JETS/GIANTS QB'S & THE #1 DRAFT PICK

[dehere23]

I really think John Mara has a lot to do with the current trajectory as well as Chris Mara who is head of player personnel. First they screwed up the new stadium royally. It is one of the worst stadiums in the league. But their bad decisions at GM and unwillingness to change their approach as the NFL has changed have really screwed the Giants. Titles matter but they simply have not gotten it done and the current direction is suspect not because of the coaching staff but because of the talent. They kept Reese too long and now are doing the same with Getty. They have had a few wins with personnel, but not nearly as many as they need and have been outsmarted by many other teams in the league. It is that simple.

Agreed wholeheartedly on the personnel issue. Reese inherited a very good roster, with a top notch coach and very good QB. He also aced his first draft, most of whom not only played but were contributors (and, in some cases, significant ones) during that first Pats Super Bowl run. He benefited from all that for a while, with good reason. But a bit too long.

I think nabbing Beckham also helped his longevity. When they made that pick, it was a bit of a surprise with Nicks and Cruz already in the fold (possibly Manningham as well, I forget). Then Odell came out of the box looking like a generational WR, and everyone pointed to that as a huge positive in Reese's drafting.

 

[Vegas pj]

The Jets are the gift that keeps on giving - at The Book anyway. Jets were -1 1/2 & ov/un 40 1/2. Broncos (who as a Chiefs fan I can't stand. It's bad enough the the Raiders are now here) and over - Yes!
Jets still in running for a top draft choice though. 😂

 

[hallgrad80]

Had to feel sorry for Darnold last night getting sacked six times. Will either NY team ever put together a quality offensive line to protect their QB ?

 

[TomD82]

The Jets are the gift that keeps on giving - at The Book anyway. Jets were -1 1/2 & ov/un 40 1/2. Broncos (who as a Chiefs fan I can't stand. It's bad enough the the Raiders are now here) and over - Yes!
Jets still in running for a top draft choice though. 😂

Vegas,

I thought Denver was a sucker bet last night just like the Giants were last week when they were also favored albeit Giants were home. Boy was I wrong last night. Either way you go against the Jets they do seem to keep giving at the book.

 

[its haLL baLL]

The most valuable thing in football is a good QB on a rookie deal. Lawrence is projected to be better than both Jones and Darnold plus he will be cheaper for longer.

Both teams should drive their QB to the airport if they have the opportunity to draft Lawrence.

 

[SHU_Pirate1]

MetLife Stadium is hideous! It's an architectural eye sore. I've always said it looks like a giant central air-conditioning unit. It's got the esthetics of a Soviet era design. Hard to imagine that it was designed in the modern era when there's been some amazing stadiums created. Crazy that at the time it was the most expensive in history. Giants fans are not only stuck with a team that stinks, we're gonna be stuck with this fugly stadium for a long time.

 

[SHU_Pirate1]

Well as sad as the Jets looked last night in giving away that game they just took the lead in the "Tank for Trevor" sweepstakes. Giants should catch up this week as the Rams should bury them. Wonder what the over/under on Danny's turnovers will be with Aaron Donald breathing down his neck. Conservative guess is 3...wouldn't be surprised if it's up to 5 or 6. Should check the Vegas line on that.

 

[Burnsly]

75% of Danny & Sam's turnovers are a direct result of horrific protection & O line play. You can not clearly evaluate either at this point in their career due to their supporting casts. Lawrence wouldn't be any more effective.

 

[NYShoreGuy]

MetLife Stadium is hideous! It's an architectural eye sore. I've always said it looks like a giant central air-conditioning unit. It's got the esthetics of a Soviet era design. Hard to imagine that it was designed in the modern era when there's been some amazing stadiums created. Crazy that at the time it was the most expensive in history. Giants fans are not only stuck with a team that stinks, we're gonna be stuck with this fugly stadium for a long time.

Tough grader but this era of field surface could be hazardous https://ftw.usatoday.com/2020/10/jets-metlife-stadium-turf-49ers-giants-injuries-timeline

 

[Vegas pj]

Vegas,

I thought Denver was a sucker bet last night just like the Giants were last week when they were also favored albeit Giants were home. Boy was I wrong last night. Either way you go against the Jets they do seem to keep giving at the book.

Betting on either the Jets or Giants this season is a true sucker's bet.

 

[ponyfoot19]

Lawrence being on a rookie contract is a fair point, but at the same time, do you either team being appreciably better next year with Lawrence? They're still likely to be in the mix for a very early pick the following season when there undoubtedly be a "can't miss" qb or two available. If I'm the Giants/Jets and Lawrence is available, you owe to the franchise to see what other teams will offer you for the pick.

 

[SHU_Pirate1]

Tough grader but this era of field surface could be hazardous https://ftw.usatoday.com/2020/10/jets-metlife-stadium-turf-49ers-giants-injuries-timeline

...always tough but fair. In this case with the architectural design by Frank Lloyd Wrong I think it's warranted. Add the history of the field surface to the aesthetics of this oversized central air-conditioning unit and the stadium is a real disaster. A stadium representing NY/NJ deserves better.

 

[TheHall87]

For some perspective, in 1998, Arizona traded down from No. 2 to San Diego which held the No. 3 pick that year. That was the year that Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf were the consensus one-two picks.

In return for trading down, Arizona received three picks, SD's 1998 Nos. 1 and 2 (picks 3 and 33) and SD's No. 1 in 1999, which turned out to be No. 8 overall, plus two players, LB Patrick Sapp and WR/KR Eric Metcalf.

Based on that figure, the baseline for a return (depending on who you're dealing with and the picks they possess) is two No. 1s and a No. 2 (or the equivalent of latter picks, say a No. 3 and No. 5) plus another couple of players or picks.

 

[SHU_Pirate1]

75% of Danny & Sam's turnovers are a direct result of horrific protection & O line play. You can not clearly evaluate either at this point in their career due to their supporting casts. Lawrence wouldn't be any more effective.

No argument at all that both teams have terrible supporting casts. However, special quarterbacks can lift a team. A few examples come to mind. Look at Andrew Luck...poor guy got the stuffing knocked out of him but carried a pretty bad team almost on his own to a playoff team or perennial contender. Take him off those teams and the Colts would be a 2 to 3 win team. A shame that the beating he took shortened his career. Not all of Brady's teams in NE were loaded with talent (great coaching sure!) but he'd always lead the team even when depleted with injuries to win. Aaron Rodgers didn't always have great talent but always put them in a position to win as well.

Never been a believer in Danny Dimes and from day 1 saw him as a middle of the pack at best...maybe even a backup QB type talent. Nice kid and tough, just don't think he's that good. He couldn't even will his college team to a 500 record. Darnold really surprised me. Thought he'd be a lot better. Still see much more upside in Sam than Danny.

 

[Vegas pj]

The Giants are +13 with a total of 48 over/under at The Book. Rams and over = $$$.

 

[SHU_Pirate1]

Vegas, curious what the line would be on turnovers....they take action on everything now. I'm guessing 3+ for Danny. With Aaron Donald in his face I could see a couple of fumbles and at least 1 pick.

 

[Vegas pj]

Prop bets like the one you are referring to are usually only posted for the Super Bowl and sometimes division title games. That said, in these crazy tines, The Book posted props for 3 games this weekend - Chargers, 49ers & Raiders (wonder why? ). The props were for: team to score first, first score (fg/td), total passing yards by each QB, totals rushing yards by a specified running back (1each team), and total receiving yards by a I specified receiver.

Crazy props like who will win the toss, first team to fumble etc are Super Bowl "props" a/k/a "sucker bets". Last year there were 4 pages (legal size) of those type of bets.

 

[Piratz]

Jones and Darnold are good players with tons of potential, IMO. They are playing for dysfunctional organizations. When that happens, you ruin young QB's.

Jones does a lot of things very well, but he is a turnover machine. Some guys cannot rectify that. If he does not, he will fizzle out like many other highly-picked QB's in the history of the NFL. Let's see if it improves. He's only played 16 games now. He has an 84 QBR, 61.5% completion mark, 26:16 TD:INT ratio and 13 fumbles lost. That's 29 TO. Awful. Oh, and he's also been sacked 47 times in 16 games!

Despite the 0-3 record and embarrassment last week, I do think the Giants have something with Joe Judge. Pair him with a like-minded GM and be on your way.

The Jets are a toxic mess with Gase. And that will be what, Darnold's 3rd different HC/OC situation in 4 years? Not exactly what you want for developing a QB.

 

[TomD82]

Things ould get old with Judge real fast with all this losing. The offense is pitiful in the red zone and scoring regardless. The QB is costings games with his turnovers. Only Jamis Winston has more. A better effort today but that is not much especially compared to teams similar the last several years.

 

[flconticello]

I don't think it's fair to judge Jones yet. This is his 3rd offense he's had to learn in 3 years. He has had a putrid line which is starting to show signs of improvement. As such he started playing better 2nd half today. He threw a bad int. where the v ball should have been more to the sideline where only the receiver had a chance. That said, he rushed the throw as he'd been hurried multiple times on the drive. He did a much better job of protecting against fumbles today. Overall I'd just like to see steady improvement as the year goes on. This was just his 16th NFL Start.

 

[flconticello]

BTW can anyone guess who these stats belong to... don't cheat

• YDS
  625
  26th
• TD
  4
  Tied-20th
• INT
  3
  Tied-22nd
• QBR
  30.1
  31st

 

[TomD82]

BTW can anyone guess who these stats belong to... don't cheat

• YDS
  625
  26th
• TD
  4
  Tied-20th
• INT
  3
  Tied-22nd
• QBR
  30.1
  31st

Sam Darnold?

 

[sportsfantatic44]

I don't think it's fair to judge Jones yet. This is his 3rd offense he's had to learn in 3 years. He has had a putrid line which is starting to show signs of improvement. As such he started playing better 2nd half today. He threw a bad int. where the v ball should have been more to the sideline where only the receiver had a chance. That said, he rushed the throw as he'd been hurried multiple times on the drive. He did a much better job of protecting against fumbles today. Overall I'd just like to see steady improvement as the year goes on. This was just his 16th NFL Start.

This is going to be a totally lost year for Jones. The Giants have 0 playmakers on offense. To me, he looks to be regressing but they have such a terrible supporting cast how can we judge him fairly? Giants are just a complete s*** show.

 

[flconticello]

Sam Darnold?

Nope, Dwayne Haskins who most here wanted the giants to draft. BTW

Dwayne Haskins benching: With no Washington advocates, young QB caught in vortex of organizational failure

www.cbssports.com

 

[hallgrad80]

While it’s the players on the field and the head coaches who are generally criticized the most for the results on the field the sorry state of the Giants represents a total organizational failure with the main culprits Mara and Tisch and their choices at who fills the vital GM and head coaching position . Until there is an acceptance by ownership that the way the Giants currently evaluate talent isn’t working and bring in the right people to run the football operations sector this once proud franchise will continue to struggle. It is , in the end analysis , who holds the key leadership positions in any organization that is the key to success or failure .

 

[Burnsly]

Unfortunately Chris Mara is still in charge of player personnel & he's not going anywhere.

 

[TomD82]

It just never ends with this team now. Jones stripped sacked for a TD after a guy goes right by Thomas. This is worse than the 1970s. I cannot stand Dave Gettlemen and John Mara. A George Young and Ernie Acorssi has never be needed more than now .

 

[TomD82]

Terrible what happened to Dak Prescott. And he is playing under the franchise tag so no longer term $ guarantee.

 

[Jerry1992]

Nasty looking injury. Tough to watch. Very unfortunate.

 

[NYShoreGuy]

Who will have more wins on dec 1? Jets, Giants or SHU hoops, likely shu hoops

 

[flconticello]

It just never ends with this team now. Jones stripped sacked for a TD after a guy goes right by Thomas. This is worse than the 1970s. I cannot stand Dave Gettlemen and John Mara. A George Young and Ernie Acorssi has never be needed more than now .

Is agree with you but overall Thomas has played well. That was an awful play and most QB's would have caughed that one up.

 

[NYC Pirate]

Tough day all around. Felt awful for Prescott. That was brutal. It's ridiculous that the NFL plays
on turf and not natural grass. Not sure this particular injury was the result of that, but a grass field
is just softer. I wonder what that stats are with regards to turf vs grass injuries?

The Jets at 0-5 seem to be in way more trouble than the Giants at 0-5. Still it's a disgrace that the NY teams
are a combined 0-10! I haven't watched too much Jets, but they are not competitive at this point. The Giants
have been right there in 4 of the 5 games. At least it has not been boring and embarrassing this season.

We talk about the same things all the time with the Giants. I swear that teams score on their last drive of the first half and the end of game. The OL is just overwhelmed in late game situations albeit by talented players, but its hard to fathom that they can't produce a good result. The defense was really not that good today. The Cowboys were playing with second tier guys on the offensive line and the Giants still could not make a play late, They were relatively bad against the run and they missed some pivotal tackles. The penalties were real momentum changers.

Jones is good and bad and then good and bad again. Tough to be too critical when you are running for your life. Garett was excellent in the first half with the play calls. He also took couple of shots down the field. Fantastic scouting by Judge having the fake FG that should have resulted in a TD. They also thought out of the box on the 2 point conversion throw to Thomas. Speaking of Thomas I am hoping we did not replace Erik Flowers with Erik Flowers? Probably not, but he is not a bookend at this point in his career. Each week it looks more like a talent problem on the field and not a coaching problem. That's the Silver lining.

 

[hallgrad80]

I thought Slayton played very well today and for a fifth round choice pick #171 in the draft was a steal. Best receiver on the team IMO and Jones appears to have confidence in him. Giants still don’t have that true two way TE that the very good teams have and that hurts not only the passing game and leaves Jones without that bailout option when his pocket is collapsing.

Of course the player in the “ trade I’ll never understand “ Leonard Williams had one tackle today .

 

[lloyde dobler]

Tough day all around. Felt awful for Prescott. That was brutal. It's ridiculous that the NFL plays
on turf and not natural grass. Not sure this particular injury was the result of that, but a grass field
is just softer. I wonder what that stats are with regards to turf vs grass injuries?

The Jets at 0-5 seem to be in way more trouble than the Giants at 0-5. Still it's a disgrace that the NY teams
are a combined 0-10! I haven't watched too much Jets, but they are not competitive at this point. The Giants
have been right there in 4 of the 5 games. At least it has not been boring and embarrassing this season.

We talk about the same things all the time with the Giants. I swear that teams score on their last drive of the first half and the end of game. The OL is just overwhelmed in late game situations albeit by talented players, but its hard to fathom that they can't produce a good result. The defense was really not that good today. The Cowboys were playing with second tier guys on the offensive line and the Giants still could not make a play late, They were relatively bad against the run and they missed some pivotal tackles. The penalties were real momentum changers.

Jones is good and bad and then good and bad again. Tough to be too critical when you are running for your life. Garett was excellent in the first half with the play calls. He also took couple of shots down the field. Fantastic scouting by Judge having the fake FG that should have resulted in a TD. They also thought out of the box on the 2 point conversion throw to Thomas. Speaking of Thomas I am hoping we did not replace Erik Flowers with Erik Flowers? Probably not, but he is not a bookend at this point in his career. Each week it looks more like a talent problem on the field and not a coaching problem. That's the Silver lining.

Actually, FieldTurf is softer than grass. If you walk on a brand-new FieldTurf surface, it can be very spongey. Which can be a problem. That’s what the complaints about the brand new field at MetLife Stadium were about. And I’m sure Jerry always has a fresh surface in Dallas.

 

[hallgrad80]

If I remember it correctly the original thought was that artificial turf would benefit the offense primarily the receiving corps because it would allow not only the receivers but also the running backs to not slip or lose their footing when they made their cuts and the field would not get cut up as the game wore on as it did with real turf. Another factor was that it would play better in rain and of course it would provide a cost benefit from less maintenance then grass . Because it was allegedly to provide surer footing it would result in less injuries although some reason studies suggest just the opposite.

 

[lloyde dobler]

The original AstroTurf was basically like playing on concrete. The new-age stuff is nothing like that.

I myself miss watching games in the mud. And as an added bonus, games in the mud on a field with a baseball infield.

I’ve been in the MetLife field many times and was also on the grass field at Lincoln Financial Field in Philly last November and it was impressive how it was in really good condition. It almost looked and felt like being on an artificial surface. But who knows how much work it takes to maintain and even resod it during the season.

 

[Vegas pj]

Who will have more wins on dec 1? Jets, Giants or SHU hoops, likely shu hoops

Not even close - SHU!

 

[NYShoreGuy]

The original AstroTurf was basically like playing on concrete. The new-age stuff is nothing like that.

I myself miss watching games in the mud. And as an added bonus, games in the mud on a field with a baseball infield.

I’ve been in the MetLife field many times and was also on the grass field at Lincoln Financial Field in Philly last November and it was impressive how it was in really good condition. It almost looked and felt like being on an artificial surface. But who knows how much work it takes to maintain and even resod it during the season.

Astroturf was a phenomenon of the 60s and 70s in many multisport stadium builds for venues since razed...playing on it for baseball players led to bad backs and knees, football players if snow or ice had no traction, i believe there was a WR on Bears in early 90s that blew out both knees at the Vet going up for a reception....nothing beats good well kept natural grass/sod fields hard to keep in outdoor change of seasons weather...field turf was supposed to be cutting edge but dont think its all that dependable for athlete health

 

[Piratz]

The Giants don’t have one impact player on defense and offensively the one player who has impact potential is Barkley but has not had a OL in place to enable him to be that impact player and the blame for that lies with management primarily , John Mara, Chris Mara, Gettleman, Reese and Marc Ross.

And this is why they are stuck perpetually in Phase 1 of rebuilding.

I give Judge credit. He’s had this team in striking distance in 3 of 5 games in the final 2 minutes. They just don’t have enough impact players to be consistent enough or play truly complimentary football.

 

[flconticello]

Tough day all around. Felt awful for Prescott. That was brutal. It's ridiculous that the NFL plays
on turf and not natural grass. Not sure this particular injury was the result of that, but a grass field
is just softer. I wonder what that stats are with regards to turf vs grass injuries?

The Jets at 0-5 seem to be in way more trouble than the Giants at 0-5. Still it's a disgrace that the NY teams
are a combined 0-10! I haven't watched too much Jets, but they are not competitive at this point. The Giants
have been right there in 4 of the 5 games. At least it has not been boring and embarrassing this season.

We talk about the same things all the time with the Giants. I swear that teams score on their last drive of the first half and the end of game. The OL is just overwhelmed in late game situations albeit by talented players, but its hard to fathom that they can't produce a good result. The defense was really not that good today. The Cowboys were playing with second tier guys on the offensive line and the Giants still could not make a play late, They were relatively bad against the run and they missed some pivotal tackles. The penalties were real momentum changers.

Jones is good and bad and then good and bad again. Tough to be too critical when you are running for your life. Garett was excellent in the first half with the play calls. He also took couple of shots down the field. Fantastic scouting by Judge having the fake FG that should have resulted in a TD. They also thought out of the box on the 2 point conversion throw to Thomas. Speaking of Thomas I am hoping we did not replace Erik Flowers with Erik Flowers? Probably not, but he is not a bookend at this point in his career. Each week it looks more like a talent problem on the field and not a coaching problem. That's the Silver lining.

I thought Slayton played very well today and for a fifth round choice pick #171 in the draft was a steal. Best receiver on the team IMO and Jones appears to have confidence in him. Giants still don’t have that true two way TE that the very good teams have and that hurts not only the passing game and leaves Jones without that bailout option when his pocket is collapsing.

Of course the player in the “ trade I’ll never understand “ Leonard Williams had one tackle today .

I agree it's a talent problem at this point. Slayton did play well but he is not a franchise #1 receiver. Also when you can't run the ball consistently, teams will play extra DB's instead of LB's which would allow for better cover guys to blanket guys like Engram. Guys like Witten weren't open because they were athletic freaks...they are open because they are more athletic than the LB's. Engram is getting covered by nickel CB's and athletic safeties. I never see him covered by a LB. I think Thomas will be good long term. He had an awful play yesterday which lead to a turnover but overall he is in no way Flowers. We need to continue to improve our running game and it will make the passing game better, but we definitely need a receiver upgrade. Dallas as well as many teams have multiple WR's what would start over most of our receiver corp. Cooper, Lamb or Gallop would likely be our #1 if on the Giants. That would make Slayton better as I think he's better suited as a complimentary receiver not a go to.