How could they dishonor our country.

[Pirata]

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0141854
"There is no relationship between county-level racial bias in police shootings and crime rates (even race-specific crime rates), meaning that the racial bias observed in police shootings in this data set is not explainable as a response to local-level crime rates."

Are you familiar with what Bayesian implies?

From the same link:

"Understanding the source of racial bias in police shootings is difficult to do from county-level data, as the ecological inference fallacy can potentially obscure any results [39]. County-level data are far too coarse to use to reliably tease apart the conditions that drive racial bias in police shootings; "

"More detailed analysis of the data is needed. In the current analysis, county-specific risk ratios are estimated. In the future, these estimates could be extended in a Bayesian framework to include estimates unique to police departments, as clustered into counties, as clustered into states."

"Ecological regression on county-level characteristics is plagued by difficulties theoretically [39, 51]; issues with data quality make it even harder to use county-level data. In the analysis of county-level predictors of racial bias in police shootings conducted in this paper, some of the data were low quality. Notably, the crime data may be biased by the reporting practices of the police, and Florida, Alabama, and Illinois failed to fully release data, which led to the use Bayesian imputation for counties in these states."

"is driven by race-specific crime rates (at least as measured by the proxies of assault- and weapons-related arrest rates in 2012)."

 

[Merge]

Merge, if blacks commit more violent crimes (which is factually true), of course that is going to be reflected in the numbers when you're looking at proportions.

When searched by police, white people are more like to have contraband than black people.
Which race do you think is searched more often? Of course it will be white people right? Since that is what the data shows is the case?

https://www.justice.gov/sites/defau...5/03/04/ferguson_police_department_report.pdf
"African Americans are more than twice as likely as white drivers to be searched during vehicle stops even after controlling for non-race based variables such as the reason the vehicle stop was initiated, but are found in possession of contraband 26% less often than white drivers, suggesting officers are impermissibly considering race as a factor when determining whether to search."

https://chicagopatf.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/PATF_Final_Report_Executive_Summary_4_13_16-1.pdf
black and Hispanic drivers were searched approximately four times as often as white drivers, yet CPD’s own data show that contraband was found on white drivers twice as often as black and Hispanic drivers.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/25/us/racial-disparity-traffic-stops-driving-black.html
officers were more likely to stop black drivers for no discernible reason. And they were more likely to use force if the driver was black, even when they did not encounter physical resistance.

I am not saying I am 100% correct and you are all wrong, what I am saying is that I have seen enough to see cause for a black person in America to feel that you are treated unfairly.

From there we look at a case by case basis.
Is this actually happening? Are we doing enough to ensure the bad police officers are held liable? Are prosecutors effective in indictments of police officers when they work hand in hand normally or should we have special prosecutors when police are involved? etc... Those questions are not unreasonable, and I think if we had a president who said he was willing to look into that then these protests would be over quickly.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

When searched by police, white people are more like to have contraband than black people.
Which race do you think is searched more often? Of course it will be white people right? Since that is what the data shows is the case?

https://www.justice.gov/sites/defau...5/03/04/ferguson_police_department_report.pdf
"African Americans are more than twice as likely as white drivers to be searched during vehicle stops even after controlling for non-race based variables such as the reason the vehicle stop was initiated, but are found in possession of contraband 26% less often than white drivers, suggesting officers are impermissibly considering race as a factor when determining whether to search."

https://chicagopatf.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/PATF_Final_Report_Executive_Summary_4_13_16-1.pdf
black and Hispanic drivers were searched approximately four times as often as white drivers, yet CPD’s own data show that contraband was found on white drivers twice as often as black and Hispanic drivers.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/25/us/racial-disparity-traffic-stops-driving-black.html
officers were more likely to stop black drivers for no discernible reason. And they were more likely to use force if the driver was black, even when they did not encounter physical resistance.

I am not saying I am 100% correct and you are all wrong, what I am saying is that I have seen enough to see cause for a black person in America to feel that you are treated unfairly.

From there we look at a case by case basis.
Is this actually happening? Are we doing enough to ensure the bad police officers are held liable? Are prosecutors effective in indictments of police officers when they work hand in hand normally or should we have special prosecutors when police are involved? etc... Those questions are not unreasonable, and I think if we had a president who said he was willing to look into that then these protests would be over quickly.

I wouldn't be so quick to blame the president. If it was a quick fix, his predecessor would have taken care of it before this president was sworn in.

Here's a few more questions that are not unreasonable. Was this person neglected as a child? Did this person have a mom and a dad around to teach right or wrong? Did people take on the responsibility of teaching this person right and wrong? The family dynamic in this country sucks. You want to talk about social injustices, how about the number of people who don't take responsibilities for their kids. It happens in all communities, white, black, rich, poor, etc. I'm curious if they have stats on those numbers you had somehow based on family dynamic.

 

[cernjSHU]

One needs to be careful Using statistics to back a hypothesis that the crimina justice system is racially biased. Everything is so fact sensitive that stats are often misleading. For example, statistics about police shootings of unarmed people do not tell the whole story as to whether it was justified shooting or not. Obviously, it is a tragedy. However, a police officer encountering a person who is not following the police officers commands to show his hands and then the person reaches down towards his waist, the police officer is justifiably going to be in fear for his safety and fire his weapon. Yet that is a stat that is going to be used against the police.

I am not saying that there aren’t bad cops as well. However, when people start painting broad strokes and using stats to back up those broad strokes is where we get into misleading conclusions. This is a difficult area where oversimplification leads to wrong conclusions.

 

[Pirata]

"Ferguson", the play is coming to Broadway.

Actor readings of the Grand Jury testimony.

 

[HALL85]

One needs to be careful Using statistics to back a hypothesis that the crimina justice system is racially biased. Everything is so fact sensitive that stats are often misleading. For example, statistics about police shootings of unarmed people do not tell the whole story as to whether it was justified shooting or not. Obviously, it is a tragedy. However, a police officer encountering a person who is not following the police officers commands to show his hands and then the person reaches down towards his waist, the police officer is justifiably going to be in fear for his safety and fire his weapon. Yet that is a stat that is going to be used against the police.

I am not saying that there aren’t bad cops as well. However, when people start painting broad strokes and using stats to back up those broad strokes is where we get into misleading conclusions. This is a difficult area where oversimplification leads to wrong conclusions.

We've fallen into this trap of using an incident or a statistic to advance a specific narrative, rather than actually work on real solutions.

I had the opportunity this weekend to participate in a tactical weapons class (defending your self/home with a gun). I'm not a gun owner, but have been to a range about a half-dozen times in my life. I mention this because one of the instructors was ex-SP and led SWAT teams, the other was ex-military with 3 tours in Iraq. One shared that most of the incidental discharges (BTW, no gun discharges "incidentally" on it's own) at the range were by police. Yes, that's right. I was initially surprised by that, but most local police spend very little time at a range practicing and what they do is mostly target practice (because we know most criminals with a gun usually stand directly in front of you, not moving in good lighting!). So they carry around this gun, which really requires repetition, dry fire practice, etc., and we ask them to be perfect every situation.

What I learned? I am always respectful to any officer when asked to comply, but if I ever see one with a gun upholstered, I will take extra precaution. What's the solution? Obviously training and that takes money. This outfit offers tactical training for police departments but no one has a budget for it, much less a budget for their officers to go to a range and practice every two weeks, etc.. Would the public sign off on higher property taxes to significantly improve the training and weapon preparedness of the police? I do support body-cams, but I would rather have police that are proficient with their weapon in multiple situations, than having a body-cam movie getting shot with an accidental discharge. Seems simple, but we would rather demonize law enforcement or use the fact of the day to support a side of the argument.

For the record, I will be filing for a weapons permit and plan to purchase a pistol and rifle/shot gun for protection (hopefully that I will never have to use). It took a while for me to come to this decision, because it's all about committing the time to practice and be as proficient as I can (at home or at the range).

 

[knowknow456]

For the record, I will be filing for a weapons permit and plan to purchase a pistol and rifle/shot gun for protection (hopefully that I will never have to use). It took a while for me to come to this decision,

What changed your mind?

 

[Merge]

This outfit offers tactical training for police departments but no one has a budget for it, much less a budget for their officers to go to a range and practice every two weeks, etc.. Would the public sign off on higher property taxes to significantly improve the training and weapon preparedness of the police?

I'd think so. We already pay for them to attend a training academy. Why wouldn't we pay to ensure their training is adequate? I have no idea what training they go through, but if they need more. Fine by me.

For the record, I will be filing for a weapons permit and plan to purchase a pistol and rifle/shot gun for protection (hopefully that I will never have to use). It took a while for me to come to this decision, because it's all about committing the time to practice and be as proficient as I can (at home or at the range).

I'm curious what changed for you that you are looking to get one now? Has crime increased in your area, or just something you have been thinking about for a while? Do you plan on keeping them loaded? locked up?

Fwiw, I am not anti-gun but my wife and I do ask other parents if they have guns in their house and if they are locked up before my kids can go for a play date at someone else's house. There was one time where the answer was they do have guns, and not locked up and we said no. Incredibly awkward and probably a bit over protective but a decision we made after hearing about accidental shootings from kids finding unlocked guns.

I haven't ever looked into getting one myself because I figure by the time I can get it out of whatever storage system I deemed safe for my kids, it will probably be too late.

 

[HALL85]

I'd think so. We already pay for them to attend a training academy. Why wouldn't we pay to ensure their training is adequate? I have no idea what training they go through, but if they need more. Fine by me.



I'm curious what changed for you that you are looking to get one now? Has crime increased in your area, or just something you have been thinking about for a while? Do you plan on keeping them loaded? locked up?

Fwiw, I am not anti-gun but my wife and I do ask other parents if they have guns in their house and if they are locked up before my kids can go for a play date at someone else's house. There was one time where the answer was they do have guns, and not locked up and we said no. Incredibly awkward and probably a bit over protective but a decision we made after hearing about accidental shootings from kids finding unlocked guns.

I haven't ever looked into getting one myself because I figure by the time I can get it out of whatever storage system I deemed safe for my kids, it will probably be too late.

I guess I would summarize my reasons as follows:
1- More and more of my peers social network have become gun owners and their rationale is similar to mine.
2- I live in a low crime area that's statistically is about the same. However, I do know a number of people in law-enforcement and DA's, who have shared trends that are concerning. Primarily gangs and crimes as a result of drug use. I see the stats on heroin and opioid use and there is an increase in crime that supports finding those habits. And it's going to get worse, a lot worse.
3- My kids are grown and out of the house so I don't have to worry about the risk of children or their friends. Even now, I would never keep a gun loaded or not in the safe. That's just irresponsible.
4- Gut feel. The contention and tenor in some areas in this country is troublesome to me. Social media is enabling disruptive forces to fan the flames for their own selfish gains.
5- My sense is that it is only going to get harder to get a gun as a first time purchaser. Better now than later.

I never had an interest in hunting. Never interested in being a gun collector. As much fun as it was to just go to the range and target shoot, it is not a hobby I found great interest in.

 

[Hall-line-forever]

Halldan1. Commercial break. Just curious.

Is this the longest running and/or longest responded-to thread in PirateCrew history??

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Long way to go to catch Erin Andrews thread.

 

[HALL85]

And just when we think that no one cares and the racial divide is insurmountable, we have a moment like this....

https://www.nhl.com/news/new-jersey-devils-fans-help-out-national-anthem-singer/c-292135038

Garden Staters get our fair share of jokes, but a proud moment to be a native (and also a Devils fan.

 

[Pirata]

Pete, are you going to Heritage Guild?

 

[HALL85]

Pete, are you going to Heritage Guild?

John, no. It was a class in Flemington.I have been to Heritage a few times though.

 

[Pirata]

Do you plan on keeping them loaded? locked up?

Fwiw, I am not anti-gun but my wife and I do ask other parents if they have guns in their house and if they are locked up before my kids can go for a play date at someone else's house. There was one time where the answer was they do have guns, and not locked up and we said no. Incredibly awkward and probably a bit over protective but a decision we made after hearing about accidental shootings from kids finding unlocked guns.

I haven't ever looked into getting one myself because I figure by the time I can get it out of whatever storage system I deemed safe for my kids, it will probably be too late.

It is sad when you think about how many people, especially kids get shot with guns that "weren't loaded"

Equally sad is kids getting shot by stray bullets. Seems to happen more in the cities then in the burbs.

 

[Pirata]

I guess he thought the delivery lady was oppressing him.

MLB's Bruce Maxwell, who knelt during anthem, is arrested on gun charge

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2017/...-during-anthem-is-arrested-on-gun-charge.html

 

[Pirata]

 

[Merge]

Fair criticism of people who clearly should look in the mirror, but are you saying it is acceptable for people with clean records to kneel while the anthem is playing?

 

[Pirata]

I don't believe I said anything with regard to your question.

 

[Merge]

Right, you didn’t say much if anything so I’m guessing what you are trying to say.

You seem to be implying that they shouldn’t be protesting because they are bad people?

 

[Hall-line-forever]

No. They are whiney people with a specialized skill set where the USA’s free market system pays them accordingly. Try taking your football to Asia Oac , South America, or Europe. See what they would get paid. Nobody cares.

 

[Pirata]

Merge, feel free to interpret it as you see it.

For me it shows a bit of hypocrisy.

Ghandhi once said something to the effect, " Happiness is when your thoughts and your words and your actions are the same".

 

[Merge]

That's fine. Clearly they should be more self aware and address their own demons... but that is a separate issue and not really related to the subject of this thread (the protests) Certainly a distraction, although I don't think the protest becomes more meaningful if the people kneeling have lived a more righteous life than I have, and I don't think it should become less meaningful if they haven't.

 

[HALL85]

That's fine. Clearly they should be more self aware and address their own demons... but that is a separate issue and not really related to the subject of this thread (the protests) Certainly a distraction, although I don't think the protest becomes more meaningful if the people kneeling have lived a more righteous life than I have, and I don't think it should become less meaningful if they haven't.

You wouldn't put any weight on the difference in Jerry Sandusky protesting an issue vs. someone like Colin Powell?

 

[Merge]

You wouldn't put any weight on the difference in Jerry Sandusky protesting an issue vs. someone like Colin Powell?

You stretching my point.

The protest is the protest on its own merits.
If you want to debate the merits, that is fine but the fact that Terrell Suggs took a knee shouldn't change the merits of the protest more than another player who hasn't done the things that Suggs did.

 

[HALL85]

You stretching my point.

The protest is the protest on its own merits.
If you want to debate the merits, that is fine but the fact that Terrell Suggs took a knee shouldn't change the merits of the protest more than another player who hasn't done the things that Suggs did.

No, I'm proving a point. Credibility matters.

 

[Merge]

No, I'm proving a point. Credibility matters.

...

My point is that Suggs kneeling shouldn't change your view of the protest the same way that a pedophile priest shouldn't change how you feel about Jesus.

 

[Pirata]

...

My point is that Suggs kneeling shouldn't change your view of the protest the same way that a pedophile priest shouldn't change how you feel about Jesus.

I agree.

It doesn't change my view of the protest which is that the protest is weak at best.

For the most part, oppression of blacks is self-imposed.

Every other race and ethnicity seems to have overcome the obstacles of making their way in this country.

You can't use the cops killing blacks argument because the numbers just don't support it.

What else you got?

Is there a deep rooted federal government conspiracy to cause black males to abandon the children they father?

Is there a federal law that says we are only allowed one black president per century?

After you gratuitously accuse me of being blind, please present your thesis on the systemic conscious oppression of blacks in 2017.

 

[Merge]

After you gratuitously accuse me of being blind, please present your thesis on the systemic conscious oppression of blacks in 2017.

I showed studies in this thread that black people are searched by police twice as frequently as white people even though white people were found to have contraband on them at twice the rate of black people. I could point to whatever statistics support my thoughts and you will point to the ones that support yours.

We aren't getting anywhere.

This video is old but still sums up my thoughts on the matter.


I personally would have stayed seated as well.