Seems Like Donald Trump Jr admitted to looking for Russian Info

[Merge]

On this note, here is a quote from the president this week:

No issues with his quote.
I do just want to briefly explain my concern with Russia and Trump though.

My concern is that Putin wanted Trump in power for a reason and may have have leverage over him.

Would it be bad to get along with Russia? Absolutely not, but again... Russia does not want to get along with us. If you watched the hearings with the leaders of our intelligence community, I'm not sure how you could think "getting along" with them is a good idea.

I don't really think they would have gotten involved because they prefer the policies of one candidate. I think they got involved because they felt they could manipulate one of the candidates. Maybe I'm crazy but that does concern me.

 

[shu09]

No issues with his quote.
I do just want to briefly explain my concern with Russia and Trump though.

My concern is that Putin wanted Trump in power for a reason and may have have leverage over him.

Would it be bad to get along with Russia? Absolutely not, but again... Russia does not want to get along with us. If you watched the hearings with the leaders of our intelligence community, I'm not sure how you could think "getting along" with them is a good idea.

I don't really think they would have gotten involved because they prefer the policies of one candidate. I think they got involved because they felt they could manipulate one of the candidates. Maybe I'm crazy but that does concern me.

I think it's simple why Putin got involved: His personal disdain for Hillary Clinton and her policy towards Russia. She would have continued the hard line Obama policy, which I disagreed with. With a Republican in office, Putin would at least have a chance at smoothing over relations.

I think Putin would have gotten involved no matter who the GOP nominee was. He absolutely despises Clinton.

 

[Merge]

I think it's simple why Putin got involved: His personal disdain for Hillary Clinton and her policy towards Russia. She would have continued the hard line Obama policy, which I disagreed with. With a Republican in office, Putin would at least have a chance at smoothing over relations.

I think Putin would have gotten involved no matter who the GOP nominee was. He absolutely despises Clinton.

Clinton Watts testified that Russia also went after Rubio though... my opinion and concern is that they wanted Trump because they could control him.

 

[HALL85]

Clinton Watts testified that Russia also went after Rubio though... my opinion and concern is that they wanted Trump because they could control him.

Can you provide one example in Trump's life where he has been manipulated or controlled?

 

[Merge]

Can you provide one example in Trump's life where he has been manipulated or controlled?

At a minimum, someone convinced Trump that hiring Carter Page, Paul Manafort and Mike Flynn was a good idea... and this was after Trump was warned that Flynn could be compromised.

None of those hires were a good idea. Who convinced him to make those hires? Especially Flynn despite the warnings?

 

[cernjSHU]

Really...why?

If you do not know who is friend or foe, how are you to accomplish your priorities? We have more favored trade agreements with your friends than enemies, correct? With enemies you have to keep them at arms length and never ever trust them. With allies, we go it together with joint ventures like NATO. Those NATO nations came together and were with us during the attack of Afghanistan after 9/11.

Russia's interest is always to weaken the US for the past 100 years except for the Boris Yeltsin years. Putin sees the US as an enemy to harm and weaken us. If you do not recognize who your enemies are and treat them as such, then you will harm US interests around the world and in this country.

 

[SPK145]

With enemies you have to keep them at arms length and never ever trust them.

Like those ridiculous agreements with Iran and North Korea? What president would be stupid enough to sign those?

 

[shu09]

Like those ridiculous agreements with Iran and North Korea? What president would be stupid enough to sign those?

Ouch!

 

[cernjSHU]

Like those ridiculous agreements with Iran and North Korea? What president would be stupid enough to sign those?

The agreements with North Korea was an agreement with an untrustworthy regime and they did exactly that. They can never be trusted. However, there is no leverage against North Korea that we have and that includes the present situation. Without China, we are powerless except for a very dangerous military actions.

With Iran, I don't know what to think of that agreement. Time will tell if it was a bad agreement. I tend to think it probably was a bad agreement but we shall see.

However, these are agreements in the hope to forward US interests. Whether they are bad deals or not, is not the same as purposely agreeing with adversarial nation like Russia to collude to affect our election and to hack into our computer systems. This is wildly different.

 

[SPK145]

Whether they are bad deals or not, is not the same as purposely agreeing with adversarial nation like Russia to collude to affect our election and to hack into our computer systems. This is wildly different.

If and when there's any evidence of collusion, you'd be correct, but there isn't any yet, just you and your leftist conspiracy theories parroted by the media and its psychophants. And Trump Sr. will claim plausible deniability, which we know is always B/S.

 

[Hall-line-forever]

That's because Democrats have nothing left at all.

Party of Stalin

 

[cernjSHU]

If and when there's any evidence of collusion, you'd be correct, but there isn't any yet, just you and your leftist conspiracy theories parroted by the media and its psychophants. And Trump Sr. will claim plausible deniability, which we know is always B/S.

If and when there is any evidence?? That email from Don Jr tells it all. They were willing to conspire with the Russian Government for information. That's proof. And it is the tip of the iceburg.

No conspiracy theories. That's evidence even according to some conservativesie Kraumhammer and even Gowdy is disturbed. You turn a blind eye to what is happening.

 

[HALL85]

At a minimum, someone convinced Trump that hiring Carter Page, Paul Manafort and Mike Flynn was a good idea... and this was after Trump was warned that Flynn could be compromised.

None of those hires were a good idea. Who convinced him to make those hires? Especially Flynn despite the warnings?

You have proof of this? Who exactly convinced Trump to hire these people?

 

[HALL85]

If you do not know who is friend or foe, how are you to accomplish your priorities? We have more favored trade agreements with your friends than enemies, correct? With enemies you have to keep them at arms length and never ever trust them. With allies, we go it together with joint ventures like NATO. Those NATO nations came together and were with us during the attack of Afghanistan after 9/11.

Russia's interest is always to weaken the US for the past 100 years except for the Boris Yeltsin years. Putin sees the US as an enemy to harm and weaken us. If you do not recognize who your enemies are and treat them as such, then you will harm US interests around the world and in this country.

Who's being naïve? You think all of our allies have our best interests in mind? The world is not as black-and-white as you're trying to paint it. Every country wants certain things including us. There's more truth to the quote "Keep your friends close but keep your enemies closer". Or you can spend your time with late-night TV hosts.

 

[cernjSHU]

That's because Democrats have nothing left at all.

Party of Stalin

That's a pretty ironic statement to say since Trump is the Russian puppet.

 

[Hall-line-forever]

Ok, then.

Party of Mao, Che, Chavez, Ortega

 

[cernjSHU]

Who's being naïve? You think all of our allies have our best interests in mind? The world is not as black-and-white as you're trying to paint it. Every country wants certain things including us. There's more truth to the quote "Keep your friends close but keep your enemies closer". Or you can spend your time with late-night TV hosts.

So you are going with The Godfather theory on foreign policy. Hmm. You need to stop watching movies for your political commentary. I'm sure Michael Corlleone is Laughing at this.

 

[SPK145]

If and when there is any evidence?? That email from Don Jr tells it all. They were willing to conspire with the Russian Government for information. That's proof. And it is the tip of the iceburg.

I don't see collusion or conspiracy based on merely looking to possibly receive info. Not ethical and possibly illegal but no proof of a overt campaign to collude or conspire, wouldn't that require an explicit action on both parties to work together to compile info?

 

[HALL85]

So you are going with The Godfather theory on foreign policy. Hmm. You need to stop watching movies for your political commentary. I'm sure Michael Corlleone is Laughing at this.

Sure, let's go with your theory and pass out black and white hats so we can all know who are friends and enemies are. We'll play with our friends and ignore our enemies...That'll be nice and neat.....and naive.

 

[cernjSHU]

I don't see collusion or conspiracy based on merely looking to possibly receive info. Not ethical and possibly illegal but no proof of a overt campaign to collude or conspire, wouldn't that require an explicit action on both parties to work together to compile info?

That meeting is all that it takes. Conspiracies do not have to be completed. More importantly, you believe that the meeting is certainly unethical and possibly illegal and yet you still call this leftist conspiracy theories.

However, this certainly makes it more likely that they did work with each other in this election. Why so many Russian meetings, why hide it? The lies and coverup about these meetings tell you there is even more here.

 

[SPK145]

That meeting is all that it takes. Conspiracies do not have to be completed. More importantly, you believe that the meeting is certainly unethical and possibly illegal and yet you still call this leftist conspiracy theories.

The collusion piece, the working together part. So far nothing on that.

 

[cernjSHU]

Sure, let's go with your theory and pass out black and white hats so we can all know who are friends and enemies are. We'll play with our friends and ignore our enemies...That'll be nice and neat.....and naive.

Not a bad idea for you to keep from confusing our enemies and allies. I am sure our professionals in the State Department and Department of Defense won't need the visual aids.

 

[Hall-line-forever]

We will never know the deal until facts are all out on this. I will never watch MSM.

To the good folks on both sides of the argument, you bring great points.

 

[Merge]

You have proof of this? Who exactly convinced Trump to hire these people?

You think he pulled their name out of a hat? Someone told him to hire them.

That is the question. Who convinced Trump to hire them? Even after being told Flynn could be compromised?

 

[HALL85]

You think he pulled their name out of a hat? Someone told him to hire them.

That is the question. Who convinced Trump to hire them? Even after being told Flynn could be compromised?

You really sound silly with this "someone" stuff. Your opinion again; no facts

 

[Merge]

You really sound silly with this "someone" stuff. Your opinion again; no facts

I'd know if they were willing to say it in public. Page refused to say who brought him into the campaign in his interview with stephanopolous.

Yeah nothing to see there, he only hired foreign lobbyists into his campaign and was warned one of them could be compromised.

 

[Merge]

I don't see collusion or conspiracy based on merely looking to possibly receive info. Not ethical and possibly illegal but no proof of a overt campaign to collude or conspire, wouldn't that require an explicit action on both parties to work together to compile info?

Just to be clear, are you saying it's legal to hear that the Russian government has intelligence against a political opponent and take a meeting to accept that intelligence?

 

[SPK145]

Just to be clear, are you saying it's legal to hear that the Russian government has intelligence against a political opponent and take a meeting to accept that intelligence?

No, note the "possibly illegal" part. Only "possibly" as there was nothing to indicate that Jr. knew this attorney was part of the Russian government. But that has nothing to do with collusion.

 

[Merge]

No, note the "possibly illegal" part. Only "possibly" as there was nothing to indicate that Jr. knew this attorney was part of the Russian government. But that has nothing to do with collusion.

I think you should read the email.

"This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump "

btw the ex Russian military lobbyist that was there said that the documents the attorney provided were left with Don Jr.

So those are the facts that we know.
Was that legal?

 

[SPK145]

I think you should read the email.

"This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump "

btw the ex Russian military lobbyist that was there said that the documents the attorney provided were left with Don Jr.

So those are the facts that we know.
Was that legal?

We just take as fact everything in an email and what was said?

What else was in the AP story on this ex-Russian military lobbyist?

<<< Akhmetshin has been reported to have ties to Russian intelligence, a characterization he dismisses as a “smear campaign.” >>>

<<< The Russian government has denied any involvement or knowledge of the June 2016 meeting. Asked Friday about Akhmetshin, Russian President Vladimir Putin’s spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, told reporters: “We don’t know anything about this person.” >>>

OK, fact, he was not connected to Russia.

<<< In a statement Sunday, Trump Jr. said the attorney had said she had information that people tied to Russia were funding the Democratic National Committee and supporting Clinton, a description that Akhmetshin backed up in his interview with the AP. >>>

<<< Veselnitskaya brought with her a plastic folder with printed-out documents that detailed what she believed was the flow of illicit funds to the Democrats, Akhmetshin said. Veselnitskaya presented the contents of the documents to the Trump associates and suggested that making the information public could help the campaign, he said. >>>

“This could be a good issue to expose how the DNC is accepting bad money,” Akhmetshin recalled her saying.

OK, fact, Russia was colluding with the DNC to defeat Trump.

<<< Akhmetshin said he does not know if Veselnitskaya’s documents were provided by the Russian government. He said he thinks she left the materials with the Trump associates. It was unclear if she handed the documents to anyone in the room or simply left them behind, he said. >>>

OK, fact, no idea what happened to those documents or where they came from.

<<< Veselnitskaya has denied having any ties to the Russian government. >>>

OK, fact, the attorney was not connected to the Russian government. And why was she let in to the U.S. after having been denied a visa a short time prior to this meeting and who let her in?

<<< Akhmetshin, who spoke to the AP while on vacation in France where he said he has been surfing, said the meeting was “not substantive” and he “actually expected more serious” discussion.

“I never thought this would be such a big deal, to be honest,” he said. >>>

OK, fact, a nothing-burger.

https://apnews.com/dceed1008d8f45af...n-lobbyist-says-he-was-in-Trump-son's-meeting

 

[cernjSHU]

Can people stop using the term nothing burger?

If you think that email reveals nothing, you would have probably said on August 30, 1939, you know just because these German tanks are lined up near the border, the Germans haven't said they were going to invade Poland so unless you see them actually invade, its a nothing burger.

 

[Merge]

@SPK145 you're deflecting.

Again, ignire literally everything else for a moment. The email stated Don Jr was TOLD the information is coming from the Russian government.

Is it legal to attend that meeting and get the information?

Yes or No?

 

[SPK145]

@SPK145 you're deflecting.

Again, ignire literally everything else for a moment. The email stated Don Jr was TOLD the information is coming from the Russian government.

Is it legal to attend that meeting and get the information?

Yes or No?

Maybe, maybe not. Some say no it wasn't.

If the info was about the DNC colluding with Russia, would that still be illegal??

 

[Merge]

Maybe, maybe not. Some say no it wasn't.

If the info was about the DNC colluding with Russia, would that still be illegal??

I'll walk you through it.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/52/30121


(a)shall be unlawful for—

(2)
a person to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution or donation described in subparagraph (A) or (B) of paragraph (1) from a foreign national.

It's illegal to accept "anything of value" from a foreign national related to the election.

If you're argument is that opposition research is not something of value, that is a REALLY poor argument.

Now please explain how it's not illegal?

 

[Merge]

And yes dems would be just as guilty.
Lock em all up if they do something illegal.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

And yes dems would be just as guilty.
Lock em all up if they do something illegal.

I guess along with looking into Trump, Jr, they will have to look into the Ukraine issue. They may also have to looking into issue with uranium and Russia. Or we can stop wasting taxpayer money on both parties being shady and try to fix the problems. Healthcare, tax reform, the amount of money the government wastes, the national debt, etc, etc, etc. Let's face facts both political parties are shady. As long as we keep looking back we cannot focus on the important things we need to take care of ahead of us.

Our political system is so F'ed up that if Kid Rock chooses to run for senator he will win. Not because he may be the best candidate but because people have no faith in our professional politicians and they might as well give someone else a shot. Our politicians need to make a change and it starts with working together, not trying to tarnish the other side.

 

[SPK145]

And yes dems would be just as guilty.
Lock em all up if they do something illegal.

They'll be a lot in prison, can't just pick and choose.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

They'll be a lot in prison, can't just pick and choose.

Are there prison stocks I can invest in?

 

[Merge]

They'll be a lot in prison, can't just pick and choose.

I'll take that as you can't explain how Don Jr is not guilty of violating the law?

 

[Merge]

Are there prison stocks I can invest in?

Should have asked that question the day Trump won. You would have done very well.