OT: NY Giants' Stretch Run

[hallgrad80]

Piratz
That OL had three Giant draftees and two free agents in McKenzie and O'Hara and reflected Accorsi's philosophy that you can't win without a QB and when you have one you have to protect him.

 

[Piratz]

Piratz
That OL had three Giant draftees and two free agents in McKenzie and O'Hara and reflected Accorsi's philosophy that you can't win without a QB and when you have one you have to protect him.

Agreed. And especially with the type of QB Eli Manning is! He's not mobile and thrives on picking apart defense and throwing the long ball in particular. When Gilbride was shoved out the door, he was spot on with his assessment of why that system sudden failed. That line was caving in during the end of 2012 as well.

Despite Reese being with the organization for 20 years and serving under Accorsi, they are different people with different football backgrounds and beliefs. The incredible deterioration of some of these key positions reflects both poor evaluation of talent as well as a surprising lack of prioritization until it's too late.

That offense just could not function in 2013 because of the line and the insane negligence in planning to rebuild it. It's been a painfully slow and meandering process to rebuild it for 3 years now. Reese was caught asleep at the switch. Remember him putting up that SB clock at 2013 Training Camp? Whoops.

And now what's going to happen this week against the Jets' talented front?

 

[hallgrad80]

Piratz
On the Giants last SB victory you still had Diehl, McKenzie and Snee starting with Baas replacing O'Hara and Boothe replacing Seubert and both Boothe and Baas were free agent signings and no OL draftees to step in.

 

[Piratz]

Piratz
On the Giants last SB victory you still had Diehl, McKenzie and Snee starting with Baas replacing O'Hara and Boothe replacing Seubert and both Boothe and Baas were free agent signings and no OL draftees to step in.

That 2011 team got healthy late - especially at RB and at DE - and became a different team. And despite Baas being on that team, he was a FA bust. Similar to Schwartz. He only played in 11 games that year and 3 in 2013. Played all of 2012 though. They cut him.

Despite those vets aging into their 30's (Snee, Diehl, McKenzie, etc.) and how important the line was to Eli and the run-and-shoot Gilbride offense they had, they never invested a single pick higher than the 4th round on an OL for those 3 notoriously bad drafts of 2010, 2011, and 2012.

And those 4th Rounders they did take - James Brewer (Indiana) in 2010 and Brandon Mosely (Auburn) in 2012 - were absolute busts.

They got pretty serious about it since then though, didn't they? LOL

 

[hallgrad80]

Beatty was one of two second round picks in the 2009 draft , the other being Clint Sintim an absolute , total bust.what has always puzzled me is that Reese worked with Accorsi's for years and yet never seemed to accept how important drafting OL is until the last few drafts.

 

[its haLL baLL]

When Reese took over, the Giants had arguably the best offensive and defensive lines in the NFL. Throughout his tenure, we have seen both lines go from one of the best units in the league to one of the worst. That is my biggest issue with Reese. You cannot win without strong line play and Reese somehow dismissed this notion and let both units go to complete and utter crap.

 

[hallgrad80]

HallBall
Your observation is one made by many in the sports media including former players now acting as analysts during or after games on TV . It's akin to his ignoring the importance of linebacking.

 

[Piratz]

Shots fired...

"People have got to extend themselves this time of year," Coughlin said. "If it's that important to them, extend yourselves. By that, I mean, hey, it's no different than you guys (the media).

"Go to the office early, stay late, make sure you're responsible for your assignments, make sure you're prepared, make sure you know the guy you're going to play against, do everything in your power.

"This is ... we're in December now. There are not many games left to play. There's no reason to not commit yourself totally and completely to something you spent your life wishing and hoping for. That's the attitude I take."

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/...o_his_giants_in_press.html#incart_river_index

 

[hbkmyr]

Everyone is on notice.

http://nypost.com/2015/12/03/frustrated-giants-co-owner-puts-tom-coughlin-jerry-reese-on-notice/

 

[TomD82]

Everyone is on notice.

http://nypost.com/2015/12/03/frustrated-giants-co-owner-puts-tom-coughlin-jerry-reese-on-notice/

It sure sounds that way. Strange that the football side co-owner is not saying much now. They` are going to have to clean house one way or another. If Coughlin goes 8-8 and miraculously beats say Minnesota in a WC game at home he is going to want to come back. Even if he were to lose say 34-31 to Green Bay in the same situation he is going to want to come back.

And if they were 7-4 now as they really should be and had the division all behind them and didn't finish strong he would also want to come back. Ii is amazing how it seems no succession plan has ever been thought with Coughlin.

 

[Section112]

I think the succession plan was McAdoo. But not so sure that is working out too well.

 

[Piratz]

Mara is not going to make comments like that during the season. It's never been his way. I don't think these comments are surprising. Mara said the same thing last year. I think it's playoffs or bust, which is entirely reasonable.

Even if Tom rallies them to 8-8 and they miss the playoffs, it won't feel good because of the stinging losses they've already had. Earlier this year I thought that 8-8 but missing out would probably be enough improvement, but not now. How they've lost matters.

I don't think he gets credit for a strong finish but missing out of the postseason like he did in 2013 (0-6 to 7-9) and 2014 (3-9 to 6-10). I really think those finishes made it easy to bring him back and this year is it.

Q: Would you describe next year as a win-or-else proposition for a lot of people in this franchise?
A: I do not think that is an unfair statement.

http://www.giants.com/news-and-blog...ohn-Mara/70906531-9304-4001-b990-8fc41b067ca1

 

[Piratz]

I think the succession plan was McAdoo. But not so sure that is working out too well.

Oh, God. He is nowhere near ready for that. He needs another season or two of his on-the-drop training with being a coordinator.

 

[hallgrad80]

I think what's happening is that Tisch , who has generally deferred to Mara on the FB side while he handled the financial side , is speaking out publicly and it looks like there is a deadline for Reese and TC to produce or there will be changes.

Piratz
Every program who has not had the success it wants always has to reach the point where it's success or else. Whether it be The Giants, Georgia or Miami FB or SH basketball.

 

[hbkmyr]

They've tried to plug holes in the coaching staff and it's left them shorthanded when it comes to a replacement. McAdoo is clearly not ready, and while I like Spags, I wouldn't be giving him the keys to the car. They made significant adjustments to Eli's throwing style and approach to fit this new offense. I think they went all in that this staff would be successful and they wouldn't have to ask him to learn a completely new offense for the second time in three years. I don't think you can mandate any new coach that comes in from outside the organization that they have to keep the current offensive philosophy in place.

 

[TomD82]

112 and Piratz,

Everybody seemed to think it was McAdoo and then last year Mara was quoted saying he didn't know Ben McAdoo from Bob McAdoo. What an analogy in a basketball forum!

hbkmyr, I agree with your points on Eli,. They just could not have him doing 5-7 step drops and going through all his progressions under a Gilbride offense any longer. The coaching situation and Coughlin has hurt in getting a staff especially defensive coaches though. They were trying to catch lighting in a bottle bringing Spags back.

 

[Section112]

I don't blame Spags at all for our defensive performance. We don't have the players and I actually think he's done a decent job.
It's clear McAdoo is not the guy but lack of talent on the O line is not his doing. The RB by committee is though.

When do we start hearing the Bill Cowher rumors again? Mara and Tisch better be in crisis mode right now because they are going to have to make some big changes it appears.

 

[Piratz]

Since when do you need to have a succession plan in the NFL? I don't think that's a prerequisite. It's only discussed because of Coughlin's age. Furthermore if they implode to another losing record, why maintain a line of succession anyway?

The Giants leadership is around the staff every day. If they feel there's someone who has the right skills and mindset to lead the team after Coughlin is gone, he'll get the job. If they don't, they'll go outside the organization. Just like every team in the NFL.

I know it sounds weird to think that the final 5 games will determine a 12-year tenure, but makes sense to me. You don't give up until the full body of work his done. Imagine firing him in 2011 when the team lost 4 consecutive games and were 6-6?

If the team finishes with a winning record and wins the NFC East, they're all coming back and deservedly so, even if the path to get there was torturous, LOL.

I think the close losses plays better for the ideal that they'll retain Reese and change coaches if the team misses the playoffs, but who knows.

 

[TomD82]

Since when do you need to have a succession plan in the NFL? I don't think that's a prerequisite. It's only discussed because of Coughlin's age. Furthermore if they implode to another losing record, why maintain a line of succession anyway?

The Giants leadership is around the staff every day. If they feel there's someone who has the right skills and mindset to lead the team after Coughlin is gone, he'll get the job. If they don't, they'll go outside the organization. Just like every team in the NFL.

I know it sounds weird to think that the final 5 games will determine a 12-year tenure, but makes sense to me. You don't give up until the full body of work his done. Imagine firing him in 2011 when the team lost 4 consecutive games and were 6-6?

If the team finishes with a winning record and wins the NFC East, they're all coming back and deservedly so, even if the path to get there was torturous, LOL.

I think the close losses plays better for the ideal that they'll retain Reese and change coaches if the team misses the playoffs, but who knows.

Why do you think they had to go back to Spags as a DC and get a McAdoo in the first place? No good DC would even take the job give Coughlin's situation. The only person within the organization even remotely resembling what you describe would be Spags. I can't wait to see who Mara hires as a GM and whether he has lost confidence in Marc Ross. Chris Mara the next GM of the Giants watch.

 

[its haLL baLL]

Since when do you need to have a succession plan in the NFL? I don't think that's a prerequisite. It's only discussed because of Coughlin's age. Furthermore if they implode to another losing record, why maintain a line of succession anyway?

The Giants leadership is around the staff every day. If they feel there's someone who has the right skills and mindset to lead the team after Coughlin is gone, he'll get the job. If they don't, they'll go outside the organization. Just like every team in the NFL.

I know it sounds weird to think that the final 5 games will determine a 12-year tenure, but makes sense to me. You don't give up until the full body of work his done. Imagine firing him in 2011 when the team lost 4 consecutive games and were 6-6?

If the team finishes with a winning record and wins the NFC East, they're all coming back and deservedly so, even if the path to get there was torturous, LOL.

I think the close losses plays better for the ideal that they'll retain Reese and change coaches if the team misses the playoffs, but who knows.

Every time you mention the possibility of firing Coughlin and keeping Reese my stomach turns lol. If one goes, they both should. If you're right and they miss the playoffs, fire Coughlin, and retain Reese be prepared for one of the more epic rants in Pirate Crew history!

 

[hbkmyr]

Since when do you need to have a succession plan in the NFL? I don't think that's a prerequisite. It's only discussed because of Coughlin's age. Furthermore if they implode to another losing record, why maintain a line of succession anyway?

The Giants leadership is around the staff every day. If they feel there's someone who has the right skills and mindset to lead the team after Coughlin is gone, he'll get the job. If they don't, they'll go outside the organization. Just like every team in the NFL.

I know it sounds weird to think that the final 5 games will determine a 12-year tenure, but makes sense to me. You don't give up until the full body of work his done. Imagine firing him in 2011 when the team lost 4 consecutive games and were 6-6?

If the team finishes with a winning record and wins the NFC East, they're all coming back and deservedly so, even if the path to get there was torturous, LOL.

I think the close losses plays better for the ideal that they'll retain Reese and change coaches if the team misses the playoffs, but who knows.

I don't think you need a succession plan. The patchwork approach to fixing the staff in order to give Coughlin every opportunity to succeed has created a problem IMO. With limited roster flexibility in the NFL you can't just keep changing offensive and defensive philosophy's year after year and asking the same players to learn them. I think they should've gotten rid of the staff all at once, as opposed to firing offensive coordinator one year, defensive coordinator the next, etc. If they decide to change the staff after this season, some of the longer tenured players will have had three different coordinators in a three-four year span.

 

[Section112]

Patchwork approach is what occurs all the time because coordinators come and go. It's also the underlying organization that matters too. Scouting etc.

I'm still hoping they get hot but am not very hopeful it will occur with the problems of the O Line, D line and secondary. But if they miss the playoffs again I really hope they dump the coach and GM. I also cringe at the thought of keeping Reese if they don't make the playoffs. Close losses or not, the O and D lines in the last 4 years is all you need to look at.

 

[TomD82]

I don't think you need a succession plan. The patchwork approach to fixing the staff in order to give Coughlin every opportunity to succeed has created a problem IMO. With limited roster flexibility in the NFL you can't just keep changing offensive and defensive philosophy's year after year and asking the same players to learn them. I think they should've gotten rid of the staff all at once, as opposed to firing offensive coordinator one year, defensive coordinator the next, etc. If they decide to change the staff after this season, some of the longer tenured players will have had three different coordinators in a three-four year span.

Right on about the patchwork creating a problem. And TC caused lots of those problems over the years. Dick Jauron wanted no part of his staff years ago and Paul Scwartz reported the same recently about other coaches feeling the same way.

At the end of the season 2 years ago Mara said the offense is broken. Than they give him some changes to succeed and 2 years later you still have clock management melt downs, play selection blunders and receivers running the wrong routes. When the HC is working on basically a 1 year rollover contract good coaches are not going there.

 

[Piratz]

Patchwork approach is what occurs all the time because coordinators come and go. It's also the underlying organization that matters too. Scouting etc.

This.

Coughlin fired John Hufnagel in 2006 during the season and replaced him with Gilbride. He fired Tim Lewis after 2006 and replaced him with Steve Spagnuolo.

He fired Bill Sheridan in 2009, replacing him with Perry Fewell.

Coordinator changes are a way of life in the NFL. Look at Indianapolis and Detroit this season.

The offense was broken in 2013 because of the personnel on the lines and at RB. Baas missed 13 games, Snee missed 14, Diehl missed 5. Remember pulling Peyton Hillis and Brandon Jacobs off the heap to start? David Wilson was hurt, Andre Brown was hurt.

 

[TomD82]

This.

Coughlin fired John Hufnagel in 2006 during the season and replaced him with Gilbride. He fired Tim Lewis after 2006 and replaced him with Spagnuolo.

Coordinator changes are a way of life in the NFL.

The offense was broken in 2013 because of the personnel on the lines and at RB. Baas played 3 games, Snee played 2, Diehl was hurt. Remember pulling Peyton Hillis and Brandon Jacobs off the heap to start?

Funny I was going to bring up Hufnagel. Don't forget Bill Sheridan along the way in 2009. And at the end of 2013 is when Mara was quoted "I don't know why it took 3 years to figure out Jerel Jernigan can play after he caught 19 passes in 3 games. It's not Reese's fault he got also got hurt. Looks like they opted for Preston Parker since then. The way of life has been very accommodating to Coughlin the last several years.

 

[Piratz]

Funny I was going to bring up Hufnagel. Don't forget Bill Sheridan along the way in 2009. And at the end of 2013 is when Mara was quoted "I don't know why it took 3 years to figure out Jerel Jernigan can play after he caught 19 passes in 3 games. It's not Reese's fault he got also got hurt. Looks like they opted for Preston Parker since then. The way of life has been very accommodating to Coughlin the last several years.

To be fair, Jernigan had those nice few games but he's not even in the NFL anymore.

He and Reese have both been given every opportunity to rebuild the team and if they don't rally here I do think that'll be it for Coughlin (and maybe Reese) and they'll be looking for a new coach.

If they lose to the Jets on Sunday and fall to 5-7 with 3 consecutive losses, it's going to be a nightmare for Tom Coughlin. Hopefully they do well. The next two games are winnable (Miami after that on MNF) and they absolutely must get to 7-6.

Whenever Coughlin's tenure ends, he'll be in the Ring of Honor and perhaps on the way to Canton. Delivering two Super Bowl championships is a special thing in a tenure.

 

[hallgrad80]

To be fair, Jernigan had those nice few games but he's not even in the NFL anymore.

He and Reese have both been given every opportunity to rebuild the team and if they don't rally here I do think that'll be it for Coughlin (and maybe Reese) and they'll be looking for a new coach.

If they lose to the Jets on Sunday and fall to 5-7 with 3 consecutive losses, it's going to be a nightmare for Tom Coughlin. Hopefully they do well.

Whenever Coughlin's tenure ends, he'll be in the Ring of Honor and perhaps on the way to Canton. Delivering two Super Bowl championships is a special thing in a tenure.

Piratz
It may not be if they lose but how they lose that could decide TC's fate. If they lose by giving up a lead late and you have another game involving poor game and time management that causes the loss then I don't see how TC can overcome that.

If the game is a blowout and the lack of talent on the field for the Giants is in stark contrast to what the Jets put on the field then JR may also be in serious trouble. I would just add if it's a blowout loss for the Giants the NY sports media will show no mercy in its criticism and the call for both to go will be the focal point of those stories.

 

[hbkmyr]

I'm not debating coordinator changes happen all the time or are necessarily a bad thing. My issue with the Gianrs is that they used these changes as band aids to the real problem. A lot of this has to do with Eli. I really think they were trying to do whatever they could to string out Coughlin as long as they could and then turn the team over to one of the assistants in order to keep Eli comfortable. Now they are going to start all over and make a 34 year old QB learn a new offense. It can be done and has been done, but I think they were doing everything they could so it didn't have be done. Now they're going to have to blow this whole thing up. They should've done it 2-3 years ago. The signs were there in terms of slow starts and late season disasters.

 

[Piratz]

Pugh and Richburg practiced both days this week and increased workload today. That's a HUGE positive for the Giants considering the Jets' strength is interior line play.

Pugh hasn't played since the game in Tampa on November 8th because of a concussion. Richburg was carted off against the Patriots on November 15th with an injured ankle.

 

[hbkmyr]

Pretty surprising. Looks like Reese is safe, but Coughlin in trouble. I think both should go.

http://nypost.com/2015/12/03/giants-know-the-prime-scapegoat-if-they-collapse-source/

 

[Piratz]

Pretty surprising. Looks like Reese is safe, but Coughlin in trouble. I think both should go.

http://nypost.com/2015/12/03/giants-know-the-prime-scapegoat-if-they-collapse-source/

I agree with you, but I think this is what is going to happen if Tom doesn't rally the team and have them show improvement down the stretch. If they respond to him and get into the playoffs he'll be back and deservedly so.

The downfall of the team the past few years has been discussed for pages on this thread. All things come to and end. Look at Torre with the Yankees. I'm just hoping Coughlin goes out a winner, whenever that is. He's a very good coach despite the struggles lately of the team.

How about this nutty stat? The GIants posted 3 consecutive winning seasons under Coughlin from 2010 through 2012 (of course missing in 2010 and 2012 on tiebreaks, but won the SB in 2011). That was the first time a Giants team had posted winning records in 3 consecutive seasons in over 20 years, since 1988-1989-1990 with Parcells.

Crazy, no?

 

[its haLL baLL]

Pretty surprising. Looks like Reese is safe, but Coughlin in trouble. I think both should go.

http://nypost.com/2015/12/03/giants-know-the-prime-scapegoat-if-they-collapse-source/

That article just made me nauseas.

 

[its haLL baLL]

If Coughlin is let go, would you have any interest in Sean Payton? Assuming the draft pick you'd have to give up is no better than a 4th round pick or so.

 

[TomD82]

If Coughlin is let go, would you have any interest in Sean Payton? Assuming the draft pick you'd have to give up is no better than a 4th round pick or so.

Very interesting thread about Sean Payton. Miami is reported to be very interested in him, but with Eli as QB at least for several years maybe he might feel that would be a better situation than Tannehill? We could not survive another DC situation like he has with Rob Ryan though. Forget about coordinators come and go Rob Ryan has been recycled so many times it is not funny.

 

[Section112]

Very interesting thread about Sean Payton. Miami is reported to be very interested in him, but with Eli as QB at least for several years maybe he might feel that would be a better situation than Tannehill? We could not survive another DC situation like he has with Rob Ryan though. Forget about coordinators come and go Rob Ryan has been recycled so many times it is not funny.

Actually Spags coached the D in New Orleans during Payton's sit out year I believe (not much success though). They may know each other more than you think and Ryan might not even be in the mix. The real question is would the Giants touch a coach that was suspended for a year for bounties like he was? I doubt it.

 

[hallgrad80]

The Giants recent performances these past few seasons is an organizational failure. That includes Mara, Reese, Coughlin, the pro personnel people, the pro and college scouting department and other parts of the organization and when you have an organizational failure you can't correct it by changing only a single part of the problem. It's like having a large tutor and you only remove a small part of it.

Firing just TC does nothing to correct the Giants significant failures in acquiring talent as no coach can win w/o talent and quality depth and letting the architect of that failure remain is to continue what we've seen from Reese.

 

[Piratz]

I agree with hallgrad. I don't see how the coach is holding them back, but someone will pay for a third consecutive season.

Very difficult to figure on a new coach. Still a lot of games left here to see what's what, but at this stage I think the ideal scenario is the offense is kept in tact and you leave that to Eli, and get a defensive type of a coach to oversee the massive rebuild of the roster on that side.

The defense has been bad for a long time and while I do not blame that on Spagnuolo, the personnel issues at LB and S are a huge problem in this day and age in the NFL.

Unfortunately Jon Beason turned out to be a bust, they couldn't retain Will Hill, and allowed Antrelle Rolle - who was a step slower - to walk. They didn't address that properly this offseason. Fewell had the same problem last year. There's an opportunity to completely rebuild both units and reinforce the front line.

 

[TomD82]

I agree with hallgrad. I don't see how the coach is holding them back, but someone will pay for a third consecutive season.

Very difficult to figure on a new coach. Still a lot of games left here to see what's what, but at this stage I think the ideal scenario is the offense is kept in tact and you leave that to Eli, and get a defensive type of a coach to oversee the massive rebuild of the roster on that side.

The defense has been bad for a long time and while I do not blame that on Spagnuolo, the personnel issues at LB and S are a huge problem in this day and age in the NFL. They didn't address that properly this offseason. Fewell had the same problem last year. There's an opportunity to completely rebuild both units and reinforce the front line.

Somewhere in the last few years the player evaulation organization and the GM completley changed how they view OLs and LBs. It seemed to me that they said pick an OL or LB with a top 15-16 pick? We can get a skill position player at that pick. Then they thought they could make up for it in later rounds and find a Diehl, a Gary Reasons or we can coach up a Seubert.

hallgrad80 makes one of the most ridiculous arguments I have ever seen here. This team was 2:00 away from winning plentyof games until the coaches blew it with clock management and also allowed the only plays to happen that could cause your team to lose like kicking the ball to the most dangerous PR opposing player. Two season when the team was 6-2 at the mid point and collapsed it's the entire organization's fault because of no talent? Two season ago when they could have beaten the Ravens to make the playoffs there was no talent? Then they beat the Eagles 42-7 the final game of the year, but needed help to back into the playoffs there was no talent.

Maybe the organization should fire everybody like John Mara wanted to do emotionally after the Jacksonville game debacle (was that loss an organization failure also). Then he can evaluate and pick all the talent just like his father used to do. How did that work out from 1964-1978?

 

[Piratz]

Reese has drafted much better recently. Other than DRC, his other big money signings have not gone well though. I don't think the team is devoid of talent and think they should be better than 5-6 if guys made plays, BUT they have some major deficiencies that you really can't coach around.

Regardless of coach TomD, they have to improve the personnel on defense. Look at safety and LB. Dahl, Merriweather, and Brinkley were on the scrap heap and each of them were signed August or later. They're starters now. They are getting KILLED over the middle. Look what Dallas did in going 80 yards with 1:30 left or Brady moving into FG range with ease. Look at Washington last week or how Brees hit like 80% and drove on them late, too.

They need to find a running game. That will make the clock management look much better.

 

[TomD82]

Reese has drafted much better recently. Other than DRC, his other big money signings have not gone well though. I don't think the team is devoid of talent and think they should be better than 5-6 if guys made plays, BUT they have some major deficiencies that you really can't coach around.

Regardless of coach TomD, they have to improve the personnel on defense. Look at safety and LB. Dahl, Merriweather, and Brinkley were on the scrap heap and each of them were signed August or later. They're starters now. They are getting KILLED over the middle. Look what Dallas did in going 80 yards with 1:30 left or Brady moving into FG range with ease. Look at Washington last week or how Brees hit like 80% and drove on them late, too.

They need to find a running game. That will make the clock management look much better.

His only recent big FA signings you keep talking about were Beason and Scwartz. And even those only have $6M each guaranteed. OHara and Seubert were PUP so he had to do something and signed Baas. Now I agree when the organization has such a conviction about players it usually turns out bad like Baas, Beatty and Schwartz. DRC and Harris are very good big FA signings and Jennings is fine also. All those other signings Walton, Thurmond, Holliday etc. 1-2 yr deals are off the books. And the bad defense got enough TOs to win the games you keep talking about if the dam coaches had run down the clock like they should have. Coughlin should know not to even put this defense in those situations.

To get a real running game they need to get bigger on the interior of the OL and agree they need more speed and athleticism on defense.

I know, I know there is no talent on this team it is a miracle that they are even in these games and the coach is the only noncanerous part of the entire organization body that caused this lack of talent condition.