Why should they have to sit out for doing something that a) violates no rule, b) their owners support, and c) pushes back against powerful forces trying to compel them to act against their convictions despite a and b?
How could they dishonor our country.
- Thread starter HPPirate
- Start date
1. Sitting out is possibly a stronger position. You take away the product and hope the American people say enough is enough. Let's do what we have to do to support the players and get back to playing football.
2. The owners don't support them. Kaepernick would have a job. The owners showed no support until the President said walk out if the players kneel. The owners have a lot of money to lose if that happens. The owners stood in solidarity with the players because NFL needs to come together. Not one has signed Kaepernick today.
Hey here's a thought, if you don't want police officers to shoot you, comply wth their requests during any incident. Pretty simple. I agree that there are the occasional situation like in south carolina where the cop is in the wrong and in that case that cop was convicted of murder. But in most cases i.e. charlotte last year they are in fact justified. Why is it that all these "innocent" victims of police brutality haved rap sheets a mile long and yet the media never points this out.
NFL calling Trump devisive but in my opinion, Omamination was the biggest cause of our nation being as divided as it is today and probably the root of this whole kneeling crap.
The appeal of President Trump is that he's not politically correct and tells it like it is and how many of us feel. These leftists are brainwashed into being white shamed..that just because we're white, we're evil and racist. It's a load of ...well you know...and many of the forgotten working class in america are tired of it.
Non-compliance with a police officer is not a capital crime. Having a long rap sheet is not a capital crime. The police are part of the judicial system, not the entire thing.
This should not be a partisan issue.
Really disappointed that I can't even come to this message board in peace without having to read more about this nonsense. This topic has ZERO to do with the Seton Hall Pirates right now, and I have to politely disagree with Dan for thinking this is an appropriate discussion in this forum. We have several other forums where this conversation would be better served and more appropriate. Again, this is a Pirates Hoops Chat forum, not a pro sports forum. Not interested in reading about this, nor am I interested in reading about how awful the Giants are either, for that matter.
One of the few remaining places left that are typically insulated from all of this political horse crap that seems to infest the airwaves and now that is gone too.
One of the few remaining places left that are typically insulated from all of this political horse crap that seems to infest the airwaves and now that is gone too.
Actually the state case ended in a deadlocked jury, which is unfathomable to me. But that right there just shows that these protests are needed. Luckily in this case federal civil rights charges were brought and he plead guilty, but will prolly only get 20 years. You think that guy he gunned down, or me, or you, would get 20 if we shot a cop in the back? Riiiiiight.
So thank you for being wrong and actually helping my point even more.
And as for the "why don't they protest the criminals that do a lot of crime" nonsense argument, let's just put that to bed right now. That is such a lazy straw man and you all know it. Of course these athletes & every non-criminal is against the crime that takes place in the black community. There's no controversy there. We're all against it & it doesn't really need to be shouted from the rooftops. It's obvious. What would a protest even do for that? Who are you protesting to? Criminals aren't exactly advertising themselves. And they hold no power. But the cops and govt DO have power. They are asserting that power many times in destructive ways, and the powerless (or perceived powerless) are simply asking them to stop. So now athletes are taking more drastic measures to force you to deal with the issue. We can deal with black on black crime, global warming, the health care debate & Seton Hall 2018 recruiting too...all at the same time. Anyone trying to make this an either/or type argument has an agenda: to protect those in power. And what's scary is they might not even realize it.
Protest has always been partly about making people uncomfortable. Not to just go in a corner and wave a sign. And if you're backing the powered class & you feel uncomfortable....I guess that means it's working.
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All I can say is walk in their shoes in the worse crime area of any city that are dominated by gangs, look at the statistics of gang related killings , the amount of guns in those areas and then you can speak on the subject of what police officers face when a suspect doesn't comply with their instructions.
I actually think the opposite is happening. There are probably a lot of people that are sympathetic to improving training and accountability in law enforcement but these protests lack any substance or stated objectives. We have been having this "conversation" since Kaepernick took a knee, but where are the solutions and who's leading the charge? Crickets.
I do find it a little ironic that this day of protest coincided with the Steven Siller tunnels to towers run. I know this will pain you, but you should probably be giving Trump a lot of credit. He is the one that has ripped the Band-Aid off this issue of yours.
How is it working? I haven't seen 1 suggestion about getting a bad cop off the streets. People are talking about the protest not the issue. The protest has been extremely disrespectful to so many people that the issue has become the protest and not the bad cops. More people have burned NFL gear than come up with a suggestion to stop the few bad cops. More people have booed the players than come up with a suggestion to stop the few bad cops. The news networks talk more about Trumps tweets about this than stopping bad cops. I just don't see how it's working yet.
No one is saying it is a capital crime. However, if a police officer has to choose between a non compliant suspects life and their own they will and SHOULD choose their own. Very simple equation, don't commit crimes or if you do, don't resist=you don't get shot. Really simple.
No, what I took from it was not your opinion but the childish names you saw fit to call a poster that disagreed with you.
Since we had two threads on this topic I chose to move one to the Off the ship board.
This one will remain here but I ask those that are responding to keep on the sports track here. If this becomes about anything more than the FB protests then I will move it to the off the ship board as well.
This is a major sports topic of conversation and deserves to be posted for discussion and since my warning the name calling has stopped and for that I say thank you.
This one will remain here but I ask those that are responding to keep on the sports track here. If this becomes about anything more than the FB protests then I will move it to the off the ship board as well.
This is a major sports topic of conversation and deserves to be posted for discussion and since my warning the name calling has stopped and for that I say thank you.
This board has been so much more readable for me since ignoring a certain poster, who again is being scolded for acting childish,
Solo is a very knowledgeable poster IMO. I often agree with his opinions. I just have an issue with the name calling.
Hopefully that will now stop.
Hopefully that will now stop.
President Trump downplays size of NFL national anthem protests, supports NASCAR and fans who booed
JAKE BECKERJASON SILVERSTEIN
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
The NFL protests are still driving President Trump crazy.
Trump awoke Monday morning and continued berating the NFL's protesting players on Twitter — this time by saying they're not as patriotic as the NASCAR crowd.
"So proud of NASCAR and its supporters and fans. They won’t put up with disrespecting our Country or our Flag - they said it loud and clear!” Trump tweeted.
NASCAR on Sunday discouraged its drivers from protesting the anthem during its Cup series race in New Hampshire, even as more than 100 NFL players kneeled or locked arms in solidarity during their games. Some teams stayed off the field entirely during the anthem.
In two other tweets, Trump recycled the same arguments he made Sunday while shaming NFL players for taking a knee during the national anthem at their games.
In one tweet, he once again misrepresented the protests as an objection to the American flag.
"Many people booed he players who kneeled yesterday (which was a small percentage of total). These are fans who demand respect for our Flag!" he said.
In another, he wrote, "The issue of kneeling has nothing to do with race. It is about respect for our Country, Flag and National Anthem. NFL must respect this!"
Trump also tweeted a hashtag, "#StandForOurAnthem," in contrast to the protest hashtag #TakeAKnee, and he retweeted a tribute to late NFL player Pat Tillman, who was killed in action in the U.S. Army 13 years ago.
Altogether, the President tweeted about the NFL five times in the morning.
Trump has repeatedly denied that there is any racial undertone to his running feud with the NFL, but its connection to racial tensions is impossible to overlook.
The NFL's kneeling protests were started last year by former San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick, who is black and said he was protesting America's treatment of African-Americans. Despite what Trump has said, the protest was never intended to oppose the American flag.
About two-thirds of players in the NFL are black. By contrast, NASCAR has had only four black drivers in one of its top national series.
Black players were not the only ones protesting on Sunday, as their teammates and even several team owners joined them in their demonstrations.
Team owners widely condemned Trump's remarks and said they stood by their players, even though several of the owners donated $1 million to Trump's inaugural committee.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/f...em-protest-backs-fans-booed-article-1.3519634
JAKE BECKERJASON SILVERSTEIN
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
The NFL protests are still driving President Trump crazy.
Trump awoke Monday morning and continued berating the NFL's protesting players on Twitter — this time by saying they're not as patriotic as the NASCAR crowd.
"So proud of NASCAR and its supporters and fans. They won’t put up with disrespecting our Country or our Flag - they said it loud and clear!” Trump tweeted.
NASCAR on Sunday discouraged its drivers from protesting the anthem during its Cup series race in New Hampshire, even as more than 100 NFL players kneeled or locked arms in solidarity during their games. Some teams stayed off the field entirely during the anthem.
In two other tweets, Trump recycled the same arguments he made Sunday while shaming NFL players for taking a knee during the national anthem at their games.
In one tweet, he once again misrepresented the protests as an objection to the American flag.
"Many people booed he players who kneeled yesterday (which was a small percentage of total). These are fans who demand respect for our Flag!" he said.
In another, he wrote, "The issue of kneeling has nothing to do with race. It is about respect for our Country, Flag and National Anthem. NFL must respect this!"
Trump also tweeted a hashtag, "#StandForOurAnthem," in contrast to the protest hashtag #TakeAKnee, and he retweeted a tribute to late NFL player Pat Tillman, who was killed in action in the U.S. Army 13 years ago.
Altogether, the President tweeted about the NFL five times in the morning.
Trump has repeatedly denied that there is any racial undertone to his running feud with the NFL, but its connection to racial tensions is impossible to overlook.
The NFL's kneeling protests were started last year by former San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick, who is black and said he was protesting America's treatment of African-Americans. Despite what Trump has said, the protest was never intended to oppose the American flag.
About two-thirds of players in the NFL are black. By contrast, NASCAR has had only four black drivers in one of its top national series.
Black players were not the only ones protesting on Sunday, as their teammates and even several team owners joined them in their demonstrations.
Team owners widely condemned Trump's remarks and said they stood by their players, even though several of the owners donated $1 million to Trump's inaugural committee.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/f...em-protest-backs-fans-booed-article-1.3519634
I completely disagree that it's working.. It's actually causing resentment in many. Many don't even know why they are kneeling. Bottom line is that Trump's statements had nothing to do with race. Yes they have the right to protest. There are better ways to exercise that right than to disrespect the servicemen who have given their lives to protect those rights. Polls show that 80% of people are offended by the action of kneeling. It's all about money in the NFL so when it hits their wallets something will be done. I've done my part by canceling my NFL Sunday ticket subscription. You know what BLM and Kaepernick should focus on... working in communities and stopping black Americans from killing each other since 93% of black homicides are committed by other blacks.
Trump's comments made a bad situation worse. So it is hard to tell what the focus of the protest is...... is it a #resist thing...... racial inequality.....police mis-deeds..... attempt to somehow protect the NFL? Not sure. All it has really done is further divide the country.
I think that disrespecting the National Anthem and the flag is not an appropriate way to protest. I know it's too much to ask but I wish protesters would just once consider what the National Anthem and the flag mean to our service men and women who bravely protect the rights of the protesters, I wish they would consider just once what the flag means to those widows and survivors of fallen Soldiers, Airmen, Sailors, Marines and Coasties who are handed the folded flag that covered their loved ones caskets.
Just once they should consider who exactly they are disrespecting when they take knee or otherwise disrespect the flag and Anthem.
Just once.... find another way to voice your protest.
I think that disrespecting the National Anthem and the flag is not an appropriate way to protest. I know it's too much to ask but I wish protesters would just once consider what the National Anthem and the flag mean to our service men and women who bravely protect the rights of the protesters, I wish they would consider just once what the flag means to those widows and survivors of fallen Soldiers, Airmen, Sailors, Marines and Coasties who are handed the folded flag that covered their loved ones caskets.
Just once they should consider who exactly they are disrespecting when they take knee or otherwise disrespect the flag and Anthem.
Just once.... find another way to voice your protest.
For me personally the National Anthem stands for pride in the country and a way to honor those that protected our freedom.
My father was a very simple man who led a simple life. But the one thing he was most proud of (other than his family) is serving the country in WW 2. It's the only personal thing about himself that he ever talked about.
I fully understand the issues touching the lives of so many here but I agree with those that say there are better ways to create the awareness necessary.
The right of free speech is protected in this country so the FB players are within their rights to do what they are doing. But it doesn't mean we have to agree with their actions.
Their purpose? Yes. Their actions to serve that purpose? For me, no.
My father was a very simple man who led a simple life. But the one thing he was most proud of (other than his family) is serving the country in WW 2. It's the only personal thing about himself that he ever talked about.
I fully understand the issues touching the lives of so many here but I agree with those that say there are better ways to create the awareness necessary.
The right of free speech is protected in this country so the FB players are within their rights to do what they are doing. But it doesn't mean we have to agree with their actions.
Their purpose? Yes. Their actions to serve that purpose? For me, no.
You're kidding right? We are talking about the use of lethal force in non-lethal situations with the deciding factor being race. This is the highest form of brutality. As I always say, "Police Brutality" is an oxymoron. Once police choose to be brutal, they are no longer police.
This is America, whether we like it or not they have this right.
THAT SHOULD BE THE END OF STORY
If you do not like the constitution or the rights we have you can get out.
THAT SHOULD BE THE END OF STORY
If you do not like the constitution or the rights we have you can get out.
I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not sure whether or not they possess that right in the workplace. Free speech is a great thing, however there are limits like you can't yell the word fire in a crowded room.
I'll agree with this, though I think it's distasteful, as is flag burning. They have the right, and I have the right to turn it off. I've been drifting further away from pro sports in the last few years. This ugly episode is just another reason to stay away. The players don't care about Joe Fan, and neither do the owners, so long as they keep emptying their wallets to enter their over-done luxury arenas.
Growing up in the 70s, it was a real treat for dad to take us to one, maybe two, Yankee games in a season, with a cooler of food and drinks. Even then, he thought that the ticket prices were exorbitant; I don't know if he's checked them recently. I will forever remember those games, though, long after dad is gone. What pro sports has become is a real loss of many of our childhoods.
The workplace is collectively bargained, what is the literature of the basic agreement?
I'm with Dan here 100%. Players have rights to protest and I don't have to agree with it. My family as well has a deep military history with my father who fought in WWII and many uncles, cousins and nephews who proudly served or are currently serving.
And the Pres has inflamed the situation unnecessarily as well.
A
anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0
Guest
If you like football as myself, stick to High school football on Fridays, college football on Saturdays, turn off the TV on Sundays and spend time with family.
Go listen to Clay Travis if you want to hear facts that the media will not report. Although he can act immature, as our president, they use facts to come to conclusions.
Go listen to Clay Travis if you want to hear facts that the media will not report. Although he can act immature, as our president, they use facts to come to conclusions.
The 1st Amendment only protects your free speech rights from government interference. The NFL or specific teams, etc. could ban kneeling if they want to.
My feelings are that this is incredibly disrespectful but shouldn't be banned, all actions have consequences, and there is some police brutality but is very, very minor in scheme of things.
I haven't paid to see a pro sporting of event of any kind in eons but I do play pro fantasy sports and participate in pro pools of all kinds so I guess it doesn't bother me too much yet.
does the amount of ad impressions served on our board get recognized anywhere? or is it all just gravy for rivals? if it helps then i say we keep these discussions going because they are engaging our visitors the most during this offseason.
that being said im staying out of this one! LOL
that being said im staying out of this one! LOL
Trump had no business talking about the Kapernick protest. This protest was dying. He lowered himself and the office by commenting on it. This of course is going to have reaction from NFL players. I completely understand players protesting Trump. However, I do not believe in some of the manner in which they did protest. The Steelers not coming out for the anthem is just wrong and distasteful. Two wrongs do not make a right. Some teams interlocked arms and I thought that was a respectful way to protest without denigrating the flag.
Yes, the players have the right to protest and the public has a right to object in the manner in which they protest.
With regard to police shootings, many of the shootings that go on, it is because people do not obey a police officer's commands. That sends the officer in high alert. Any movement could cause the officer to think that his life is in danger which will result in that officer firing. We need to educate the public about how police officers get shot. How dangerous of a job they have. And likewise, police need to come out against their fellow officer when it is a bad shoot like South Carolina.
I don't have a problem with BLM in the message that they send out. Maybe some of their tactics I disagree with. However, I do agree with the message that all black lives matter. With that said, if all black lives matter, come to the communities where black men get murdered every day by other black men. And witnesses will not talk to the police about who did the murder. Encourage the communities to speak out and give statements about the crimes they see committed in their presence.
There is much to do on both sides of this argument. Also, there is much to understand better from both sides. Unfortunately, we have a President who would rather flame the fire than be the person who brings the country together.
Yes, the players have the right to protest and the public has a right to object in the manner in which they protest.
With regard to police shootings, many of the shootings that go on, it is because people do not obey a police officer's commands. That sends the officer in high alert. Any movement could cause the officer to think that his life is in danger which will result in that officer firing. We need to educate the public about how police officers get shot. How dangerous of a job they have. And likewise, police need to come out against their fellow officer when it is a bad shoot like South Carolina.
I don't have a problem with BLM in the message that they send out. Maybe some of their tactics I disagree with. However, I do agree with the message that all black lives matter. With that said, if all black lives matter, come to the communities where black men get murdered every day by other black men. And witnesses will not talk to the police about who did the murder. Encourage the communities to speak out and give statements about the crimes they see committed in their presence.
There is much to do on both sides of this argument. Also, there is much to understand better from both sides. Unfortunately, we have a President who would rather flame the fire than be the person who brings the country together.
Agree with you on the football part. Baseball is still good on Sundays right now.
The NFL players would be so much better focusing on domestic violence and not during the anthem. It would help the numbers, the ratings, and ultimately their wallets.
Dan, do you truly believe the owners are siding with their players OR
The owners know that Trump can shoot someone in NY and not lose a vote. That people are crazy and follow him regardless. And if his base boycotts football their billion dollar organizations could crash down to being worth only hundreds of millions, which would be a huge financial loss to them if America stops watching the NFL.
“Man, these are divisive times in the United States,” said Tomlin, one of the few black head coaches in the league. “It’s a shame, but it is, but we are not politicians, we’re coaches and professional athletes. If those of us or individuals choose to participate in politics in some way I’m going to be supportive of that, but when we come out of locker rooms we come out to play football games. To be quite honest with you, I didn’t appreciate our football team being dragged into politics this weekend.”
http://nypost.com/2017/09/25/steelers-confused-about-players-public-anthem-salute/
1. They have the right no matter what, but can do so with complete impunity when it's granted by the employer.
2. This is nothing like yelling "fire!" in a crowded room, as it represents no immediate danger to anyone.
I never made a direct comparison. Obviously you twisted it. All I said is there are limits to free speech like yelling fire in a crowded room. There's no direct comparison. That is just 1 of the many examples of where free speech is limited.
This will be hard to explain for the people who complain about NFL protests and like to take credit for the drop in the league’s television ratings: With more protests and demonstrations in Week 3 than any other week in NFL history, ratings were up.
CBS, which had the doubleheader on Sunday, reported an increase with a huge spike for its pregame show.
Overall ratings will likely be up from last season once the Dallas Cowboys play the Arizona Cardinals on “Monday Night Football.” The Cowboys are regularly the biggest ratings draw the sport has. This is from John Ourand of Sports Business Journal and Michael Mulvihill, the senior vice president for programming and research at Fox Sports:
The ratings dip was always overblown. The NFL destroys every other sport in television ratings. Percentages might have been down for a couple weeks, but the NFL had set such a high bar that it was a prisoner of its own success when comparing ratings to previous years.
And for the notion that college football was taking over the NFL’s turf, well …
It’s hard to take seriously any claim that people boycotting the NFL because of protests are responsible for the decline in NFL ratings – and for everyone who says they won’t watch the NFL because players kneel during the anthem, there are others who say they won’t watch the NFL because Colin Kaepernick remains unsigned – after what we saw in Week 3. It was a great Sunday of football and still the main story was what players did during the national anthem. And people tuned in en masse, as they usually do for the NFL.
As it turns out, a lot of people still watch the NFL despite a vocal minority insisting otherwise. Go figure.
https://sports.yahoo.com/cbs-rating...l&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer
CBS, which had the doubleheader on Sunday, reported an increase with a huge spike for its pregame show.
Overall ratings will likely be up from last season once the Dallas Cowboys play the Arizona Cardinals on “Monday Night Football.” The Cowboys are regularly the biggest ratings draw the sport has. This is from John Ourand of Sports Business Journal and Michael Mulvihill, the senior vice president for programming and research at Fox Sports:
The ratings dip was always overblown. The NFL destroys every other sport in television ratings. Percentages might have been down for a couple weeks, but the NFL had set such a high bar that it was a prisoner of its own success when comparing ratings to previous years.
And for the notion that college football was taking over the NFL’s turf, well …
It’s hard to take seriously any claim that people boycotting the NFL because of protests are responsible for the decline in NFL ratings – and for everyone who says they won’t watch the NFL because players kneel during the anthem, there are others who say they won’t watch the NFL because Colin Kaepernick remains unsigned – after what we saw in Week 3. It was a great Sunday of football and still the main story was what players did during the national anthem. And people tuned in en masse, as they usually do for the NFL.
As it turns out, a lot of people still watch the NFL despite a vocal minority insisting otherwise. Go figure.
https://sports.yahoo.com/cbs-rating...l&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer
