Seems Like Donald Trump Jr admitted to looking for Russian Info

[cernjSHU]

Go read the Forbes article written in 2009 well before this happened about how Ted Kennedy met with The USSR. Clinton people met with the people from the Ukraine, a country highly connected to Putin, where's the outrage! Maybe in a perfect world you are correct, but this world is far from perfect and this is a more common practice than you think.

I read those articles. The Ted Kennedy article seems entirely made up. If Kennedy wrote such a letter to the Kremlin then where is the letter instead of a KGB memo quoting it. Anyway, if it is true then it was wrong for him as well.

Let's start off with this correction. Ukraine and Russia are enemies. Russia invaded Ukraine if you remember. So that's first.

With regard to the Ukraine connection. This is a tenuous connection between the Clinton Campaign and Ukraine. The alleged connection is a Ukranian American consultant to the DNC perhaps did research on official Ukranian records. The Ukranian Government itself was not helping the campaign where as in this instance, Putin himself is helping the Trump campaign by hacking into the DNC computers. Moreover, the connection between Russia and Trump was his son, his son-in-law and Campaign Manager. Can it get any more direct????

 

[knowknow456]

I think we need to move forward with healthcare, tax reform, immigration, and other real issues. Or we can be fair and look into every election since World War II and find out the truth about the history of America politics and be in no better place than we are today 10 years from now. Let's stop wasting our time on things both parties did 10 years ago and 10 months ago and get on with moving forward

Understood.

Moving forward with the real issues and the current topic are not mutually exclusive. We can do both.

Looking into the past to understand the present is a good thing in my opinion and we don't need Congressional investigations into every one. The Forbes article you mention is from 8 years ago; but helped us understand that time period and was relevant today as well.

The DTJr meeting stands on its own merits. There is no reason to stop moving forward. We can wait to see how it plays out.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Looking into the past to understand the present is a good thing in my opinion and we don't need Congressional investigations into every one. The Forbes article you mention is from 8 years ago; but helped us understand that time period and was relevant today as well.

The DTJr meeting stands on its own merits. There is no reason to stop moving forward. We can wait to see how it plays out.

I guess the question is what is the criteria for investigating? You can't just say we are going to investigate the winner. Cosmetically that looks like a witchhunt. And from the democrats perspective, that would be a dumb move because any chance they have at swinging votes their way would go down the drain by riling up the Trump base more and neutral voters.

 

[Merge]

No one is deflecting, but you are really coming across as an unhinged partisan. First of all, did Trump meet with any Russians? We know Donald Jr. met with these folks and thus far there doesn't even seem to be a second meeting or follow-up. You may want to follow your partisan talking points, but I'll wait to see how this plays out.

You took the wait and see approach that there were meetings. You took the wait and see approach if Don knew who he was meeting with. You took the wait and see approach to see if any info was exchanged. We get it, you will not express any opinion other than calling the liberals on this board crazy for posting theirs. You even took a shot at me in this thread for "jumping to conclusions" because I said Don Jr would know who he was meeting with. Fine, wait and see. Why do you keep posting that you have no opinion?

 

[Merge]

I think we need to move forward with healthcare, tax reform, immigration, and other real issues.

What do you think is preventing congress from passing laws on healthcare tax reform and other real issues?

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

What do you think is preventing congress from passing laws on healthcare tax reform and other real issues?

Republicans, Democrats, and Special interest groups are not working to help the American people.

 

[knowknow456]

Republicans, Democrats, and Special interest groups are not working to help the American people.

I think Republicans are working to help a cross section of the American people
I think Democrats are working to help a cross section of the American people
I think Special interest groups are working to help a cross section of the American people.

Taken in the collective, they are working to help all of the people.

Healthcare is a classic example. Democrats and Republicans are working hard to improve healthcare but have radically divergent views on the best way of getting it done. Any individual view will depend on how much the improvement helps or hurts that individual.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

I think Republicans are working to help a cross section of the American people
I think Democrats are working to help a cross section of the American people
I think Special interest groups are working to help a cross section of the American people.

Taken in the collective, they are working to help all of the people.

Healthcare is a classic example. Democrats and Republicans are working hard to improve healthcare but have radically divergent views on the best way of getting it done. Any individual view will depend on how much the improvement helps or hurts that individual.

I'll rephrase it, they're not working TOGETHER to help the American people.

 

[knowknow456]

I'll rephrase it, they're not working TOGETHER to help the American people.

Bipartisanship is difficult to achieve and even harder to maintain. If you read this entire thread from start to finish, you will find little area of common ground among people who outside of politics share a common interest (Seton Hall Basketball).

 

[Merge]

I guess the question is what is the criteria for investigating? You can't just say we are going to investigate the winner. Cosmetically that looks like a witchhunt. And from the democrats perspective, that would be a dumb move because any chance they have at swinging votes their way would go down the drain by riling up the Trump base more and neutral voters.

The reason I personally am more concerned about Trump is that I do believe Russia likely has some leverage over him. I don't want anyone in power if a hostile foreign government is holding leverage over them personally. I am concerned that Trump has surrounded himself by people who Russia has been cultivating as Russian assets. I am concerned that the campaign denied any meetings with Russians when there appear to have been many.

That doesn't mean I think anyone else shouldn't be investigated. That means I want to make sure people who have power an authority over American citizens are not acting based on leverage that a foreign government has on them.

 

[SPK145]

I think they should continue investigating everyone.

I think DC should move forward using the principles of limited government, liberty, freedom, and personal responsibility for all.

 

[Merge]

Republicans, Democrats, and Special interest groups are not working to help the American people.

Right. Pretend the Russia investigation ended tomorrow and they found no wrong doing.
Do republicans and democrats now work together to get things done?

My point was, the Russia investigation is not preventing them from working on healthcare, taxes etc.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

The reason I personally am more concerned about Trump is that I do believe Russia likely has some leverage over him. I don't want anyone in power if a hostile foreign government is holding leverage over them personally. I am concerned that Trump has surrounded himself by people who Russia has been cultivating as Russian assets. I am concerned that the campaign denied any meetings with Russians when there appear to have been many.

That doesn't mean I think anyone else shouldn't be investigated. That means I want to make sure people who have power an authority over American citizens are not acting based on leverage that a foreign government has on them.

Everyone fears foreign interference or foreign leverage. So it is okay when anyone domestically has leverage over politicans??? Seriously drug companies are able to put out drugs with side effects that can kill you and the governement and politicians are okay with it because of the tax dollars. People are putting hormones and other artificial crap in your food that destroys your organs so you need those drugs that can potentially kill you. We worry about what others can possibly do to us while our own people are killing us.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Right. Pretend the Russia investigation ended tomorrow and they found no wrong doing.
Do republicans and democrats now work together to get things done?

My point was, the Russia investigation is not preventing them from working on healthcare, taxes etc.

If the investigation ends tomorrow, do we have a better healthcare system? no. Are they working together to end the hatred of police? no. Are they working together to unite the country not keep it divided everywhere you look? no. The investigation has nothing to do with it. The country is as divided as it has been in the last 100 years. These polticians are the people who were elected to lead us. Until they start leading this country back to unity, nothing matters.

 

[Merge]

Everyone fears foreign interference or foreign leverage. So it is okay when anyone domestically has leverage over politicans??? Seriously drug companies are able to put out drugs with side effects that can kill you and the governement and politicians are okay with it because of the tax dollars. People are putting hormones and other artificial crap in your food that destroys your organs so you need those drugs that can potentially kill you. We worry about what others can possibly do to us while our own people are killing us.

Where did I imply any of that is ok?

I should ignore my concerns about X because Y exists? I can't be concerned about both?

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Where did I imply any of that is ok?

I should ignore my concerns about X because Y exists? I can't be concerned about both?

Where have you expressed your concerns about both? I guess I missed it. The truth is if you are that concerned, and want to end it, the only answer is to shut down the entire country and investigate everyone because the truth is a conservative number is 80% of our politicians are influenced by someone, foreign or domestic.

 

[Hall-line-forever]

I think they should continue investigating everyone.

I think DC should move forward using the principles of limited government, liberty, freedom, and personal responsibility for all.

Well said

 

[knowknow456]

Where have you expressed your concerns about both? I guess I missed it. The truth is if you are that concerned, and want to end it, the only answer is to shut down the entire country and investigate everyone because the truth is a conservative number is 80% of our politicians are influenced by someone, foreign or domestic.

This is unfair. Merge can and does speak competently about a number of issues. He does not have to express his world view in every post.

I don't agree we should shut down the entire country and investigate everyone. I also don't agree we should drop the investigation. Can we meet somewhere in the middle?

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

This is unfair. Merge can and does speak competently about a number of issues. He does not have to express his world view in every post.

I don't agree we should shut down the entire country and investigate everyone. I also don't agree we should drop the investigation. Can we meet somewhere in the middle?

If you want to take a hard stance and be fair, you would have to take a look at who is and who isn't working on behalf of lobbyists more than their constituents. Is there a middle ground of course, of course. The question is how do you determine that middle ground? How do you not piss off the people who gave our current president over 300 electoral votes, who feel everyone is going after him unfairly? I'm a fan of Trump and hope they go after him. I believe they will piss off so many people the democrats will lose in the mid term as well as the next few presidential elections. The middle of the country will not vote democrat for a long time.

 

[Merge]

Where have you expressed your concerns about both? I guess I missed it. .

Why would I be talking about nutrition in a thread about Trump Jr and Russia?

I am also concerned about healthcare, energy, the economy, taxes, guns, education, immigration, civil rights, foreign intervention, military spending, campaign finance, Space exploration, childhood vaccinations and many many more.

Feel free to post about any topic in its own thread and I am happy to discuss.

 

[knowknow456]

The question is how do you determine that middle ground?

You and I are going to determine the middle ground. I want to continue the investigation, but do not want to broaden the scope beyond the 2016 election.

If you feel it is important to open a separate investigation regarding potential issues on the Ukraine/DNC issue, I will agree.

 

[Pirata]

You took the wait and see approach that there were meetings. You took the wait and see approach if Don knew who he was meeting with. You took the wait and see approach to see if any info was exchanged. We get it, you will not express any opinion other than calling the liberals on this board crazy for posting theirs. You even took a shot at me in this thread for "jumping to conclusions" because I said Don Jr would know who he was meeting with. Fine, wait and see. Why do you keep posting that you have no opinion?

Maybe because you and your buddy Cern state conclusions based on opinion and speculation. Quite frankly, it is annoying to read.

You have stated several times that Jr is guilty of doing something illegal when thus far the legal scholars are saying the opposite. No charges have bee brought and there is nothing as of yet to suggest that they will. Unless more evidence surfaces he is only guilty of with lying or having a bad memory neither of which are illegal.

You lecture us on "being concerned for the fate of the country" yet you ignore due process, a fundamental in the Constitution.

 

[HALL85]

Where did I imply any of that is ok?

I should ignore my concerns about X because Y exists? I can't be concerned about both?

You can be concerned about both, but which should get 90% of the energy and attention? 90% of CNN's attention is focused on Russia; it looks like a similar number for many on this thread. I would prefer 90% be focused on healthcare, tax reform, security, etc. That's where my energy is directed. Can you say the same?

 

[HALL85]

Bipartisanship is difficult to achieve and even harder to maintain. If you read this entire thread from start to finish, you will find little area of common ground among people who outside of politics share a common interest (Seton Hall Basketball).

So if something is hard we shouldn't do it?

 

[HALL85]

You took the wait and see approach that there were meetings. You took the wait and see approach if Don knew who he was meeting with. You took the wait and see approach to see if any info was exchanged. We get it, you will not express any opinion other than calling the liberals on this board crazy for posting theirs. You even took a shot at me in this thread for "jumping to conclusions" because I said Don Jr would know who he was meeting with. Fine, wait and see. Why do you keep posting that you have no opinion?

My opinion if you've been paying attention is that the meeting looks bad but there is nothing that has risen to a criminal charge. Or would you prefer I jump to a conclusion and declare him innocent or guilty?

 

[Merge]

Maybe because you and your buddy Cern state conclusions based on opinion and speculation. Quite frankly, it is annoying to read.

You have stated several times that Jr is guilty of doing something illegal when thus far the legal scholars are saying the opposite. No charges have bee brought and there is nothing as of yet to suggest that they will. Unless more evidence surfaces he is only guilty of with lying or having a bad memory neither of which are illegal.

You lecture us on "being concerned for the fate of the country" yet you ignore due process, a fundamental in the Constitution.

So opinions and speculation are off limits here?

I stated that my opinion was that Don Jr knew who he was meeting with. You disagreed with my opinion and called it a "nothing burger" because Don said he didn't know who he was meeting with. Turned out he was lying, and I was correct.

My opinion is that Trump Jr broke a federal election law, based on the facts we know and the text of the law.

Here is the law.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/11/110.20



"No person shall knowingly solicit, accept, or receive from a foreign national any contribution or donation prohibited by paragraphs (b) through (d) of this section."

"(b)Contributions and donations by foreign nationals in connection with elections. A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or a donation of money or other thing of value, or expressly or impliedly promise to make a contribution or a donation, in connection with any Federal, State, or local election."

If you can explain how Trump Jr knowingly accepted opposition research from someone he believed to be connected to the Russian government does not violate the law above... please do.

 

[Merge]

You can be concerned about both, but which should get 90% of the energy and attention? 90% of CNN's attention is focused on Russia; it looks like a similar number for many on this thread. I would prefer 90% be focused on healthcare, tax reform, security, etc. That's where my energy is directed. Can you say the same?

Yes. As far as political issues go, the majority of my time on this board has been discussing healthcare.

 

[cernjSHU]

Maybe because you and your buddy Cern state conclusions based on opinion and speculation. Quite frankly, it is annoying to read.

You have stated several times that Jr is guilty of doing something illegal when thus far the legal scholars are saying the opposite. No charges have bee brought and there is nothing as of yet to suggest that they will. Unless more evidence surfaces he is only guilty of with lying or having a bad memory neither of which are illegal.

You lecture us on "being concerned for the fate of the country" yet you ignore due process, a fundamental in the Constitution.

Logical conclusions drawn from the evidence. I'm not turning a blind eye to it. When it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and quacks like a ducks, it's a duck.

 

[HALL85]

Logical conclusions drawn from the evidence. I'm not turning a blind eye to it. When it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and quacks like a ducks, it's a duck.

Yet when the same logical conclusions were raised about HRC, you turned a blind ducky partisan eye...

 

[shu09]

There were no funds exchanged, you said so yourself. I don't see how a crime was committed.

 

[shu09]

Logical conclusions drawn from the evidence. I'm not turning a blind eye to it. When it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and quacks like a ducks, it's a duck.

There is no evidence. You are jumping to conclusions based on opinions and circumstantial connections.

 

[Merge]

There were no funds exchanged, you said so yourself. I don't see how a crime was committed.

" money or other thing of value"

I'm not sure why you keep implying it has to be funds? That is not what the law says.

 

[shu09]

" money or other thing of value"

I'm not sure why you keep implying it has to be funds? That is not what the law says.

Because I read the law that you linked. Every single thing in it is about money of some sort.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

" money or other thing of value"

I'm not sure why you keep implying it has to be funds? That is not what the law says.

I have to ask who created this law. It allows you to attend a meeting if there is nothing of value exchanged. So if Trump, Jr got nothing of value from the meeting and Hillary got nothing of value from the Ukraines, I guess both are clean.

 

[HALL85]

" money or other thing of value"

I'm not sure why you keep implying it has to be funds? That is not what the law says.

So what was exchanged for what? IF information was provided, what did Donald Jr. provide in return for that information? I'm sure you have an "opinion" on that but don't pull a muscle jumping to another conclusion.

 

[knowknow456]

So if something is hard we shouldn't do it?

Of course we should work towards bipartisanship! Twice today I reached out to SHUHoopsFan to see if we could agree on a path forward. I hope we can.

 

[Merge]

So what was exchanged for what? IF information was provided, what did Donald Jr. provide in return for that information? I'm sure you have an "opinion" on that but don't pull a muscle jumping to another conclusion.

I'm not sure why you think Don Jr needs to provide anything in return to be violating the law?

 

[Merge]

Thankfully you can now stop questioning why I think it is illegal. This lays out what I was saying better than I can do.

http://www.commoncause.org/policy-a...doj-fec-complaints-filed-against-trump-jr.pdf

 

[HALL85]

I'm not sure why you think Don Jr needs to provide anything in return to be violating the law?

Ok Mr. Naïve, so the Russians would provide information of value without wanting anything in return???

 

[Pirata]

So opinions and speculation are off limits here?

There you go again.

No one said opinions and speculation are off limits. Those are your words.

You guys never qualify your statements as opinions. You state things as hard facts. Go back and read your posts.