer words could ever be stated. It is time to change and let go of this portion of the Bill of Rights. It longer fits us as a country.
"I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors." Thomas Jefferson
That quote is on the Jefferson Memorial. No truer words could ever be stated. It is time to change and let go of this portion of the Bill of Rights. It longer fits us as a country.
Completely agree. And we probably need an amendment now for the internet and personal information.....
How many more incidents like this have to happen before we as a nation make it harder to obtain guns and especially assault weapons. Why has this not been done before is strictly because of the power of the gun lobby (munitions industry) and their lust for profits regardless of the consequences. They fund the candidates to assure that they do not vote for reform. Not very different from the tobacco or asbestos lobby in years gone by.
Tom K
Tom K
Tom, let's be clear...this incident is not about guns...it's primarily about terrorism.
It's about both. Other attacks such as the one killing the school children in Connecticut or the one last week at a Planned parenthood facility had nothing to do with terrorism. Fact is most of these mass murder attacks were not terrorist related.
Are you familiar with road rage. How would you like to be driving on our roadways with everyone packing their own weapon. The gun industry is sure in favor of that. Yup everyone should be able to walk up to the counter & buy whatever weapon they want whenever they want.
Tom K
This incident isn't. And, yes, I agree that there needs to be measures put in place to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill and criminals. So why does the public keep electing politicians from both sides that do nothing about it? I was listening to Congressman Peter King this morning (R-NY) who was saying you can be on the "no-fly" list, but can buy a gun....total inaction by Congress and the President.
We also need campaign reform...start with the gun lobby, but go right down the list. How about the ABA that lobbied against tort reform in the ACA???
No one gets killed because of the tort laws! and for the most part tort reform laws have been passed quite a while ago at least here in New Jersey.
Secondly it seems that you attack the President for everything possible. In many instances he is deserving of same but not in this instance as he has been pushing gun reform all along. It is those congressmen whose campaigns are financed by the munitions industry that block it constantly. Remember background checks and assault weapon bans were the law for ten years but the gun industry lobbied & spent heavily to block extension of those laws.
Tom K
Secondly it seems that you attack the President for everything possible. In many instances he is deserving of same but not in this instance as he has been pushing gun reform all along. It is those congressmen whose campaigns are financed by the munitions industry that block it constantly. Remember background checks and assault weapon bans were the law for ten years but the gun industry lobbied & spent heavily to block extension of those laws.
Tom K
Any person with the money can get any gun he wants. Regardless of his circumstances, regardless of local laws. Tom and I are old enough to remember when the bad gangs were the guys with switchblades. How quaint.
You know better than to blame Obama for the no fly zone insanity. He spoke out against it. EVERY REPUB CANDIDATE DODGED THE QUESTION. THEY WERE ASKED IF PEOPLE ON NO FLY LISTS DESERVED THE SAME ACCESS TO GUNS AS OTHER PEOPLE, THAN THEY DID NOT HAVE THE BALLS TO SAY NO ****ING WAY. NOT ONE OF THEM. That is how crazy they thinK the repub base is. And no, I wasn't shouting. I was screaming.
Tom, beating up lobbyist's is in vogue except when you have to look in the mirror? How convenient.
My criticism of the President on this issue is because he jumped the gun (yet again) to politicize an issue (which he did). This is looking like a terrorist attack...shouldn't we be primarily concerned about that threat instead of the weapon's they used??? They found 12 explosive devices and 6,700 rounds of ammo in the apartment of a guy who makes $50,000/year with a wife, baby and mother. Who funded this weaponry? Maybe we should be focusing our actions and attention on the terrorists, mentally ill and criminals??
Where was his passion for this issue during his first term when he had a Democratic House and Senate. Easy to demonize Republican's on this issue, but those lobbyist's also fund both sides of the street. Peter King didn't dodge the issue...he was pretty blatant about his support of the no-fly list.
Go ahead...keep making this a completely partisan issue (because that's how you like to divide everything), but my guess is that those 300 million guns are not just owned by Republicans.
My criticism of the President on this issue is because he jumped the gun (yet again) to politicize an issue (which he did). This is looking like a terrorist attack...shouldn't we be primarily concerned about that threat instead of the weapon's they used??? They found 12 explosive devices and 6,700 rounds of ammo in the apartment of a guy who makes $50,000/year with a wife, baby and mother. Who funded this weaponry? Maybe we should be focusing our actions and attention on the terrorists, mentally ill and criminals??
Where was his passion for this issue during his first term when he had a Democratic House and Senate. Easy to demonize Republican's on this issue, but those lobbyist's also fund both sides of the street. Peter King didn't dodge the issue...he was pretty blatant about his support of the no-fly list.
Go ahead...keep making this a completely partisan issue (because that's how you like to divide everything), but my guess is that those 300 million guns are not just owned by Republicans.
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Your criticism of the President is because you criticize the President for everything and have been doing it for all 7 years that he has been in office. While there are many things I disagree with him on this is not one of them. I absolutely agree with him on gun control and his comments were right on the money.
Tom K
There is a lot to critique when one is incompetent. Waiting for him to comment on the nature of this terrorist attack.
But on one hand you say you are for gun control and then in the next post you criticize the President for promoting gun control.That is just illogical.
Now terrorism is a separate issue and I agree that he has not done enough to combat it. Under his watch ISIS was allowed to grow despite warnings from his Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and two Secretaries of Defense Robert Gates and Leon Panetta..
Tom K
Now terrorism is a separate issue and I agree that he has not done enough to combat it. Under his watch ISIS was allowed to grow despite warnings from his Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and two Secretaries of Defense Robert Gates and Leon Panetta..
Tom K
The problem with gun control laws is they won't stop bad actors. People who are sick enough to kill have no regard for the law to begin with. There is also a huge black market for weapons that no law will ever be able to control. We're stuck in the mud on this one, no matter what your beliefs on the issue are.
You hit it 09. There are hundreds of thousands of illegal weapons owned in the cities by gang members through out our country. Any sick person with evil intentions can buy a gun on the black market. If a person subjects themselves to background checks, for the most part, they have nothing to hide. You can make it more difficult to purchase a weapon legally, but these people are not the problem.Our president is a delusional moron, thinking more gun control is the solution, his comments are strictly made with regard to his party's lobby interests. I taught in the inner city for 35 years. I know how easy it is to buy an illegal gun. I also have a house in upper NY State. Guns are a way of life. High Schools all have rifle and pistol teams. Students are taught responsible ownership. Most teenagers own guns here because they hunt. I have never seen any shooting incidents . Can we say the same for Chicago, Detroit, Paterson, Newark etc? Like you said 09, we are stuck in the mud.
Tom, here's the issue I have. Before knowing any facts, he uses an event to advance an agenda. It looks like these guns were purchased legally, so even if you take the strictest gun control laws that of been proposed it wouldn't of stopped these terrorists from getting those guns. It would be like using a car accident to advance an agenda on drunk driving before you knew the results of a breathalyzer test and investigation. That's irresponsible. Plus, there is a time and a place to discuss this. We didn't even know the names of the victims and he is going partisan on us.
09 and the Bluerock make some very good points. At the end of the day we need to take guns out of the hands of criminals. And we need to keep them out of the hands of the mentally ill. Bad guys will find a way to get guns, but unless you step up the efforts to confiscate and criminalize, good luck with gun control laws preventing any of that. In a way Obama has done more for gun sales then the NRA. Two weeks ago a record was set for number of background checks in one day, 185, 000! I would venture to say, that these applications are not from criminals. Did you ever why legal law abiding gun owners are buying more? Those people are concerned that police forces continue to be emasculated and demonized by politicians and the media. They are concerned that there are real terroristic threats that we face. They want to be in a position to stop a loony before they pull the trigger on them. We really need to look at and advance programs like stop and frisk. Police need to be preemptive in taking these guns out of the hands of bad guys. And penalties need to be extremely harsh for anyone that uses a gun in the commission of a crime. Because like the other posters have stated there is no gun control law that will keep guns out of their hands. Vast majority of gun violence is committed by criminals, the mentally ill and terrorists. Shouldn't we be treating the symptom?
I do agree with most of that other than the black market. We obviously can't get rid of it but we can try to limit it.
I am not in favor measures that would ban guns I do believe we should have background checks, licenses, and gun registration and MASSIVE penalties for when someone is unlicensed and carrying an unregistered firearm and bigger penalties for crimes committed with a gun.
No law abiding gun owner would be harmed in any way.
I have no problem with background checks that involve criminal checks. mental health screenings, and other (radical Islam, etc.). The overwhelming majority of guns are sold this way (78-86% of all guns).
Most of these shootings would not have been prevented with this kind of screening.
Most of these shootings would not have been prevented with this kind of screening.
I agree SPK. That people do not want to limit guys on no fly lists cause they fear the list will be inaccurate is staggering to me. But this cat is out of the bag. I don't see a solution in my lifetime. Stopping the sale of weapons suited for cops and soldiers is commonsense. But even that cannot get done. As Tom stated above, the NRA is too powerful a source of funding in too many congressional races to let that happen. I have not lived my life in a shell, and have had some rather unsavory friends and acquaintances over the years. And I cant remember ever seeing a gun other than one in a cops' holster. I admit it is a culture totally alien to me.
The black market exists because it is an open market to buy firearms in many states. Yes there are tons of guns in NJ and any but it's because you have states like Virginia Texas and NC where it is so easy to get guns and traffic it into the state.
It must be a federal mandate to stop selling guns in all 50 states. NJ's guns control laws are worthless without all states doing the same.
The other way to stop this proliferation of firearms is to make the manufacturer of firearms civilly liable for shootings and deaths. A direct trail from manufacture to retailer to buyer and subsequent owners must be maintained.
There must be mandatory registration and tracking of all firearms on an annual basis. The person who transfers a gun to another must register that transfer and sale. The new owner must register as well or face criminal and civil sanctions. Currently there is no way of tracking firearms. Once a gun is sold at a gun show, it disappears into the black market. No way to track and no way to hold someone responsible.
It must be a federal mandate to stop selling guns in all 50 states. NJ's guns control laws are worthless without all states doing the same.
The other way to stop this proliferation of firearms is to make the manufacturer of firearms civilly liable for shootings and deaths. A direct trail from manufacture to retailer to buyer and subsequent owners must be maintained.
There must be mandatory registration and tracking of all firearms on an annual basis. The person who transfers a gun to another must register that transfer and sale. The new owner must register as well or face criminal and civil sanctions. Currently there is no way of tracking firearms. Once a gun is sold at a gun show, it disappears into the black market. No way to track and no way to hold someone responsible.
Should we hold the administration accountable for selling weapons to Mexican drug lords...Fast and Furious?? Would have loved to see where those guns ended up if they were registered as you suggested.
We can put all that registration and tracking in place (which I support) but unless you put penalties (meaningful and punitive jail terms) and confiscation practices in place it won't have a material effect.
We can put all that registration and tracking in place (which I support) but unless you put penalties (meaningful and punitive jail terms) and confiscation practices in place it won't have a material effect.
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Nothing will stop this insanity. Get used to it and get used to it getting worse and worse.
The answer to your question is yes. Holder is one of the worst AG's that have ever held office. And with the tracking and registration, the answer is yes criminal and civil liabilities have to be put in place.
and all the gop folk who get fundraising support from nra can only say that their thoughts and prayers are with the families of the victims
and all the gop folk who get fundraising support from nra can only say that their thoughts and prayers are with the families of the victims
let me be more precise, gop candidates for president are saying this; i haven't done the research but i bet gop group gets more nra money than dems
seems like the appropriate thing to say when two radical Islamics murder innocent U.S. citizens.
If the bombs they planted have gone off first killing everyone would your NRA angle matter?
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