Joe Crowley goes DOWN!
- Thread starter Bobbie Solo
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I'm just reading the thread.
You disagreed with that because "He’s not undermining a free press...the press needs to be accountable and they have not.
So... you don't think Trump is undermining the press because they need to be help accountable?
That certainly reads like you are on board with what Trump is doing.
By all means - Correct the record.
He’s not undermining the free press. You’re painting with the broadest of brushes. Two separate issues I’m opining.
1-The MSM news media on the whole has lost the ability to objectively report and their is no one holding them accountable (outside of each other...)
2-Trump has used the bias and sloppiness of the MSM to his advantage.
I wish the MSM would objectively and accurately do their job. I wish Trump did not keep attacking the MSM. Clear?
Russia's goal was to create disruption in the American political system. It wouldn't surprise me if they favored the Democrats this time around.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/07/19/russia-democrats-election-meddling-219020
It is clear that you are unable to differentiate between fake, biased and accurate news. You are not alone but it remains a problem for the nation.
Here is an opinion piece I found interesting. I think I buy it.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/25/opinions/michael-cohen-donald-trump-tape-strategy-zelizer/index.html
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/25/opinions/michael-cohen-donald-trump-tape-strategy-zelizer/index.html
No president should ever say that 5 separate news organizations are the enemy of the people. That's too broad of a brush?
and? Why would that excuse Trump's behavior?
Like if a bank robber stole money from a bank because the banker forgot to lock the vault... we would just say the robber was just taking advantage of the sloppiness of the banker?
Right... So if A doesn't happen are you ok with B still happening?
I’m not condoning what he’s doing. How many times do I need to type that? Just because I understand why he’s doing it, doesn’t mean I condone it. Sheeesssh!
Keep in mind though, that Trump's team had 80+ contacts with Russians and tried to conceal all of them. Russia's involvement wasn't just looking to create a disruption. Even if you don't believe in the collusion aspect of the 2016 campaign, at a minimum they were cultivating the relationships with who they wanted to win and the Trump team felt they could not disclose these discussions for whatever reason.
Russia definitely does want disruption in the American political system and they will play both sides with disinformation as much as possible. It certainly helps their goal when the US president is calling the media fake and the enemy of the people.
Our next president will know better.
Yes you will buy anything on Trump that doesn't mean he is a complete buffoon. The opinion piece has a thought about Trump gleaned off one tape. A tape that he is calm and deliberate in his method about paying off the Playboy model in order to kill a story. This is something that they have done countless of times. The thinking is that he is rational based on an extremely small sampling. Ignoring the multitude of public comments of buffoonery. Yes, Trump is just a genius that he plays this role in public so that he is able to accomplish what needs to be accomplished. This is a fairy tale.
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.
I have heard the same thing directly from a Congressman about Trump. And he is not a supporter.
Yeah, he comes across very methodical in his attempt to violate campaign finance laws.
Well, let's see what can or can't be proven. I'd be shocked and appalled if that was the case.
Doesn't make it right but who is the last president that hasn't violated campaign finance laws?
You’re right. It doesn’t make it ok.
But there is a difference between finding a violation and hearing evidence of someone willingly going along with the violation.
Starting to look like Trump wants to discredit Cohen.
Apparently Cohen is saying that he was in the room when Trump Jr told Trump, who then approved the meeting.
If true, Jr lied to Congress... and Trump himself approved of his son obtaining something illegal from a foreign government, and tried to cover up by dictating Jr’s false statement regarding the purpose of the meeting.
And ... of course he knew. Trump was out before the meeting and talked about a big speech will be coming about Hillary the Monday after the meeting.
I agree he probably knew about it. Getting "dirt" on a political opponent and collusion are two very different things. There needs to be proof that he or his campaign actually coordinated a campaign of interference. To date, there is none. If proven, he should be removed from office. Simple as that.
Getting dirt on a political opponent from the Russian government is not legal.
As far as collusion. Of course we will need more evidence, but just look at the timeline of this.
June 7th - Trump says a major speech about Hillary is coming
June 9th - Don Jr Trump tower meeting
June 15th - DNC e-mails were released by Guccifer 2.0.
If Trump had released his tax returns, and not lied about his campaigns 80 some contacts that they tried to hide, not dictated a false statement for Trump Jr... maybe the above timeline could be considered mere coincidence.
I don't believe in coincidence that much, especially when they tried to hide the truth from the public at every step.
Logan Act:
Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.
This section shall not abridge the right of a citizen to apply himself, or his agent, to any foreign government, or the agents thereof, for redress of any injury which he may have sustained from such government or any of its agents or subjects.
That response is a lot like a child who is getting punished telling on someone else to get out of what they did.
2 wrongs don't make a right.
Get an attorney to come up with a case and prosecute Kerry then.
LOL, NOBODY has ever been convicted of violating the Logan Act, citing the Logan Act is a joke and is not applicable here.
Conspiring with a foreign government to violate the election laws of the United States, which prohibit foreign nationals from contributing any “thing of value” to an electoral campaign is the issue, not the Logan Act but thanks for playing.
If real evidence of that ever surfaces, game over for Trump.
You're right, a private citizen without authorization meeting with a russian agent of the kremlin to discuss ending the magnitsky (sic?) act passed into law by Obama (current president) is not a violation of the Logan Act.
Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.
An arcane law, is still a law. And based on the language of the law (from my non-lawyer POV), Don Jr. has broken it.
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He is undermining the press (and journalism in any form) when he calls verified facts fake news. His intent is irrelevant. The what here is the pure, literal meaning of the word 'undermine'. It's contradictory to claim to grasp the concept, as you've done several times in the thread, and make that statement. If I'm trying to throw an alley oop, but make a basket instead, it's a basket. Nobody can claim it's not a basket, simply because I was trying to make an assist.
And I'm truly not trying to pick on you here, however it's a little ironic that you accuse someone of painting with the broadest of brushes and then do the exact same thing with your first point.
Not sure why this is posted here. Has nothing to do with the topic at hand. The Logan Act prohibits private citizens from influencing other countries with regards to US policy, hence the phrase "intent to influence the measure or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof."
Can you offer an example of this? I'm not aware of "verified facts" that he has called fake news.
Literally read the second clause.
or to defeat the measures of the United States
And the Magnitsky Act is a measure of the United States.
Their story was that they were discussing Russian adoption policy. They were not discussing defeating the measure. The Logan Act does not apply.
Contrarian and pompous. That is a first!
They won't touch the Logan act.
It is a useless law and probably not even a good idea.
If what Cohen is saying is true, Jr will be charged for lying to congress and potentially conspiracy.
Actually, I got it wrong and you were correct!
1) Obama Admins passed Magnitsky Act.
2) Russia passed a law in retaliation dealing with adoption to US.
3) "Adoption meeting" took place with a US citizen and a Kremlin agent to discuss Russia's adoption law.
So the meeting with a Kremlin official discussing Russian adoptions would most likely fall into the category of a US citizen trying to influence a foreign government's policy.
But, with that said, there is a matter of whether the law theoretically has lapsed constitutionally since it has never been enforced. Turley even thinks it may be unconstitutional. So I will let this law go.
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Yes, just read an article with some Turley and other lawyers opinions on its constitutionality after never being enforced.
After the 60 minutes interview with Stormy Danies - Trump tweeted "So much Fake News. Never been more voluminous or more inaccurate. But through it all, our country is doing great!"
Also about Stormy.
Reporter: "Mr. President, did you know about the $130,000 payment to Stormy Daniels?"
Trump: "No. No. What else?"
That is what Trump does though. He constantly calls the media fake. He doesn't have to single out stories themselves. His base rejects negative stories.
Here is an example -
"Any negative polls are fake news, just like the CNN, ABC, NBC polls in the election. Sorry, people want border security and extreme vetting."
He tweeted that in February 2017. To understand what he is talking about we would need to look up the news stories in 2017 - but he is saying - don't trust anything negative and throwing some meat to his supporters.
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