The critical mistake that TD82 makes is that he fails to recognize the difference between professional and collegiate sports.in college the head coach also has responsibility for acquiring the talent while in the pros the coach coaches and the GM acquires the talent except in the rare cases where the coach performs both functions. Given the lack of talent on this team , and this team is woefully short of talent, why isn't the blame vested on the GM the same way he places blame on the coach for certain losses. He wants to get rid of TC and appears to believe that will return the Giants back to the top whereas I believe that both the GM and coach must go to achieve that goal. I won't convince him and he won't convince me of what we each see as the solution.
OT: NY Giants' Stretch Run
- Thread starter Piratz
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The critical mistake that TD82 makes is that he fails to recognize the difference between professional and collegiate sports.in college the head coach also has responsibility for acquiring the talent while in the pros the coach coaches and the GM acquires the talent except in the rare cases where the coach performs both functions. Given the lack of talent on this team , and this team is woefully short of talent, why isn't the blame vested on the GM the same way he places blame on the coach for certain losses. He wants to get rid of TC and appears to believe that will return the Giants back to the top whereas I believe that both the GM and coach must go to achieve that goal. I won't convince him and he won't convince me of what we each see as the solution.
It's not woefully short of talent. Is there 2 SBs talent on this team, of course not .This is not the Cleveland Browns organization with talent like Trent Richardson and Johnny Manziel. This coaching staff has blown a dozen games in 3 years. When the team is winning and then collapes or doesn't take advantage of opportunities on the field and makes critical coaching errors and mental mistakes you don't even blame the organization never mind the coach you seem to blame the GM.
At the end of a bunch of tight games the defense has never made a stop once this year. The talent is not good. Coughlin blew the Dallas game for sure but not the Pats game. Odell catches that ball and I bet the Giants win. But again the woeful D did not get a stop when it counted. Now the offense is Beckham and Eli and maybe a little Vereen. Again not oozing with talent at all. Coughlin is probably past his prime but the coaching to get that so so team to win the Super Bowl was fantastic. But our GM has simply been bad. Both need to go if this ends badly.
Certainly not oozing with talent, but if things turn out missing the playoffs again this year that will be 4 straight years without a playoff appearance when it could have been 2-3 playoff appearances. That hardly sounds woefully talented such as teams like Tampa, Tennesee, Jacksonville and Cleveland during the same period.
I know I sound like Donald Trump and then Greg from Morristown when we beat RU in comparing the Giants to those teams I mentioned above.
You're right I blame the GM more then the coach while you place more blame on the coach then the GM . At least I'm treating both men equally and want both of them gone. I look at the Giants roster and don't see one legitimate All-Pro player on defense and on offense I see ODB and maybe Eli and that's on Reese, not Tom ,
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The places where they don't have the talent is where they're being exposed. The entire offseason there were major concerns about offensive line (after Beatty got hurt), safety, and LB.
We'll see how they come out today against the Jets in a must-win game. Tom Coughlin has gone out of his way this week to motivate them and if they do not come out and play a good game that will speak volumes, personnel or not.
They have a lot of young players on the roster now and you can see the natural ups and downs (sort of like our SHU basketball team). He needs to get them into shape now by using what happened in Washington to rattle them. That looked like a young team who had everything break well for them except, well, themselves.
This is usually where he's at his best for good reason: http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york-gi...om-coughlin-defies-traditional-hot-seat-logic
It will help immensely to have Richburg and Pugh back.
We'll see how they come out today against the Jets in a must-win game. Tom Coughlin has gone out of his way this week to motivate them and if they do not come out and play a good game that will speak volumes, personnel or not.
They have a lot of young players on the roster now and you can see the natural ups and downs (sort of like our SHU basketball team). He needs to get them into shape now by using what happened in Washington to rattle them. That looked like a young team who had everything break well for them except, well, themselves.
This is usually where he's at his best for good reason: http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york-gi...om-coughlin-defies-traditional-hot-seat-logic
It will help immensely to have Richburg and Pugh back.
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You still make no sense. Who are all these all pros on offense for say Green Bay, Minnesota and KC? Both Giants TE are ranked well above GB TEs in receiving. Randle is a top 50 WR the only one GB has is Cobb and he is well behind Beckham who is #4. Harris is also #8 in the NFL in KO returns. Even the Giants defense is tied for 3rd in the league in interceptions. Also does Victor Cruz not count any longer because he got hurt?
Who does Minnesota have that are such All Pros besides AP? And Jennings is about as good as Eddie Lacey is.
To quote from today's column by Politi talking about Reese's job security " But the man who drafted ODB is also the man who built a flawed roster that is completely devoid of playmakers on defense, a problem that doesn't appear to have a quick solution."
Obviously, we tend to focus on the team that we root for, in this case the Giants. There appears to be a breakdown of fundamentals in many sports during this era and the Giants standout if you focus on them.
We thought they needed to rebuild their offensive line and they have. They have two #1 picks and a #2 on
the line yet even when healthy they can not muster a push to get a short yardage first down. How is that possible? Plus I've been saying they need to draft a top notch back. Looks like A Williams could be a miss. I thought Jennings was a good signing, but he has had mixed results.
The Giant secondary can be scarily bad at times. Awful execution and technique. The Prince seems to be hurt
all the time and let's face it he's good not great. DRC is the top notch guy back there.
Anyway, The Giants really blew it last week at Washington and now it's going to take winning the Jet game, Miami, Eagles and either Carolina or Minnesota. Plus we need the Redskins to lose at least 2 games now.
Let's see what they do against the Jets. The QB for the Jets is the kind that usually doesn't kill the Giants
in a home game, but you never know.
I can't believe we'll have to root for the Cowboys and Eagles to help us. UGH.
We thought they needed to rebuild their offensive line and they have. They have two #1 picks and a #2 on
the line yet even when healthy they can not muster a push to get a short yardage first down. How is that possible? Plus I've been saying they need to draft a top notch back. Looks like A Williams could be a miss. I thought Jennings was a good signing, but he has had mixed results.
The Giant secondary can be scarily bad at times. Awful execution and technique. The Prince seems to be hurt
all the time and let's face it he's good not great. DRC is the top notch guy back there.
Anyway, The Giants really blew it last week at Washington and now it's going to take winning the Jet game, Miami, Eagles and either Carolina or Minnesota. Plus we need the Redskins to lose at least 2 games now.
Let's see what they do against the Jets. The QB for the Jets is the kind that usually doesn't kill the Giants
in a home game, but you never know.
I can't believe we'll have to root for the Cowboys and Eagles to help us. UGH.
TomD is right. Coughlin is overmatched and needs to go. Kick the FG and they win in regulation. Doesn't take the GM off the hook but I'd fire Coughlin today if the Giants lose.
Eh, kick the FG there and the Jets can't kick a FG so they just go score two TDs and you lose before you ever get to OT. Giants D was never stopping them.
But yes, Coughlin has coached this season like someone who's no longer fully in possession of his mental faculties.
Just finished patching the gouge I put in the wall when I threw my shoe when the Jets won in OT. Any lingering doubt that TC should be let go was erased today and that goes for Reese as well. All I can say to Tom is " What the hell were you thinking."
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Once they below that 4th and 2 I had no doubt the Jets would do what they did, Why? Because this is who the 2015 Giants are. This is the mindset the team has settled into. They completely sh-t the bed in pressurized situations, like our SHU team a few years ago (2013-14).
Getting the points there keeps the momentum. And he burns a TO on the decision!?!?! As the season has gone on, it's just not a well run operation. Not a bright group.
It's been a brutal season. You sit down to watch a football game on Sunday and you left with this torturous, gut-wrenching experience if you're a fan of the team. I've never seen anything like it.
It's really uncharacteristic of him. Twice this year I've got my hands up at the TV wondering what the hell they are doing. The first was that insane pass call in Dallas and then today. Why breathe life into the Jets? They were dead.
I blame the dumb punter for NO and the insanity of Landon Collins for NE.
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As a Giant fan I don't think we have much to complain about when looking at the big picture. The 2
Super bowl runs were outstanding and the organization has given us a lot to be proud of. This season
if you look at individually has to be one of the most frustrating. It's funny because we all know they're not that
good, but they can easily be 9-3 or 8-4 and could have hosted a playoff game. That's a huge statement about
the State of the NFL. It's time those greedy owners allow for expanded rosters and higher payrolls. There are too many injuries because of the level of athlete and the speed of the game. Thus there is no depth and the
play suffers.
I have given up trying to predict what this Giant team is going to do from game to game. I just wish they would
run their offense like they MUST score a minimum of 30 points every week. They run too many sets with what
seems like throw away plays. They are just awful with play calling when they are trying to expand a lead. In addition it's just laughable when they need a first down to seal a game. They can't do it. I blame Eli, McAdoo and Coughlin. They have no suitable pass plays for these situations .They try these timing plays that require 100 percent execution. Eli is constantly changing the play always concerned that they can't block.
As far as Reese we tend to look at all the failures. Having said that there are some huge misses. I still don't
understand how two #1 OL and a #2 cannot block in short yardage. It's mind boggling. He drafts the Prince who I believe had zero interceptions in his last season at Nebraska in the 1st round? Holsey is a terrific athlete who is a miserable football player. The A. Williams pick at the running back spot has set back the running game. There is still part of me that feels he one day could be successful . As some of you have pointed out the scouting department has to take some heat for these recent misteps as well.
Oh well I know that in several weeks we'll know if there will be a new coach for the Giants. If not then the
football Gods have blessed Coughlin again. Same with a certain BigEast team in the next 3 months. Let's see what happens.
Super bowl runs were outstanding and the organization has given us a lot to be proud of. This season
if you look at individually has to be one of the most frustrating. It's funny because we all know they're not that
good, but they can easily be 9-3 or 8-4 and could have hosted a playoff game. That's a huge statement about
the State of the NFL. It's time those greedy owners allow for expanded rosters and higher payrolls. There are too many injuries because of the level of athlete and the speed of the game. Thus there is no depth and the
play suffers.
I have given up trying to predict what this Giant team is going to do from game to game. I just wish they would
run their offense like they MUST score a minimum of 30 points every week. They run too many sets with what
seems like throw away plays. They are just awful with play calling when they are trying to expand a lead. In addition it's just laughable when they need a first down to seal a game. They can't do it. I blame Eli, McAdoo and Coughlin. They have no suitable pass plays for these situations .They try these timing plays that require 100 percent execution. Eli is constantly changing the play always concerned that they can't block.
As far as Reese we tend to look at all the failures. Having said that there are some huge misses. I still don't
understand how two #1 OL and a #2 cannot block in short yardage. It's mind boggling. He drafts the Prince who I believe had zero interceptions in his last season at Nebraska in the 1st round? Holsey is a terrific athlete who is a miserable football player. The A. Williams pick at the running back spot has set back the running game. There is still part of me that feels he one day could be successful . As some of you have pointed out the scouting department has to take some heat for these recent misteps as well.
Oh well I know that in several weeks we'll know if there will be a new coach for the Giants. If not then the
football Gods have blessed Coughlin again. Same with a certain BigEast team in the next 3 months. Let's see what happens.
I am now fully confident that the Giants will put themselves in position to win the division with a win over the Eagles in the last game of the season, only to blow it in some incredible fashion.
It is absolutely incredible how the division keeps giving the season back to the Giants. Yesterday the team goes through probably the biggest downer in years following that blown game to the Jets and now today they are coming back into the facility with a pep in their step because it's all in front of them again.
It's quite possible they could play their next game with sole possession of first and should they win, push it up to a full game lead. Unreal.
Will they finally take advantage? Can they finally get over the hump and right some of these wrongs? Will they finally commit to a RB? Will they finally only operate pass/run options out of spreads offenses on short yardage? Will Reuben Randle play well? Will Hakeem Nicks push him?
Is the pass rush generated on Sunday a sign of things to come? Will the returns of Kennard and Merriweather be an improvement over what they were running out there Sunday?
Will someone make a freaking play in a tight game and pop this bubble?
It's quite possible they could play their next game with sole possession of first and should they win, push it up to a full game lead. Unreal.
Will they finally take advantage? Can they finally get over the hump and right some of these wrongs? Will they finally commit to a RB? Will they finally only operate pass/run options out of spreads offenses on short yardage? Will Reuben Randle play well? Will Hakeem Nicks push him?
Is the pass rush generated on Sunday a sign of things to come? Will the returns of Kennard and Merriweather be an improvement over what they were running out there Sunday?
Will someone make a freaking play in a tight game and pop this bubble?
The only thing I do know is I will be traveling next Monday night most likely and will happily miss the game. I'll probably get unlucky and get to my hotel for the under two minute meltdown and do some damage to the hotel room.
When you have a team that plays as inconsistently as the Giants ( and every other team in the NFC East) anything can happen but the one constant in that Division is that none of the teams play sound consistent FB.
It's been a torturous season for the team, organization, fans who invest the time. Just epically heartbreaking and painful in how these games have gone, but they have a chance.
The Giants are the only team in the NFL with a positive point different and a losing record.
Arizona (10-2) = 150
Cincinnati (10-2) = 138
Carolina (12-0) = 130
New England (10-2) = 128
Kansas City (7-5) = 81
Seattle (7-5) = 76
Pittsburgh (7-5) = 71
Denver (10-2) = 59
Green Bay (8-4) = 51
NY Jets (7-5) = 47
Atlanta (6-6) = 22
Buffalo (6-6) = 18
NY Giants (5-7) = 11
Minnesota (8-4) = 6
The Giants are the only team in the NFL with a positive point different and a losing record.
Arizona (10-2) = 150
Cincinnati (10-2) = 138
Carolina (12-0) = 130
New England (10-2) = 128
Kansas City (7-5) = 81
Seattle (7-5) = 76
Pittsburgh (7-5) = 71
Denver (10-2) = 59
Green Bay (8-4) = 51
NY Jets (7-5) = 47
Atlanta (6-6) = 22
Buffalo (6-6) = 18
NY Giants (5-7) = 11
Minnesota (8-4) = 6
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Amazing Reuben Randle even feels compelled give his opinion with his nonsense. For years the Giants have dealt with this nonchalant, ridiculous attitude. He’s been benched repeatedly, nothing works. And to think they wasted a 2nd Round pick on this guy in 2012 when they already had Cruz and Nicks in their prime. Another draft bust.
http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/new-york-giants-rueben-randle-wrong-to-complain-about-role-120915
http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/new-york-giants-rueben-randle-wrong-to-complain-about-role-120915
So when Coughlin says nobody knows his team better than him and then makes quotes how Rubin Randle baffles him what does that say? And as far as your post before the above what does that tell you? Add a positive turnover differential to your post as well as 6 non offense TDs scored this season.
Team that are supposed to be so devoid of talent don't post these kinds of stats. Now they have been out 1st downed significantly though this season. Like somebody posted in this thread., they have 9-10 win talent and that is about where they should be if not for these coaching blunders.
I had mentioned that I think this team has 8 or 9 win talent. And that's where I think Reese has done a bad job. The team has had talent to peak at 8-9 wins the past four years with great coaching (And yes, they've been terribly coached this year). To me that is just not good enough. 9-7 and 8-8 seasons are not a success in my mind.
I don't think the team is devoid of talent overall. I think they have talent in spots and some young players in other spots that could become players. I loved the offseason moves of Vereen and Harris.
Going into the year thought they were an 8-9 win team as constituted. I do think they are devoid of talent in certain areas (LB, S, OT) and it's absolutely killed them, in part because of bad game management decisions because the coaches are trying to be too aggressive to compensate for those bad areas.
I blame the coaching staff for the losses against the Cowboys and Jets. I do not blame the coaching staff for the losses to the Patriots, Falcons, and Saints. There were serious player execution flaws in those games. Collins dropped the GW pick on Brady, Eli's fumble or Prince being beat against Atlanta, the punter in NO.
Their margin for error is razor thin because the areas they are soft are assaulted in this league.
So with all that said, I feel they should be about 7-5. Every team wins and losses close games, this group is 2-10 in them over the past 3 seasons.
TomD, you're an avid fan. You cannot tell me the linebackers and safeties on this team are talented. They're not good. I think Collins has potential to be good down the road, the others are either past their prime or will only be back-ups and role players at best.
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I'm almost inclined to add the Jets game to execution. If the Giants kicked the regulation FG, I think we all know the Jets would've scored two TDs. Plus, if Brown makes that FG in OT who knows what happens.
Stop with this splitting hairs over whether a particular position is not good. Were the 2014 Colts with a bad OL at 11-5 not very good or devoid of talent? Are the 7-5 Steelers with a terrible DB filed not good? The Giants could easily be 9-3 right now. The coach has woefully underachieved for years now and just keeps doing the same things over and over again expecting different results at least as far as game management.
You're looking at everything in a vacuum.
We all know the coach has made mistakes. We're done with that point, I hope. If he doesn't make the playoffs, he's gone. Everyone agrees.
Splitting hairs? The pass defense is TERRIBLE. Worst in the league. The run defense is much better, about average. Show me when the Steelers defense has collapsed the like the Giants. There's a reason teams go 80+ yards on this defense with the game on the line repeatedly. Because the back 7 stinks outside of DRC/Prince. Plus the Steelers offense is 10x better than the Giants which is exactly what Tom Coughlin is trying to do with this offense by being aggressive versus running clock.
If you think all of this is just because of Coughlin, well, then it's just a witch hunt. That defensive coverage unit (lb's/secondary) was a big problem coming into the season and is an even bigger problem now.
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I'm looking at things in a vacuum? And I don't even have any problem with this glass half full outlook of yours. Every time the coach blows a game you post something like it is all in front of them now for the division, the playoffs etc.. Then they come out with an effort like against Washington or blow it like against the Jets. There is enough talent here to be winning even with all the stupid stuff like the all pro DE playing with fireworks in the off season. Was that the GMs fault also? Is Kennard a good LB? If Beason was healthy would he be a good LB? And the owner didn't want to pay Rolle or going back to Gbril Wilson or even Tuck.
It's this terrible division keeps giving them life. They play competitive games, so I'm still optimistic as long as they have a chance and continue to play competitively someone will make a big play late to win.
Yes, i think Beason and Kennard are good, but they are injury prone and it wasn't accounted for. Beason has played 29 games in 6 years, 12 of which came in 2013 with the Giants! There's a reason the Panthers had to scrap the plan and rebuild the LB corps. He just was not reliable. Kennard looks good, but he's already missed 7 games over two seasons. These are not fluky injuries. This is chronic with those guys. One of the reasons Kennard was a 5th round pick was because of concerns he would hold up.
Why do you think the defense couldn't chip in, make a stop, and seal wins?
Handed a 6-point lead with 1:29 left in Dallas with the Cowboys on their own 20?
Handed a 4-point lead with 3:12 left against the Falcons on their own 30?
Handed a 2-point lead with 1:46 left against the Patriots on their own 20?
Handed a 7-point lead with 2:40 left against the Jets on their own 29?
That is an insane amount of failure for a unit. Why so much? Who so habitual?
If the Giants games ended with 75 seconds in regulation this season they would be 10-2. That's incredible
Problem with the GM is there are parts of the team that have been a problem for a very long time and have not been fixed (LB - 5 years, safety - 4 years, no depth at CB for the last 3 years and the last three years on the D line). The last three years has been a problem with the O line and everyone knew in the Super Bowl year that line was old. Again not adequately planned for and the talent he got did not work out or is too young to make a difference. These are chronic problems that are not addressed and would hurt any coaches ability to win games. The game isn't always won in the last two minutes. Its the whole game. That does not excuse Coughlins gaffes this year in any way but its simply the facts.
Antrelle Rolle had some really good years at safety the last 4. Stevie Brown was a ball hawk, but never the same player after his ACL injury. Will Hill as was discussed here we know all about. Maybe the Giants should have had a low level assistant coach follow around JPP particularly near the 4th of July. Maybe if Scott Boras was his agent none of this would have happened.
Rolle was good but that gave us only one good safety which is my point. We have rarely if ever had two really good safeties at the same time except when we had Hill and Rolle. Problem was we took a chance on Hill who had a history that everyone knew about - that is why they had a low level employee shadowing him to try and keep him out of trouble. And he was suspended multiple times so we could not have him on the field. Have to say that is a fail. And Stevie Brown had one decent year - he got 8 interceptions but was not good in coverage and got burned a lot. He has never had another productive year. Where was the depth to cover a possible injury? Where were the draft picks to help Rolle or develop another safety. This situation has been ongoing and only this year did we draft a safety high to try and address it and free agency has not helped either. You are helping to make my point.
This isn't either or to me. They have both done a bad job.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/f...tom-coughlin-hurting-giants-article-1.2458049
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/f...tom-coughlin-hurting-giants-article-1.2458049
The biggest roll of the dice was at the safety position, which was a problem even last year. That secondary was torched last year and they went into this season with a bunch of unproven kids, then had to scramble and sign players cut by others like Merriweathe and Dahl. Not good.
They've paid for it. In those 4 examples of games where the defense couldn't hold a lead they were victimized repeatedly. Totally burnt. And the linebackers aren't much better. They were killed by RB's and TE's on each of those drives.
They've paid for it. In those 4 examples of games where the defense couldn't hold a lead they were victimized repeatedly. Totally burnt. And the linebackers aren't much better. They were killed by RB's and TE's on each of those drives.
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anon_4htvdezyfe7k9
Guest
In my old age (39), I've only started threatening my surroundings during and after SHU games. Used to get that way during Giants games growing up, but after being quarantined to the 10 inch TV in my sister's room during the early 90s, broke that habit. The wife running for cover every time I put on SHU has had a similar efftect.
