How could they dishonor our country.

[SHUHoopsFan]

That's not why they are angry. They are angry because black people feel that they suffer injustices and white people are using "patriotism" as their less racist method of disagreement.

Is social injustice only worth fighting for during 1 minute per week? These are NFL players who could get on TV any time they want to address the issue. It was a poorly calculated time to protest. The intentions were great, but doing it during the national anthem was a bad choice because it offended people. You don't make progress with injustices by insulting people as Cam Newton just found out. You will find a ton of people of all races who agree we need to eliminate social injustices. However I'm sure many of those same people will say the right thing to do is stand for the anthem. 2 wrongs don't make a right.

 

[Halldan1]

Trump applauds Pence for walking out of football game
By Mark Moore

October 9, 2017 | 8:16am | Updated

President Trump said Vice President Pence is getting “great praise” for walking out of an NFL game after some San Francisco 49ers’ players kneeled during the national anthemand acknowledged the trip was “long planned.”

“The trip by @VP Pence was long planned. He is receiving great praise for leaving game after the players showed such disrespect for country!,” Trump wrote on Twitter on Monday.

SEE ALSO
Pence ditches Colts game after 49ers players kneel during anthem

Pence left Sunday’s game between the Indianapolis Colts and the 49ers moments after the playing of the national anthem and quickly posted a tweet saying, “I left today’s Colts game because @POTUS and I will not dignify any event that disrespects our soldiers, our Flag, or our National Anthem.”

But some — including reporters in Pence’s media detail — questioned whether the walkout was a political stunt after the journalists were told to remain in the van at the stadium in Indianapolis because the vice president might make an “early departure.”

Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.) called it a “multi-million dollar political stunt paid for by taxpayers.”

Government watchdog group Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, which slammed Pence’s action on Sunday, questioned Trump’s tweet about the “long-planned” trip.

“Is he saying the stunt was long planned? As in, “planned to waste hundreds of thousands of tax dollars on flights before the Price scandal”?” the group posted on its Twitter account moments after Trump tweeted.

Pence, the former governor of Indiana, traveled to Indianapolis from Las Vegas where the vice president spent Saturday taking part in ceremonies honoring the victims of the shootings.

After the game, he headed to California for a number of Republican fund-raisers.

 

[cernjSHU]

Seems like most people take a stand one way or another on this issue. With the Prez or with the players or with the flag or with the right to protest. The sides in this debate have been compromised by the President who should never comment or get involved in this issue.

Seoond, while police brutality is something we Should stamp out and be against, we must recognize the difficult job police have when confronting a situation. The video posted by another poster is an excellent examples of the split second decision to be made. Therefore, when a person is not compliant with an officer’s commands, this heightens the tension and the fear an officer faces. Which will give rise to a greater probability to put the officer in fear of his safety and using his weapon.

Third, when there is a police shooting, there should not be A rush to condemn the shooting until evidence warrants it. Also, when there is evidence, the blue wall should not go up to protect that bad Apple. What needs to happen is better communication between the police and the community leaders. That video is an excellent tool to make the community understand what police are facing. At the same time the community may have some legitimate complaints about about police behavior. There needs to be constructive dialogue. Trump just continues to be a divisive force in our nation leading to wounds to being cut deeper and deeper. It’s a shame.

 

[SHUMatt]

Cern, I agree with your entire post. However, BO started the divide between the police and the community. Add the media to the mix and we are where we are today.

 

[Halldan1]

It's a shame this became all about the flag because it's not.

That said the players who are within their rights to protest as they are doing unless instructed otherwise probably could have chosen a better path to air their complaints.

Their message is being lost under the confusion that they are being disrespectful to the flag.

 

[Halldan1]

Trump applauds Pence for walking out of football game
By Mark Moore

October 9, 2017 | 8:16am | Updated

President Trump said Vice President Pence is getting “great praise” for walking out of an NFL game after some San Francisco 49ers’ players kneeled during the national anthemand acknowledged the trip was “long planned.”

“The trip by @VP Pence was long planned. He is receiving great praise for leaving game after the players showed such disrespect for country!,” Trump wrote on Twitter on Monday.

SEE ALSO
Pence ditches Colts game after 49ers players kneel during anthem

Pence left Sunday’s game between the Indianapolis Colts and the 49ers moments after the playing of the national anthem and quickly posted a tweet saying, “I left today’s Colts game because @POTUS and I will not dignify any event that disrespects our soldiers, our Flag, or our National Anthem.”

But some — including reporters in Pence’s media detail — questioned whether the walkout was a political stunt after the journalists were told to remain in the van at the stadium in Indianapolis because the vice president might make an “early departure.”

Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.) called it a “multi-million dollar political stunt paid for by taxpayers.”

Government watchdog group Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, which slammed Pence’s action on Sunday, questioned Trump’s tweet about the “long-planned” trip.

“Is he saying the stunt was long planned? As in, “planned to waste hundreds of thousands of tax dollars on flights before the Price scandal”?” the group posted on its Twitter account moments after Trump tweeted.

Pence, the former governor of Indiana, traveled to Indianapolis from Las Vegas where the vice president spent Saturday taking part in ceremonies honoring the victims of the shootings.

After the game, he headed to California for a number of Republican fund-raisers.

 

[HALL85]

View embedded media

Irony is ironic....

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

It's a shame this became all about the flag because it's not.

That said the players who are within their rights to protest as they are doing unless instructed otherwise probably could have chosen a better path to air their complaints.

Their message is being lost under the confusion that they are being disrespectful to the flag.

I wouldn't say they are within their right. Jerry Jones just said you do anything to disrespect the flag you aren't playing.

You are spot on the message is completely lost. They say they want to use their platform for good, but the only time you see them doing something is during the anthem. You don't see them doing anything after a sack, a touchdown, etc. You saw them on the news only a couple days after Trump's remarks and that was it. They spend more time fighting the fact they are not protesting the flag than they do fighting against police brutality and social injustice.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Irony is ironic....

Isn't it very ironic. The same group of individuals fighting for social injustice was 100% silent regarding Cam Newton's comments.

 

[Halldan1]

I wouldn't say they are within their right. Jerry Jones just said you do anything to disrespect the flag you aren't playing.

They are within their rights unless as I noted instructed otherwise. Some teams have not been warned there will be penalties for not standing and some have.

 

[Merge]

Isn't it very ironic. The same group of individuals fighting for social injustice was 100% silent regarding Cam Newton's comments.

Cam said something really stupid.
They are protesting systemic oppression against black people.
Why do you think you need to hear their voice equally on both of those issues (even if you disagree with the premise) ?

I recommend reading Reid's op-ed. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/opinion/colin-kaepernick-football-protests.html
They feel something, and may not understand the best way to communicate it... No one says when the right time is, only that it is never the right time.

White people telling them "it's not the right time" to protest are part of the problem. You want them to respect the flag?
Don't talk about "both sides" being bad when it comes to white nationalists. Condemn them.
Don't call them sons of bitches
Don't turn your back and walk way from their protest.
LISTEN TO THEM.
Explain your side about the why kneeing during the anthem offends you.
Explain that you see their protest and understand that they feel their country is failing them.
Explain how you will do everything you can to restore their trust and pride in America for them and the millions of Americans who feel oppressed
Explain that you want them to stand for the anthem, but you want them to so after they trust our leadership again and that they are working to make us all united.

Pence walking out was a pathetic stunt showing a failure of leadership that ONLY seeks to further divide the country on this issue.

 

[omega83]

Unfortunately, racism is part of the fabric of America. Because of this, some people confuse the protest of racism with the protest of America.

 

[Belluno]

Pence walking out was a pathetic stunt showing a failure of leadership that ONLY seeks to further divide the country on this issue.[/QUOTE]

Bless these players for bringing us together, just as the Obamas did. Curse you, Pence, for beating them at their own game.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

White people telling them "it's not the right time" to protest are part of the problem. You want them to respect the flag?

Please tell me you know there are more than white people telling them it's not the right time to protest. Or is it only the white people who offend people?

 

[Merge]

Please tell me you know there are more than white people telling them it's not the right time to protest. Or is it only the white people who offend people?

Reading the polling on the issue and looking at the public figures who are the most vocal against them- Not saying it is exclusively white people but the people telling them not to protest are generally white.

 

[Merge]

Pence walking out was a pathetic stunt showing a failure of leadership that ONLY seeks to further divide the country on this issue.

Bless these players for bringing us together, just as the Obamas did. Curse you, Pence, for beating them at their own game.[/QUOTE]

Exactly... "beating them" ...
How can we unite if our leadership's goal is to "beat the other side"
and Obama's response to the protest was leaps and bounds beyond what we have seen from the current admin.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Reading the polling on the issue and looking at the public figures who are the most vocal against them- Not saying it is exclusively white people but the people telling them not to protest are generally white.

I'm done. I can't imagine what would be said if a cop used the logic, based on polling these crimes are generally committed by these type of people. That's exactly what the fight is against.

 

[Merge]

I'm done. I can't imagine what would be said if a cop used the logic, based on polling these crimes are generally committed by these type of people. That's exactly what the fight is against.

Are you saying it is not mostly white people telling black people that it's not the right time to protest? I'm not really sure what you objected to in my post?

What I see is mostly black athletes protesting against racial oppression, and mostly white people saying they aren't doing it right.
Am I wrong?

 

[Belluno]

Are you saying it is not mostly white people telling black people that it's not the right time to protest? I'm not really sure what you objected to in my post?

What I see is mostly black athletes protesting against racial oppression, and mostly white people saying they aren't doing it right.
Am I wrong?

Well, yes, you are. Clearly, the right time to protest for most people is not during the National Anthem in a foreign country which was the biggest colonial power ever, while wearing the uniform of their employer on the job. You apparently have expanded the term to mean no protest should ever be allowed. Nobody ever suggested that to my knowledge, it being a matter of time and place. BTW this weekend Chiraq saw its 500th murder. I have no idea of how many were committed by cops because of a burnt out tail light, nor do I know the number killed by marauding white racists; I'm sure BLM and their NFL cohorts are on top of it, planning a massive protest on their own time for a change.
We just finished eight years of an administration whose only goal was to beat the other side.
Please don't expect me to listen to the stammering, halting speech of a man whose only desire was to foment division in this country

 

[Merge]

Well, yes, you are.

How am I wrong? Are you saying that black athletes are not protesting, or are you saying it is not mostly white people telling them when they can't protest?
Which part is wrong about that?

Clearly, the right time to protest for most people is not during the National Anthem in a foreign country which was the biggest colonial power ever, while wearing the uniform of their employer on the job.

When IS The appropriate time to protest? To be completely honest, I think most people would say that they should never protest because of ____ (fill in your own blank - in your case it was because there is violence in Chicago. In ShuHoopsFan's case it was because they don't also protest cam Newton in the same manner)

We just finished eight years of an administration whose only goal was to beat the other side.

I was critical of Obama in some of his responses on some race issues, but that is silly saying his only goal was to beat the other side. Republicans and Democrats both have a back and forth that has been a part of politics since the creation of the parties. Obama wasn't much different than most others.

Please don't expect me to listen to the stammering, halting speech of a man whose only desire was to foment division in this country

I mean... you realize you are describing Trump here right?

 

[SoOrange84]

How am I wrong? Are you saying that black athletes are not protesting, or are you saying it is not mostly white people telling them when they can't protest?
Which part is wrong about that?



When IS The appropriate time to protest? To be completely honest, I think most people would say that they should never protest because of ____ (fill in your own blank - in your case it was because there is violence in Chicago. In ShuHoopsFan's case it was because they don't also protest cam Newton in the same manner)



I was critical of Obama in some of his responses on some race issues, but that is silly saying his only goal was to beat the other side. Republicans and Democrats both have a back and forth that has been a part of politics since the creation of the parties. Obama wasn't much different than most others.



I mean... you realize you are describing Trump here right?

Trump to his credit turned what was a non-story into front page headlines, which drew the public attention away from his inability to get his healthcare reform agenda passed yet again.

What is more important in the overall scheme of things, a group of football players protesting what they perceive as racial injustice or a President not delivering on his campaign promises?

 

[HALL85]

The fact is the vast majority of people (black, white, purple, etc) are repulsed when they see a video of a police officer shooting or intentionally abusing someone. And most polls I've seen support measures like body cams, etc. IMO CK has done more harm to these reforms because his actions deflected the attention to a battle of respecting the flag and what it represents. I'm not biting on Merge's "white people" bullshit.

 

[Muggsy Blue]

The Giants lost yesterday and The Jets have won three in a row.

 

[lr591902]

• Time for this to be moved. It is no longer a sports story and people are starting to argue their political views.
• This situation is fairly easy. No one wants police brutality and no one wants people to disrespect the flag. They are two separate issues and should not be aggregated together.

 

[Halldan1]

Let's keep it here if we can get it back on track. If not I will do as lr591902 notes.

 

[Halldan1]

ESPN suspends Jemele Hill for social media ‘violation’
By Mark W. Sanchez

October 9, 2017

Strike 2, and she’s benched.

ESPN suspended Jemele Hill on Monday, the network announced, for two weeks “for a second violation of our social media guidelines.”

ESPN spokesman Josh Krulewitz signaled that Hill’s offending tweet involved suggesting fans boycott Cowboys advertisers if they were upset Jerry Jones told his players they would stand for the national anthem or be benched.

“This play always work,” she wrote Sunday. “Change happens when advertisers are impacted. If you feel strongly about JJ’s statement, boycott his advertisers.”

On Monday, her last tweet read: “Just so we’re clear: I’m not advocating a NFL boycott. But an unfair burden has been put on players in Dallas & Miami w/ anthem directives.”

Hill was in the middle of an ESPN firestorm last month, when the White House called for her firing for calling President Trump a white supremacist on Twitter. ESPN had a sitdown meeting with her, where the “SC6” co-host apologized for the forum but not the message.

“She previously acknowledged letting her colleagues and company down with an impulsive tweet,” ESPN said in a statement. “In the aftermath, all employees were reminded of how individual tweets may reflect negatively on ESPN and that such actions would have consequences. Hence this decision.”

 

[Seton75]

Isn't it very ironic. The same group of individuals fighting for social injustice was 100% silent regarding Cam Newton's comments.

The same Jerry Jones who doesn't want to embarrass his team let's sexual abuser play for him.

Like it or not, nothing these guys can do would get the pub this gets.

And do Jerry Jones new rules need union approval?

 

[hbkmyr]

And Greg Hardy. You better damn sure stand for the anthem in Jerry world, but domestic abuse is apparently ok.

 

[Seton75]

For those old enough to remember, who thinks trump suspends Hershel walker if he knelt while on trumps team. Lofl

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

The same Jerry Jones who doesn't want to embarrass his team let's sexual abuser play for him.

Like it or not, nothing these guys can do would get the pub this gets.

And do Jerry Jones new rules need union approval?

The total thing from top to bottom is hypocrisy.

It only gets publicity because it offends people. We live in a media cycle where if there is an opportunity to celebrate something or watch lives destroyed, the news media will pick up the coverage of lives being destroyed every single time. The good thing as a non football fan is the game is going to hell regardless of this controversy. Parents are keeping their kids out of the sport because of injury. Football will be synonomis with boxing in that both once great sports are left with fewer participants as people get smarter about head injuries.

I believe the rule already has approval. The league is paid to stand for the anthem. All teams not standing should give the money back to the people paying them to stand.

 

[hallgrad80]

ESPN suspends Jemele Hill for social media ‘violation’
By Mark W. Sanchez

October 9, 2017

Strike 2, and she’s benched.

ESPN suspended Jemele Hill on Monday, the network announced, for two weeks “for a second violation of our social media guidelines.”

ESPN spokesman Josh Krulewitz signaled that Hill’s offending tweet involved suggesting fans boycott Cowboys advertisers if they were upset Jerry Jones told his players they would stand for the national anthem or be benched.

“This play always work,” she wrote Sunday. “Change happens when advertisers are impacted. If you feel strongly about JJ’s statement, boycott his advertisers.”

On Monday, her last tweet read: “Just so we’re clear: I’m not advocating a NFL boycott. But an unfair burden has been put on players in Dallas & Miami w/ anthem directives.”

Hill was in the middle of an ESPN firestorm last month, when the White House called for her firing for calling President Trump a white supremacist on Twitter. ESPN had a sitdown meeting with her, where the “SC6” co-host apologized for the forum but not the message.

“She previously acknowledged letting her colleagues and company down with an impulsive tweet,” ESPN said in a statement. “In the aftermath, all employees were reminded of how individual tweets may reflect negatively on ESPN and that such actions would have consequences. Hence this decision.”

I'm trying to decide which organization is the most spineless, the NCAA or ESPN. Probably a tie for first place between both.

 

[Pirate64]

Yes, the players have a right to kneel for the anthem .
And we have a right to boo the Seton Hall Basketball players when they don't play well.
But we don't do it because it is not nice, nor the right thing to do.
There are certain behaviors which , though allowed, are just not done.
Disrespecting our patriotic traditions - like taking a knee when the anthem is played -are in that category.

 

[chickenbox]

Why do people get so offended by others doing what they perceive to be unpatriotic? No one is telling them they can't behave patriotically. To me it screams insecurity. They aren't comfortable enough to merely abide by their own convictions, they also need to force others to abide by them too.

 

[hbkmyr]

Equally illuminating was the support Vernon received on Monday. Vernon, defensive tackle Damon Harrison, linebacker Mark Herzlich and practice squad offensive lineman Adam Bisnowaty spent Monday afternoon in Newark meeting with police officers and high school football players.

"It was a very honest conversation about policing, how involved it is and how challenging it is to be a police officer," said Sgt. Levi Holmes, who is the president of the Bronze Shields. "The whole taking a knee situation, we wanted to give a different spin on it because we understand that the popular police opinion is negative about people taking knees. We wanted to let them know that we don't feel that way. We understand that they're taking a knee to object to the different injustices that happen in the country."

 

[Pirata]

This was Kaapernick's words explaining what and why he is protesting.

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color," Kaepernick told NFL Media in an exclusive interview after the game. "To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."

The facts and stats about cop killings do not readily support his protest.

When everyone says, it is not just about the cop killings, it is bigger than that, then I say that he made a statement, realized it was unfounded and has back peddled to broaden his protest.

Personally, I respect Mother Teresa, MLK, Ghandi, et al much more for their
protest of social injustice.

 

[Halldan1]

Mike Ditka sounds off on anthem protests: ‘Go to another country’
By Post Sports Desk

October 10, 2017 | 2:05am

Mike Ditka may want to stick to football after his most recent interview.

The legendary Bears coach, who was a guest of NBC’s Jim Gray during the Bears-Vikings game on “Monday Night Football,” was asked little about Chicago rookie quarterback Mitch Trubisky but instead weighed in on anthem protests going in the NFL.

Ditka isn’t a fan and doesn’t see a reason for them either.

“There has been no oppression in the last 100 years that I know of,” Ditka said. “Now maybe I’m not watching it as carefully as other people. I think the opportunity is there for everybody — race, religion, creed, color, nationality. If you want to work, if you want to try, if you want to put effort in, you can accomplish anything.”

As for the players who decide to bring awareness to issues they believe are important by kneeling for “The Star-Spangled Banner” before a game, Ditka said that is not the time or the place to invoke their right to protest.

“I’m not condemning anybody or criticizing anybody. Respect the game. Play the game,” Ditka said. “When you want to protest, protest when the game is over. Football has been so good to these guys. Enjoy it. Have fun with it.

“I don’t think it’s the stage for protests, I’m sorry.”

The Super Bowl-winning coach, who is a supporter of President Trump, added that if he still were coaching, he would not tolerate his players protesting during the national anthem.

“Yes, I don’t care who you are, how much money you make,” Ditka said. “If you don’t respect our country, then you shouldn’t be in this country playing football. Go to another country and play football. If you had to go somewhere else and try to play the sport, you wouldn’t have a job. … If you don’t respect this flag and this country, then you don’t know what this is all about. I would say, adios.”

 

[SHUSource]

Mike Ditka sounds off on anthem protests: ‘Go to another country’
By Post Sports Desk

October 10, 2017 | 2:05am

Mike Ditka may want to stick to football after his most recent interview.

The legendary Bears coach, who was a guest of NBC’s Jim Gray during the Bears-Vikings game on “Monday Night Football,” was asked little about Chicago rookie quarterback Mitch Trubisky but instead weighed in on anthem protests going in the NFL.

Ditka isn’t a fan and doesn’t see a reason for them either.

“There has been no oppression in the last 100 years that I know of,” Ditka said. “Now maybe I’m not watching it as carefully as other people. I think the opportunity is there for everybody — race, religion, creed, color, nationality. If you want to work, if you want to try, if you want to put effort in, you can accomplish anything.”

As for the players who decide to bring awareness to issues they believe are important by kneeling for “The Star-Spangled Banner” before a game, Ditka said that is not the time or the place to invoke their right to protest.

“I’m not condemning anybody or criticizing anybody. Respect the game. Play the game,” Ditka said. “When you want to protest, protest when the game is over. Football has been so good to these guys. Enjoy it. Have fun with it.

“I don’t think it’s the stage for protests, I’m sorry.”

The Super Bowl-winning coach, who is a supporter of President Trump, added that if he still were coaching, he would not tolerate his players protesting during the national anthem.

“Yes, I don’t care who you are, how much money you make,” Ditka said. “If you don’t respect our country, then you shouldn’t be in this country playing football. Go to another country and play football. If you had to go somewhere else and try to play the sport, you wouldn’t have a job. … If you don’t respect this flag and this country, then you don’t know what this is all about. I would say, adios.”

Good to see Constitutional and Civil Rights scholar Mike Ditka flexing his intellectual muscles...

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Why do people get so offended by others doing what they perceive to be unpatriotic? No one is telling them they can't behave patriotically. To me it screams insecurity. They aren't comfortable enough to merely abide by their own convictions, they also need to force others to abide by them too.

It's a matter of principle and respect for others. It's that plain and simple. You do it out of respect. You're taught to get up and say hello when your grandparents walk in the house as a kid. You're taught to flush the toilet after you use it. You're taught to behave in Church. If you don't do these things you will offend people. Is it because those others are insecure? Absolutely not. It's because there is simply a right and a wrong. If you can't do the right thing you offend people. Everybody wants respect but it seems today fewer and fewer are willing to give it.

 

[Merge]

Everybody wants respect but it seems today fewer and fewer are willing to give it.

Who decided taking a knee was disrespectful?

Yes, people are taught that they should stand for the anthem based on the same code that says you shouldn't be carried flat, printed on napkins, worn as apparel etc.. .You could walk around any pre game festivities at any stadium and see violations of flag code all over the place... but the guy kneeling is the one they get pissed off about. Not sitting as the protest originally started, but kneeling after speaking with someone who served as a compromise as a way to show respect to those who have served but also continue a protest against what they believe to be systematic oppression.

The flag is being used as the tool for people who disagree with the protest to get angry about it, I don't think the outrage really has anything to do with the flag... If it did, people public in general would actually care about flag code (which they don't)

 

[Vegas pj]

Has nothing to do with the flag? Cliff note version: Lets see, the flag is a symbol. The protest started during the crowd turning toward the flag and the playing of the national anthem. If it had nothing to do with the flag, then these morons could have "protested" some other way and/or at some other time.